Micro 1000: Names on the List v1.01 [game over!]

[Datisi]

vote count 3.04

with 8 votes in play, it takes 5 to make a decision. day 3 ends in (expired on 2021-04-09 17:05:00).

execution

Not_Mafia [3]:

Michael Scott, Mad Hatters Tea Party, Dunnstral

Mad Hatters Tea Party [2]:

Not_Mafia, bugspray

Michael Scott [1]:

Rathe

not voting [2]:

Ythan, The Bulge

game state

parity:

~ mafia members alive: three (3)
~

doom counter

: one (1)
~ town will be endgamed once they are brought down to:

three (3)

members.

previously published lists:

~ ythan, dunnstral, not_mafia, the bulge, bugspray ~ 3 town, 2 mafia

mod notes

~ 24 hour posting period will be resetting at 6:00pm CET
~ not_mafia has used 6/20 reserve posts.

[Michael Scott]

i dont know about michael scott n the notmafia is scum read
i dont know of a way to prove it
i probably wouldnt vote with michael scott

VOTE: mad hatter

maybe i am wrong about u mad hatter

what if not mafia is town mad hatter but u r following michael scott

@Ythan, The Bulge, Bugspray:
It's quite clear Rathe is trying to shift off Not_Mafia. Tries to cast doubt on us, votes Mad Hatter, again appeals to Mad Hatter when they continue to sheep our N_M read, and now tries to shift the scumread to us.

-Jimothy

[Rathe]

It's quite clear Rathe is trying to shift off Not_Mafia.

y i wasnt voting not mafia

[Mad Hatters Tea Party]

u backed urself to a corner with 453
u gave a good point about mad hatter not being mafia
i agree cuz it makes sense but
then u had to scumread me
but u r wrong cuz i am not mafia
but i think u know that

Perhaps I may encourage you to pursue Michaels ISO, and see if you are able to compose a short list of contradictions or such that may indicate an anti-town agenda, intent, or assosiation?

[The Bulge]

I realized while typing up a post that we can technically afford a miselim today, although glancing back I'm not sure how many people were actually confused about it. just in case anyone else isn't clear,

this is not lylo

. publishing the list did not [technically] affect our Doom Counter because it is capped at 3 and there are 3 scum still alive.

[Mad Hatters Tea Party]

Yes that was my mistake, my apologies. I am less concerned about being dismissed at this point, as it will suitably turn the attention to Rathe.

[The Bulge]

yikes that is a mess of a post. not sure yet what it means for Mike's alignment since I still feel so strong about Hatter, but I know I don't want to vote Rathe today.

@Bulge, I don’t think scum!Hatter comes out of the gate today and starts by pushing for an off-list mis-elimination, when they themselves are off the list (e.g. 353, 355, etc.).

very flawed logic. besides the obvious Wifom potential here, scum!Hatter has 2 partners on the list, so this objectively means absolutely nothing, since no matter what in this scenario scum is forced to advocate for an elim within a pool containing scum.

If Hatter is scum and there is an off-list mis-elimination today, then that just puts them in a difficult 1vs1 tomorrow. Your argument wrt to Hatter’s push on Rathe is that they are taking advantage of the fact that Rathe is new, and that scum!Hatter would be inclined to put themselves off-list with Rathe to setup a 1vs1.

few things. first of all I think it would be stupid to put all 3 scum on the first list. second, any time we miseliminate, by nature of the game of mafia, the pool narrows. third, obviously the ideal Daytime outcome for scum in any game is to achieve a miselimation. So with all this considered, assuming scum is highly unlikely to give any spread besides 2 on/1 off with the first list, even their ideal scenario (a miselim, whether on or off the list) narrows that respective pool down to a 50% chance, higher (66% or 100%) ftpov of the remaining townies in that pool. Scum is in a very tough spot tomorrow regardless of what happens today, since there is a higher scum:town ratio than usual, and because we have more information (from the lists) than the average town in a vanilla setup.


this next whole paragraph is incredibly disconnected from reality.

I could see why scum!Hatter might target Rathe specifically for a 1vs1, but I don’t think they would push for that 1vs1 to take place today.

ok, and they're not, so? They suggested we elim off the list but haven't pushed one way or the other very significantly. Pay attention to Hatter's posting today. they've been so on the fence between wanting N_M and wanting Rathe today that I thought they were a squirrel.

The better move, given how much heat Hatter has taken, would be to instead push for an on-list mis-elimination today, and then try to push Rathe as the final mis-elimination. Yes, Hatter did join us on Not_Mafia, but they also have put themselves in a position where it would be difficult for them to back off of their Rathe scumread if Rathe did become wagoned given their stances. If Auro and I started a wagon against Rathe and that wagon gained traction, then scum!Hatter is forced to join that wagon and then deal with the fallout (i.e., a 1vs1 against us) after Rathe flips town. If Hatter is scum, then I think they would want to avoid that scenario.

if we miselim on the list today, why in the fuck would we try to hit 1/3 instead of 2/4 tomorrow?? like you said, they can't just drop the Rathe push without looking bad, but Hatter has certainly not done anything to personally ensure today's elim goes one way or the other. they have admitted themselves they expect or have at some point expected to be today's elim. My theory is that they don't want to stir the pot and risk giving us any additional associative tells to work with, since we already have the foundations laid for gathering that information in the form of our lists (ie, we have several pairings that cannot possibly be partnered together, far more information than the average town at this point in the game), and since the outcome of today in the grand scheme of things does not majorly affect scum's shot at winning, imo, because no outcome leaves them in a particularly comfortable spot. I think the best play for scum today is simply to ensure the town doesn't gain any traction and start collaborating/finding each other and being generally more productive. there is a disproportionate number of scum in this setup, odds are high that we hit them throwing darts blindfolded, so ideally for them the game stays this slow, and the town continues to throw suspicions around left and right and jumping from wagon to wagon to wagon, so if we do manage to get some kind of useful flip, there isn't anything useful with which to cross-reference it.

What I would expect from scum!Hatter with an off-list group of {us, Rathe, Hatter} is to not fully commit to wanting to push either of Rathe or us. They might claim to strongly scumread Rathe, but they would feign some suspicion of our slot to justify wanting to eliminate from the on-list group. The fact that Hatter has taken such a hardline stance on Rathe being scum is part of the reason why I think town!Hatter and scum!Rathe is much more likely than the other way around.

disagree. coming into today suspicious of both other players in Hatter's pool while still advocating to vote within the other pool would look incredibly scummy on the surface. Scum also isn't going to necessarily keep every single door open at all times. that's a very scummy and very risky way to present oneself in this game, so if they specifically chose Rathe as their target (which I explained in my previous post, vis-a-vis their rapport and Rathe's newb status) I see no need to include you as an out as well, if they didn't think it likely you'd be strung up today.

I also still don’t buy that town!Rathe thought the scumteam was Hatter/us/Bugspray on day one but hammered Moz anyways because he thought it was pointless to try and push someone that he scumread.)

however I will take a look at this later.

[The Bulge]

Yes that was my mistake, my apologies. I am less concerned about being dismissed at this point, as it will suitably turn the attention to Rathe.

ok so if we did Rathe today and he flipped green, what would you suggest we do?

[Mad Hatters Tea Party]

Yes that was my mistake, my apologies. I am less concerned about being dismissed at this point, as it will suitably turn the attention to Rathe.

ok so if we did Rathe today and he flipped green, what would you suggest we do?

You immediately look at myself and Michael. Which come tomorrow will not be an issue as we will be confirmed by the red flip of Rathe.

VOTE: Rathe

Not_Mafia is our next elimination.

[The Bulge]

yea lmao can't say I expected that to work haha :)

what if not mafia is town mad hatter but u r following michael scott

u backed urself to a corner with 453
u gave a good point about mad hatter not being mafia
i agree cuz it makes sense but
then u had to scumread me
but u r wrong cuz i am not mafia
but i think u know that

i dont know if notmafia is town n u r trying to kill a innocent
or if notmafia is mafia n u want the townpoints
but i am rly ok with my vote
hatter is town i am town u r mafia

hmmmmmmm aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh fuck this is concerning me now too

I am feeling far more jumbled in my head now than I was before today.

[The Bulge]

I would like for both Hatter and Mike to please respond as in-depth as is appropriate to my 481

[Not_Mafia]

Yes that was my mistake, my apologies. I am less concerned about being dismissed at this point, as it will suitably turn the attention to Rathe.

ok so if we did Rathe today and he flipped green, what would you suggest we do?

You immediately look at myself and Michael. Which come tomorrow will not be an issue as we will be confirmed by the red flip of Rathe.

VOTE: Rathe

Not_Mafia is our next elimination.

Not after you flip scum

[Dunnstral]

hmmmmmmm aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh fuck this is concerning me now too

I am feeling far more jumbled in my head now than I was before today.

Well we don't

have

to elim in the pool of 3 today

[The Bulge]

I think it would be best to. our best case scenario then gives us 2 conftowns. what's your suggestion?

In my mind this game is revolving around whether Mad Hatter is scum or not right now

My thoughts are that there are some slots I have some suspicions on and most of them seem to want hatter dead

VOTE: Not_Mafia

can you elaborate on what specific connections you'd make with a hatter flip?

[Mad Hatters Tea Party]

I would like for both Hatter and Mike to please respond as in-depth as is appropriate to my 481

I don't recall seeing anything in there that required answering, but I do believe that Hare just unwrapped a fresh Battenburg cake that Chesh brought along.

Attempting to find a colour that works across all themes is a pain, so I will be trying this for my inline responses and commenary.

yikes that is a mess of a post. not sure yet what it means for Mike's alignment since I still feel so strong about Hatter, but I know I don't want to vote Rathe today.

Your conviction to your reads and mild implication that you may be willing to reconsider certainly shows some town logic.

@Bulge, I don’t think scum!Hatter comes out of the gate today and starts by pushing for an off-list mis-elimination, when they themselves are off the list (e.g. 353, 355, etc.).

very flawed logic. besides the obvious Wifom potential here, scum!Hatter has 2 partners on the list, so this objectively means absolutely nothing, since no matter what in this scenario scum is forced to advocate for an elim within a pool containing scum.

I must remember that there is no nightkills when I type out these verbose paragraphs... Elminating me places Michael and Rathe at 50/50. Bugspray, yourself and Not_mafia have sufficient connections and associatives established there - as well as anti-associatives to guide future revocation of party invitations.

If Hatter is scum and there is an off-list mis-elimination today, then that just puts them in a difficult 1vs1 tomorrow. Your argument wrt to Hatter’s push on Rathe is that they are taking advantage of the fact that Rathe is new, and that scum!Hatter would be inclined to put themselves off-list with Rathe to setup a 1vs1.

few things. first of all I think it would be stupid to put all 3 scum on the first list. second, any time we miseliminate, by nature of the game of mafia, the pool narrows. third, obviously the ideal Daytime outcome for scum in any game is to achieve a miselimation. So with all this considered, assuming scum is highly unlikely to give any spread besides 2 on/1 off with the first list, even their ideal scenario (a miselim, whether on or off the list) narrows that respective pool down to a 50% chance, higher (66% or 100%) ftpov of the remaining townies in that pool. Scum is in a very tough spot tomorrow regardless of what happens today, since there is a higher scum:town ratio than usual, and because we have more information (from the lists) than the average town in a vanilla setup.

I do not believe Rathe is new. This is Rathes second game with myself, and the former game was just as mechanically convoluted as this one, if for other reasons. I attempted to guide Rathe to speak more in our previous game, as did Raya, and Rathe took it quite well but remained rather silent still. I suspect Rathe is an alternate account playing the fool, and much more so than I. The list given is an optimal list from my perspective.

this next whole paragraph is incredibly disconnected from reality.

I could see why scum!Hatter might target Rathe specifically for a 1vs1, but I don’t think they would push for that 1vs1 to take place today.

ok, and they're not, so? They suggested we elim off the list but haven't pushed one way or the other very significantly. Pay attention to Hatter's posting today. they've been so on the fence between wanting N_M and wanting Rathe today that I thought they were a squirrel.

Last I checked, I was a "human" of some description. I much prefer being a Hatter, mind. I confess I am on the fence about either elimination, because I believe both are scum, and therefore I am happy with either being eliminated. Rathe would be better, but I am unsure of the Michaels flexibility. I can assure you my vote will not move today unless some quite exceptional circumstance demands it.

The better move, given how much heat Hatter has taken, would be to instead push for an on-list mis-elimination today, and then try to push Rathe as the final mis-elimination. Yes, Hatter did join us on Not_Mafia, but they also have put themselves in a position where it would be difficult for them to back off of their Rathe scumread if Rathe did become wagoned given their stances. If Auro and I started a wagon against Rathe and that wagon gained traction, then scum!Hatter is forced to join that wagon and then deal with the fallout (i.e., a 1vs1 against us) after Rathe flips town. If Hatter is scum, then I think they would want to avoid that scenario.

if we miselim on the list today, why in the fuck would we try to hit 1/3 instead of 2/4 tomorrow?? like you said, they can't just drop the Rathe push without looking bad, but Hatter has certainly not done anything to personally ensure today's elim goes one way or the other. they have admitted themselves they expect or have at some point expected to be today's elim. My theory is that they don't want to stir the pot and risk giving us any additional associative tells to work with, since we already have the foundations laid for gathering that information in the form of our lists (ie, we have several pairings that cannot possibly be partnered together, far more information than the average town at this point in the game), and since the outcome of today in the grand scheme of things does not majorly affect scum's shot at winning, imo, because no outcome leaves them in a particularly comfortable spot. I think the best play for scum today is simply to ensure the town doesn't gain any traction and start collaborating/finding each other and being generally more productive. there is a disproportionate number of scum in this setup, odds are high that we hit them throwing darts blindfolded, so ideally for them the game stays this slow, and the town continues to throw suspicions around left and right and jumping from wagon to wagon to wagon, so if we do manage to get some kind of useful flip, there isn't anything useful with which to cross-reference it.

I can assure you that when the time comes I draw my drafting notice to the Red Queens Court, I will remain a Hatter, and you will not detect me as the traitor I would be. I am glad you have drawn my attention to that post of mine again, upon my todo list goes to observe the votes upon the wagon that saw Moz sad walk home.

What I would expect from scum!Hatter with an off-list group of {us, Rathe, Hatter} is to not fully commit to wanting to push either of Rathe or us. They might claim to strongly scumread Rathe, but they would feign some suspicion of our slot to justify wanting to eliminate from the on-list group. The fact that Hatter has taken such a hardline stance on Rathe being scum is part of the reason why I think town!Hatter and scum!Rathe is much more likely than the other way around.

disagree. coming into today suspicious of both other players in Hatter's pool while still advocating to vote within the other pool would look incredibly scummy on the surface. Scum also isn't going to necessarily keep every single door open at all times. that's a very scummy and very risky way to present oneself in this game, so if they specifically chose Rathe as their target (which I explained in my previous post, vis-a-vis their rapport and Rathe's newb status) I see no need to include you as an out as well, if they didn't think it likely you'd be strung up today.

As I have said previously, I do not consider Rathe a newbie. There is nuance there that most newbies lack. In truth I don't quite see what you're getting at here. Do you mean that my fence sitting squirrelish behaviours are scummy, or that my locking and loading, as it were, on Rathe is scummy? I get the sense you may believe whichever is most convenient here.

I also still don’t buy that town!Rathe thought the scumteam was Hatter/us/Bugspray on day one but hammered Moz anyways because he thought it was pointless to try and push someone that he scumread.)

however I will take a look at this later.

[Not_Mafia]

Let's save Hatters the trouble of finding a font colour and just eliminate him

[Mad Hatters Tea Party]

Let's save Hatters the trouble of finding a font colour and just eliminate

them

I realise that was likely unintentional, but I have fixed your post for you.

Given there are typically 16,581,375 colours for me to choose from, I am quite sure I will find one which works me in the future.

I do find myself quite fond of this, for example.

as opposed to attempting to use a solarised face.

[Rathe]

Perhaps I may encourage you to pursue Michaels ISO, and see if you are able to compose a short list of contradictions or such that may indicate an anti-town agenda, intent, or assosiation?

it is process of elimination
u can read my other posts to see y im voting michael scott n not u anymore
i am town so i know one of u is mafia n maybe it isnt u
now that i know u r not partners i know i was wrong on the towns I had on the list

[Rathe]

ythan, dunnstral, not_mafia, the bulge, bugspray

ythan what do u think of michael, mad hatter, myself
dunnstral what do u think of michael, mad hatter, myself
notmafia what do u think of michael, mad hatter, myself
the bulge what do u think of michael, mad hatter, myself
bugspray what do u think of michael, mad hatter, myself

[Mad Hatters Tea Party]

Perhaps I may encourage you to pursue Michaels ISO, and see if you are able to compose a short list of contradictions or such that may indicate an anti-town agenda, intent, or assosiation?

it is process of elimination
u can read my other posts to see y im voting michael scott n not u anymore
i am town so i know one of u is mafia n maybe it isnt u
now that i know u r not partners i know i was wrong on the towns I had on the list

Then I would like you to towncase me, given your voting behaviour, this could be interesting.

I wish to see, with as much detail as you can muster, why you now believe that I am town.

[bugspray]

SET THEORY SIMULATOR

[Datisi]

prodding ythan.

[Not_Mafia]

It’s Easter weekend and the site was down yesterday, I don’t think prods right now are fair

[Datisi]

i will not replace anyone because of prods/inactivity until the holidays are over and the site is fully functional again.

[Dunnstral]

ythan, dunnstral, not_mafia, the bulge, bugspray

ythan what do u think of michael, mad hatter, myself
dunnstral what do u think of michael, mad hatter, myself
notmafia what do u think of michael, mad hatter, myself
the bulge what do u think of michael, mad hatter, myself
bugspray what do u think of michael, mad hatter, myself

I've mentioned I think scum is more likely to be within michael/hatter

I guess my vote means I was thinking michael more