DEFCON Mafia 5.0: GAME OVER - NEW AMERICA FORMED

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: Robert this is actually kind of an obvious vote now that I think about it

[innocentvillager]

Robert is definitely counterintelligence ftr if there is no cc, prism’s list had it above covert ops

[innocentvillager]

scum Robert is well versed in the minimalist AtE

the cephrir scum take is absurdly confident for how underdeveloped it is

[joqiza]

So you're saying his posts are town, it's fine but waste your time anyway?

Ok I will.

Not at all what I said, I said his posts were fine, aka they didn't strike me one way or another. 3190 is actually quite helpful. Like I think I agree with your take on him after reading the posts you put together and your interpretation.

I'm sitting here wondering why you think I'm wasting your time by asking you to explain stuff like that. Mognet was annoying because he asked people to explain reads that he himself

didn't even disagree with.

Like he'd townread a player and then in the next post ask someone to explain why they weren't chainsawing for that very same player. It was exhausting.

That's not at all what I was doing. I was asking for elaboration on a read that I didn't have myself. Partially this is an investigative thing, cuz I'm wondering if the reason you're seeing the game differently is because you're working with a different level of information than I am. But it's not just that. Mafia is a collaborative process and I was also just wondering if there's something out there I'd missed.

I understand it can be frustrating to explain something you feel to be obvious but it's a part of the game.

[Titus]

You see, that's not how I took it when you said his posts were fine. I start from the position that if there's nothing wrong with a player's posts, they're town because a majority of us are town. Thus when you say someone's posts are fine, to me you're saying they're town.

Thus from my point of view, you were asking me to explain a read you agreed with, which was exactly what Mognet was doing. Mognet was doing it to find something to attack for his ego.

I thought you were doing the same thing which is just exasperating to deal with.

[The Church of Skitter]

I got top 16 at my yugioh tournament

[The Church of Skitter]

the tour had 100+ players
I am very happy with this result

[Titus]

Robert is definitely counterintelligence ftr if there is no cc, prism’s list had it above covert ops

Can you comment on my entity thoughts, j?

[joqiza]

Hm, okay. Yeah for me I think about it in terms of the prior probability, which is like, 75% or so that any given players you look at flips town. So at the start of the game everyone is "null" but in a sense that means they're still more likely to flip town than scum just by #'s, as you said.

Then when I say someone is towny or scummy, what I mean is they've done what I consider to be a towntell (behavior which town does at a greater % than scum) or a scumtell (vice versa), respectively.

So null, or "fine" for me is in a sense, still towny in terms of the prior. I'm more thinking about the posterior probability after tells are considered, and whether it's higher or lower than the prior from rand.

[Titus]

Ignore the quote. I was going to ask how he knew what Prism's list was but forgot it's the same slot.

[joqiza]

Like at the beginning of any given game I play I could say "it's obvious that players A and B are not a scumteam together" and be right 99% of the time just because the chances of picking out an SvS pair are so low. But it doesn't really mean as much you know? Like you could just getting lucky.

I don't want to derail the convo into game theory, I'm just a stats guy so I find it interesting.

[Titus]

I'm not a stats girl. I'm a social psychologist when it comes to mafia. I look at motivations and thus motivation is how you sort me.

(By motivation, I mean what a player does and wants, not their passion level or rationale.)

[joqiza]

@Titus

This series of posts struck me as pretty towny from the Entity slot--these are the ones I was referring to earlier.

He appeals directly to LLD, in a personal manner, to express his read on Mognet. He then appeals to Mognet directly to try to get him to change his behavior.

I really doubt the two are aligned from 2218, and his investment in keeping Mognet alive reads town to me. I don't really buy the theory that Entity is scum trying to keep a toxic town slot alive... I feel like... he wouldn't appeal that way to LLD if that were the case, and I don't think scum would do it in the first place while VFP was being run up.

Honestly I tried to hunt something I thought might be scummier but I can't deal with this shit in this game anymore.

I'm getting a seance from beyond the grave that pooky wants us to kill moogle fucker

vote:Mognet

Lexi there is no way this shit is scum, I'm sorry. If you just wanna YOLOyeet someone to get to nukes then fine but I do not believe Mognet is scum here.

Full disclosure I'm fairly sure Equinox would support a yeet on Mognet so you can appeal to him I guess.

I'm tempted to join the Mognet yeet for the sake of gamestate but I don't think it'll flip scum and I'll be honest the idea of only yeeting scum is v appealing to me after the righteous mastina thing yesterday

I genuinely wish I was still a mod so I could figure out who the fuck Mognet is and be done with it. But whatever.

@Mognet.

You are not helping the town, despite how much you think you are.
Maybe you're scum. On the off-chane you're town, please.
I get where you are. You think you are being the most rational and that your logic is unassailable and therefore you should keep fighting the good fight against all us plebs who aren't willing to accept your gospel.

Here's the thing.
DEFCON has a long history on this site. Your assertion that the majority of people don't want to lolnuke is actually probably very far from the truth. The entire appeal of this brand of games is that you get to lolnuke people. It doesn't matter scum or town. Go read some of these previous games. Not for meta, but for reading the Elmo-Dancing-On-A-Toilet shitshows they become. That's the fun. That's the draw.

Here's the thing.
You're sitting here crying about people picking off "not friends". I don't even know how to begin to break down this site's dynamics, but you're flat out wrong.
LLD got into a death tunnel on me the last DEFCON despite us being "friends".
You're also ENTIRELY basing your overreaction on ONE post from DeathNote against T3? Like what the fuck?

Here's the thing.
In a game like this, people will empty vote and not really give a fuck.
If people were empty voting you without reason, yeah, I'd expect it. But it seems like you're just picking a bone with the empty votes to win some intellectual superiority race that only YOU are running.
Do... do you think the people throwing down empty votes are all unaware that... they're throwing down empty votes?
Or do you think every person that has done it is scum?
Because... at some point, you have to accept that unless literally every person who has transgressed you is scum, that you're throwing some undue shit at townies somewhere, here.

Here's the thing.
You pulled this same kind of wah wah grandstanding bullshit yesterday when we were on the one-way train to scumtown with the mastina wagon.
You completely ignored my well-reasoned case for why mastina was actually scum yesterday and decided to grandstand about autism instead of focusing on the game.
Nobody owes you anything. There are a few of us that will continue to try to win this game regardless of your roadblocks. I happen to believe you're town, but given the gamestate, I would wager there's a surging tide of townspeople who do NOT think your actions are coming from a town mindset.

I'm begging you -- as the king of egomania in many ways, please fucking step back and try to participate rather than be an antagonistic presence in the game.

[joqiza]

I'm not a stats girl. I'm a social psychologist when it comes to mafia. I look at motivations and thus motivation is how you sort me.

(By motivation, I mean what a player does and wants, not their passion level or rationale.)

I can respect/understand that!

[Bell]

I got top 16 at my yugioh tournament

Logging in just to congratulate you at winning at a children’s card game.
I am serious. Every time I’ve entered a card game tournament I get whooped.

[Bell]

I’m a stats guy.
I don’t believe my own eyes and downplay my own experiences. My assumption is that my perspective is flawed and while we are all incredibly sensitive instruments, we think good only relatively well compared to everything else, but reality navigation isn’t something we’re super good at.

[The Church of Skitter]

I got top 16 at my yugioh tournament

Logging in just to congratulate you at winning at a children’s card game.
I am serious. Every time I’ve entered a card game tournament I get whooped.

omg I was so anxious

[The Church of Skitter]

I had a really good meta call which I was super happy with but the whole thing was anxious and stressful it was exciting tho I'm happy
it's my first top at these kind of events and this tournament had strong players so it's a really good result. I'm happy with it (even tho I did commit war crimes with my deck haha)

[Bell]

Meta calls are to my knowledge, the difference between winning and losing if you aren’t absolutely terrible at making combat decisions.
And it’s really hard to make a good call there.

[Bell]

My focus remains on Robert.
I also want to look more closely at DV. He sort of fits a mold of polite scum. But his posts have always given me mixed feelings.

@equinox, hi. Don’t be sorry, you don’t need to know everyone. I didn’t even k ow you played mafia, I just thought you just modded.

[Bell]

But I think just bussing day 2 after a loss of a teammate on day 1. Should pretty explicitly rule me out. So you don’t really need to trust other people on that. It would just be really bad scum play for me to do that to a partner. There was enough voices of doubt that it wouldn’t make sense for me to try to push his elimination through when other options seemed perfectly reasonable.

Though, I suspect, Robert is scum too and the scum team is on the back foot.

[Bell]

I would appreciate it if someone launched a nuke at Robert btw. The more nights there are the more kills scum get.

[joqiza]

I'm willing to submit the kill order if this is something you feel strongly about. I can see him flipping town easily, but I don't think it'll be a big loss. I trust you and I have some measure of faith in your reads after yesterday.

[marry]

hey guys I'm gonna be low-posting/afk until Monday, I'm dog sitting a high maintenance (health wise) dog and they live out in the country so it's very shoddy internet!! I have tried to post this twice now

[Bell]

You should not trust me after a single correct guess. Especially when my reasoning was pretty shallow. I thought his focus was artificially narrow.

But yeah, if you don’t have a better nuke option or if you’d like to wait to for it. But the results of these flips is going to be a mixed bag of answers.