Open 811 - Lovers and Losers (New Game+) [Game Over]

[Kerset]

Okay, different question then. Since YOU know your town, and you know 1 of each a pair and a single are together, let's look at the pairs.

Bambi/Ration
Bambi/Tbone
Llama/Ration

Llama/Tbone

Which makes more sense to ya?

too many factors, i had a thought that bone/vfp sound like being couched by llama but its just a hunch

[yessiree]

VC 2.8

With 8 votes, it takes 5 to eliminate.

LlamaFluff (2)

- Anastasia, Bambi Jay

Bambi Jay (2)

- LlamaFluff, RationalMadman

Note voting - T-Bone, Kerset, Bingle, VFP

Day 2 ends in (expired on 2021-06-02 16:00:00)

[Kerset]

The plan from Bambi is so scum sided, I think I favour Bambi over Llama for it.
T-Bone, think I'm just being Paranoid here or is this reasonable?

I am not sure, my experience says that it is scum, who is always too afraid to say such things. Townies happen to be careless.

[VFP]

The plan from Bambi is so scum sided, I think I favour Bambi over Llama for it.
T-Bone, think I'm just being Paranoid here or is this reasonable?

Why does scum Bambi suggest it?

To win?

[Kerset]

Okay I am done. Everyone vote Bambi.

Bambi has actively refused to answer a direct question repeatedly.

I also disliked it, so i will lend you a hand here.

(expired on 2021-05-29 20:00:00)

Here is a timer after which i will vote.

[Bambi Jay]

If I was scum I wouldn't agree to change my plan just to make Kerset feel better about literally trying to confirm them as town. Unlike Llama I'm actually TRYING to solve a town pair to help everyone.

VFP and Tbone... I've been kinda following ya but if you follow the plan Kerset suggested of each voting 1 of me and Llama so neither the ration pair nor the Tbone pair can hammer, then we're almost there and from your perspective you confirm Kerset and Bingle is town and know Ana and Ration is scum.

We win if we confirm 1 town pair and I know Kerset and Bingle won't let Tbone and VFP be the ones not voting. If we confirm Kerset and Bingle we win.

If you wanna argue me being teamed with Kerset and Bingle go at it but I'm literally only doing this as a form of trust. Logic only goes so far if we don't do something. I just want to actually solve this and I'm betting the game now cuz Ration acted to quick and Ana has been too passive.

All in on those 2 and Llama being the team. I don't know what else to do to prove it to you.

[Bambi Jay]

Okay I am done. Everyone vote Bambi.

Bambi has actively refused to answer a direct question repeatedly.

I also disliked it, so i will lend you a hand here.

(expired on 2021-05-29 20:00:00)

Here is a timer after which i will vote.

What question from Ration is so important that this has to be asked? Now that I'm positive he's evil I'm ignoring him mostly. I just need to talk with you and Bingle.

[Bingle]

The plan from Bambi is so scum sided, I think I favour Bambi over Llama for it.
T-Bone, think I'm just being Paranoid here or is this reasonable?

Why does scum Bambi suggest it?

To win?

The premise being Bambi sees the glaring flaw in the plan and assumes all 5 town players will miss it? Or that this is a wifom play to set up Bambi’s partners to endgame?

[Bambi Jay]

Kerset's suggestion would indeed conftown us with no risk of anyone else being able to hammer, but I don't know why anyone would actually agree to that since if you're townreading us to the extent of being willing to go through with that plan then you've functionally conftowned us anyways and it's just a useless gesture.

To prove your town to Tbone and VFP. Along with literally just trying to show I'm solving the game and not just repeating "yeah Bambi Evil I don't care to solve her partners yet". I can't do much more then throw suggestions and hope smarter people can fix em. Since Kerset pointed it out that my plan was appearantly more scumsided then I thought from a non me perspective I will change it to that plan.

[VFP]

Well it would be 33% from Bambi's PoV.
From 1 pair being, you know... scum.

Not really. It's actually substantially more than that or substantially less than that from TownBambi's PoV. If you're talking from a position where she has already lost any game with RM/Ana scum it's a safe move for specifically her. If you're talking from a PoV of uninformed VT it's the case where either you or us are scum with Llama, which would be 66% of the time.

Kerset's suggestion would indeed conftown us with no risk of anyone else being able to hammer, but I don't know why anyone would actually agree to that since if you're townreading us to the extent of being willing to go through with that plan then you've functionally conftowned us anyways and it's just a useless gesture.

No, if RM and Ana are scum with Bambi then me and T-Bone voting Llama with Bambi means RM and Ana do too.
And since we're not confirmed to Bambi, same if me and T-Bone are scum with Llama.

And I get that scum Bambi doesn't directly come into the % here so I guess I was wrong on Bambi's PoV, but rather my PoV of Bambi's PoV is 33% chance of scum hammering.
And from my PoV Llama town puts it to 50% scum hammer, with a realistic 100% loss.

You're all making it sound like the only risk is if you and Kerset are scum?

[Anastasia]

this plan is stupid because VFP/T-Bone can just vote to quick-elim Bambi and the game would be over.

[Bingle]

Did you ignore the point where you specifically stated you were considering Town Bambi's PoV and I responded in kind? Cause it seems like you did.

Kerset's suggestion would only have a drawback if we were scum, yes. That is factually true. It's also a moot point because in a situation where it's viable we're already locktown and nothing is really gained.

[Bingle]

To prove your town to Tbone and VFP.

Yeah... But the plan to prove we're town to Tbone and VFP relies on TBone and VFP trusting us enough to treat us as confirmed town, and is therefore useless.

[Bingle]

We win if we confirm 1 town pair and I know Kerset and Bingle won't let Tbone and VFP be the ones not voting. If we confirm Kerset and Bingle we win.

No?

We win if we correctly solve BOTH 2v1s. Even if I become conftown here (And thus Tbone and RM's alignments become a moo point) we STILL have to solve you LF.

[Anastasia]

its functionally worse to conftown someone by risking instant loss since you are skipping over the steps where you can win the game by eliminating the bad guys.

[VFP]

Did you ignore the point where you specifically stated you were considering Town Bambi's PoV and I responded in kind? Cause it seems like you did.

Kerset's suggestion would only have a drawback if we were scum, yes. That is factually true. It's also a moot point because in a situation where it's viable we're already locktown and nothing is really gained.

I didn't say town Bambi though?
Did you read what you wanted to read? Cause it seems like you did.

[Bambi Jay]

Do you have a better idea that helps me prove it's Ana and Ration besides finding a way to confirm you instead?

Does town really vote so early AND split their votes the way they did? And obviously it goes without saying, but scum apathy is a thing and Ana literally disappeared and came back to whine about Ration then left and came back with a basic "it's Llama" read without backing it up or even giving a real reason to townread me.

[Anastasia]

I already explained the llama read.

you didnt listen to me yesterday and you're still not listening to me today despite you knowing for sure its llama

I am done talking to you

[VFP]

its functionally worse to conftown someone by risking instant loss since you are skipping over the steps where you can win the game by eliminating the bad guys.

Yeah I agree with this.
Plus we either lose anyway or get a confirmed town to everyone.

[Bambi Jay]

I already explained the llama read.

you didnt listen to me yesterday and you're still not listening to me today despite you knowing for sure its llama

I am done talking to you

I already said I was done talking with Ration too so good enough for me.

[Bingle]

I didn't say town Bambi though?

Bringing percentages in at all implies that the perspective you're examining is town. If Bambi is scum she has perfect information and knows that we're town.

Like, I'm trying to work out what your thought process here is.

How is scumBambi going to win because of this suggestion? This isn't a trick question. I want to see a thought process, not surface level "That's scummy".

[VFP]

I already explained the llama read.

you didnt listen to me yesterday and you're still not listening to me today despite you knowing for sure its llama

I am done talking to you

Is this just extended scum theatre since the RM / Ana scum theatre went stale?

If T-Bone thinks I'm being an idiot with my doubt here I'll reconsider. But it just feels desperate right now.

[LlamaFluff]

Two and Three are WIFOM unless you are actually trying to say that you feel you can accurately tell the difference between town pushing reads and scum faking a read assuming they are going to die and scum faking a read trying to win it right here.

This is entire point of this game.

It is the point of the game. Come tomorrow. Today all it will do is add reason for town to vote me because they think I will vote them tomorrow, or scum to use it as an excuse to vote me for the same reason. Should be at least somewhat obvious I think RM/Ana is the most likely town pair. Zero town read on any other lovers except mild on Bingle.

Again, you also are unable to determine motivations between me/Bambi just based on me actually trying to drive wagons and move things and them just... sheeping most of my reads?

[T-Bone]

The plan from Bambi is so scum sided, I think I favour Bambi over Llama for it.
T-Bone, think I'm just being Paranoid here or is this reasonable?

I don't know I'll give it some thought.

Remember that town!Bambi knows 100% Llama is scum, so I could see the rationalizing to get it done. I made similar rationalizations by saying I don't intend to vote until the other pairs have.

[Kerset]

I saw a marathon of words and I've been gone but from the bit i saw I guess we've been pushing Ration and Ana. It still falls in line with Tbone and VFP being my lockdown pick so there's that.

Only got 1 favor really. I'll obviously vote Ana if y'all don't wanna go along with it but I wanna elim Ration on principal instead and not just getting him on a technicality. It's the same result but voting Ration feels better.

VOTE: Ration

Will probably reread the last 2 pages but frankly nothing on there changed my views at all. I got Smart as the goon from the VTs becuz of Vex, and with Tbone and VFP as town the other 2 are expendable and I think they can convince the other VT (probs Llama) they are the town pair if we're put in Lim or Lose.

You agreed to also vote Ration but what was

your

reasoning at the time.