newbie 2060: creatures, game ofer

[Lukewarm]

I have done a full ISO for you Demainer, and I cannot find a single post that does not rub me the wrong way tbh.

Post 10 - combative over a RVS vote on you
Post 52, post 55 A lot of posts pushing on Wheme, including accusing him of being defensive at e-1 (when you were defensive / combative after a single vote landed on you). And a weird line about a vote not actually happening day 1
Post 139, post 179, post 181, post 182 These all felt like you were purposefully misunderstanding me. Like even after I clarified, and multiple other players commented that they understood what I was saying.


And now that I am reading back through after our most recent interactions today, where you repeatedly have said "no one was suspicious of Ahri," a couple of posts stood out to me:
209where I said I was worried Ahri could be scum
and 183 where YOU said Ahri "gave you bad vibes."

And today you keep trying to insist that Ahri being targeted by the mafia was bad for the town, despite many people saying that it seemed like a poor decision from the mafia. Almost like you are trying to defend your own decision.

[Lukewarm]

I also feel like I want to address 303 Like, i think this one has earned its own post.

If you're scumreading me for apologizing to Wheme, then so be it, it's your choice. I was convinced our scum team was Wheme + Clasko, but with Wheme flipping town I've gone back to the drawing board and re-iso'd everyone.

...

Clasko: I went into the D1 flip thinking he was lockscum, but now I've re-iso'd him he comes off as town. It's only a lean though. His "slip" on me and Wheme does not read scum to me now, and his D2 activity has been giving me good vibes as well, I see someone trying to figure things out rather than trying to force town into a conclusion.

I did not catch this at first, because Wheme+Clasko was my read day 1. But right now, when I am ISOing you I spotted it. You never once actually said that you suspected that combination on Day 1. You pushed Wheme pretty hard, but you never said you thought he was partnered with Clasko.

In 99 Endlessdark said he suspected Wheme+Clasko. In 152 I said I was supicious of Wheme+Clasko.

But you, you never said that that was your suspicion. Not even to agree with me or endless dark.

So now I am supposed to believe that you were "convinced" it was him, but you never once said it, even to agree with multiple other people saying it. And the first time you ever thought to share that suspicion was in a post that you tried to CLEAR Clasko.

I'm not buying it. The more I read over all of the messages, and reread them, the more I am convincing myself that it is Demainer + Clasko. So I think it is going to take a power role giving me more information to go off of or a major slip up to change my mind at this point.

VOTE: Demainer

[schadd_]

Bell replaces saudade.

[schadd_]

replacing endlessdark by request

[Lukewarm]

Is it particularly common for people to replace out of games on this site? This is my first game on here, so I have no point of reference.

[Bell]

Hello all. This is a phone post.!

I’m gunna catch up more fully after some off the clock work once I get home.

To summarize the game so far, this game has been fairly inactive. There has been one miselimination.

325 and 326 is pretty good.

Replace outs are somewhat common due to a variety of reasons. I’m not sure what the replace out rate for newbies in a newbie game is, but it’s probably fairly high.

[Ivyeo]

Imma just reread the whole game and give some thoughts, I feel a bit lost right now

[Bell]

Caught up.

People that care but might be good scum:
Lukewarm.
Egix.

People that don't seem to care in order of enthusiasm.

Endless dark
Demainer
Ivymeo.
Clasko

[Lukewarm]

Caught up.

People that care but might be good scum:
Lukewarm.
Egix.

People that don't seem to care in order of enthusiasm.

Endless dark
Demainer
Ivymeo.
Clasko

hmmm. I'm not sure what I am supposed to take from this this tbh. Is being high supposed to indicate more likely to be town? or of being scum? or neither?

I am also unsure how you came up with your ranking, specifically why you have Demainer so low, when according to the activity overview, Demainer has the most posts of any living player (at 44).

Would you care to elaborate?

[Bell]

Caught up.

People that care but might be good scum:
Lukewarm.
Egix.

People that don't seem to care in order of enthusiasm.

Endless dark
Demainer
Ivymeo.
Clasko

hmmm. I'm not sure what I am supposed to take from this this tbh. Is being high supposed to indicate more likely to be town? or of being scum? or neither?

I am also unsure how you came up with your ranking, specifically why you have Demainer so low, when according to the activity overview, Demainer has the most posts of any living player (at 44).

Would you care to elaborate?

Both and neither. The people who are trying I pay more attention to, they also tend to more likely be town, but I pay more attention to them in case they're scum doing a good job. I tend to put them through another layer skepticism.

While I am thinking about post-rates, I'm also thinking about (how to word this?) density, thoughtfulness, and complexity to an argument. Along with a dash of believability.

[Lukewarm]

That... didn't exactly clear anything up for me

I think I am just going to trust that you have a process to get from that list to the list of people you think are most/least likely to be town lol

Any thoughts on that front?

[Lukewarm]

Imma just reread the whole game and give some thoughts, I feel a bit lost right now

Ivyeo, I would love to hear more from you as well

[Bell]

@People in my don't care list: do you prefer to play town or scum (or if you're new which alignment appeals to you more?)
@Everyone: Why aren't you scum this game?

[Egix96]

Caught up.

People that care but might be good scum:
Lukewarm.
Egix.

People that don't seem to care in order of enthusiasm.

Endless dark
Demainer
Ivymeo.
Clasko

> Egix
> might be good scum

Nah. In response to your latest question, I think my D1 this game was pretty obv town, even if I do say so myself.

Is the enthusiasm order meant to be ascending or descending? I don't get why dark is at the top with Clasko being at the bottom.

[Demainer]

Ivyeo is my strongest (and only) sr so far. I'm mainly just reading her posts for spew now.

[Demainer]

With Saudade and endless both disappearing and not posting for a while, it's a bit difficult to figure out the last scum. I can see Egix and Saudade being w/w with Ivyeo.

[Ivyeo]

Rereading, I think my evil team would be Demainer>Egix. Luke would be my other valuable (town) read as I've agreed with most of what he's said, and he's pushing the game forward and importantly

Disscussing with the town what to do and why.

Demainer appears to be playing with the mindset that we will be executing what he wants, and not really pushing the discussion forward except toward what he's started to tunnel. Whilst he has a high post count, it's mostly been tunneling Wheme, who was a VT. I can't fully explain why all of this feels scummy, as it could also just a very tunnely and confident towny, but it just kinda *feels* scummy to me as opposed to that.

Egix I would more like an explanation from, as I found some of his posts a bit off. Most specifically...

I'm forming opinions on others that I don't want to give words to just yet. Stay tuned.

Probably about time I did this now:
- Egix96: - /M - Whilst I think his questions and contributions are helpful to town, they feel finely placed and thought-out... not enough to use the word "artificial" though..

I'm finding it hard to see how what you've written about me resolves to a scum lean overall, especially since you seemingly liked my 65 enough to warrant unvoting me.
.

Despite the fact Clasko said why he was voting Egix.

UNVOTE: Ivyeo - They spoke; I'm happy.

S'ppose I'll poke an SE now:

VOTE: Egix96 - Hi. Feeling any town vibes from anyone? Or too soon to say, do you reckon?

I guess the above question applies to anyone who's around, really...

They just wanted you to speak, then you tried to paint it as "liking the post enough to unvote," which is atleats disengenious. It's fairer to say they didn't dislike the post. This post,

If I'm answering truthfully, from my perspective, my nerves come from interacting with 8 strangers on the internet playing a game I love, but having outdated experience in.

Also, in response to being scum-read/bad reads, whilst I feel they're inevitable in every game, yes, I am afraid of making mistakes and looking bad. I also hate offending people and try to avoid it in games I'm in at all costs.

Like, I could definitely see this being an "It's not just because I randed scum, honest!" sort of post.

Also feels like you're almost using someone who may be a bit akward and trying to phrase it in a way that makes them look scummy, though ig akwardness could be a source for a read so anjdkwahdkjaw
Ethier way, I still feel Demainer more on a gut level, on top of what Luke was sayign, especially the Night kill stuff, which very much rubbed me the wrong way, and felt like it was trying to make me defensive. Clearer mafia mindset than with Egix.

VOTE: Demainer

I'll also try to rereread for a read (god awful sentece) on the others tomorrow, for now it's 5am and I haven't slept aaaaaaaaa

[Lukewarm]

Yay! People are talking!
(Well except Clasko)

With Saudade and endless both disappearing and not posting for a while, it's a bit difficult to figure out the last scum. I can see Egix and Saudade being w/w with Ivyeo.

.... I honestly don't understand how you can mention every single person except me and Clasko. How are you clearing Clasko so strongly? It just doesn't make sense. You read Ivy as scum because they were not posting much, but then Clasko has posted the least of everyone, and he is one of you strongest town reads?

And I outlined a lot of issues I have had in your posts, and you are completely ignoring everything I said? lol

VOTE: Demainer

I'll also try to rereread for a read (god awful sentece) on the others tomorrow, for now it's 5am and I haven't slept aaaaaaaaa

Does Saudade's vote transfer to Bell until they unvote? If so, Demainer is at e-1 now.

[Clasko]

Welcome, Bell!
Alright, was going to do this eventually:

@Everyone: Why aren't you scum this game?

I am a Town Cop - I investigated Egix96 last night, and he is confirmed Town. Dunno if this is the correct play, but here we are.
Two possible Mafia in these five, provided I don't get CC'd:

- Bell
- Demainer
- (endlessdark's replacement)
- Ivyeo
- Lukewarm

Reads to follow!

[Clasko]

Demainer

- I'm struggling to place him here - At D1, he placed his vote on Wheme, kept it there, and pushed him hard throughout the day. He then flips town, and Demainer now looks very bad. He is immediately under scrutiny at D2. I can't see this being a play that Mafia!Demainer employs. Like, what does he gain out of it?

Conversely:

Ivyeo and Ahri both give me bad vibes. They're posting very cautiously in the thread,

There is, and so far ahri's activity does not give me scum vibes. On the other hand, your posting has given me scum vibes, which I find much more compelling than mere inactivity.

Looks kinda contradictory.

Saudade

I felt was neutral before being replaced; I got the feeling they were genuinely unhappy with the gamestate - dunno if this is AI. This can go either way.

Luke

- I'm getting very bad vibes from this man. I don't see someone who is weighing all of the options of who Mafia is at all, and is instead just going all-out on Demainer. Admittedly he has reason to, some of which I agree with and some I do not, and whilst I liked the fact he made a read list, this was counter-balanced by not giving reasonings for any of the placements, outside of the top two, which he has explained elsewhere. His gameplay is good (driving forward, reviving a sluggish game), but I'm going to err on the side of him being a good mafia player who happened to roll Mafia here:

VOTE: Lukewarm

Ivyeo

- Very unsure here. Wheme strongly townread you earlier in the game (which shouldn't be discredited due to him being guaranteed town) but identified you as possible scum on his wagon before he died. I would still like to hear your opinions on others in the thread, so I'll hold off on further inspection.

endlessdark

- Mostly agreeable with others. One thing noteworthy of him is he was one of the only people not pointing the FOS at Demainer. I'm not sure what else to add here.

[Lukewarm]

Luke

- I'm getting very bad vibes from this man. I don't see someone who is weighing all of the options of who Mafia is at all, and is instead just going all-out on Demainer. Admittedly he has reason to, some of which I agree with and some I do not, and whilst I liked the fact he made a read list, this was counter-balanced by not giving reasonings for any of the placements, outside of the top two, which he has explained elsewhere. His gameplay is good (driving forward, reviving a sluggish game), but I'm going to err on the side of him being a good mafia player who happened to roll Mafia here:

VOTE: Lukewarm

I would not say that I have been tunneling on Demainer, at least not until recently lol. Day 1, I was juggling a lot of suspicions. But since Day2 has started, the conversation has been largely dead and I have read, and re-read, and re-read the Day 1 chat. And he is my strongest read by far, with multiple posts that felt anti-town. I'd even like to point you to my statement here:

So I think it is going to take a power role giving me more information to go off of or a major slip up to change my mind at this point]

The chat was dead, and I had read all of the messages many times over, and I felt like there was nothing else for me to gain from re-reading anymore. So it was gonna take some new info for me to do anything else lol.

But luckily, we just got some new info to work with!

I am a Town Cop - I investigated Egix96 last night, and he is confirmed Town. Dunno if this is the correct play, but here we are.
Two possible Mafia in these five, provided I don't get CC'd:

This changes everything on how I would approach the game moving forward!

So the first thing we need to do is see if anyone is gonna counter claim. And remember, there is a limited combination of abilities in this set up. The only way Clasko can be a cop is if we are in a Cop+Doctor or a Solo Cop set up.

So if you have any power other then Doctor (Cop, Jailkeeper, Tracker, Friendly Neighbor, or a Mason) then you can counter claim against him. If you are a Doctor, please do not reveal yourself.

[Egix96]

Egix I would more like an explanation from, as I found some of his posts a bit off. Most specifically...
<Snip - 167>

Despite the fact Clasko said why he was voting Egix.

It's just that I wasn't seeing how:
- He thought that my questions and contributions were helpful to town
- But on the other hand, said questions/contributions felt "finely placed and thought-out" which would imply that he thought they had an ulterior motive/agenda
- Though, nevertheless, not to enough of a degree that Clasko thought they seemed artificial.

By my interpretation, that seemed more like it justified a null/undecided read than a scum lean, and I was wondering if Clasko was trying to shoehorn it into a "/M" just so that he could say he had scumreads.

They just wanted you to speak, then you tried to paint it as "liking the post enough to unvote," which is atleats disengenious. It's fairer to say they didn't dislike the post.

To be fair, I did say "seemingly".

I am a Town Cop - I investigated Egix96 last night, and he is confirmed Town. Dunno if this is the correct play, but here we are.

I don't think you or I had much chance of dying soon, but I'll take it.

Two possible Mafia in these five, provided I don't get CC'd:

- Bell
- Demainer
- (endlessdark's replacement)
- Ivyeo
- Lukewarm

Okay, so if I'm right in thinking that Bellslot and Luke are town, and that Ivyeo and Demain are not SvS, then that leaves endlessdark as scum.

[Egix96]

VOTE: Endlessdark slot

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: Endlessdark slot

I really think that we should wait to see if there is a counter claim, before we vote based on Clasko's information.

Speaking of which UNVOTE:

[Demainer]

Clasko claiming Town Cop... I need to re-iso everyone now /sad

I still want to believe that the scum team has an se, Ahri was the perfect nightkill

I don't see a dual newbie being bold enough to pull that off tbh