Open 812 Guardians of the Fortress - Game Over

[unwnd]

Can we all collectively blame Ana for the loss at the keep?

Like a nice public shaming that they can read from the ghost chat

:shakes fists:

No because I don't want anyone to feel bad. Ydra played that really well, I don't think there was a single scumread on her lol

[Something_Smart]

Folding meaning that S_S switched to me and Ydra both switched to me for distancing purposes. The funny thing is that S_S has been pretty consistent in disliking me so I give him that lol

Consistency is not really a towntell

[unwnd]

Folding meaning that S_S switched to me and Ydra both switched to me for distancing purposes. The funny thing is that S_S has been pretty consistent in disliking me so I give him that lol

Consistency is not really a towntell

Do you uh

Want me to still think you're scum over Catboi?

[Something_Smart]

I feel like you've spent more time trying to prove that you're town than making a case on catboi. It's not a binary, but more effort has gone to the former on day 2 than the latter. Can you refocus a little?

I'm so so so bad at cases.

I can make a case on catboi if you want. But it's going to suck. So if you say that I'm scum because my case on catboi sucks, after I gave you this warning, I will scream irl.

Requoting this on the new page to make sure it doesn't get buried.

Absinthe, would you like to see a case on catboi?

[Something_Smart]

Do you uh

Want me to still think you're scum over Catboi?

I mean I ultimately don't care what you think. I'm hoping that absinthe will appreciate my commitment to honesty even when it makes me look bad.

[unwnd]

You should care what I think given you're the one who scumreads me

[Something_Smart]

I don't follow that. Only absinthe has the power to decide my fate. If what you think influences her, then I would care, but that doesn't seem incredibly likely.

[absinthe]

It was to Catboi then I got ninja'd like four times

I don't understand what you mean by fold.

[unwnd]

I'm pretty sure absin is gonna ask you where your solve is in the wall I'm just trying to help you out bud

[unwnd]

Folding meaning that S_S switched to me and Ydra both switched to me for distancing purposes. The funny thing is that S_S has been pretty consistent in disliking me so I give him that lol

Pretty much this absin

[absinthe]

I feel like you've spent more time trying to prove that you're town than making a case on catboi. It's not a binary, but more effort has gone to the former on day 2 than the latter. Can you refocus a little?

I'm so so so bad at cases.

I can make a case on catboi if you want. But it's going to suck. So if you say that I'm scum because my case on catboi sucks, after I gave you this warning, I will scream irl.

Requoting this on the new page to make sure it doesn't get buried.

Absinthe, would you like to see a case on catboi?

Seeing the thought process would be helpful, yeah.

Folding meaning that S_S switched to me and Ydra both switched to me for distancing purposes. The funny thing is that S_S has been pretty consistent in disliking me so I give him that lol

I'm sure I'm being an obtusebear, but I don't understand why you're calling it "distancing".

Pretty much this absin

[absinthe]

misplaced my question to the 2nd quote: I'm sure I'm being an obtusebear, but I don't understand why you're calling it "distancing".

[unwnd]

Because the whole game has been running assumption I'm individually scum therefore Ydra being scum doesn't change that direction

[unwnd]

D1:
Ana - unwnd is scum
S_S - unwnd is scum
Dunn - unwnd is town
Lukewarm - unwnd is town
Catboi - unwnd is scum
Infinity - don't remember if she gave a read
You - unwnd is scum?
Ydra - unwnd is town

D2:
Ana - unwnd is scum
S_S - unwnd is scum
Dunn - unwnd is scum
Lukewarm - unwnd is scum
Catboi - unwnd is scum
Infinity - unwnd is town (lol)
You - unwnd is?
Ydra - unwnd is scum

See the difference?

[Lukewarm]

Can we all collectively blame Ana for the loss at the keep?

No? Infinity was the one who misvoted, not Ana

I am pretty sure we lost the keep because of Ana's gambit when she locked in.

Made a whole post about it when it happened

Spoiler:

Actually, it's probably better for Ana to pick who she wants in the final slot? If she's in fact wanting to vote someone other than herself it should be someone she's confident in.

Okay, I ran through all of the possibilities if we now commit to this plan - Ana choses the 3rd player to enter the Keep, and commits to voting which ever of the two is left with her in the Keep after the switch (and if she tries to back out, we all assume she is scum claiming) - to see how it would play out.

Like I considered all of the combinations of Briar, Ana, and Ana's 3rd choice being town/scum

Spoiler: If Briar is [color=#00BF00

town[/color]

and Ana is

town

, and choses another

town

, we win this mini-game, regardless of the swap.
and Ana is

town

, and chooses

scum

, we lose this minigame (Briar is swapped out, Ana votes her 2nd choice, we lose)

and Ana is

scum

, and choses a

town

player, we win this mini-game, regardless of the swap.
and Ana is

scum

, and chooses another

scum

player, we win this mini game (they can't swap out Briar, so we just vote for her)

If Briar is

scum

, I think we now lose this minigame, regardless of Ana's alignment.

and Ana is

town

, they swap Ana's 2nd choice, and we lose this mini game

and Ana is

scum

. This is the strangest one to parse out, but we probably lose??

/spoiler]

My conclusion, is that Ana is almost certainly town, because the scenarios with town!Briar + scum!Ana means scumAna is giving us the win for this minigame.

But I am still incredibly frustrated by her locking herself in without letting the thread talk about it. Because it seems to me, that this minigame now hinges entirely on her being able to have successfully town read 2 different players Day 1. Like she took a lot of agency away from the whole team by making her play.

But even if no one else wants to join me, I just wanted to take a moment and let Ana know I blame her

Anyways. Not a productive conversation. Moving on.

[Something_Smart]

I'm pretty sure absin is gonna ask you where your solve is in the wall I'm just trying to help you out bud

Well Lukewarm has become more town, at least

[unwnd]

I think if I had to make a definitive guess I would say that Ydra knew Ana would just get a point for her team but still wanted to compliment Ana's solve as she became a bit of a leader

[unwnd]

I'm pretty sure absin is gonna ask you where your solve is in the wall I'm just trying to help you out bud

Well Lukewarm has become more town, at least

Great so you don't care the whole game just decided I'm scum as if it were a fucking epiphany

[Something_Smart]

Great so you don't care the whole game just decided I'm scum as if it were a fucking epiphany

I mean I don't care for the same reason I don't care about your read on me.

I think Dunn-scum is probably more likely, at least?

Though I guess I have to wonder about Dunn's whole song and dance about scumclaiming

[absinthe]

D1:
Ana - unwnd is scum
S_S - unwnd is scum
Dunn - unwnd is town
Lukewarm - unwnd is town
Catboi - unwnd is scum
Infinity - don't remember if she gave a read
You - unwnd is scum?
Ydra - unwnd is town

D2:
Ana - unwnd is scum
S_S - unwnd is scum
Dunn - unwnd is scum
Lukewarm - unwnd is scum
Catboi - unwnd is scum
Infinity - unwnd is town (lol)
You - unwnd is?
Ydra - unwnd is scum

See the difference?

I was at ? on Day 1. Can't remember if I posted it, but my tentative day 1 solve was Dunn/Something_Special/infinity, with catboi and you as question marks. That's how I started day 2, also. Being the Night 1 swap-ee/IC should have been a much bigger red flag to me about the Keep.

[unwnd]

What do you think that flip means in lieu of recent information?

[unwnd]

Meaning the swap I guess

I'm still tired and sleeping very poorly

[Lukewarm]

D1:
Ana - unwnd is scum
S_S - unwnd is scum
Dunn - unwnd is town
Lukewarm - unwnd is town
Catboi - unwnd is scum
Infinity - don't remember if she gave a read
You - unwnd is scum?
Ydra - unwnd is town

D2:
Ana - unwnd is scum
S_S - unwnd is scum
Dunn - unwnd is scum
Lukewarm - unwnd is scum
Catboi - unwnd is scum
Infinity - unwnd is town (lol)
You - unwnd is?
Ydra - unwnd is scum

See the difference?

Every time you state that I have a scum read on you makes me want to bang my head against my keyboard. You are not reading my posts.

Spoiler:

I am also getting a town read from unwnd, but maybe I am blinded by the beautiful romance unfolding before my eyes

Please stop talking about the stupid fucking mechanics

I was not trying to talk mechanics... I was trying to talk about his motivation for locking into the wall. To see if I thought the decision was town motivated or scum motivated. Isn't that how you are supposed to play this game?

Before I talked to him, I could only come up with a scum motivation (which was based on mechanics), but once I talked to him, I decided that I can see a potential town motivation.

I have not decided on either of you yet

, but I do feel like that was a productive conversation for us to have.

Please stop talking about the stupid fucking mechanics

I was not trying to talk mechanics... I was trying to talk about his motivation for locking into the wall. To see if I thought the decision was town motivated or scum motivated. Isn't that how you are supposed to play this game?

Before I talked to him, I could only come up with a scum motivation (which was based on mechanics), but once I talked to him, I decided that I can see a potential town motivation.

I have not decided on either of you yet, but I do feel like that was a productive conversation for us to have.

I personally got nothing out of it knowing

1) How dunn is
2) The previous points I just made

Okay... you got nothing from it.

I got myself out of a tunnel.

Before that conversation, I could not understand why town!dunn would have ever made the play that he did, and

therefore had a hard time thinking of him in any way other then 100% scum. Now, I can see a logical reason for town!dunn to have made the play. Now I can step back and examine both of you more clearly.

Seems like a productive time to me.

I agree that it's unfair to you that they are clearing themselves off mech nonsense.

I did not clear him tho?

I was lowkey tunnel thinking about him over quick-locking into the wall, and wanted to get his motivation for that. Once I got a plausible town motivation, I decided that I did not need to assume he is scum. - I was not meaning to make it look like I was basing it off of mech nonsense, because I was really looking for his motivation.

I still see potential scum motivations, but my thoughts on those motivations will almost certainly change based on the flips before we get to a wall vote anyways, so no reason to waste thread spaced debating those as of now.

I had unwnd as a town lean Day 1, so Dunn still has an uphill battle imo

Gate last still feels like common sense to me. If we win the Gate, we likely win the game, and I have very little faith in us winning Wall.

Wait, weren't you saying you think unwnd is scum? And now both Lukewarm and Dunn FOS him? Why would you say you have little faith in us winning there?

Is this a perspective slip?

It is really frustrating reading through the thread, and seeing people repeatedly incorrectly state my reads in the wall when I feel like I have been pretty open about them

Like I have consistently had you as "more likely to be town then Dunn" since like halfway through Day 1, and I cannot figure out why you have repeatedly, and consistently said I have it the other way around, despite me trying to tell you that you were wrong multiple times.

If anything, you doing so is the thing that is making me less sure about my town read on you. Because you doing this is making me feel the same way you made me feel in the newbie game. It is hard to pinpoint how they are the same, but it feels the same. Like you are trying to make me double down.

In that game you took the incomprehensible to me stance of "absinthe is town" (not incomprehensible that they were town, but incomprehensible that you could think that they are town), which put me into the position of saying over and over again that Absinthe must be scum from your PoV, and kept me in the "explaining why absinthe is scum" mindset.

And now in this game, you keep taking the stance "luke thinks I am scum", which puts me into the position of saying over and over against that I have you as my townread.

You literally just witnessed me tunnel on Absinthe in our last game, and so this game I am making a effort to not tunnel and think more about both options. Why would you be surprised that I am trying to take more care on deciding before I lock in on a scum push on either one of you?

[unwnd]

I was only going off what Dunn was saying which was practically you cleared another as town in your mech interactions. That made me lash out a little bit

I apologize

I need to catch up on my sleep as it does make me a bit irrational

[Lukewarm]

I'm pretty sure absin is gonna ask you where your solve is in the wall I'm just trying to help you out bud

Well Lukewarm has become more town, at least

Great so you don't care the whole game just decided I'm scum as if it were a fucking epiphany

Also, I am confused by your reaction here as well. Why do you take "lukewarm has become more town" to mean he thinks you are scum? From your PoV, we should be be able to be town, right?

He even comes back and says

I think Dunn-scum is probably more likely

Why do you keep assuming people are scum reading you?