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[Iconeum]

Datisi if you just baited scum with a meme tinfoil theory I will be seriously impressed

is it bad that i actually considered this for a

[Iconeum]

*moment*

[Iconeum]

i have a feeling the team is either some combination of {outworld, umlaut, llama, anya} or we just lose

{Umlaut, Llama, S_S}
Would that be so easy?

reading through these pages, i'm amazed Samantha isn't in any solve

[Iconeum]

I would return a positive to a TA last night

wait what

[Iconeum]

It should be pretty clear (sans modifiers which I really dont want to get into) what I am at this point.

It is not, at least not to me. So why not say it?

i'm slightly bothered by this?

i've seen you call out the mailman, and now this

why aren't you just openly pushing mass claim?

[Iconeum]

yes I can see anya as mafia

the problem is I can see you outworlder and umlaut as mafia as well

the only people I actually feel good about being town are koto and something_smart

this is bullshit yeah?

[Iconeum]

i guess
do we force the claim out or do we just slam the hammer down on anya? like i think that's the only q we have right now

this is probably correct

but forcing claim out equals massclaim i think, and i don't know if that is optimal or not

[Iconeum]

if massclaim is optimal, then we do that and start with the llama and work from there

if not, i think we just yeet

[Iconeum]

alpaca is hilarious

fine i'll tell you all one more time why i'm not wolf

if i was wolf i would:
-not hammer someone like that and make myself look really wolfy
-just claim traffic analyst if you ran me up yesterday

also dats you said something about the designer using wolf traffic analysts before but doesn't that become predictable if they do it over and over again? surely they'd mix it up and not just let players guess if the role is wolf or town because they always make it wolf

and it's town this time!!!!!

this can be countered by simple statements like

-if you were town you would have waited for a claim and not pretend to be scared of dying
-if you were town you would not have trolled like that at EoD 2

[Iconeum]

im feeling either massclaim

or yeet anya

[Iconeum]

anya's day 1 vote on Rathe was ugly
anya's EoD2 was disgusting and doesn't match with anything she's saying

it looks like her role is probably real to some extent, but with what i can see in this setup it's just super likely to be a scum counter to town power

[Iconeum]

i've had games where i was capable of seeing through town just playing bad, making bad gambits, but just *felt* it was town because ?? gut and all

i'm not having that feeling here with anya

[Iconeum]

logically speaking, probably?

but gamestate wise, pending who's town, i can see a kill in someone like (Ico/Dats/SS) or something

[Iconeum]

if we yeet anya and she is scum, llama is probably dead yeah

[Iconeum]

if we yeet anya and she is town… wifom comes into play i think?

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not yeeting anya today means we gotta settle on town!anya tho

and i don't see that happening but i'll give the ISO a reread

[Iconeum]

why are we randomly voting for rathe again

infinity i agree improved and i wouldn't vote for them but llama still feels more like an alpaca and that deserves punishment

m

i think Rathe was probably town and i can't remember what made me vote for him and i'm disgusted at myself

something about 6 hours left and not ending the day in no justice, but i regret not being stubborn on voting alpaca

someone tell me how this is town

[Iconeum]

VOTE: Rathe

i got impatient

i can switch to bunny later if needed i'll be around

this one was supposed to be in the middle there

[Iconeum]

also notice that infinity statement btw

[Iconeum]

this day is harder then i thought it would be

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and what wifom are you talking about?

it doesn't even matter a ton

is anya town or scum is really all that matters

[Iconeum]

thinking about consequences pending what she flips is something the living players can figure out when it happens

[Iconeum]

you think we can go into something of an auto-mode if we massclaim?

can it narrow the field enough ?

[Iconeum]

6-3

llama's claim
*probably* a mailman of sorts

can't imagine there being much left out there
so no?

[Iconeum]

ngl i have no clue if massclaim is worth it today

but i don't see us yeeting outside of (anya) with or without so yeah

[Iconeum]

well

if anya is town then we will face 4-3 tomorrow which makes it a narrow field anyway and yields a 50/50 anyway lol

#alwayslookonthebrightsideiguessfml

[Iconeum]

anya probably doesn't flip town i think

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if we were sure about anya being scum, is massclaim optimal today or not?

[Iconeum]

lylo is a forbidden term

yelo is a lot better

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what he said

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unless there is any case to be made for town!anya i'm yeeting anya here

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but i don't see it

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forcing a claim out of *anyone* right now is likely equaling mass claim

so you can have it one way or the other please

[Iconeum]

why umlaut 'The Daughter' umlaut and SS over llama tho?

[Iconeum]

that goes for anyone i'd assume

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ok shotgun solve here goes

(anya/llama)
(outworlder/Samantha/umlaut)

1 scum in the top
remainder in the bottom

if this is wrong... yeah

[Iconeum]

i'm something of a

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i'm something of a mathematician myself but something doesn't feel right with your % there xd

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what makes you think anya v llama is exactly 50/50

[Iconeum]

here's another %

unless you make a solid towncase on anya, there is a 0% chance i'm not voting there

[Iconeum]

koto i wanna work with you here but i honestly don't see why umlaut is the best flip here?

[Iconeum]

very well

let's go full massclaim and see if we can't find any shenanigans and help us solve some more then

[Iconeum]

it's either that or just yeet anya, no middle ground imo

if massclaim, i don't know who starts
llama?

[Iconeum]

Since he is scum.
The reason why I am unsure with Anya is, that if we have vanilla messenger, Anya is a TI without CC.
And even if there was a CC, Anya's is actually pretty weak with the messenger/ rolestopper.

do you realize that post-massclaim and assuming no roleclaim shenanigans i'm still not yeeting umlaut today?

there's a few scenarios that might be a thing that could maybe potentially happen, but it's not like we're doing massclaim only to out llama's claim and maybe the mailman, to then just default into yeeting umlaut

that's just not happening, that's way too hectic

talk to me koto?

[Iconeum]

i even gave you a pagetop

ok, but i don't think we can make 1 or 2 claims happen without going into full massclaim as a result

[Iconeum]

Koto-san, what I assume is your solve in that bracket is suuuuuuper close to how i see this game and I think the same goes for Datisi.

If you agree, why not just yeet anya here?

[Iconeum]

only to stop scum from potentially having an easier fake claim in lylo?

the thing is, i don't think *any* claim is gonna seriously alter that bracket you just made...

[Iconeum]

shenanigans it is

okay then lol

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what is this game

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and why do i have to say that every game

[Iconeum]

i don't see how this isn't going into full massclaim at this point

[Iconeum]

i love me some spice

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do we dictate order?

I think we can work out a proper one, instead of popcorning

[Iconeum]

umlaut respond fruit thingy -> koto reply -> llama -> (umlaut/outworld) -> (umlaut/outworld) -> Samantha -> SS -> Datisi -> Koto -> Ico

???

[Iconeum]

pending what happens in the fruit thing, we can cut it short after koto reply i guess

[Iconeum]

not really gonna do much commenting on what may or may not happen

the train has left, in it for the ride now

let's see what happens

[Iconeum]

i am Almost down to actually seriously start calling for outworld's head instead of these two

reminder that datisi is mafia

you need to get your head out of your ass if you are town

there's town in my scumreads somewhere so if that's you, i suggest you start working with your townreads in order to sort this shit out

[Iconeum]

there is ofcourse the scenario where my Samantha scumread is just right and this is all pure shade

[Iconeum]

i was hoping for something to have actually happened wrt that fruit :s

[Iconeum]

ok here's the deal

i scumread anya beyond anything
llama's claim is very likely not changing anything about that

we flip anya
if that flips scum as expected, we can figure out llama's claim tomorrow if he ain't ded and is probably confirmed town anyways?

we yeet anya

yay or nay final call?

[Iconeum]

i can literally see outworlder posting on site...

it's a dirty way to see but come on...

[Iconeum]

where is he posting

in your scum pt? lol

yes you got us

good job

[Iconeum]

i swear to god i saw his name just a little while ago lol

[Iconeum]

i see that

but it was there…

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wtf

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ok guess i'm literally just insane

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ok let is move this game forward then

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VOTE: anya

[Iconeum]

fffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

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wait

the game isn't over right?

[Iconeum]

didn't we have 1 misflip?

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gyppppp help a brother out now is a good time

[Iconeum]

i can confirm nor deny any allegations of that magnitude at this time

an official statement may or may not be produced at a later time

[Iconeum]

datisi/koto/ss strongest townreads

llama town if anya flips wolf

don't give Samantha a pass, i really don't townread that slot
umlaut improved slightly, can be scummy town but can just be scum
yeet outworld

[Iconeum]

and happy solving where i'm wrong

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i don't even know

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memes cannot express my thoughts right now

it's that bad

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massive balls not killing me last night, ico, i'll give you that!!!

yeah

[Iconeum]

icoooooo what are you doing

literally questioning my existence in this game

like

literally

why am i alive

[Iconeum]

can you tell me datisi?

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i have a feeling you can tell me

[Iconeum]

massive balls not killing me last night, ico, i'll give you that!!!

yeah

"yeah"? "yeah"??????? the fuck does that even

icoooooo what are you doing

we can do this now or post-massclaim

[Iconeum]

llama -> (umlaut/outworld) -> (umlaut/outworld) -> Samantha -> Datisi -> Koto -> Ico

massclaim order

go

[Iconeum]

there is no way ever i'm in the middle of the pack, and also i'm going dead last

period

[Iconeum]

i thought i was for sure gonna be the one to go after luca bc you'd need us both dead

oh i'm your scumread now

very convenient

[Iconeum]

i don't even see the angle you try to work here datisi

like
if i'm scum you died 100000000000000% of the time

bad argument? probably

but that doesn't mean it ain't true and you know that

[Iconeum]

datisi is literally scumclaiming here wtf

what bullshit is this 'how am i going last'

you know goddamn perfectly fine why i'm going last

[Iconeum]

there is no way ever i'm in the middle of the pack, and also i'm going dead last

period

llama already claimed and oooooh boy how the fuck are you going last

i copied something from my iso and removed SS

[Iconeum]

i one million percent expected a dead thread pt link

tell me about it lol

also i'm not even very serious about scumreading you here because scum!you got rid of me tonight or before that given… reasons

[Iconeum]

like, how is ANYTHING in this game within my scumrange lololol

i can literally shoot this question right back at you you know

[Iconeum]

like

in scum!ico world

who am i scum with? lol

[Iconeum]

i'm just

mildly annoyed you seem to drop your townread of me because?????

[Iconeum]

outworld? okay maybe

llama and umlaut? are you fucking kidding me right now

[Iconeum]

we should focus on massclaim first btw

[Iconeum]

this could be an entirely different conversation after that

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i can yield koto going after me but that's it

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because

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i'd be down just yeeting llama

there is literally no way he is town, and in the *actual* event where anya did fake anything this game is over anyway

[Iconeum]

i see potential benefits from massclaim

we can yeet llama

whatever

[Iconeum]

i still wanna believe this can be a win if we find the town outside of datisi/ico/koto

which should be in (umlaut/Samantha) probably?

maybe one of these is the mailman and this becomes auto

[Iconeum]

koto do you have any major issues with massclaim other then 'no need just yeet llama'?

[Iconeum]

i do not wish to be the deciding vote between massclaim and yeeting again

[Iconeum]

the bigger issue here is that if Samantha is town, we need her alligned

which wasn't the case yesterday

[Iconeum]

relooking at my notes

people that voted llama: luca, datisi, ico, koto, rathe, anya
luca gets cold feet here
people that voted llama part two: datisi, ico, koto, rathe, anya, infinity

this is a thing that happened

does iconeum bus here

the question of the century

he did swap to infinity later on

you can be paranoid of this shit all you like
but you know it's *unlikely* to say the least that i would have bussed there
you switched to infinity as well IIRC
every one, literally everyone else on wagon was town

i think Koto was the only soul who was still on llama

do you really wanna do this

or just yeet the llama

[Iconeum]

pff whatever

i think i'm beyond miles from my own scumrange
if you disagree that's fine - push me or not

i thought we had a shot yesterday with scum!anya - yeah

this town is utterly destroyed and i already spent more energy this day *trying* to get something of a townblock but whatever
there's no agreement between koto/datisi/ico about massclaim or just yeet umlaut

there's a hidden town somewhere that probably doesn't even wanna play with us

you guys decide what to do i'm here to claim if you need me or vote

[Iconeum]

i don't care if we massclaim or just yeet in umlaut/llama and one of (sam/outworld)

that is literally the solve

[Iconeum]

and it's like we all agree with that but still just fight because???

[Iconeum]

why are you getting so bitchy about it

are you genuiney surprised that i'm taking a step back here until massclaim is done?

what you are doing is close to actively sabotaging any kind of town cohesion there's left

[Iconeum]

same goes for koto btw

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do you agree with my solve or not

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ok that's unfair

massclaim can change whatever

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fine

we go massclaim

koto will just have to yield that then

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i'm sticking to my prior order

[Iconeum]

we are massclaiming Samantha

it's not your turn yet

[Iconeum]

when was this town ever working together anyway...

this is the only reason i got a little cookoo earlier

[Iconeum]

when was this town ever working together anyway...

be the change you want to see

by voting llama with us

who are you townreads

[Iconeum]

day and night kills are already locked in

massclaim is anti-town

now for real that's the last thing I'm gonna say today unless I get into prod range

are you seriously not gonna answer the question?

maybe i just yeet you today instead

[Iconeum]

umlaut/koto/Samantha voting llama

not voting are datisi/ico/outworld/llama

so yeah

llama is only town if the scumteam is literally umlaut/koto/Samantha lel

everyone else had opportunity to finish game then

[Iconeum]

umlaut's turn to claim

[Iconeum]

tho i'm not sure if it's worth it if Samantha and koto are gonna stick to their refusal

[Iconeum]

in which case i should just hammer

fuck this game

[Iconeum]

Samantha answer the question pls

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you know i'm *this* close to just voting right

[Iconeum]

and they literally can't all be scum

the knowledge of having town actively not trying to work together is

not fun

even the conftown is just sitting there

[Iconeum]

i know

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and i have every opportunity to avoid it

voting

nightkill

profit

it would be so easy

[Iconeum]

yet here we are

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instead i'm here helping you push massclaim because?

[Iconeum]

ok ok something else that was bothering me - your play around s_s was weird? how sure were you that anya is scum yesterday?

if you have a proper question regarding SS, hit me with it

scum!anya

literally over 9000

[Iconeum]

like

anya's Rathe vote
anya's quickhammer because 'oh but i was just scared i get yeeted instead', while having *that* claim up her sleeve
the trolling after
and then coming out with a supposed guilty the next day?

come on

[Iconeum]

i still scumread anya lol

[Iconeum]

Look.

I have no clue whats going on.

If scum are just screwing with me because it makes Anya game throwing funnier.

If Anya lied about N1 too and my entire wagon is scum.

If this is a setup where there are only two scum so thats a part of it.

Just give me through this weekend to try and see what I can piece together.

there is a 0 % chance scum are trolling if they can literally win right here and now

like, in town!you world

who's the scumteam at this point? Anyone of me/datisi who are just not hammering you because???
even outworld checked in

so you think the entire scumteam is on your wagon now or?

[Iconeum]

points for effort but ur a ded llama

[Iconeum]

ok but i don't see any realistic % that scum are not quickhammering into what they think is a win here

not with the entire team still alive

right?

or you really wanna side with llama on that argument?

[Iconeum]

man that trauma really shows sometimes

[Iconeum]

i'm just trying to lighten the atmosphere

how i envision this

Spoiler:

[Iconeum]

call weekend vla or hammer

hmmmmmm

[Iconeum]

weekend vla

soon

[Iconeum]

Spoiler:

[Iconeum]

fun times acomin to tooownn

[Iconeum]

suggestion for order, datisi?

[Iconeum]

Datisi, samantha97, OutWorldER, Umlaut

if the 2 town in this list can please raise their hands that would be lovely thanks

Datisi ur one of em right? SURELY you don't let me live up until this point with massclaim about to happen right

*right*

[Iconeum]

and then i don't fucking now

scum!tisi already won this game

so assume town!tisi

sam/outworld/umlaut

just lol

[Iconeum]

i've got a lowkey theory here about the scumteam

wanna hear?

[Iconeum]

i'm telling anyway

they don't know about our history and did an oopsie not killing us

[Iconeum]

but also uhh scum!you never *not* kills me in the past two nights, right...?

wanna say stuff but maybe wait for post massclaim

that goes before anything now yeah?

[Iconeum]

umalut, sam, me, you?

this works for me btw

but IIRC umlaut claimed VT?

[Iconeum]

roger

let's hit it

[Iconeum]

Samantha do you have a solve for this game?

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k

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who are the scummers

[Iconeum]

Surprise

[Iconeum]

Does anyone beside datisi need crumbing

[Iconeum]

Perhaps outworld wishes to cc

[Iconeum]

You have no idea how salty i was lol

[Iconeum]

Hardclaim loyal mailman

I can post the crumbs tomorrow
All referencing multiple games where im a version of mailman

[Iconeum]

Datisi prob town because he caught that days ago and im still alive

[Iconeum]

I had an entire message layed out for my night one action

You have no idea my disappointment

[Iconeum]

figured.

you have *no fucking idea* how hard my heart sank when, literally 30 seconds after samantha hammered rathe, i realized one of ico's posts was a loyal mailman soft.

Wet Luca reference you that game yes
And z post where i mention 892 prior to that because i couldn't fucking find the other one

And then Luca just brings it up

[Iconeum]

there's a lot of shit still bothering me tho, i'll lay it out sometime today for us to have a lovely chat tomorrow morning.

there is a high ++chance of there being (loyal?) mailman, which is stronger than TA? No?

Well if there's an ungated loyal mailman then they need to claim so we can murderize Anya with extreme prejudice. But until that happens I'll assume there isn't.

main one being this post.

ico, what was your reaction to reading this?

i didn't feel any pressure to claim at that time just to get anya flipped
was pretty set on getting the anya flip either way, my claiming at that point just gets me killed before massclaim

why scum kill SS? i dunno
fearkill probably?

[Iconeum]

hi I want to ask you and iconeum a couple of things

first, why have both of you, in multiple ways, suggested that koto was not going to be/would possibly not be the nk last night?

second, even though one has an enabler and the other has obfuscation, town has 2 cops in a 13p game supposedly... does that not seem op?

I'm gonna go work on something while you answer that

it's a thing you need to study history for, first
datisi and i go way back

scum!tisi kills me this game, and i tried baiting that because i wasn't more then a named townie from the getgo
but here i am so i think datisi is town

the *real* question is, who is the other town

as for mech spec, don't ask me if that feels a little OP but i'd be glad to have a look at it

[Iconeum]

but like in mech talk

the TA functions like a cop, but with potential shenanigans on my role
and my role has the potential to just get absolutely destroyed, which in fact happened
the TA also can't be protected by the doc
and there's a rolestopper that can function against both cop powers

and we haven't seen any scum power yet

[Iconeum]

well datisi failed the test of town

anyone else wanna try

what is your solve?

[Iconeum]

I'm still VT.

I don't follow why Datisi gets townpoints for Ico being alive considering after Rathe elim the only function Ico had was as a named townie and he didn't use that to throw any weight around.

As for my suspicions on this terrible Elo: Umlaut/Samantha feels way too easy but my brain tells me that's where it should go. I didn't like Umlaut yesterday and I haven't like Samantha all game.

I'm very paranoid of Datisi after my experience modding 2195 but tbh I'm checked out of this game and kinda want to just defer to Ico's experience with Datisi on this. I'll still him a lookover though.

you think scum!Samantha is gonna open lylo by bussing? and by opening up a scumread on datisi of all people?

[Iconeum]

Good morning everyone, I'm a VT.

Don't have a solve yet, don't even have one definite TR (Datisi probable TR though); working on it

ok so updated thoughts now please

what is your solve

[Iconeum]

@samantha

if you think this is gonna be a quick and fast phase, ur wrong

if we flip scum, i'm dead, and then this happens all over again one last time

i'm not ending this day before i'm reasonably confident there is a path to victory

[Iconeum]

how can you be scumreading umlaut, shade datisi so heavily, and yet not have an active opinion on outworld here?

i've just gone thru your iso, it barely mentions him at all

[Iconeum]

how the fuck did you just "go through her iso" and not have noticed the 100+ times outworld is mentioned or quoted in it?

what

[Iconeum]

100+ matches if you just count the word 'outworld'

90 of those are vote count thingies

[Iconeum]

i could find 1 (one) post where outworld is mentioned where there's also actually an opinion on the slot

[Iconeum]

but i only went thru page 2 of iso, not page 1

[Iconeum]

Haven't really thought about this today, but the fact I haven't been hammered kind of narrows it down here.

VOTE: Samantha

If this is wrong we lose anyway, but I'm pretty sure it's right just by PoE. Partner is either Icon or Outworld; I'm not as convinced as everyone else that the claim makes Icon town and I really don't understand the case that the role is even town-indicative. Also:

If Ico's scum mailman I feel like we already lost so I'm just kinda assuming his claim is conftown.

Why have we already lost if Ico is scum mailman? We just vote him and he gets eliminated like anyone else. Why do you think this?

how does anything get narrowed down? what's the conclusion you make then?

and did you see my crumbs?
why unvote immediately? (i don't think we should be voting yet, just wanna know the reason)

[Iconeum]

i mean, she was also very loud about wanting him dead on like days 1 and 2

yes

and there are, if i'm not wrong, exactly 0 (zero) posts where she townreads outworld

why is her solve here umlaut, and shading you?
without mentioning outworld at all?

[Iconeum]

in my head it's either Samantha with umlaut, and trying to make enough distance here to be able and say tomorrow 'omg why would i buss my partner like that in lylo'

or Samantha with outworld for reasons i just said

i don't really see umlaut with outworld? they've done ?? all game to get to this point?

[Iconeum]

if i'm making faulty assumptions about datisi here

and there are 2 town in (umlaut/outworld/Samantha)

please just kill me now lol

[Iconeum]

there's more coming right?

[Iconeum]

i don't feel like Samantha's shade is bothering you all that much?

[Iconeum]

ok so i just went to the post, and read the next posts i made and quoted them

hedge where????

if it's just the 'if town then', i mean, i didn't wanna die yet

Spoiler:

im feeling either massclaim

or yeet anya

anya's day 1 vote on Rathe was ugly
anya's EoD2 was disgusting and doesn't match with anything she's saying

it looks like her role is probably real to some extent, but with what i can see in this setup it's just super likely to be a scum counter to town power

i've had games where i was capable of seeing through town just playing bad, making bad gambits, but just *felt* it was town because ?? gut and all

i'm not having that feeling here with anya

if we yeet anya and she is scum, llama is probably dead yeah

if we yeet anya and she is town… wifom comes into play i think?

not yeeting anya today means we gotta settle on town!anya tho

and i don't see that happening but i'll give the ISO a reread

why are we randomly voting for rathe again

infinity i agree improved and i wouldn't vote for them but llama still feels more like an alpaca and that deserves punishment

m

i think Rathe was probably town and i can't remember what made me vote for him and i'm disgusted at myself

something about 6 hours left and not ending the day in no justice, but i regret not being stubborn on voting alpaca

someone tell me how this is town

[Iconeum]

95% of my posts are literally

kill anya
death to anya
etc

datisi why you say that

[Iconeum]

datisi

% of you actually thinking i could be scum here?

[Iconeum]

i don't really see umlaut with outworld? they've done ?? all game to get to this point?

i'm not sure how you're getting to this conclusion. like all three of them were very present at derailing the infinity/llama wagons and driving it onto rathe. then days 2 and 3 were town shooting itself in the foot with anya quickhammering and then being yeeted for it the next day. and yesterday was auto by guilty. i'm not sure how you get to the conclusion that scum ought to have been ~doing things~ to get to this point when we've been running on autopilot since the end of day 2?

i don't have the derail of the wagons fresh in my memory

but what is next is fair yeah

[Iconeum]

umlaut has been in snipe range for over 24 hours now

and?

[Iconeum]

can y'all just vote for umlaut

just like yesterday, the lynch and nightkills were decided before today

if you have reservations just look at those vote counts + (regarding me) llama's interactions with me, and how llama never even talked to umlaut until after he was outed as mafia

eager scum trying to finish the day by yeeting the misyeet bait?
eager scum trying to finish the day by yeeting the buddy for endgame play?
eager town trying to finish the day by yeeting ?????

i don't fucking now

[Iconeum]

Im still horribly slammed and probably wont get a chance to fully catchup until around this time tomorrow as I am actually trying to move some work around so I take an afternoon break to do this, go back to work and then record directly after that.

Anyway, I think my big takeaway from a quick read is OW is town. VT claim in this situation to me is a massive towntell, its not like there is no other wagon that things can shift off to. Its almost strong enough that if OW is scum, I think it forces Umulat to be scum because that would have probably been where all the attention went (note that only works one way, OW-town or Umulat-scum by itself doesnt massively impact the other). Unless site meta has massively shifted, a D1 PR claim unless it really makes no sense, gets countered, etc tends to live... VT not so much. So yeah, defense mode on OW activated based on the classic tells.

I know time is short, but I dont love any of the wagons right now. If I missed any important questions let me know because I just absolutely blasted through everything so I can get something in today. Luckily we got more time tomorrow now (even if deadline moved from when I tend to log off for the night to middle of the night). Might be able to cycle back around in 5ish hours tonight.

Spoiler:

VOTE: outworlder

if someone hammers without a claim they should get instalynched tomorrow

last mini normal I played mafia hammered a neighborizer before they could claim, cause they were inactive like outworlder/umlaut

This bothers me (emphasis mine). This *really* bothers me because of the implications of it all. There is a difference between saying "no one hammer without a claim" and "no one hammer or they get ran up tomorrow". The second part, which Samantha decided to use here, includes a direct implication that OW is town, which is a very odd one to make as that flies in the face of their reads. Samantha is approaching OW from two different midsets. The first is that OW is scum and needs to go today. The second one is anyone who hammers without a claim is scum, unless you believe that she is seriously suggesting that if someone hammers without a claim that they are scum regardless of what OW flips. The natural mindset is "that was risky, but lets see what happens" if someone hammers a scumread with no claim. Not "you did X that automatically means Y". Because if OW is scum... hammering without a claim wouldnt be a scumtell unless Samantha is seriously suggesting scum would just hammer a partner without letting them claim.

Vote Samantha

Lets see what type of last minute push we can make.

does llama, with deadline in sight, really try to push his buddy here?

[Iconeum]

Spoiler:

Vanilla Town.

Infinity's probably town here, same with Andres. Ico also probably town.
Samantha is my only real egregious SR. Everyone else hasn't done anything I find particularly egregious, so scum is probably in deep. Keep an eye on Datisi, modding 2195 taught me he can deepwolf fairly well.

I really don't have any other alternatives other than Samantha, I think scum are deepwolfing hard this game (or I'm just blind) which is why I'm not actually opposed to your Datisi flash-wagon idea even though I think Datisi's probably town here? In his Notes PT for 2195 he mentions wanting to roll town and chill with his buds and that's kinda the vibe I get here especially with 1272. It's not even like a Baltar situation from 2195 because I don't think Datisi's had a game with Andres except 2195.

Samantha's early posting is just bad and while she's had some decent posts since then she flip-flops between giving sorta detailed posts and just throwing random shade at people for no real discernable reason. Her reaction to Andres pressure where she basically told him to fuck off while also attempting to induce paranoia ("scum might speedhammer me!") while also implying she TR'd everyone else on her wagon even though I was on her wagon at that time and I've been an SR of hers since forever?

Like I have a terrible track record with reading chronic shitposters as evidenced by the fact that I have to fight the urge to deathtunnel Pooky every game I play with him and I get that same kinda vibe from Samantha so maybe that does play into it, but they don't feel consistent. They SR you and me simultaneously and never elaborated on it and it's a conclusion I'm not sure how town would be able to come to? Like I want them to actually explain that because I feel if they don't a lot of accountability will be lost going into D2.

alright

VOTE: Datisi

Like every read Samantha's put out that hasn't be me has been shallow with little or sometimes literally no reasoning. They've shown no signs that their actually thinking about how my flip will affect your reads, they've just been pushing my elim. That's not a townie mindset.

VOTE: Samantha

calling it projecting without actually trying to refute the point and not being able to point to a single time where what I said above was not true.

16 hours

but fine

VOTE: Umlaut

Not sold here but better than No Lim.

what even is the Zoomer case??? I feel like at one point people just said Zoomer and started agreeing silently.

eh

VOTE: Zoomer

it's early and not enough coffee yet
but here's some outtakes from outworld iso, where he does consistently tell about his scumread Samantha, but never really commits to pushing/voting there

in fact, he spends all of his posting time talking about scum!samantha, and then votes datisi for ?? reasons
when he commits to voting his scumread, it only lasts for like 10 posts

the last vote changes can be attributed to deadline pressure sure
but i don't get the feeling he's really believing his own Samantha scumread

[Iconeum]

just like yesterday, the lynch and nightkills were decided before today

where do you get this idea from?

is this interaction from outworld with his game-long scumread? doesn't feel like it

[Iconeum]

but i don't feel that Samantha/outworld make a ton of sense here

so Samantha/umlaut? and just hard bussing in lylo??

umlaut/outworld? but why is outworld not pushing Samantha harder then??

why does nothing make actual sense

[Iconeum]

I didn't see your crumbs, I have pretty much never noticed a crumb in my life as far as I can recallI unvoted on the outside chance it's you/Outworld, I thought I saw the two of you posting in reasonably quick succession sometime after Sam's vote but I must have hallucinated it.

and has your thoughts changed now? do you think i'm scum?

for someone who's unsure about my claim, why are you not pressing me for explanation?
you don't feel like ur trying to solve me, ya know?

[Iconeum]

that's pretty much my concern here with *LITERALLY* all of umlaut/outworld/Samantha

they aren't trying to solve
and there is 1 town in there with an outside shot of 2, which is extremely concerning lol

[Iconeum]

like, umlaut didn't really ignore me

but he expresses concerns and then… just doesn't try to solve said concerns? in lylo?

[Iconeum]

Samantha is just 'yeet this it's fixed anyway'

with some bullshit levels of confidence that have no place in lylo

[Iconeum]

and outworld is having something of a tea party with his number one scumread

i don't even know

[Iconeum]

why haven't you layed out full mech spec yet?

[Iconeum]

i tried to give it a start but you didn't pick it up?

[Iconeum]

the TA, under 'normal' circumstances, does not generate clears

assuming N1 happens without much trouble

there's 2 neighbours that generate positive, plus me and not accounting for anything scum might have
then you have a rolestopper in there which can hurt me and the TA, again not even accounting what scum might have
the TA can't be docced

[Iconeum]

however however he did not solely crumb loyal, which we know bc he said he softed by mentioning 892 too

after this game you will realize I just literally couldn't find the loyal mailman game and settled for 892 until Luca brought it up

[Iconeum]

ok true

better make up your mind about my claim if you think i'm playing shenanigans this time

[Iconeum]

i'd rather you do that actually

you think anywhere near my scum meta here?

[Iconeum]

if my play looks flat it's because there's 3 scum slots that somehow contain town in them and none makes sense with that allignment

[Iconeum]

Samantha

what are your reads

Umlaut

what are your reads

Outworld

what are your reads

why is nobody caring????