Large Normal 232—Sibyl's Elegy [GAME OVER]

[Marky Mark]

well, t3 would have never been lynched without andre's tireless yelling that t3 was scum. but I don't think that's true and its kinda condensing to argue that we need andre to show us the way b/c we all can't play or some shit.

This is ATE

[Marky Mark]

It was late D1, people were trying to find a consensus and were moving votes around accordingly.

[Marky Mark]

Fwiw if Vasex continues to just lowkey discredit/flame me I'm just gonna lock my vote on him for D2 and not engage with him.

[Marky Mark]

@Nero It's not though is it? I've already highlighted the key post where Andres shone a bright light back on T3 after others had moved away. Like yeah I see where you're trying to come from ref others had already SRed that slot, but at that point in time, people were not considering it as a serious D1 lim option.

--pedit @Vasex I mean he pushed T3 and then T3 got limmed so I'd call that serious danger

[Marky Mark]

I mean ofc I could be wrong and Andres could be a deepwolf but ockham's razor says he is just town who pushed (correctly) a slot that looked scummy.

[Marky Mark]

Right, I'm taking a break for a bit. We are going round in circles here.

[Marky Mark]

it doesnt make sense for u to think nero is mafia but not xp

I went back to pages 120-121 and yeah you're right, it's not a great look for XP.

[Marky Mark]

VOTE: Nero Cain

I would prefer Vasex for their blatant openwolfing, but I am being pragmatic

[Marky Mark]

VOTE: Nero Cain

I would prefer Vasex for their blatant openwolfing, but I am being pragmatic

I’m beginning to think that the best execution for today is Vasex actually. Above Nero, Cabd, or STD. What do you think?

I mean Vasex was already looking very scummy late d1 pre-T3 flip and is looking scummier still now. I would elim in a heartbeat.

[Marky Mark]

Yeah, let's not have another flash wagon

[Marky Mark]

I was out and about during the day on Sunday and then checked in during the evening only to find that an elim had been rushed through without even giving std the chance to claim etc

[Marky Mark]

NDMath/Nero/Ana were all anti T3 lim D1 and on a town elim D2. This is a good place to start. Yes, it is a simplification to say that play x was on wagon y therefore they are alignment z, but ultimately at a fundamental level, scum have to get miselims and protect their own, at least to some extent

VOTE: Nero

[Marky Mark]

I don't think the XP lim is terrible here, but I think a nero lim is better and would also be quite telling ref XP's slot too.

[Marky Mark]

Tbqh, I've been struggling to keep up with the pace of the game, but I'll try to make time to go back in the light of the multiple flips overnight and re-read ISOs

[Marky Mark]

In other news, I am still down with a vasex wagon and him pushing town yesterday only makes me want this more. Objectively, he's defended a maf PR d1 until their elim was looking unavoidable and then pushed town d2.

[Marky Mark]

a nero lim is better and would also be quite telling ref XP's slot too.

Could you expand a bit on that?

We're talking big strokes here but there was a decent amount of friction between xp/nero during d2 particularly in terms of xp pushing nero. If one of the two is scum, I think nero is more likely.

[Marky Mark]

Reads:
Hard town: Marky Mark, Rathe
Town: Nero Cain
Lean town: NDMath, WindowsXP, dcl,

Anya

, DeathNote
Null: Vasex,

Kerset

, samantha,

STD

, DGB,

Dunnstral

, Arte, Andres
Lean scum: Enchant, Cabd
Scum: KittyTacky,

Etine

Most of my null reads are basically people who haven't donr anything.

I don't think T3's scumplay was massively nuanced and I'm willing to bet that he would have tried to sneak one of his buddies into his townreads. I'm town (obvs you can't know this for sure) and Rathe has been on the money so far in terms of reading the game so I think Nero is the likely candidate here.

I also wouldn't be shocked if there was 1+ scum in the lean town bracket (ie NDMath)

[Marky Mark]

I'm very much on the same page as Andres rn, except that I would tentatively extend his pool of Nero/Vasex/NDMath to include Ana too. Honestly, NDMath would be an equally good place to start as the ISO involves a lot of him pushing towny slots and being on the wrong side of flips

[Marky Mark]

I'm very much on the same page as Andres rn, except that I would tentatively extend his pool of Nero/Vasex/NDMath to include Ana too. Honestly, NDMath would be an equally good place to start as the ISO involves a lot of him pushing towny slots and being on the wrong side of flips

[Marky Mark]

Ultimately, the biggest thing we've got to go off imho is the red flip d1. Who fought hard against this? A few people. Maaaybe XP's argument of not flipping a claimed investigative on principle can be bought if one holds their nose enough. What I really struggle to believe is someone yelling for the death of one claimed cop (kitty) while hard defending another until it was clear they were gonna get elimed regardless (T3)

VOTE: Vasex

[Marky Mark]

Disclaimer: I have had a few beers at the pub tonight so things feel like they are making a lot of sense rn

[Marky Mark]

Reads:
Hard town: Marky Mark,

Rathe

Town: Nero Cain
Lean town: NDMath, WindowsXP, bloodhail,

Anya

,

Almost50

Null: Vasex,

Kerset

,

samantha

,

STD

,

DGB

,

Dunnstral

, Anastasia, Andres
Lean scum:

Enchant

, Cabd
Scum:

KittyTacky

,

Etine

Most of my null reads are basically people who haven't donr anything.

I don't think T3's scumplay was massively nuanced and I'm willing to bet that he would have tried to sneak one of his buddies into his townreads.

I edited it with what I think are safe assumptions

also, I don't think t3 or any mafia would leave a teammate bare in their list like nero cain is; they'd try to obfuscate a bit by listing more than just 1 name

I mean that a very arbitrary assumption to make ref bare entries in the list

Andres/Rathe/Kitty/Dgb feel very clean to me rn, as a combination of known scum pushing them and, by association, kitty's clear of DGB
You/Enchant feel cleanish

[Marky Mark]

Any particular reason you are TRing A50 here Sam? I was findin git hard to get a read on that slot. Like I think its mildly weird to TR him here more than Andres.

[Marky Mark]

I'm really hoping that Etine redeemed themselves by realising they were a prime NK target and taking Dunn down with them, but I suspect Andres is right

[Marky Mark]

@Sam I mean this is a completely subjective argument but I still don't see how any of that stops them putting a teammate as a single entry in a list

[Marky Mark]

ok then, come join me on Vasex. As explained above, they went out of their way to defend T3, while tunneling Kitty, who now seems very town due to flips etc

[Marky Mark]

Coward.

[Marky Mark]

Sorry that's unfair, you seem like a nice person, but I do think we are collectively letting him get away with openwolfing and it's v frustrating

[Marky Mark]

Any particular reason you are TRing A50 here Sam? I was findin git hard to get a read on that slot. Like I think its mildly weird to TR him here more than Andres.

Can you read? Like, you were in the game when I declared Dunn 100% Scum and pushed him over anyone else and stayed the course. Did you miss that?

I mean a lot of things happened in D2 in a very short period of time and I also have a job etc so wind your neck in mate

[Marky Mark]

but push on Andre is logically sound, Mark just knew it was wrong and when presented with evidence for why it makes sense (well at least to me) he just stuck his fingers in his ears.

Please tell me more about how defending someone who helped us to take down a maf PR d1 makes me scum.

[Marky Mark]

but push on Andre is logically sound, Mark just knew it was wrong and when presented with evidence for why it makes sense (well at least to me) he just stuck his fingers in his ears.

Please tell me more about how defending someone who helped us to take down a maf PR d1 makes me scum.

[Marky Mark]

Anyways, I'm going to bed. Nero can shade me all he wants but track records speak for themselves.

[Marky Mark]

Rathe's 878 was really weird and seemed to be suggesting Vasex thought Kitty was a Mafia cop, which was a really random/weird conclusion to arrive at. IGMEOY Rathe

i know this is old but can u explain what u meant by random n weird

Well rather than a more general question to Vasex like "why are you still voting KittyTacky after they've claimed?" you specifically asked them if it was because they thought that Kitty could be a Mafia Cop. This just seemed to be a very specific conclusion to ask about and the Mafia Cop thing seemed to come out of nowhere - if I'm trying to sort a slot I would tend towards asking them reasonably general questions so that I am not steering their answers.

[Marky Mark]

I still want to trust my townread on vasex but it does seem less likely now.

Enlighten me on why you still are TRing Vasex to an extent given his record of defending T3 for most of D1 and then pushing a miselim wagon D2?

[Marky Mark]

Math's reads are also pretty consensusy in that post, which was something that scum!them was guility of in the Bending mini

[Marky Mark]

I'm not particularly gifted at role mechanics, but I reckon it would be worth the neighbour coming forward. Yes, we could get potentially more info if we wait but there is a good likelihood (not 100% as others have said) that they will be town and this could shed light on wagons today and help us to avoid potential miselims.

[Marky Mark]

1.) Can people not voting (looking at you here NDMath) commit to a vote or at least declare intent if doing so would put a wagon over the line
2.) I'd take XP as a compromise lim at the end of the day but I think we can do better. There's a few of us who have voiced SRing at least some of Nero/NDMath/Vasex/Ana, so let's try and find some common ground. I'll kick things off by consolidating with Andres onto Nero

VOTE: Nero

--pedit @ Enchant, Dunn's neighbour is not known and hasn't come forward yet

[Marky Mark]

I mean.... there's already a "scum shoot here" clear list with multiple names on it... expanding the pool of names isn't bad even if they were hard clears (which they are not, nothing stops a (traitor-groupscum-town) type of hood.

This.

[Marky Mark]

Also the fact that Nero is fighting against the neighbour coming out just makes me want it more.

[Marky Mark]

I need to ponder this but UNVOTE: for now as nero is probably only scum if Rathe is too and that seems like a tinfoil even by my standards

[Marky Mark]

maybe on second thought we shouldn't have massclaimed yet and junked dunked koba today and figured out kobas buddies tomorrow (although I think its just CABD and Mark) but we've already started so w/e

So I was probably wrong on your slot. I've otherwise been right so far. Please feel free to tell me more about why I'm scum tho

[Marky Mark]

as far as vasex n ndmath i have read their isos many times n i would be surprised if they r mafia

I'm not sure we are playing the same game here. Did you not see Vasex's defence of T3 and hardpush of Kitty D1 and some of the stuff he came up with like how he voted Cabd to stop people voting Cabd? NDMath is little better - as I've already explained.

[Marky Mark]

maybe marky mark if he lied about miller

They were also encouraging what appears like a shit solve from my end today. So there’s that too.

Lol what?

The inherent logic in my solve is sound. At the most basic level Nero was against the scum PR wagon D1 and on the miselim D2. Please tell me more about how they are functionally different to scum in terms of their actions.

[Marky Mark]

There's just been a fair bit of abrasiveness in this game and we seem to be looking past the obvious clues ie ppl defending a maf PR D1

[Marky Mark]

I'm not gonna vote XP rn until we collectively are happy that we are good to go to avoid lolhammers etc. I still actually would prefer an NDMath or Vasex elim, just in terms of their objective play.

[Marky Mark]

I'm calling it a night. Perhaps I'm just being tired and grouchy, Take care all.

--pedit yep, can confirm still a miller

[Marky Mark]

I'm not sure we are playing the same game here. Did you not see Vasex's defence of T3 and hardpush of Kitty D1 and some of the stuff he came up with like how he voted Cabd to stop people voting Cabd?

i think using the defense of T3 as a case now is pointless

n u rly dont see any of that coming from just a enthusiastic town seems too easy to me

Thought this deserved a slightly longer reply than a pedit.

Like maaaaybe if a slot was defending T3 on the principle of being a claimed PR, but Vasex was not (see their case on kitty). There was real friction in getting the T3 wagon through and I honestly think it's probably one of the best clues we have to go off.

[Marky Mark]

There's just been a fair bit of abrasiveness in this game and we seem to be looking past the obvious clues ie ppl defending a maf PR D1

town defend mafia sometimes without knowing y is that ur thought as well

Yeah sometimes, like many things in this game its a game of probabilities. At the most basic level scum are more likely to defend scum and push town then town are, so that's the logical foundation to build on when scumhunting.

[Marky Mark]

An XP claim would be good now that the massclaim is semi-out anyways.

@Rathe dw you can laugh at how wrong I was afterwards if I'm mistaken. Why was it not my thought as well, well obviously I know it is a *possibility* but you have to think about the most likely explanation.

[Marky Mark]

vasex pushed multiple slots on day 1 n then backed off

And the one noteable slot that he didn't push in earnest until it looked like it was gonna go through anyway was the mafia PR

That's kinda the whole picture. It's not so much who he was pushing as who he was very noticeably avoiding pushing for most of the day.

[Marky Mark]

Now I'm actually going to bed, apologies if my tone was a bit terse earlier :S You're all a good bunch and it's just a game at the end of the day. I'm not a fan of rushing days but if there's clear consensus tomorrow IRL that we are ready to move on them I am ok with an XP vote, altho still not my preferred option.

[Marky Mark]

VOTE: Vasex is a good place to start.

NDMath also looking v scummy IMO - I wouldn't be massively surprised if there were multiple scum off-wagon yesterday.

[Marky Mark]

I mean it's already been said but DGB voting Nero would imply them thinking that they were a Mafia Doctor neighbour which is a bit eh, but at the same time DGB is v likely town due to kitty being v likely town with an inno on them. I'll save the scum!nero tinfoil for if we are really late in the game and still can't find scum though

[Marky Mark]

ugh
im not mafia, im vt
i understand my situation with few serious mistakes - i thought xp and std are scums; and i helped mafia t3 much on the first day, thinking he is town; maybe i have more mistakes idk
i understand that im an easy target now
i almost didnt read the previous day, and right now i'll try to read this day
then maybe i'll read the previous day too

this is so stupid explanation but i had too much work on this week and other game, and im still playing it right now

I disagree with Andres in that I don't think this is towny. I do want to keep an open mind though and I'd be interested to hear what Vasex has in terms of a solve for the current gamestate.

[Marky Mark]

My mind would have to be changed significantly tho to vote outside Vasex/NDMath today

[Marky Mark]

I disagree with Andres in that I don't think this is towny. I do want to keep an open mind though and I'd be interested to hear what Vasex has in terms of a solve for the current gamestate.

If I’m in Vasex’s situation and I’m Scum, I probably would have gone down by pushing someone hard or really filling up the thread with unreadable content. This admission that they’ve made serious mistakes? It’s not what I expected given how Vasex has behaved in the game if they were Scum. It could be a ploy of course everything can be. But I do think it’s Town positive frankly.

I just think town!him there opens with some kind of theory or direction in terms of finding scum, rather than an entire post trying to win the town over

[Marky Mark]

i feel smth wrong with Almost50, Andresvmb and maybe Enchant, but im tired to look for reasons and with distancing reasons can be very stupid

The first two of those three are very town rn IMO, so interesting choice

[Marky Mark]

What about NDMath Vasex? Do you reckon they are scum?

[Marky Mark]

VOTE: Cabd

me searching this post for a reason why markymark is colored green

While I've been TRed a decent amount this game, I'm not conftown from anyone else's POV rn - TMI slip from NDMath?

[Marky Mark]

Also town being on a wagon does not make that person scum - esp when they were a LHF choice. This is why red flips are inherently worth so much more than green flips and why I've been so keen to push those who defended T3 d1.

[Marky Mark]

VOTE: NDMath

[Marky Mark]

why I've been so keen to push those who defended T3 d1.

but two of the people that defended t3 are town so.... isn't it a bit simplified that you are "the people that defended t3 are scum!"

Of course there is more nuance than that. "The people who defended T3 d1 have a greater likelihood than average of being scum" would be more accurate

In particular given cabd was LHF due to inactivity, what I am trying to get across is that it is inherently scummier for a slot to actively defend T3 after all the stuff they pulled like the bp fakeclaim then it is to have voted a low-info slot

[Marky Mark]

Furthermore, it is esp those who have defended T3 in an way that is inconsistent with their other play that really ping me

ie XP avoind T3 lim on policy due to PR claim is less iffy than Vasex going hard after kitty but defending T3

[Marky Mark]

Early warning that I shall be V/LA Tue-Fri this week. Keen to hear more from NDMath.

[Marky Mark]

Given your solve, cabd, why aren't you voting ?

[Marky Mark]

Who has claimed vanilla cop? I'm wading back through the game trying to find it

[Marky Mark]

Save The Dragons

[6]

- Kerset, bloodhail, Anastasia, Dunnstral, NDMath, Vasex
Dunnstral

[5]

- Rathe, samantha97, Save The Dragons, Almost50, DGB

On my travels I did find this though, which is illuminating as a key turning point towards the miselim d2. The Dunn wagon is feeling prettty clean rn

[Marky Mark]

Why won't you elim cabd?
He has only 1 idea - to elim you. The whole game
Is it so towny for you?

So vasex goes full 360 from his usual self of yelling for people's elims to being humble and saying he's just gonna follow other people's reads for a couple of posts back to trying to push people into making elims. I'm seriously considering swinging my vote back there from NDMath

[Marky Mark]

More generally, cabd and ndmath are both p guilty of just popping in as and when they need to, would be great to hear more from both slots and would make it easier to sort them

[Marky Mark]

I do think that's a valid point, but I just think it is outweighed by the scumminess of certain other slots rn. Cabd would be a bit of a coin flip if we went after him as it is a lowish info slot

--pedit potentially, altho rn I reckon Vasex/NDMath >> Anna >> Cabd in terms of scumminess

[Marky Mark]

Mark, i was lushing std my 99% scum from the beginning of the second day. Remember my first post in that day. Analysis of t3 actions and around him, big post. There i had scums std 99% and xp and anya. So i was pushing std the whole day, it doesnt matter when i voted

I mean if you're sucm in this game, you are not afraid to openwolf, given the ferocity of your push on Kitty d1, so wagon position is not super relevant in this particular case

[Marky Mark]

yeah keen to hear more from A50/Andres

[Marky Mark]

VOTECOUNT 4.5
Cabd [4] - Almost50, NDMath, KittyTacky, Nero Cain
NDMath [4] - Marky Mark, Anastasia, Cabd, Vasex
Anastasia [2] - Andresvmb, samantha97

Feelsbad when the other people voting the same way as you are 2 of your SRs and a null

I am either very wrong in my read of ndmath or the scum have agreed in their PR that they are going to bus him today for cred

[Marky Mark]

Vasex isn't particularly scummy to me because his push on me day 1 was so hard that he would definitely have a target on his back if he succeeded. I don't see scum making such a rash play.

Good scum aren't afraid to openwolf sometimes. As long as you are brash enough, one can get away with it. DKoba/XP has pulled this off really well before as scum.

[Marky Mark]

I sent fruit to samantha. Clearly they didn’t get it. I don’t know that I necessarily mistrust samantha’s claim - I just think that now that I’m outted, I was never going to have a chance to complete a visit. It is what it is.

At first, you had my curiosity. Now, you have my attention.

[Marky Mark]

@Andres: It's a clichéd phrase, mild irony was attempted. Essentially your claim in and of itself was mildly interesting, but the fact that you sent fruit to someone and they did not acknowledge it is even more interesting.

[Marky Mark]

Obviously, it's not a great look for Samantha

[Marky Mark]

Here's high possibility of 1 mafia in Samantha/Andre/Kitty. So we need vote one of them. Forget about Math.

I will decide who first later, i need read ISO and i don't have will to do it right now.

"Lets forget about a v scummy slot to try and hit a 1 out of 3 chance" (yes, in theory there could be 2+ maf in that group, but it seems unlikely)

Presumably we can at least verify that Andres is a fruit vendor by asking them to send fruit to a VT who is reasonably widely TRed like DGB tonight. I definitely agree that this is something we need to unpick in order to win the game, but rn it feels like there are ways we could gain more info.

I personally reckon that kitty is v likely to be town as me being miller would be weird setup design wise without any town cops, even given the mafia cop angle.

[Marky Mark]

Anyways, I am now V/LA till Friday, so expect limited input from me. Take care all

[Marky Mark]

Good evening all, I am home from my holiday (vacation for all you US English speakers). I will skim read tomorrow and try and get caught up on developments but feel free to share any key points with me.

[Marky Mark]

In particular, I've checked the flips from yesterday/last night and if anyone has found any info on crumbs left by DGB as to her targets then I would be interested to see that

[Marky Mark]

I've skimmed the last 20 pages to get a rough idea of what happened in my absence. As a general note, I did make it pretty clear in advance that I was going to be V/LA this week, so between that, the MOD notes to this effect in the votecounts and the V/LA tag I had on my profile, things like

The latter. It's why I'm still voting myself.

Marky's vanishing is indeed a terrible sign for him, Nero.

are a little cheap. Clearly the fact that I was on holiday in the middle of the countryside with no PC make me scum.

[Marky Mark]

Taking the game at face value (still wrapping my head around the mech implications), Vasex is slot that sticks out as the most obviously scummy

-Defended T3 for vast majority of D1 until wagon was looking v likely to go through anyways
-Then tried to cash in on the fact that he was on the final wagon for towncred in VOTE: 5775
-Been on every miselim
-The false bravado he sometimes pulls just feels v scummy tone-wise. We saw this D1 with him asking if there was any mech to elim both Kitty and T3. We've seen it again today where he asked if there was any mech to lock his vote on Ana.

VOTE: Vasex

[Marky Mark]

Ah, whoops, I must have used vote tags rather than post tags to try and link post 5775

[Marky Mark]

The blood retraction of his result on cabd is in TSTBS territories so I'm not entirely sure what to make of that but I don't massively follow the logic that one of him/andres has to be scum. When I was looking at previous large games to look for evidence of 2x cops, there were plenty of examples of having 2x identical or similar TPRs.

[Marky Mark]

It feels unlikely that BOTH Sam/Enchant are scum (Enchant in particular feels towny) so either Andres scum or there has been some kind of PR interference either from scum or from DGB.

[Marky Mark]

I might have a dig through DGB's posts to try and see if there is anything that might hint at their NA targets.

[Marky Mark]

Incidentally, this thread feels like it is getting increasingly abrasive, which is not cool, so maybe we all (myself included) need to take a step back and try to introduce some more courtesy. You all seem like nice people and its been enjoyable playing together, regardless of alignment or eventual outcome.

[Marky Mark]

@Sam can you help me understand why you think we need to elim Cabd due to them being the counterwagon to NDMath?

I get that counterwagon to scum has a good chance of being town (eg T3 scum implies Enchant town) but I don't see what stops Cabd/NDMath being T/T

[Marky Mark]

I started to skip Mark's post as an absolute garbage

Nice discredit attempt. Try being nice to people

[Marky Mark]

I can't imagine why people wouldn't want to listen to someone who has been behind every town miselim though

[Marky Mark]

but I have to believe that for some reason it's difficult to lynch town 3 separate days + cabd believed he was hammered day 1 + cabd thinks it's normal for there to be 2 cops and 2 vanilla cops

I agree that the fact cabd has survived so much sustained pressure does make the slot feel sus.

Idk, I would have been keener for an elim for him pre his reaction to the bloodhail fake result

[Marky Mark]

It would take a significant amount of persuading to make me look past someone who hard defended a maf PR and has been on every miselim though

[Marky Mark]

I do see the logic here and I agree that cabd hasn't done a great deal of scumhunting. An elim on them here would be ok I think but I'm keen to keep things simple and go after the slot that's been present on every miselim and defended the maf PR

[Marky Mark]

Let's keep this civil peeps, it's supposed to be a game

[Marky Mark]

VOTE: Vasex

He has been involved in every single miselim this game and defended the maf PR. He is openwolfing scum. If you can't see this by this stage in proceedings then how many more miselims do you need him to push through before you are convinced?!

[Marky Mark]

On a semi-related note please can we stop quickhammering wagons and use the time we have to talk things through more thoroughly? We are literally throwing as town by playing out day phases that last like 2 days IRL

[Marky Mark]

VOTE: Vasex

He has been involved in every single miselim this game and defended the maf PR. He is openwolfing scum. If you can't see this by this stage in proceedings then how many more miselims do you need him to push through before you are convinced?!

You need to back me up. If the Scum have been hiding behind Vasex who has obviously been shit we lose.

Yeah, nah. Vasex is obvious scum. His wagon record is a major part of it, but it is also things like the false bravado and his reliance on discrediting and personal attacks when under pressure. We flip him today and then look at you/blood tomorrow with more info and potentially another result from blood.

--pedit thank you mod. Well said sir.

[Marky Mark]

To be super clear, I don't mean we should only elim within Andre/Blood tomorrow, I just mean that will be a good time to deeply scrutinize that facet of the game to develop our reads of those slots in light of the new info.

[Marky Mark]

So please tell me people who are voting blood over vasex how blood is more likely to be scum than the player that defended T3 and has literally been behind Every. Single. Miselim. (bonus points for him also trying to run cabd up on D1)

[Marky Mark]

@Andres, you've made the point yourself - Nero at least has some mech things going in his favour. He would literally have to be a maf doctor neighbour to be scum due to the result on him, which is not impossible but reasonably unlikely.

@Vasex make a case on why I am scum. Me pushing a player who has caused every single miselim and defended maf PR doesn't count btw. Neither does having a 4/1 record on wagons in my favour

[Marky Mark]

you know sides, i dont know sides, you are using it against me

So your logic is that me (mostly) avoiding miseliming townies and you miseliming 4 townies makes me more likely to be scum than you? Pretty compelling stuff tbf.

[Marky Mark]

no chances that you are town

This is a statement, not a logical argument. Try harder please

[Marky Mark]

they arent even hiding it at this point

Then vote them?

[Marky Mark]

i dont need to try harder with such a weak scum team, we have already won here mathematicaly even with eliming me

Let's presume for a millisecond that you're town here to point out how fake this statement is.

If you get miselimmed then town is in ELo. You'd have to be pretty confident that you could nail 3 back to back scum elims to win to make this statement, which given your track record, seems unlikely.

It's another case of the false bravado we've seen all game.

[Marky Mark]

This is good discussion though, so let's not have any quickhammers

[Marky Mark]

andre, btw, samantha is vt and had no fruit

Not a bad point in fairness, although scum RB could frame Andres without too much difficulty, given that they had claimed prior. Will keep my eye on this.

--pedit - Vasex is yet again faced with an argument that he cannot refute and resorts to discrediting rather than logic

[Marky Mark]

I'm gonna go do some exercise and come back with popcorn to read the thread later

[Marky Mark]

i dont need to try harder with such a weak scum team, we have already won here mathematicaly even with eliming me

Let's presume for a millisecond that you're town here to point out how fake this statement is.

If you get miselimmed then town is in ELo. You'd have to be pretty confident that you could nail 3 back to back scum elims to win to make this statement, which given your track record, seems unlikely.

It's another case of the false bravado we've seen all game.

I'm still waiting for Vasex to actually make a coherent case as to why he thinks I am scum

[Marky Mark]

At any rate, it's been fun (kinda). Night all, take care.

[Marky Mark]

Thank you all for a very enjoyable game, and congratulations to the scumteam for your emphatic victory

It was a pleasure to play with all of you, even if it got a bit heated on occasion.

[Marky Mark]

I guess I learnt a good lesson not to assume setup conventions, eg the existence of a town cop if there is a miller, in a normal game. 6 scum felt like a lot for this setup, but I can see how it could have swung the other way if night actions had worked out differently.

I have absolutely 0 regrets about miseliming Vasex - I would elim any player who defended scum PR and led a series of miselims against town again in future games, and I reckon I'd hit scum more often than not. This isn't anything against you as a player, although I did find your discrediting and personal attacks a little bit abrasive on occasion :S

[Marky Mark]

There were lots of people I enjoyed playing with but a particular shout out to DKoba - I feel like we hit things off badly in Bending, but you were entertaining this game and a net positive for the town

[Marky Mark]

Etine protecting the vig really helped us...

Yeah lol, that was less than ideal. What happened with the N1 kill? Cross kill on Anya or did someone try and shoot me?

[Marky Mark]

I'm also still perplexed how we got an inno on Nero from the gunsmith - do Traitors not return as having guns? If so, the gunsmith having 33% chance to get a false negative seems pretty swingy, especially once we thought we had already got the traitor.

None of this is taking anything away from the mafia faction, who would've won by miles anyway thanks to solid dayplay, just mulling over the setup

[Marky Mark]

(33% as in 2 of 6 scum if targeted will return no gun)

[Marky Mark]

Did anyone consider me mafia?

Not massively. Mainly because you were not as good at miseliming townies as many of the actual townies were. As a secondary factor, you being a primary counterwagon to T3 late D1 also gave you townpoints.

[Marky Mark]

It was genuinely interesting reading the maf PT and I'm sure the double traitor setup with neighbours was probably really novel/interesting if you weren't town.

[Marky Mark]

I have a normal game coming soon to the Micro queue once I have a review completed. PM me if you'd be interested in reserving a spot. The game will be a flavour follow-up to this one.

Will there be 3+ traitors, lots of false negative scum for town investigatives to target and a 4 neighbourhoods, each with a scum and a 3p? Asking for a friend