Open 811 - Lovers and Losers (New Game+) [Game Over]

[yessiree]

VC 1.13

With 9 votes, it takes 5 to eliminate

Kerset (3)

- Klick, T-Bone, Bambi Jay

T-Bone (2)

- Bingle, RationalMadman

Vex Vience (1)

- LlamaFluff

Bambi Jay (1)

- Kerset

Bingle (1)

- Vex Vience

Note Voting - Anastasia

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-05-23 22:00:00)

[T-Bone]

Vex was extremely defensive, hostile and tunneling in the early part of this Day Phase.
The only thing that's different is that since then, Vex seems more apathetic.

If Tbone thinks

Vex

is Scum of the Vanillas, does he read the situation of Vex vs Bingle as a bussing drama?

As for Vex, I disagree with your assessment. That's just what it is.

Do you disagree to the lines I said or the first sentence's claim that their vibe isn't totally different?

If you agree to what I said but not to the vibe, why?

Also, please answer the bussing question. I don't think Bingle would have reacted as strongly as he did if it was just for a bus, I genuinely believe scum-Bingle = town-Vex, obviously both can be Town and scum-Vex can be present with town-Bingle, what is the team in your conclusion? At the moment I believe your stated read is Bingle/Kerset-pair + Vex

Also, if you do consider me scummier than Bingle, what makes your scumread on Kerset stronger? In the hypothetical that I am scum, who is my Goon out of the Vanilla claims and why?

I want to understand your thinking.

I don't agree with you saying you think Vex reads the same as the first game. When I responded to Vex in 609, I outlined why I thought Vex was different.

So the rub is, you think Vex is playing the same way and that's why you think they are town. I think they are playing differently, and that could indicate an alignment shift, and I said as much.

For Vex vs. Bingle, Bingle is voting me, no one else besides Vex is voting Bingle. At best this is null because Bingle isn't being voted. I think what Vex does with Kerset will be telling, because if that pair gets eliminated today, it will be via Kerset, not Bingle. So Bingle is a safe vote if they are scum together. So it doesn't do much for me because they've A) not been tested and B) no one has been flipped.

For you vs Bingle I'm just giving my honest assessment individually. People are not scum with every post they make, most posts are NAI. Sorry man, I'm not willing to accept you're too scummy to be scum like several people have. I think you're smart enough, if you did draw scum, to try and play up the way you acted the first game in order to get those town reads. Am I wrong in thinking you are capable of this?

[LlamaFluff]

also, wrt time constraints, why would i lie about that to influence a game of mafia? yes this is my try-hard account, but i’m above trying to use things like that. not to mention i’m relatively certain i have actually mentioned on the site before my irl circumstances since it did lead to me siteflaking at several points. i will not answer anything further on this topic until post-game either, and i will likely only answer it in speakeasy, because i don’t want this to be publicly available unless i make it that.

Im not saying you are lying about that. Im just saying that limited time could result in stalling tactics a bit. Like if I had one hour a day and I am in a better spot in a game if I dont say anything, I wont like about not having time, but might slow pace of play intentionally or just continually promise "its coming" without ever planning to follow through with it. Do you see where I am though in an "its unfair to me to literally be unable to defend myself" approach though? Its one of the biggest reasons I think you are scum, you continue to say you can read Bambi but in absence of a read will vote me, and have never seemed to even make an attempt to read Bambi.

[Kerset]

@llama if everyone/mostly everyone agrees you’re town, i’ll go along with it because it means it’s less effort for me, meaning the time i actually have free to read the game isn’t spent on other things

hey no cheating! It gives you conf!scum instantly, so you don't need to read bambi either

[T-Bone]

I don't need you to give a read on Kerset, you know either way.

I didn't mean to say that I need you to answer for Kerset's play. Like regardless of alignment you know the truth.

I'm explaining what I'm seeing from my perspective cause that's the one I have and I try in general to be open about what I see. And as I explained before I see Kerset picking on activity again, something that scum!Kerset did last game. And I was trying to gauge whether this is something that Kerset does as scum, or is NAI. And from Kerset I didn't get an answer to that gauge.

And so I'm explaining why I think the way I think. And so I partly ask this as a rhetorical device...if I, me, T-Bone am seeing something I can provably associate something as a thing a player did while scum, what reasons are there for me to think this time is different? If scum!Kerset did X in game 1, and Kerset is still doing X in game 2, what evidence in game 2 should I be seeing that makes it NAI instead of scum?

I'm not asking you to answer for him. But if you two are actually the other town pair Bingle, then it's important to me that you understand where I'm coming from, because if I am wrong (which is your contention), then I can't begin to correct my read without some mutual understanding.

OMG AFTER LITANY OF 'WHY KERSET DOESNT ASNWER ME ;_; :_;" ONCE BINGLE ANSWERS FOR ME YOU RELPY WITH "I DONT WANT ANSWERS, I ONLY SHOW MY THOUGHTS"

Nothing is stopping you from answering my questions if you're town. You could, at any time, just answer them. Weren't you the one lecturing me on how it's a townie's job to be easily read and accepted as town? You'd think that you'd try to get me to sort you as town, like Bingle is trying to do if that were the case.

The fact is, the 7 other players in the game can plainly see I'm putting in the effort and you're not.

[RationalMadman]

@RM - Please list all the individual lover slots (not as pairs) as scummiest to most likely to be town.

Tbone>Bingle=?Klick>Kerset

I genuinely rank Bingle equal to Klick. Bingle's entire way of posting feels 100% defensive and reactionary this game, last game he was also kind of that way but with much more spice and good questions to really expose (or try to expose) the other's thought process as being either flawed or something he could townread.

This game, I don't feel remotely interrogated by Bingle despite this game being what Vex/Bambi and Ana/Kerset were to Bingle last game.

On the other hand, Bingle is trying and apart from the one thing you don't want me to bring up, there's been no direct slip of any kind.

Kerset has been constructive as the day progressed, initially Kerset wasn't Towny in my eyes (more null or even leaning scum) but over time, I came to really spot moments where Kerset was asking questions and reacting to things, such as Bambi's vote on them (assuming they/them pronouns) and this made me Townread Kerset the most of the four Lover claims outside my pair.

Klick has been a completely neutral and unreadable individual, I cannot genuinely confirm either way, I would think Klick is scum here because last game when Klick did become active as a genuine Vanilla (I know she's not claiming vanilla, that's not the point, she was Town) she began to really go for the kill with me (though I wasn't Scum, she seemed very keen to get the ball rolling, this game that is not there).

Tbone seems keen to latch onto anything to seem like he's asking a good question. Some of the things he is asking or even saying don't make any sense to me at all. He is saying Vex's vibe is totally different to last game, that Bambi is somehow towny and that Kerset is scum for not answering him on something that I literally saw Kerset try to answer at times but he claims Kerset is avoiding.

[Kerset]

I don't understand you Bone. Your questions are prepared with some presumptions that i tried to eliminate you last time (which wasn't the case, as i said), that i am scum here (which is not the case), that i have the same intentions? methods? (which is not the case). So you ask what should you think under 3 false assumptions??? IDK THINK OVER? what should you do under 3 false assumptions??? IDK OMGUS ME?
It is just too ridiculous

[RationalMadman]

I think you're smart enough, if you did draw scum, to try and play up the way you acted the first game in order to get those town reads. Am I wrong in thinking you are capable of this?

Why would I say no?

This is a very loaded question from so many angles.

I do not present myself as someone who doubts themselves too much, so of course I believe I would play well as Scum and not 'switch up' how I play too much. I also wouldn't 'switch up' how I play as Town too much either.

I did switch up one thing though, which I am surprised nobody has pointed out, I have been very hesitant (until this real life past day) to vote a Lover, that doesn't match my meta last game at all. However, I can justify that if you want.

Your question is obvious with an obvious answer, why would I answer 'no I would play so different and not realise people would Townread me playing similar'. This has some very odd agenda behind it but you could have a corrupt agenda as Town here (potentially) to make me admit something to use against me later (so I don't scumread the agenda itself). What I don't understand is why you asked such an obvious thing that has an added 'hint' to it.

I don't even understand how most people in this cast read others, actually almost all of them potentially. I read people based on 'flow' like how their flow throughout the day phases and general behaviour matches to what I think scum or Town would do. I rarely go solely for specific 'quote and that's scum' unless I think I have spotted a true slip of some kind.

[RationalMadman]

I mean why would I say 'yes you are wrong'*

[LlamaFluff]

@mod

- Are we ever getting last game topics released?

[Kerset]

The fact is, the 7 other players in the game can plainly see I'm putting in the effort and you're not.

We got 9 players in total. Subtract me, you (bc 'other') and we got 7.

so in your mind Bingle and RM agree with you. Ana and Klick are present to praise you. Vex & llama didn't put you in null in their rl

[Kerset]

Although the effort thing gets obsolete thanks to recent events.

[T-Bone]

That is how math works, yes.

[Bambi Jay]

I like how everyone is either: arguing to determine the scum, declaring to be busy or being Bambi. Her uninterested approach in recent pages is such obv scum behavior.

She is not even trying to hide lack of need to solve.

Are you going with the Ration school of thought by saying Bambi isn't doing anything when I clearly am?

How am I disinterested in solving?

[Bingle]

I'm not asking you to answer for him. But if you two are actually the other town pair Bingle, then it's important to me that you understand where I'm coming from, because if I am wrong (which is your contention), then I can't begin to correct my read without some mutual understanding.

I think the thing I would ask in your position (assuming, of course, I was town and had the same assumptions) would be whether poking for content is a reasonable thing to be doing. And I think the answer is an emphatic yes.

Like, Kerset has been poking people to post more content because people haven't been posting enough content to be readable. I feel like that's obvious, although maybe it is less so to someone else. Whether they did last time is immaterial if it's something that needs to be done. Do you think Kers just not interacting with the thread would be more towny? Is there another way you'd expect Kerset to attempt to get more info into the thread as town? Do you think the level of engagement from Klick/Ana/Bambi in particular actually is satisfying?

[RationalMadman]

I like how everyone is either: arguing to determine the scum, declaring to be busy or being Bambi. Her uninterested approach in recent pages is such obv scum behavior.

She is not even trying to hide lack of need to solve.

Are you going with the Ration school of thought by saying Bambi isn't doing anything when I clearly am?

How am I disinterested in solving?

Where is your solving?

Why aren't you voting me if you think I am bullshitting?

[Bambi Jay]

Because I have better people to solve and talk too and if I talk to you directly too much I'll be distracted and focus hard on going after you. Your playstyle doesn't mesh with mine so I'm putting you in the proverbial corner while I talk to others.

My current solve is Bingle/Kerset going then RM/Ana going for the pairs. For the singles it's Vex then Llama but that one seems more likely it's just Vex.

[RationalMadman]

Because I have better people to solve and talk too and if I talk to you directly too much I'll be distracted and focus hard on going after you. Your playstyle doesn't mesh with mine so I'm putting you in the proverbial corner while I talk to others.

My current solve is Bingle/Kerset going then RM/Ana going for the pairs. For the singles it's Vex then Llama but that one seems more likely it's just Vex.

Why are Klick and Tbone town to you? Your 'solve' for singles is a 100% guaranteed 'solve' if you are Town, obviously if you are a real Vanilla Townie then the other 2 claims need to be voted off to guarantee scum would be voted.

[Bambi Jay]

Tbone gels with me and isn't scummy. Call it gut but he's the most townie lover and Klick ain't too bad either. My best memory of Kerset before they go after me was them crying with Ana, who also has went radio silent sadly. I've already made my opinion of Ration known. Bingle is trying extra hard for more time to solve but from my perspective he's trying to delay it so he can make up for Kersets less then stellar scum game so far.

[Anastasia]

Also one thing I missed

@Ana - How confident are you in my ability to play as town?

I'm more interested in reading your motivational dispersion but since it's unlikely people want to go with the idea it's not particularly useful as a method to sort you.

[Anastasia]

Scumread. While Ana is pretty okay, RM is not. If it weren't for lovers I'd probably rank scum to town as Kerset>RM>Bingle>Ana honestly.

Why are you townreading me?

I don't think I've done anything notable this game at all.

[Anastasia]

If anything I felt my game in the previous life was far more townie than the listless unmotivated feelings I have towards the game presently.

[yessiree]

@mod

- Are we ever getting last game topics released?

Not everyone has given their consent to release the topics yet. Check your PMs!

[yessiree]

Klick has requested replacement.

[Kerset]

How am I disinterested in solving?

Ration going against Tbone? Good enough reason for me to trust Tbone on this.

Do you call this solving?