Open 812 Guardians of the Fortress - Game Over

[Infinity 324]

I want to go to the wall since that's the only place my scumreads will matter unless I obvtown, which I probably won't cause I don't have super high motivation for mafia atm. Otherwise, I'd rather go to the wall (again, cause I probably won't obvtown)

Having a UTR decide who goes where should increase our odds of winning (of forcing someone to scumclaim by not following the plan) right?

Do you have a candidate for UTR?

Yeah briar makes sense unless she's secretly a god-level scum player.

[Infinity 324]

I think that I'd be able to read Infinity as well were she in that group with us as wel

Who are you? >.< I don't think anyone really has a consistent track record of reading me, largely because of sample size

[Infinity 324]

infinity is gut feeling - she doesn't feel as transparently townie as I'd think she'd be if she were town

Who are you? I've gotten quicklimmed d1 in a playerlist that almost all knew me. It's pretty rare I'm transparently town.

[Anastasia]

I think your play has gotten a lot better since then tbh.

[Marashu]

Official Vote Count 1.03

---

Preparation

Gate

(0): Nobody

Wall

(1): unwnd

Keep

(2): Briar, Anastasia

Unassigned

(6): Dunnstral, Infinity 324, catboi, absinthe, Lukewarm, Something_Smart

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-05-18 18:31:49).

Mod notes:

Only votes for the Gate, Wall, or Keep will be counted.

[absinthe]

My near-term goal is to get Keep won and have my card flipped as town so I don't have to deal with Absinthe suspecting me and my reads can be taken as Gospel Truth.

your near-term goal doesn't need to address dealing with my suspicion.

initially, the way you backed off really bugged me. It took a couple rereads of the whole interaction to see it as genuine. You hit a sore spot, and an alt hitting the spot so precisely should have been a bigger flag to me than it was. I said way back on page 2 that your phrasing clanged, and I think the reason it clanged was because it was kind of a persona -- the way you play on this alt. You later dropped that, or it became less pronounced, and your posts started to feel more genuine to me.

I think I know who you are. your posts about my scum game are consistent with that guess. seeing that kind of description from basically anyone else would never sit right with me. from who I think you are, it's frustrating, but I don't see it as for sure manipulative.

If you're who I think you are and scum, though, this game is going to leave a mark. :/

My read flip gave me whiplash.

[Anastasia]

With that said, I am looking for two wonderfully townie players to share a lovely evening under the stars with me.

I would like them to be so obviously town that I have no doubt in my heart that I can trust them.

well this is still my goal and you are still in my heart regardless of what you think of me.

[Infinity 324]

only if my reads are wrong

I think it's pretty silly to have a value judgement on play that is only determined after the game is over. We want to know now what's good and what isn't; so I think that it is bad play to commit yourself to a read like that, even if the read turns out to be right in the end.

I think you are stuck in a weird place where you can't decide whether you want to shade me as bold genius scum gambitter or bad town tunnel reader and it makes you sound funny

since I think you are scummy it makes me feel I'm on the right track with this briar/absinthe plan

I think you're probably approaching reading s_s not great, though he's still leaning scum for me atm. Like, he loves to talk about things in a vacuum and not come to firm conclusions, though the way he's doing it here I feel is +scum for him.

[absinthe]

I'm ok with going to the Keep.

my heart isn't in it, but it's due to annoyance at feeling* so provoked that I wound up dropping a megaton-sized Empire tell when I wanted to just be unequivocal town from the way I approach the game.

The Gate is still my second choice.

*this is an internal thing. I don't think anastasia set out to provoke me.

[Infinity 324]

The

Gate

is where we should have/should put the towniest members, for obvious reasons, except for 1 person we are voting at the keep

Why? Don't we want to put scummy players there to force scum to IC then?

[Infinity 324]

I think your play has gotten a lot better since then tbh.

Honestly, I'm pretty happy with how I played that game, though I wish I communicated my thoughts better. I don't think I've improved at communicating more than a little bit since then though. I'm confused at why you think I'd be obvtown, especially if you saw that game, but you're town for other reasons at this point so w/e

[Anastasia]

in D&C you obvtown'd very quickly and you will be put into a similar 3P very soon.

[absinthe]

I have a lot of frustratingly null players I want to figure out however. I think the pairing of (You/Absin/Briar) definitely has one scum but that being said one of you has partners. I'd like to see what catboi has to say to my retort and go from there

It's just my gut when it comes to the situation. We could be playing a game where something like S_S/Infinity/Dunn could simply be overwhelmed by townies but I don't see the evidence in that world. I think the most likely answer is that scum is fully committed in you 3. Do you disagree?

Who's the fully committed scum?

[Infinity 324]

in D&C you obvtown'd very quickly and you will be put into a similar 3P very soon.

In D&C I obvtowned quite slowly relative to my post volume, early on most people were scumreading me and I had an absurd amount of motivation compared to what I'm likely to have here.

I probably have a little more motivation than what I thought because I like the environment of this game, but don't expect me to be obvtown here.

[Something_Smart]

Do you really think you were getting more out of ana than you already got?

I hadn't gotten anything yet, so I should hope so?

[Something_Smart]

I'm ok with going to the Keep.

Putting 3 towny players in the Keep seems like a massive waste

[Infinity 324]

Do you really think you were getting more out of ana than you already got?

I hadn't gotten anything yet, so I should hope so?

Well she had outlined her basic thought process already

[Dunnstral]

The

Gate

is where we should have/should put the towniest members, for obvious reasons, except for 1 person we are voting at the keep

Why? Don't we want to put scummy players there to force scum to IC then?

I was thinking it would be easiest to deal with the swap, as long as there is only 1 scum in the gate it's fine too

I'm under the impression that mafia can swap into the gate and then make that person the ic

[Something_Smart]

Well she had outlined her basic thought process already

The thing about my questions is that they don't go sideways, they go down. So in other words, it's not like I'm asking the person to explain 3-4 things, where each thing provides a new insight into what they think; I'm asking them to explain 3-4 things, each of which is directly necessary to understand the previous answer. If they stop answering before I'm done, I have nothing.

Dunnstral is town for that post, BECAUSE he doesn't have undertones of saying it for towncred, BECAUSE he didn't make it wordier with meaningless mechanical stuff, which is scummy BECAUSE it's something scum are comfortable doing, but it's not something town are equally comfortable doing BECAUSE... oops, segfault. The whole chain of reasoning is impossible to follow without that answer.

Now, that's not to say that there's nothing readable in that exchange-- but I was looking for the underlying belief about how scum play different from town that was supporting the read, and I didn't get it. Maybe there wasn't one, which would be scum indicative for sure.

[Lukewarm]

I'm ok with going to the Keep.

Putting 3 towny players in the Keep seems like a massive waste

I think I agree. We only need two in there, 1 as the main vote choice, and 1 as the back-up in case the main vote is swapped out.

Are people comfortable with Briar as the main vote, and Ana as the back up? if so, we could leave the third slot for the "left over" player.

So I guess the question is really, does anyone scum read Briar or Ana?

[Something_Smart]

Are people comfortable with Briar as the main vote, and Ana as the back up?

We definitely should not be saying which of the two we'd rather elect.

[Infinity 324]

@s_s Why would ana make up a reason for a read she can't justify as scum?

[absinthe]

I'm ok with going to the Keep.

Putting 3 towny players in the Keep seems like a massive waste

Oh yeah, for the record-- another part of Ana's gambit could be hoping (or knowing, if absinthe is her partner) that absinthe doesn't end up picking Keep.

Also unlikely, but worth mentioning.

I'm confused.

[absinthe]

My thought is that putting 3 town (very likely town) into the keep forces the Mafia to use one of their swaps there. And the lack of the swap if that were to happen would force a massive reset on all of town, which would be crucial to not screwing up day 2.

[Lukewarm]

I think the point is more that it's probably objectively the Worst to send the hard to reads to the Keep because if they're all like, in that place where scum end up a lot of null-town/townleany it's a fucking headache to deal with.

Well if you become as blazingly townie as you promise, then it would make sense to send the scummy/nully people to the keep with you right?

I don't think that was clear from her post at all.

Ideally I want to put two UTRs in the keep to guarantee a win there.

I believe Absinthe/Me/You are all town.

So the scum would have to sub one of us out and put a scum in keep if they get 2-1 in the other 2 areas.

its very unlikely imo that the keep group can stay at me-absi-you, but if it does i'll deal with that situation when it comes up.

Ana, I am interested by the fact that your opinion on the Keep seems to have evolved from suggesting we put exactly 1 UTR in the keep, to saying the ideal would be 2 UTRs in the Keep, to deciding the best course of action would be for you to add yourself + your top town read, such that you are 100% sure all 3 players in the Keep are town.

I am just curious what made you change your mind here.