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[Datisi]

I mean the case is just 3158 and 3229

i understand your feeling on the first one but i'm gonna need an elaboration on the second one

why would you vote one half of a 1v1 because the other half is refusing to do something you want?

especially since it's not really a 1v1, and the question llama is refusing to answer is extremely pertinent to this (and llama is actively hindering our ability to understand the gamestate by not answering it), but umlaut is nevertheless treating it like it is, and somehow not trying to punish llama for preventing us from understanding what's going on.

umlaut, why did you never respond to this?

[Iconeum]

ok so i just went to the post, and read the next posts i made and quoted them

hedge where????

if it's just the 'if town then', i mean, i didn't wanna die yet

Spoiler:

im feeling either massclaim

or yeet anya

anya's day 1 vote on Rathe was ugly
anya's EoD2 was disgusting and doesn't match with anything she's saying

it looks like her role is probably real to some extent, but with what i can see in this setup it's just super likely to be a scum counter to town power

i've had games where i was capable of seeing through town just playing bad, making bad gambits, but just *felt* it was town because ?? gut and all

i'm not having that feeling here with anya

if we yeet anya and she is scum, llama is probably dead yeah

if we yeet anya and she is town… wifom comes into play i think?

not yeeting anya today means we gotta settle on town!anya tho

and i don't see that happening but i'll give the ISO a reread

why are we randomly voting for rathe again

infinity i agree improved and i wouldn't vote for them but llama still feels more like an alpaca and that deserves punishment

m

i think Rathe was probably town and i can't remember what made me vote for him and i'm disgusted at myself

something about 6 hours left and not ending the day in no justice, but i regret not being stubborn on voting alpaca

someone tell me how this is town

[Iconeum]

95% of my posts are literally

kill anya
death to anya
etc

datisi why you say that

[Datisi]

I don't follow why Datisi gets townpoints for Ico being alive considering after Rathe elim the only function Ico had was as a named townie and he didn't use that to throw any weight around.

[...]

I'm very paranoid of Datisi after my experience modding 2195 but tbh I'm checked out of this game and kinda want to just defer to Ico's experience with Datisi on this. I'll still him a lookover though.

that wasn't what i said. i literally mentioned that the argument "i would have killed ico" is realistically untrue.

this just feels fake. like, 2195 was one of my better scumgames. and it's *nowhere near* my play this game. like, i'd understand this on day 1 when i was being kinda lowkey but come on now.

whyyy are you all so scummy

[Iconeum]

datisi

% of you actually thinking i could be scum here?

[Datisi]

hedge where????

meh. from my pov it was *extremely* obvious you were the mailman bc you just kept throwing crumb after crumb. i figured you *wanted* others to see it and would've actually doubled down on anya being scum there, and not make some of the "do we massclaim?", "we

probably

flip anya here" etc posts.

[Datisi]

datisi

% of you actually thinking i could be scum here?

maybe 25%? i dunno. like the fact that s_s made it very clear those two roles cannot coexist... it's messing with my head.

also class in 5 minutes so. i'll be back in some 4-5 hours.

[Iconeum]

i don't really see umlaut with outworld? they've done ?? all game to get to this point?

i'm not sure how you're getting to this conclusion. like all three of them were very present at derailing the infinity/llama wagons and driving it onto rathe. then days 2 and 3 were town shooting itself in the foot with anya quickhammering and then being yeeted for it the next day. and yesterday was auto by guilty. i'm not sure how you get to the conclusion that scum ought to have been ~doing things~ to get to this point when we've been running on autopilot since the end of day 2?

i don't have the derail of the wagons fresh in my memory

but what is next is fair yeah

[samantha97]

can y'all just vote for umlaut

just like yesterday, the lynch and nightkills were decided before today

if you have reservations just look at those vote counts + (regarding me) llama's interactions with me, and how llama never even talked to umlaut until after he was outed as mafia

[Datisi]

Anyway, I think my big takeaway from a quick read is OW is town. VT claim in this situation to me is a massive towntell, its not like there is no other wagon that things can shift off to.

Its almost strong enough that if OW is scum, I think it forces Umulat to be scum because that would have probably been where all the attention went

(note that only works one way, OW-town or Umulat-scum by itself doesnt massively impact the other). Unless site meta has massively shifted, a D1 PR claim unless it really makes no sense, gets countered, etc tends to live... VT not so much. So yeah, defense mode on OW activated based on the classic tells.

so i'm kinda scrolling around llama's iso and i find this and like surely... surely he didn't...

[Umlaut]

Haven't really thought about this today, but the fact I haven't been hammered kind of narrows it down here.

VOTE: Samantha

If this is wrong we lose anyway, but I'm pretty sure it's right just by PoE. Partner is either Icon or Outworld; I'm not as convinced as everyone else that the claim makes Icon town and I really don't understand the case that the role is even town-indicative. Also:

If Ico's scum mailman I feel like we already lost so I'm just kinda assuming his claim is conftown.

Why have we already lost if Ico is scum mailman? We just vote him and he gets eliminated like anyone else. Why do you think this?

how does anything get narrowed down? what's the conclusion you make then?

and did you see my crumbs?
why unvote immediately? (i don't think we should be voting yet, just wanna know the reason)

I don't even understand the first question

I didn't see your crumbs, I have pretty much never noticed a crumb in my life as far as I can recall

I unvoted on the outside chance it's you/Outworld, I thought I saw the two of you posting in reasonably quick succession sometime after Sam's vote but I must have hallucinated it.

I mean the case is just 3158 and 3229

i understand your feeling on the first one but i'm gonna need an elaboration on the second one

why would you vote one half of a 1v1 because the other half is refusing to do something you want?

especially since it's not really a 1v1, and the question llama is refusing to answer is extremely pertinent to this (and llama is actively hindering our ability to understand the gamestate by not answering it), but umlaut is nevertheless treating it like it is, and somehow not trying to punish llama for preventing us from understanding what's going on.

umlaut, why did you never respond to this?

What should I have said to it? I'm not in general interested in how people read me unless I can get a read on them from it (or we're going to lose the game over it, which... maybe we are now, but it didn't seem like it on day 3), and I felt like S_S was likely town.

I voted Anya over Llama because I thought she was scum, I don't feel like it needs more explanation than that. I thought Llama refusing to answer the question was annoying and unhelpful but I didn't think it was scummy.

[samantha97]

[OutWorldER]

just like yesterday, the lynch and nightkills were decided before today

where do you get this idea from?

[samantha97]

umlaut has been in snipe range for over 24 hours now

[samantha97]

where do you get this idea from?

votes and stuff

[Iconeum]

umlaut has been in snipe range for over 24 hours now

and?

[Iconeum]

can y'all just vote for umlaut

just like yesterday, the lynch and nightkills were decided before today

if you have reservations just look at those vote counts + (regarding me) llama's interactions with me, and how llama never even talked to umlaut until after he was outed as mafia

eager scum trying to finish the day by yeeting the misyeet bait?
eager scum trying to finish the day by yeeting the buddy for endgame play?
eager town trying to finish the day by yeeting ?????

i don't fucking now

[Iconeum]

Im still horribly slammed and probably wont get a chance to fully catchup until around this time tomorrow as I am actually trying to move some work around so I take an afternoon break to do this, go back to work and then record directly after that.

Anyway, I think my big takeaway from a quick read is OW is town. VT claim in this situation to me is a massive towntell, its not like there is no other wagon that things can shift off to. Its almost strong enough that if OW is scum, I think it forces Umulat to be scum because that would have probably been where all the attention went (note that only works one way, OW-town or Umulat-scum by itself doesnt massively impact the other). Unless site meta has massively shifted, a D1 PR claim unless it really makes no sense, gets countered, etc tends to live... VT not so much. So yeah, defense mode on OW activated based on the classic tells.

I know time is short, but I dont love any of the wagons right now. If I missed any important questions let me know because I just absolutely blasted through everything so I can get something in today. Luckily we got more time tomorrow now (even if deadline moved from when I tend to log off for the night to middle of the night). Might be able to cycle back around in 5ish hours tonight.

Spoiler:

VOTE: outworlder

if someone hammers without a claim they should get instalynched tomorrow

last mini normal I played mafia hammered a neighborizer before they could claim, cause they were inactive like outworlder/umlaut

This bothers me (emphasis mine). This *really* bothers me because of the implications of it all. There is a difference between saying "no one hammer without a claim" and "no one hammer or they get ran up tomorrow". The second part, which Samantha decided to use here, includes a direct implication that OW is town, which is a very odd one to make as that flies in the face of their reads. Samantha is approaching OW from two different midsets. The first is that OW is scum and needs to go today. The second one is anyone who hammers without a claim is scum, unless you believe that she is seriously suggesting that if someone hammers without a claim that they are scum regardless of what OW flips. The natural mindset is "that was risky, but lets see what happens" if someone hammers a scumread with no claim. Not "you did X that automatically means Y". Because if OW is scum... hammering without a claim wouldnt be a scumtell unless Samantha is seriously suggesting scum would just hammer a partner without letting them claim.

Vote Samantha

Lets see what type of last minute push we can make.

does llama, with deadline in sight, really try to push his buddy here?

[Iconeum]

Spoiler:

Vanilla Town.

Infinity's probably town here, same with Andres. Ico also probably town.
Samantha is my only real egregious SR. Everyone else hasn't done anything I find particularly egregious, so scum is probably in deep. Keep an eye on Datisi, modding 2195 taught me he can deepwolf fairly well.

I really don't have any other alternatives other than Samantha, I think scum are deepwolfing hard this game (or I'm just blind) which is why I'm not actually opposed to your Datisi flash-wagon idea even though I think Datisi's probably town here? In his Notes PT for 2195 he mentions wanting to roll town and chill with his buds and that's kinda the vibe I get here especially with 1272. It's not even like a Baltar situation from 2195 because I don't think Datisi's had a game with Andres except 2195.

Samantha's early posting is just bad and while she's had some decent posts since then she flip-flops between giving sorta detailed posts and just throwing random shade at people for no real discernable reason. Her reaction to Andres pressure where she basically told him to fuck off while also attempting to induce paranoia ("scum might speedhammer me!") while also implying she TR'd everyone else on her wagon even though I was on her wagon at that time and I've been an SR of hers since forever?

Like I have a terrible track record with reading chronic shitposters as evidenced by the fact that I have to fight the urge to deathtunnel Pooky every game I play with him and I get that same kinda vibe from Samantha so maybe that does play into it, but they don't feel consistent. They SR you and me simultaneously and never elaborated on it and it's a conclusion I'm not sure how town would be able to come to? Like I want them to actually explain that because I feel if they don't a lot of accountability will be lost going into D2.

alright

VOTE: Datisi

Like every read Samantha's put out that hasn't be me has been shallow with little or sometimes literally no reasoning. They've shown no signs that their actually thinking about how my flip will affect your reads, they've just been pushing my elim. That's not a townie mindset.

VOTE: Samantha

calling it projecting without actually trying to refute the point and not being able to point to a single time where what I said above was not true.

16 hours

but fine

VOTE: Umlaut

Not sold here but better than No Lim.

what even is the Zoomer case??? I feel like at one point people just said Zoomer and started agreeing silently.

eh

VOTE: Zoomer

it's early and not enough coffee yet
but here's some outtakes from outworld iso, where he does consistently tell about his scumread Samantha, but never really commits to pushing/voting there

in fact, he spends all of his posting time talking about scum!samantha, and then votes datisi for ?? reasons
when he commits to voting his scumread, it only lasts for like 10 posts

the last vote changes can be attributed to deadline pressure sure
but i don't get the feeling he's really believing his own Samantha scumread

[Iconeum]

just like yesterday, the lynch and nightkills were decided before today

where do you get this idea from?

is this interaction from outworld with his game-long scumread? doesn't feel like it

[Iconeum]

but i don't feel that Samantha/outworld make a ton of sense here

so Samantha/umlaut? and just hard bussing in lylo??

umlaut/outworld? but why is outworld not pushing Samantha harder then??

why does nothing make actual sense

[Iconeum]

I didn't see your crumbs, I have pretty much never noticed a crumb in my life as far as I can recallI unvoted on the outside chance it's you/Outworld, I thought I saw the two of you posting in reasonably quick succession sometime after Sam's vote but I must have hallucinated it.

and has your thoughts changed now? do you think i'm scum?

for someone who's unsure about my claim, why are you not pressing me for explanation?
you don't feel like ur trying to solve me, ya know?

[Datisi]

i am somewhat concerned that both umlaut and outworld are kinda... ignoring both me and ico?

why is outworld willing to trust ico on me when he's apparently paranoid of me? why isn't he then trying to change my mind when i obviously think he's scum and he's not trying to interact with my q's toward him? what is this game

[Iconeum]

that's pretty much my concern here with *LITERALLY* all of umlaut/outworld/Samantha

they aren't trying to solve
and there is 1 town in there with an outside shot of 2, which is extremely concerning lol

[Iconeum]

like, umlaut didn't really ignore me

but he expresses concerns and then… just doesn't try to solve said concerns? in lylo?