Open 810 | Aliensitter Needed! | Mafia wins

[GrandpaMo]

You're talking like he's using horoscopes to make his read

that isnt the point nm of what im tryna say.

this is exactly why i scumread bingle --

and this is also where bingle misunderstands me and thinks I am scumreading them based on their inactivity?

look bingle becomes disengaged >>> then questions me regard it and asks me bout HIS META >>> then defends you based on YOUR META.

now it is just resulting in this weird pseudo shit where bingle thinks i am scumreading them based on his meta of low activity level?

but its also how he evolved throughout this specific game and how he NEEDS to townread you because if he scumreads you then guess what?? everything bout the no lim makes no sense.

just think bout it >>> BINGLE SET THIS WHOLE THING UP. Bingle WANTED a no lim on day 3 to come to this exact moment hence why there was so much oppoistion to it. it was to setup his 100% fortified townread on NM and tried to start the townread on mena during day 4 where MENA felt like they were being pocketed. then it leads to day 5, with the person who he townreads is now scumreading them >>> and NM + (ydrasse) can be easily pocketed by Bingle. Im not TO sure bout ydrasse . like I still really really want to hear where bingle stands as well as ydrasse because i dont think ydrasse really gave clear definitions on how it could play out.

but if this is right >>> this would lead possible scum to always be with bingle + and someone who bingle possibly scumreads.

[GrandpaMo]

holy fuck that took the 2 brain cells left i had in this game

[GrandpaMo]

now bingle i am very very open to townreading you and changing my reads!! and i am willing to hear wwhat you have to say --- and this is really where im looking at on how well you take this opposition against you and how it could possibly result in a tvt sitatuion. i am willing to use our full time and discourage any fast lims here. i really really want to solve the game and i could just be blindly tunneling because it could have been setup by mena to be like that -- that is why im willing to change my reads and i encourage everyone to really always change there reads everytime because it would result in a active state and if we want to win as town that is the most optimal thing to garner is push ppl and see if they have scum reactions / result. i still believe that WE can win as town -- i always hate giving up as town and thats why i questioned A50 concession. even tho we have may lost most hope, there is always still the last hope to be gained and i believe in town we can get scum out this day.

[GrandpaMo]

holy fuck that took the 2 brain cells left i had in this game

tl;dr

bingle wanted a no lim on day 3 to set the townreads on you + mena

[GrandpaMo]

also its not even that long, just read ffs im not bout have my cocntext ruined thru tldrs .. its very very important to read always into details especially consideirng its mylo

[GrandpaMo]

Spoiler:

Lukewarm, do you have any non-pokemon related thoughts on any players yet?

Yeah. I am actually suspicious of Bingle making the suggestion for the psych to automatically out a guilty result. Because imo, that seems more likely to out the sitter then to out mafia.

I think that they know that too, because they were in the Open Setup review of the game that the mod linked to in the first post, and there they talked about the Psych having "a fake inno and a fake guilty on a questionable reliability investigative."

So from my PoV, Bingle came out with some anti-town advice, and then said for no one to question them

Let me give you a quick rundown on how Bingle do.

Bingle will argue the optimal strategy for town as he sees it, regardless of his alignment. Bingle is good at mechanics speak. Bingle is very good at mechanics speak. Bingle is widely regarded as among the best at mechanics on site. Bingle has said, specifically, that there are a bunch of things that are mechanically optimal, and that we should not discuss mechanics speak further for the rest of the day.

Either, Bingle is telling the truth that this is a protown maneuver or Bingle is crippling his ability to lean into mechanics speak, setting himself up to be questioned thoroughly on not D1 (historically the day when Bingle wants to be questioned in order to establish himself), and taking a harsh departure from what is a tried and true strategy Bingle has used as both town and scum for literally years to a pretty good result in a lobby that is at least half full of people who know Bingle pretty well.

Feel free to scumread me for it (I in fact enjoy scumreads, they are delicious) but we are done talking mech for D1.

I am actually a little confused how the psychologist role helps us in this set up.

If he can get a "can kill" result on the baby sitter, but gets a "not able to kill" result on the cowardly mafia + any mafia that has already committed a kill, then on day 1 wouldn't a "can kill" result be a 50/50 chance at being the babysitter or mafia. And then starting on Day 2, they will basically be getting "is babysitter" and "is not babysitter" results, right?

That makes me question this advice given by Bingle

Optimal play is for baby to target Allen and Allen to aim for scrum.

We all pseudoclaim a psych inno D2 and maybe later day phases on the basis of how kills pan out.

psych claims immediately if has guilty

I do have to comment on this though:

@Luke:

REGARDLESS OF HIS ALIGNMENT

; you should always treat Bingle's mech talk as gospel. It is accurate and indeed best play for Town. End of discussion.

Note: The above is not limited to this game. It does apply here but is a general rule of the thumb.

I am actually a little confused how the psychologist role helps us in this set up.

If he can get a "can kill" result on the baby sitter, but gets a "not able to kill" result on the cowardly mafia + any mafia that has already committed a kill, then on day 1 wouldn't a "can kill" result be a 50/50 chance at being the babysitter or mafia. And then starting on Day 2, they will basically be getting "is babysitter" and "is not babysitter" results, right?

That makes me question this advice given by Bingle

Optimal play is for baby to target Allen and Allen to aim for scrum.

We all pseudoclaim a psych inno D2 and maybe later day phases on the basis of how kills pan out.

psych claims immediately if has guilty

I do have to comment on this though:

@Luke:

REGARDLESS OF HIS ALIGNMENT

; you should always treat Bingle's mech talk as gospel. It is accurate and indeed best play for Town. End of discussion.

Note: The above is not limited to this game. It does apply here but is a general rule of the thumb.

I have never played a game with Bingle, so I guess I will take your work for it for now. His advice doesn't really come into play until day 2 anyways, so we can talk about it then.

Responding to post 196 without a quote because I hate the way you formatted that. How am I supposed to respond when your entire post is hidden inside of an older quote?

Yeah, it feels like you are not actually reading my posts, and are instead trying to make it fit to this idea you already have in your head. Almost50 had almost no influence on me dropping my scumread on Bingle.

This is why I dropped it:

what is a tried and true strategy Bingle has used as both town and scum for literally years to a pretty good result in a lobby that is at least half full of people who know Bingle pretty well.

Bingle claimed that he has done the same thing in every game he has played for years. I cannot imagine that this is a lie, because it is something that could easily be disproven by anyone willing to look back over his game history or by anyone who has played games with him in the past. I decided to move bingle back to a null read at this point, because I believed him here that it was NAI.

Almost50 chiming in was just an extra little nudge that re-accessing the situation as NAI was the right move.

Why are you lying? You keep saying "Almost50 had almost no influence on me dropping my scumread on Bingle" but you literally reply to that quote and agree with them, what am I suppose to think? (in post 148) That they didn't have influence on you? Of course I will make that claim. Just look at how you acknowledged it; it clearly seemed you were influenced by A50 here.

I quoted the other two quotes to see the chronological order of which these events followed. Bingle said somehting, A50 did too and you come out and reply to A50 acknowledging what Bingle said; idk it seems an influence to me.

Also what does the quote thing have to do with anything? Are you tyring to find petty reasons to seem like "oh scum would do this" you could literally just reply to me and quote under a different color. I needed to reply to everything you had so I can justify my reads and my reasoning. We may disagree or agree, oh well, as long as you understand what I am trying to say and I feel like you aren't right now.

Looking back I feel like this doesn’t look good for mo, and I remember at the time thinking that one of lukewarm/mo was town and the other was scum

Why are you lying?

Okay, I am done interacting with you over this one comment tbh.

I'll say it lay it out one last time before I start hard ignoring this topic: Bingle's claim that he has done it in every game game for years was enough for me to decide that it was NAI. Before I got caught up on the thread,

I also read Almost50's post, which further confirmed it should be NAI.

Bingle made a statement, and that statement would be a dumb lie to tell. I mean if it was a lie, it could have be easily disproven by anyone willing to read his backlog (or by any of the people who have obviously played with him before) and therefore I decided to believe it.

Why should I not have believed his claim that he does that every game? If you are trying to say that it is indicative of me being scum, then you need to explain why town!Luke would not have reacted the exact same way.

Believe me or don't believe me, but I don't know what else there is to say on the matter.

I just saw this ngl. You literally contradicted what you said in the highlighted bold. You said in the earlier post that Almost50 had absoletly NO influence on your confirmation. And guess what you claim literally that it further confirmed it should be NAI. Do you see how why I suspect you could just be spewing lies out of your ass? I was never looking at Bingle's statement being a lie... like I said it's not what happened it is how you interacted with Bingle that was more sus. You keep going by the fact of the content being made. I thought the content was fine; I am not really assessing that. A scum mindset would have the same right now; you are going based of what you said and what bingle said and not looking at the bigger pciture. So literally everything after the bolded is irrelavent info. And I really see that as a way for you as scum to just cover your tracks. Honestly, you saying you don't want to interact with me is also anti town. I think my vote is gonna stay this for now.

VOTE: Lukewarm

Think this also looks bad now that lukewarm has flipped, was a lot harder to judge what was going on in the interaction at the time, but knowing that lukewarm was approaching things in good faith makes this argument look far reachier and too hyperbolic

you need to see the full interaction and how i developed against luke vs luke developing against me .. not just tat specific bit -- it makes sense in full context, esepcially after i backed down towards him and started actually townreading him lol so idk if u misswed that -- but if u still look at the interaction between me and luke at the whole picture and still have concern, please feel free t otell me and i am more willing to explain wassup

[GrandpaMo]

@mena ^

[GrandpaMo]

I do think Lukewarm had a good defense I'll have to think on it.

Ok now here’s what I got for you.

Top 3 Town: Bingle, GrandpaMo, (?)
Top 3 Scum: Lukewarm, Pooky (Soul Read), (?)

specifically pine and man?

Hasn’t Mena posted recently?

specifically pine and man?

Hasn’t Mena posted recently?

man not mena

I do think Lukewarm had a good defense I'll have to think on it.

Ok now here’s what I got for you.

Top 3 Town: Bingle, GrandpaMo, (?)
Top 3 Scum: Lukewarm, Pooky (Soul Read), (?)

are those ur reads?

I do think Lukewarm had a good defense I'll have to think on it.

Ok now here’s what I got for you.

Top 3 Town: Bingle, GrandpaMo, (?)
Top 3 Scum: Lukewarm, Pooky (Soul Read), (?)

are those ur reads?

I said for “you” as in T3.
So no they aren’t mine.

specifically pine and man?

Hasn’t Mena posted recently?

man not mena

Oh damn.
Yeah just looked at player list didn’t even realize ManWithNoName was in this game.
Hasn’t even posted at all.

specifically pine and man?

Hasn’t Mena posted recently?

man not mena

Oh damn.
Yeah just looked at player list didn’t even realize ManWithNoName was in this game.
Hasn’t even posted at all.

yea same, I had to go to player list to check in and realized man didn't even post

Whereas drap/grandpa interactions are more like this^

Which is like... not clearing at all really. It’s just chitchat and doesn’t feel like it’s serious engagement, and I’m not quite sure what gave mo such a strong read on drap as town that he was willing to bat for him as much as he did D1

lol i spent a whole hour analyizing why drap was town in my eyes wit specific posts etc, check back eod of day 1 pls

[GrandpaMo]

Also, contextually, it seems important that at that point in time, lukewarm’s main read and push is on scum

It doesn’t seem mad to me that mo might try the chainsaw defence in response, especially as drap still isn’t under that much pressure at this point. Scumteam probably still saw drap as salvageable and part of trying to do that might have involved undermining lukewarm’s credibility

thats wrong, i started townreading drap more when drap was already in a hot spot with half of ppl scumreading them nd probably atp scum was already on the wagon

[GrandpaMo]

i prolly need to recall in depth the full of events that happened that day -- and give my input/analysis on it when i get back home but to respond to ur thing mena, bout me + bingle being a pair; i think its very unikely that me!scum would bus in lylo especailly when ihave been pushing the narrative of defedning -- then you have bingle who was on the wagon day 1 and me hard defending drap, its just bring u to the question why would scum do that? wifom? i mean thats the only time we are a pair is because of skeptical though and reasoning of wifom; its highly unprobable especia;lly considiering how i have been progressing the game vs bingle and the interactions wit me and bingle vs me and drap with bingle and drap.

[GrandpaMo]

Spoiler:

Lukewarm, do you have any non-pokemon related thoughts on any players yet?

Yeah. I am actually suspicious of Bingle making the suggestion for the psych to automatically out a guilty result. Because imo, that seems more likely to out the sitter then to out mafia.

I think that they know that too, because they were in the Open Setup review of the game that the mod linked to in the first post, and there they talked about the Psych having "a fake inno and a fake guilty on a questionable reliability investigative."

So from my PoV, Bingle came out with some anti-town advice, and then said for no one to question them

Let me give you a quick rundown on how Bingle do.

Bingle will argue the optimal strategy for town as he sees it, regardless of his alignment. Bingle is good at mechanics speak. Bingle is very good at mechanics speak. Bingle is widely regarded as among the best at mechanics on site. Bingle has said, specifically, that there are a bunch of things that are mechanically optimal, and that we should not discuss mechanics speak further for the rest of the day.

Either, Bingle is telling the truth that this is a protown maneuver or Bingle is crippling his ability to lean into mechanics speak, setting himself up to be questioned thoroughly on not D1 (historically the day when Bingle wants to be questioned in order to establish himself), and taking a harsh departure from what is a tried and true strategy Bingle has used as both town and scum for literally years to a pretty good result in a lobby that is at least half full of people who know Bingle pretty well.

Feel free to scumread me for it (I in fact enjoy scumreads, they are delicious) but we are done talking mech for D1.

I am actually a little confused how the psychologist role helps us in this set up.

If he can get a "can kill" result on the baby sitter, but gets a "not able to kill" result on the cowardly mafia + any mafia that has already committed a kill, then on day 1 wouldn't a "can kill" result be a 50/50 chance at being the babysitter or mafia. And then starting on Day 2, they will basically be getting "is babysitter" and "is not babysitter" results, right?

That makes me question this advice given by Bingle

Optimal play is for baby to target Allen and Allen to aim for scrum.

We all pseudoclaim a psych inno D2 and maybe later day phases on the basis of how kills pan out.

psych claims immediately if has guilty

I do have to comment on this though:

@Luke:

REGARDLESS OF HIS ALIGNMENT

; you should always treat Bingle's mech talk as gospel. It is accurate and indeed best play for Town. End of discussion.

Note: The above is not limited to this game. It does apply here but is a general rule of the thumb.

I am actually a little confused how the psychologist role helps us in this set up.

If he can get a "can kill" result on the baby sitter, but gets a "not able to kill" result on the cowardly mafia + any mafia that has already committed a kill, then on day 1 wouldn't a "can kill" result be a 50/50 chance at being the babysitter or mafia. And then starting on Day 2, they will basically be getting "is babysitter" and "is not babysitter" results, right?

That makes me question this advice given by Bingle

Optimal play is for baby to target Allen and Allen to aim for scrum.

We all pseudoclaim a psych inno D2 and maybe later day phases on the basis of how kills pan out.

psych claims immediately if has guilty

I do have to comment on this though:

@Luke:

REGARDLESS OF HIS ALIGNMENT

; you should always treat Bingle's mech talk as gospel. It is accurate and indeed best play for Town. End of discussion.

Note: The above is not limited to this game. It does apply here but is a general rule of the thumb.

I have never played a game with Bingle, so I guess I will take your work for it for now. His advice doesn't really come into play until day 2 anyways, so we can talk about it then.

Responding to post 196 without a quote because I hate the way you formatted that. How am I supposed to respond when your entire post is hidden inside of an older quote?

Yeah, it feels like you are not actually reading my posts, and are instead trying to make it fit to this idea you already have in your head. Almost50 had almost no influence on me dropping my scumread on Bingle.

This is why I dropped it:

what is a tried and true strategy Bingle has used as both town and scum for literally years to a pretty good result in a lobby that is at least half full of people who know Bingle pretty well.

Bingle claimed that he has done the same thing in every game he has played for years. I cannot imagine that this is a lie, because it is something that could easily be disproven by anyone willing to look back over his game history or by anyone who has played games with him in the past. I decided to move bingle back to a null read at this point, because I believed him here that it was NAI.

Almost50 chiming in was just an extra little nudge that re-accessing the situation as NAI was the right move.

Why are you lying? You keep saying "Almost50 had almost no influence on me dropping my scumread on Bingle" but you literally reply to that quote and agree with them, what am I suppose to think? (in post 148) That they didn't have influence on you? Of course I will make that claim. Just look at how you acknowledged it; it clearly seemed you were influenced by A50 here.

I quoted the other two quotes to see the chronological order of which these events followed. Bingle said somehting, A50 did too and you come out and reply to A50 acknowledging what Bingle said; idk it seems an influence to me.

Also what does the quote thing have to do with anything? Are you tyring to find petty reasons to seem like "oh scum would do this" you could literally just reply to me and quote under a different color. I needed to reply to everything you had so I can justify my reads and my reasoning. We may disagree or agree, oh well, as long as you understand what I am trying to say and I feel like you aren't right now.

Looking back I feel like this doesn’t look good for mo, and I remember at the time thinking that one of lukewarm/mo was town and the other was scum

Why are you lying?

Okay, I am done interacting with you over this one comment tbh.

I'll say it lay it out one last time before I start hard ignoring this topic: Bingle's claim that he has done it in every game game for years was enough for me to decide that it was NAI. Before I got caught up on the thread,

I also read Almost50's post, which further confirmed it should be NAI.

Bingle made a statement, and that statement would be a dumb lie to tell. I mean if it was a lie, it could have be easily disproven by anyone willing to read his backlog (or by any of the people who have obviously played with him before) and therefore I decided to believe it.

Why should I not have believed his claim that he does that every game? If you are trying to say that it is indicative of me being scum, then you need to explain why town!Luke would not have reacted the exact same way.

Believe me or don't believe me, but I don't know what else there is to say on the matter.

I just saw this ngl. You literally contradicted what you said in the highlighted bold. You said in the earlier post that Almost50 had absoletly NO influence on your confirmation. And guess what you claim literally that it further confirmed it should be NAI. Do you see how why I suspect you could just be spewing lies out of your ass? I was never looking at Bingle's statement being a lie... like I said it's not what happened it is how you interacted with Bingle that was more sus. You keep going by the fact of the content being made. I thought the content was fine; I am not really assessing that. A scum mindset would have the same right now; you are going based of what you said and what bingle said and not looking at the bigger pciture. So literally everything after the bolded is irrelavent info. And I really see that as a way for you as scum to just cover your tracks. Honestly, you saying you don't want to interact with me is also anti town. I think my vote is gonna stay this for now.

VOTE: Lukewarm

Think this also looks bad now that lukewarm has flipped, was a lot harder to judge what was going on in the interaction at the time, but knowing that lukewarm was approaching things in good faith makes this argument look far reachier and too hyperbolic

you need to see the full interaction and how i developed against luke vs luke developing against me .. not just tat specific bit -- it makes sense in full context, esepcially after i backed down towards him and started actually townreading him lol so idk if u misswed that -- but if u still look at the interaction between me and luke at the whole picture and still have concern, please feel free t otell me and i am more willing to explain wassup

I mean... I did read the whole thing? I’ve been reading through sequentially from page 1, I’m just not commenting on everything

I appreciate the willingness to answer questions (and the desire to defend yourself) but honestly I’m probably not going to engage with you much further while I continue reading, sorry

Effort put into engaging with you today is liable to not help my read on you, and probably will just make me paranoid, so I’d rather trust in trying to assess based on the rest. I also only have a limited amount of time/effort for the game overall, and any time spent chatting with you today takes away from my ability to look back at past days, which is what’s gonna determine my vote

If you’re town, please try to give me the space I need to read and trust that if there are clearing interactions between you and drap that I’ll notice them

yea ofc i understand, the way i play town is i analyze from whatever have been said bout me and comment of that -- even when something sticks out (for example when u paired me and bingle ... eh actually thats nai because i would have done that as both scum nd town)

but yea like i said to bingle , take ur time -- because i am really tryna win and still have the lasatt bit of hope that town needs

[GrandpaMo]

Not hammering

Bingle/ydra?

what there wass a vote on me already?

[GrandpaMo]

why is the vote being on me?? why are we even voting yet??? when we havent even have heard from fucking bingle's analysis that was suppose to happen on tuesday. u see the shit i mean? and now what bout ydrasse? the person who hasnt been there and instead mingling wit mena where ydrasse compleetely deflected my question and still somehow shadow ghosting me. now you have mena' paranoia causing scum to easily pocket u . and u got nm who is being townread for no reason but "meta" even tho he hasnt contributed shit other than hammer on day 1 where 50% of scum do that shit on this website.

[GrandpaMo]

i honestly dont know who scum atp. but atp it could just be nm + bingle for easily defending for wifom and lack of contribution that has shadowed it self all the way thru day 5.


bingle's plan is working...

its all working ... he even got fucking nm to side with him and vote lol... its such a shame that no elim on day 3 caused this to setup this exact playerlist where bingle can easily manipulate.

gg scum.

[GrandpaMo]

also mena, i trust u so , ima just tell u this... scum cant really anticipate hammers especailly when its something that hasnt happen in long time. scum not hammering or even hammering is completely nai at this point. so u rlly shouldnt take account of it being ai.

[GrandpaMo]

I’d be happier if NM had left the vote on (lol when he puts it back and it is ydra/bingle and they just missed the qh) but I think I’m basically happy to consider ydra/bingle cleared which means 1 scum conf within mo/NM

also

somehing i caught on ... if that is the case -- then scum is very also reliable and liable to slow roll but that depends on the context, however i scanned one of ur game and bingle and i saw this exact scene happening lol

[GrandpaMo]

fuck this. u havent done shit and im not gonna lose to u as scum when i have called u out multiple times and still found urself to make excuses / deflections.

we lose oh well -- ur anti town behavior caused this game to be thrown.

VOTE: Bingle

[GrandpaMo]

scum is probably bingle + ydrasse . bingle is trying so hard to even signal to ydrasse . or even could be nm where nm 's scumvote is already on me . i think its not optimal for scum!bingle to instantly vote me there @mena, if he would, it would be kinda obvious...

[GrandpaMo]

i retract that first statement --

i think nm + bingle is the pair.

i think that makes way more sense then ydrasse.

i saw tvt in mena + ydrasse.

bingle shouldn't be voting here as scum.

[GrandpaMo]

Uh

You really should be voting NM if anything...

Playing marathon stuff atm will be around later if game not over lol

i dont want to.. thats the problem....

what do u not understand ? im more certain in scum!bingle >> after bingle, then i further analyze, im just associating bingle + nm as the most likely pair....

[GrandpaMo]

why is the vote being on me?? why are we even voting yet??? when we havent even have heard from fucking bingle's analysis that was suppose to happen on tuesday. u see the shit i mean? and now what bout ydrasse? the person who hasnt been there and instead mingling wit mena where ydrasse compleetely deflected my question and still somehow shadow ghosting me. now you have mena' paranoia causing scum to easily pocket u . and u got nm who is being townread for no reason but "meta" even tho he hasnt contributed shit other than hammer on day 1 where 50% of scum do that shit on this website.

Scum flail

u said that about johnny and u was wrong bout johnny lmao. its no a flail -- if i have reasons.

[GrandpaMo]

Uh

You really should be voting NM if anything...

Playing marathon stuff atm will be around later if game not over lol

i dont want to.. thats the problem....

what do u not understand ? im more certain in scum!bingle >> after bingle, then i further analyze, im just associating bingle + nm as the most likely pair....

but like...

NM has to be confirmed scum to you at this point? how can you possibly be more sure in scum!bingle?

how???

[GrandpaMo]

just because they are voting me that doesnt mean they are confirmed scum.

scum could be still you , ydrasse for all u know.

you could even put me in the perception that i could be scum with nm even if i rolled scum.

[GrandpaMo]

...because any team of me/ydra, ydra/bingle, bingle/me would have hammered you by now and won the game?

STOP RELYZING ON THAT!! that is the most nai and a critical msitake for all i know.

there is circumstances to everything!! look at everything i said about this plsss

[GrandpaMo]

i honestly dont know who scum atp. but atp it could just be nm + bingle for easily defending for wifom and lack of contribution that has shadowed it self all the way thru day 5.


bingle's plan is working...

its all working ... he even got fucking nm to side with him and vote lol... its such a shame that no elim on day 3 caused this to setup this exact playerlist where bingle can easily manipulate.

gg scum.

also mena, i trust u so , ima just tell u this... scum cant really anticipate hammers especailly when its something that hasnt happen in long time. scum not hammering or even hammering is completely nai at this point. so u rlly shouldnt take account of it being ai.

I’d be happier if NM had left the vote on (lol when he puts it back and it is ydra/bingle and they just missed the qh) but I think I’m basically happy to consider ydra/bingle cleared which means 1 scum conf within mo/NM

also

somehing i caught on ... if that is the case -- then scum is very also reliable and liable to slow roll but that depends on the context, however i scanned one of ur game and bingle and i saw this exact scene happening lol

look pls

[GrandpaMo]

okay mo is scum, it's a question of who the partner is

wtf is this?????

are you actually kidding me. we are going throw the game thru the inconsidericacy and actual depth of this town

[GrandpaMo]

wait till i come back till work .. and im willing to explain everything by detail pls.

i will explain how it could still be you and ydrasse.

[GrandpaMo]

ok well

gg scum.

legacy reads: i still think its bingle/nm

[GrandpaMo]

oh wait there isn another day fuck

well town loses . its gonna be my first town loss smh.

i reall fucking gave all this shit and gave my all as a vt

and now scum is on this wagon.

bingle isnt gonna confirm...

wats gonna happen probably slow roll and troll lmao just like he did in that one game lmao


and then finally vote me .

[GrandpaMo]

Vote me then

....


i already voted bingle u dumb cow

[GrandpaMo]

whats the difference between voting between 2 scum???

@mena do u see my point???

[GrandpaMo]

I mean

it can't be

me/ydra
me/NM
me/bingle
ydra/bingle
ydra/NM

atp right? all those teams have had plenty of time to hammer

so the only teams left are

me/mo
bingle/NM
mo/NM

wait is ydra just cleared then lmao

she could have hammered bingle with me or NM

could've hammered mo with bingle or me

wtf is this shit. there is so many fallacies with this.

[GrandpaMo]

I mean

it can't be

me/ydra
me/NM
me/bingle
ydra/bingle
ydra/NM

atp right? all those teams have had plenty of time to hammer

so the only teams left are

me/mo
bingle/NM
mo/NM

wait is ydra just cleared then lmao

she could have hammered bingle with me or NM

could've hammered mo with bingle or me

wtf is this shit. there is so many fallacies with this.

it can def be you + ydra? i have my vote on possible scum that could be paired up with either you or ydra.

Let us assume I am not voting anyone Right now to paint you the picture sweet mena.

We assume that NM is voting me and that happens to be the case.

1/5 on me.

Now... If bingle votes me that will be 2/5 >>> now let us assume scumpair is NM and Bingle and so that is a valid pair. -- (again hence why he isn't voting me!!!)

Now if mena votes that will be 2/5 >>> let us assume scumpair is NM and Mena and so that is a valid pair.

Now if Ydrasse votes that will be 2/5 >>> let us assume scumpair is NM and Ydrasse and so that is a valid pair.

----------------------------------------------------

Let us move over to me voting Bingle just for one second.

Assuming NM is not voting me ATP and complete neutral non biased VC

1/5 on bingle.

Now if mena votes that will be 2/5 >>> let us asusme scumpair is ydrasse and NM and this is valid. Do you really think scum would anticipate something especially when everyone here has been active and can easily unvote or even misrepresent votes?

Now if ydrasse votes that will be 2/5 >>> let us assume scumpair is mena and NM and this is valid.

Now if NM votes that will be 2/5 >>> let us assume scumpair is ydrasse and mena and this is valid.
-------------------

okay hopefully that gives you a general overview of wassup

now

let us assume that both me and Nm are voting here.

I vote Bingle and NM votes Me.

Ydrasse votes me >>> then its 2/5 on me... Mena + Bingle have the hammer. Mena and Bingle do NOT hammer....

This results in Ydrasse + NM as being paired.

Mena votes me >>> then its 2/5 on me... Ydrasse + Bingle have the hammer. Ydrasse and Bingle do NOT hammer...

This results in Mena + NM as being paired.

Bingle votes me >>> then its 2/5 on me... Ydrasse + Mena have the hammer. Ydrasse and mena do Not hammer...

This results in Bingle + NM as being paired.

That's further explanation on what I said ^

-----

Now look at this, you even pin point that it could be me + you.

Now, couldn't it be also Ydrasse / me (if i was scum) since it would have the same effect especially since you have me + bingle as paired here?

and me + you paired?

---------------

So the real pairs should be.

Me/Mena
Me/Ydrasse
Me/Bingle
Me/NM (assuming if scum were to bus me if I was scum)
NM/Mena
NM/Ydrasse
NM/Bingle

------------------------------

This is why I want to go Bingle instead of NM here. Yes they fit in more pairs; but I feel as though it would be smart to combat scum's plan to actually subside the POE.

Bingle >>> NM >>> Ydrasse >>> Mena.

Now that's all objectivity.

We aren't even talking about mafia slow rolling, or even all the other circumstances, on how it could be the other pairs -- This is why I was frustrated earlier on how much I HATE this last lazy tactic of town, it would happen in my older platforms and town would throw just because someone didn't hammer, and they would rely on the hammer meta so much and guess what it would become wrong and town would just throw the game. And it's happening now. The only person who I actually trusted in actually solving this game, is using that specific tactic and it's such a shame. I wish pooky was still alive.

[GrandpaMo]

you two are starting to make me feel like mo is town who had the bizzarest reaction of all time and that you're now both just trolling me

You should see my past games, I have only played like what 5 games? It shouldn't be a long read.

Take a read upon my meta -- see how my town playstyle is there vs here.

See any similarities and differences?

[GrandpaMo]

I still have hope at this town,

Atp if I were scum -- I would have gave up since I literally have all 4 people against me. It wouldn't make sense for me to continue to defend my self as scum. But I will continue because I am still a little bit confused...

[GrandpaMo]

I think you're cleared from the lack of hammers

I think mo is condemned

so it's really just between bingle and NM for me atp

I guess the only other thing is that it *might* still be NM and bingle where N_M (who is very canny) perceived my shifting stance on mo and decided to vote there to capitalise on that before my opinion had become locked in

but that seems unlikely given mo's insistence on not voting conf!scum to him

Again, how is it confirmed scum?

You haven't been able to explain this.

I am confused about this.

[GrandpaMo]

VOTE: Mo

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

LOL !!!

I JUST SAW THIS!!

2/5 !!!

EXACTLY HOW I SAID IT.

Bingle's plan is working.

Bingle + NM are confirmed scum atp.

Hence why Ydrasse and Mena hasn't hammered yet.

2 scum are on me.

And if I WAS scum with Ydrasse and Mena they would be defending me instead of stalling, in the case of NOT voting me.

It all makes sense.

Unless Mena is fucking trolling and fucking around.

But mena if ur scum, just hammer me. Im so eager to fucking know who scum is holy shit.

[GrandpaMo]

I think you're cleared from the lack of hammers

I think mo is condemned

so it's really just between bingle and NM for me atp

I guess the only other thing is that it *might* still be NM and bingle where N_M (who is very canny) perceived my shifting stance on mo and decided to vote there to capitalise on that before my opinion had become locked in

but that seems unlikely given mo's insistence on not voting conf!scum to him

Again, how is it confirmed scum?

You haven't been able to explain this.

I am confused about this.

Like it doesn't matter if I vote you or NM ... like do you not see both them voting me and you both not hammering/ defending?

So that would both take in account for bussing / defending scum if i was scum.

The scumpair is NM and Bingle.

And now since Ydrasse SCUMread me but Bingle has voted before me. They took advantage of that.

And also how mena flipped as well nd bingle took advantage of that because yk u would hammer eventually or either one of you -- hence why NM asked for the TLDR to signal to Bingle.



But even what's crazy is that no one even noticed how NM changed his pair reading for it being to me and ydrasse to it being bingle after ME giving the scumcase on Bingle.

[GrandpaMo]

Gun to my head, Grandpa and Ysrasse?

Why is it mo + ydra ?

I think it's maybe Ydra and Bingle now

Mo and Bingle?

this transition is what i am talking bout.

first to me and ydrasse

then to ydra and bingle

and now to me and bingle

smh.

[GrandpaMo]

Gypyx trying to derail the wagon?!

VOTE: Bingle

lol this quote tho lmfao

[GrandpaMo]

VOTE: gypx

For reel reels though VOTE: gypyx

I can get behind this.
VOTE: gypyx

Now Bingle, got any other early reads?

hmm... i dont think mafia busses the nonencryptor day 1.

if ydrasse would be s/s wit drap

thats why i disagree wit u mena that it could have been bus.

[GrandpaMo]

So through these analytical posts... I don't think mafia goes out in their way to actually give out on what town does. Mafia specifically in this setup where it is their job to figure out PRs does not give PRs help unless its direct manipulation to favor a specific result. However, seeing what Bingle has said, I doubt there is a world where Bingle actually does this as mafia. Looking back at their older games, they seem the same as their townplaystyle. Also their continued aggression and coherent reads are okay, there is some I disagree with however and I will explain later.

Exactly wrong. Scum loves to hide in mechspeak.

Eh this early? I doubt that. I still townread you. You wouldn't be risking that as scum.

Looking at post 41, this is a very towny entrance from Mena and like I said why I townread Mena from early game. Mafia is more inclined to just stay back and let town push and interact members. However, they could be experienced enough to just do that as Mafia. But usually from the games I have played in, this is what I have been through and seen and it is usually right; early pushes (especially the first player) tend to be town. Also something to remark, is that if Drap is scum this is the only reference I see them scum in early game and that is in post 35. I replied to Mena hoping for an answer on this, but no answer sadly.

No.

? This wasn't directed at you anywhere.

Honestly, this is a bad pairing for this reason. I doubt mafia busses day 1 in this setup. Bingle is hard pushing Gypyx and while everyone is pushing Drap, Bingle is staying on with a read that they think Gypyx is scum (look at post 99 where they they say a Gypx BW is more spicy implying wanting it more). This is a weird entrance too but at least its better than lukewarm's enterence. You are still null since you haven't done nothing that scummy right after.

I... What? Dann's read is bad because I pushed Gypyx afterwards? What?

Yes. I don't know where you got that logic of "afterwards" but I stated just how you saw me pairing luke + monkey is a bad pairing. I am obliged to say Dann pairing you and Gypx is bad because of the fact that you were solely pushing Gypx and I doubt mafia would take that chance to bus day 1 when there was already a scum narrative being pushed against Drap. I thought I made that clear.

The next two bits of analysis are A50 and me saying functionally the same thing about me, and a townread on me + scumread on A50 for it.

There is a difference. You initiated it and you are the actual read for it. That is a fallacy because you are stating about you are self. A50 is not you and is another member of this game so of course there will be a different reasoning based on what you said. What logic are you trying to prove? I explained why and I am keen to believe it could be true.

I'm fascinated how g-pa knows he disagrees with all of my reads when I've given reasoning for very few of them, but the preflip pairing of Luke and Monkey is p gross.

You are trying to make it seem like I am scumreading you for having wrong reads. I just disagreed and gave my reads with MY reasoning which should tell you why I disagree...again what the fuck logic is this. We agreed on like 2 some reads.

148 is a fine post and being willing to back down isn't inherently scummy at all.

Can you explain why?

Grandpa, I am a bit confused by your logic on me tbh.

This is a really weird entrance. I think something that should be noticed. They come into the game with a read already done being made on Prof. They vote them and probably make some random meme excuse as mafia.

Post 79 Im not sure why you are taking it so seriously. I did not have a read whatso ever on ProfessorDrapion at the time, I think it was quite obviously my RVS vote. And I am just curious why you honed in on my RVS in particular. Gypyx rvs'ed professor for saying "first." VFP voted T3 with no reason.

You

voted VFP for not being able to see the future. I voted Professor because he claimed to be a talking pokemon. I am curious, what made you take my RVS serious compared to all of these others?

That is because there were already reads being made on Drap. I do not know if you looked at those reads previously and realized there were votes being made. So it just seemed you were sheeping from my perspective and just would claim RVS (the second part of your quote) as an excuse to vote Drap.

I will further exemplify Lukewarm's scumread on a later post that I have added but basically Bingle gives info against Lukewarm because Lukewarm pushed the narrative of why psych outting in which Almost50 made that post and I gave my reason on why they were scum above btw!! But after that post from Almost50, lukewarm instantly backs down. And it seems like mafia tried to push this narrative where they didn't want psych to out because they could set up a CC later hence why Almost50 tried to signal them to backdown; it would be more of wifom to say it in day chat.

And I cannot even follow this logic tbh.

You are saying that I saw advice coming from Bingle, that I think would out both the psych and the sitter to the thread, and then, as scum, I tried to make the case that that was bad for town instead of letting that plan play out to the benefit of the scum team? And then, A50, as my scum partner, told me to drop it in Day Chat, instead using the mafia chat?

So basically coming from a different community; I have seen this initiated through scum inhabitance. So basically what happens is 1st scum pressures town >>> Town then pressures 1st scum >>> 2nd scum hops on >>> 1st scum backs down.

That end bit could just be an overreach, I do agree and that is because of what I seen and initially they flipped scum. Honestly I actually like this post done on me and I am starting to get paranoid. However, that is what I have seen.

This chain of reasoning leaves me very confused.

Your analysis on the interaction between me and Almost50 completely ignores the fact that me and Bingle had a multiple post back and forth leading up to Almost 50 weighing in.

Again, this is where like I see it as you know you are interacting with town then scum joins in etc.

In post 117 I said that I did not like the advice given by bingle. In post 118 bingle said for me to not question him, which I found... odd. So in post 123 I said I was now suspicious of him because of that interaction.

Then why did you back down in post 148?? That was after Almost50 came and said what they said. You see now??? This is why I find you weird.

In post 129 Bingle came back and responded to my suspicions, and said that this kind of post was "a tried and true strategy Bingle has used as both town and scum for literally years to a pretty good result." Then A50 responded to the back and forth with post 134 confirming Bingle's claim that he always makes these kinds of posts, and that him doing so is NAI.

So I backed down from my stance. If he does it every game, town or mafia, then it is NAI, so why would I continue to push it?

Do you find it scummy for people to change their stances after being presented with new information?

No. I find it scummy that you are not inclined to push your scumread. You scumread them. So why would you believe someone else's claim another person? Have you done your research? Have you looked at their previosu games and saw that they do this? Probably not. So what are you willing to believe. With a town mindset, I would see you to keep pushing the person you had wanted to push and not be scared to push them. Do you understand what I am trying to get at?

have you read these interactions @mena @ydrase?

[GrandpaMo]

I changed my mind on Drapion.
VOTE: ProfessorDrapion

What made you change your mind on me?

@Pooky
@A50
Can I have both of your Top 3 Scum and Town please.

I only have VFP as a

confident

SR. I am still debating Gypyx, you, Pine & MWNN (the one that hasn't posted and seems to have flaked the site) as possible candidates. I also have Menalque in a "Menalque category" if that helps (that almost never changes today).

The other 6 are not exactly TRs either, but I don't have them in my possible elimination pool for today.

If you find this unsatisfactory I'd like to refer you to 187 second paragraph

So your read on Grandpa Changed?

tvt moment.

I take it you TR A50 and Dann?

My current reads are

Town Lean

Gypyx
VFP
Grandpa (I get the feeling he is just misguided town)
(maybe) Bingle

Scum Lean

T3
Professor Drapion

And then a bunch of people still sitting in Null.

Most of my experience has been in the newbie queue so far, stepping out into the Open queue definitely has a different feel. The fact that half the players so obviously know each other makes it harder to read everyone's interactions.

You haven’t talked about Mena in here.
What do you feel about them?

from these series of quotes it looks like drap likes to question other ppl other than the ppl other than bingle + nm, this would imply that t3, mena, and me are town which in that case assuming mena is town and its true then.

Drapion is scum though, I've read the first 2 pages

eh i think gypx is way more scum than drap. drap has been very solvy on finding mafia wit a town mindset imo. the interation wit them and gypx just made gypx look worse. they also had good reactions against luke. i might be biased tho

^ Drapion's partner

Hey we talked about this!
I said don’t mention us right away in Scum PT not call our both your partners!

also this, what do yall think about this

in fact, i will change my vote to NM even tho there is literally no difference. but this post looks very very bad for NM.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Not_Mafia

[GrandpaMo]

Although I will say it’s great to have NM playing, he’s funny and I like him!

Although I will say it’s great to have NM playing, he’s funny and I like him!

Thanks, I like you too. It's a shame that you're scum.

oops forgot to include this scenario.

[GrandpaMo]

NM is on point this game

I hope he pockets you enough that we win!

Great job everyone

wow

this is some quality snark from somebody who couldn't bother to show up

also im conf town

cuz mena is not even playing

Mena's lack of activity is completely unacceptable, i think we need to policy him tomorrow

That’s right NM!
Avenge me!

I have a good feeling about our animal police department this game

Lol Bingle’s the Woman.

lol drap is openwolfing -- and we all townread nm such a shame.

also

after analyzing more of drap's iso -- everyone who he has questioned has flipped town

[GrandpaMo]

Just as general advice, GPa, you wanna avoid relying too much on preflip partner associations because you can easily fall into confirmation biases.

I personally don't know how drap's flip will influence my reads either way

, because after the night I'll have more information and will want to reevaluate either way. Getting too married to an association can lead in to chaining mislims based on one bad read.

I don't have any regrets about this lim either way, because regardless of flip we have a ton of information based on how people interacted with drap and the wagon. If he flips scum, sweet.

If he flips town, oh well, but we didn't lose a PR and he has been a major talking point for the majority of the day.

this quote literally contradicts itself -- and doesn't bingle implicitly scumslip here... why would town have that mindset of a person that you scumread not having an influence then continues to act like it won't have any info regardless of the flip -- knowing that drap will probably flip scum with TMI

[GrandpaMo]

VOTE: professor drapion

This might actually be scum lol

Assuming it’s hectic, as is the standard operating procedure with all users whose name I don’t recognize, that’s actually a pretty towny slot imo.

Lol I love how bingle switched INSTANTLY after NM finding them scum and he knew he was in hot water -- NM probably told him to bus with him because it would have gotten them a big deal advantage.

This whole thing was setup holy fuck.

Now peep back to post 51 where Bingle was actually TOWNREADING drap here.

[GrandpaMo]

What brings you to the site, Mr. Pokeymans sir?

What kind of Pokémon are you? Are you loyal through and through? Share with me your secrets deep inside.

He is, explicitly. He signed up in the newbie queue as a newbie.

So I have a spicy tinfoil theory. I think that professor Drapion is not actually a drapion at all and is a robot attempting to pretend to be a drapion for the purposes of making achieving a professorship more impressive. I know, I know, this is all very farfetch’d, but I do have evidence.

Firstly, drapion has been established to evolve at level 40, which as everyone knows is a very rare occurrence in a game of mafia. Usually you have to have several weirdos running conflicting gambits to even get close to level 10 play. I find it very unlikely that someone with no completed games has managed to pull of a high enough level maneuver to evolve.

He COULD be a naturally occurring drapion, as drapion have been encountered in many places. This is exceedingly unlikely on the basis that there have been 0 wild drapion sightings in Central Park. Indeed, there aren’t even any confirmed drapion sightings in the greater New York area. Occams suggests that such a large Pokémon would have been spotted at least once during its migration.

Furthermore, when I began quoting music from Pokémon soundtracks, drapion remained ignorant of the context and didn’t respond to his supposed people’s music. I find this very suspicious.

Thirdly, when preparing to battle Mena, drapion mentioned that his claw was ready. Claw: singular, not plural. As everyone knows, drapion as a species has two claws, four spiked limbs and a scorpion like tail. This lack of biological familiarity with his supposed species is highly suspicious.

Finally, it is common knowledge that very few Pokémon have learned to speak proper English. Among those who have, a predilection towards using their own species name (such as the famous Team Rocket Meowth) is still common. drapion has shown a distinct lack of these behaviors. Clearly, the preponderance of evidence shows: Drapion must be a robot.

Cyborg actually, had a translator transplant.
(Messed up quote before)

Sounds like something a robot would say, tbh.

Now Bingle, got any other early reads?

Mena slightly scummy, pooky low priority, your slot has tells but I need to wait for the psych evaluation result to determine if they’re scummy or towny. Dann strongest townread. I’d be voting lukewarm if I weren’t voting gypyx, but I think the gypyx wagon is more likely to be spicy atm.

You?

Town:

Dannflor
T3
PookyTheMagicalBear
Almost50

Needs more content before being arbitrarily shuffled into a pile:

GrandpaMo
ManWithNoName
Pine

Scum:

Lukewarm
VFP
Menalque
ProfessorDrapion
Gypyx

Yes. All nine of those are genuine reads with genuine reasoning. I'm not going to bother explaining most of them at the moment, and they're loosely ordered based on how accurate my gut says they might be.

Explain your VFP read.

Entrance was aggressively meh, seems to be moderately around and yet is only addressing topics that don't really have substance.

I officially endorse A50 poking this with a stick.

Good Post!

Nah.

Basically every bit of analysis is off point.

this whole interaction + peep the subtle aggression against me in aiding drap scum here.

[GrandpaMo]

Yeah, I'm in no particular rush to end day.

Anything you'd like me to address?

There've been a bunch of recent Mo walls I could talk about, but frankly I don't see pointing out misreps and narrative spinning there to be a valuable use of my time unless someone needs me to.

i have pointed all the misrepresentation and intentionally manipulation you have said.

and i will continue to do so -- i will post an update to what you said tmr.

and i actually will do it unlike you where you have praised yourself on "catching up" or "contributing" by tuesday. and the only time you actually get offended is when you get scum read -- you never have encountered any scum / townread other than an OMGUS.

[GrandpaMo]

also i love how you keep making excuses and excuses to actually not reading anything of what i said -- you probably just skimmed thru some of it, replied to only 1 part where you felt offended as scum (comes from scum mindest reference to post 2228).

wanting to get the day over; when you have hand to hand told me that i was scum for this -- even tho i gave YOU the benefit of the doubt to actually talk to me on why your town because i didn't know who scum was atp.

but realizing who it is now and now after you potaraying that idealistic view of wanting the day to be over just looks really bad for you.

[GrandpaMo]

I said I would engage with the thread ON Tuesday, not by tuesday, but honestly casing you when you're the defacto lim is a waste of my time and reevaluating when you're confscum FMPOV is just as ridiculous.

The idea that I've been offended at all this game is laughable. The statement that I'm the one pushing for a faster EoD while quoting me saying I didn't mind waiting after literally voting me in XLO while I was borderline V/LA and thus not around to defend myself is even more so.

but this was when you already had voted me??? why are you blantantly lying now?

literally read back upon the iso of posts and you will see you voted me way before i even voted. so why are you tryna flip the bs narrative??? now coming up with an excuse of being v/la my ass.

also yes you are probing my point more - on tuesday you said. idk what time it was for you when you had made that initial post but it is now 3 am tuesday here est.

so i was going in the general assumption that you were in the same time area...

again, you are just trying to take my words out of context and continue to maniupulate the context of what i have been talking in. nd on top of that, ur inconsistency is showing wit different now narratives you are pushing vs the past. i will continue u that tmr.

we still have much time -- and i want town to make a careful decision instead of blatantly hammering someone out of emotional intelligence but actual facts that come out from this game.

[GrandpaMo]

also the fact that i havent been hammered yet shows that scum is most likely probable nm + bingle. if i were scum, mafia could have easily bussed me here for towncred smh also i did not forget, i will be responding soon -- been studying + covid shot

[GrandpaMo]

fuck this. u havent done shit and im not gonna lose to u as scum when i have called u out multiple times and still found urself to make excuses / deflections.

we lose oh well -- ur anti town behavior caused this game to be thrown.

VOTE: Bingle

VOTE: Mo

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

Look, man. I know numbers are hard, but 2191 is actually more than 2109.

And yes, it is currently 3:30 AM (fuck insomnia) but Tuesday is still tomorrow in my eyes.

finally something u care to admit

[GrandpaMo]

u also forgot to quote what i said before? have u forgot that nm was already be voting ?

do you think me scum would vote you instead of voting NM????

[GrandpaMo]

wait holy fuck i cant read -- i must have misread.

this one was on me -- but you still manipulate the context in which i voted u in lol

literally not quoting on why i decided to vote u

[GrandpaMo]

just honestly end this bs game already.

i wont be mad if i lose to nm and bingle. that is the only reason this game has been hard because of the scumpair like you where everyone townread nm just for bussing his scum day 1 (just like he did twice in a game i analyzed while reading thru nm's meta, forgot the names) and bingle who has coming from this "let's go guys! we need to win as town and this is how we do it [while in the background planning all the scum strat of no limming to setup NM and Mena against me... idk about Gypyx's play here -- there interactions have been very very stale and very inconsistent.]

i was very easy to townread as you see in newbie 2059 where i start scum then everyone starts to collecetvily townread me, as well as the neighbor game that just finished (pls go and anaylyze the same meta i have as town!!, all the games I have played is in town and I have done I am doing) where you can see i was townread a lot then when it came to me meming i started getting scumread, and my frustration is also visible there just like how i am frustrated right now.

i contributed half more of this game and town has been completely bashing me thru the incomprehensibility of my posts even tho i have and willing to try and explain every point i have made. u even have bingle townreading me in the beginning and now obliged to say im scum because of an omgus. and nm rando guessing its me. then thinks its me after sheeping my scumread on johnny xD let's not forget about that.

i will still be able to explain everything -- and props to scum!bingle for atleast trying to respond while NM has always used the "flail" excuse as a sign of deflection and not responding the scumcase I have potrayed against him even tho you can see this type of behavior in all the games I have played xD and guess what!!! i flipped town in those games smh

[GrandpaMo]

This day really should have ended like 48-72 hours ago

how ironic that ur buddy pushes the adgenda of me wanting to flip them so bad is scum but look at u

[GrandpaMo]

Just making sure we’re not risking Mena/mo or nm/no running out the deadline with your absence.

really mena mo??

if i was scum, ydrasse and mena would have easily gotten the town cred and bussed me


again what r u on about???

nd pls forgive me-- i have been so busy with exams and stufdying just got out of 4 hour exam. still planning to do a full dive analysis on you also

[GrandpaMo]

again what r u on about???

In the case that Y is town and couldn't be around at deadline to hammer, scum could force a no lim by simply not voting before deadline, which would result in a town loss. Given that you're confirmed scum to me, the worlds in which that is possible are the combined worlds of Mena/you and N_M/you. There is no mechanical clear on either, so technically they are worlds on the table and I will evaluate them tomorrow if I am still alive and not handed a mechanical guilty, like say flailing scum leaving a vote on me and confirming themselves.

this can easily be debunked because both were here at the same time -- and even have confessed being here. idk why scum would just wait any longer, when mena could have easily just voted me there and get the game going, there is a risk factor in waiting. as well as y who could also voted me while they were there. think about it, i understand what u tryna say bout waiting and shi, but that comes wit a higher risk play because they can just easily take the opportunity to take towncred vs no towncred and can be easily scumread by the other town person. for example (if y is scum, they wait it out, then mena could have the chnace to scumread them just like how you are doing right now. and that would be the risk, instead of just bussing me if i were scum, and it would carry out in cylo, with the hammer on scum. its way better than the option you proposed). i voted you because i scumread you, and now the pair is obviously you and nm. thats how i play -- i vote my scumreads, and associative reads. you should see this trend develop as you even brought it up. you even townread me for having the same angles despite allignment etc. that is how i play as town if you haven't noticed really. and thats honestly something i should work on because scum (like you) can really take advantage of that and manipulate my angles having a better wincon than me.

As scum without you, I can just STFU and not bring that up and then if Y doesn't remember to check for hammer before deadline simply win by never moving my vote off of the person who is literal confscum to me. I as scum with you could have been sounding out Y's absence to see the viability of unvoting off of the wagon near deadline, but that's a very high risk low reward play and also presumes us as a scum team which not only do we both know is not the case but it's pretty laughable from the evolution of the thread.

you keep doing this thing as scum, where you always bring up a hypothetical situation that can't be true. you do this as scum, because from that mindset that is the only info you have and it has been apparent in some of your scum games lol. i mean yea its way more likely if i were scum, i would be scum wit u or nm (because thru my theory that i would be bussed by now) but at the same time if i have both of you voting me, then that would be a carry out fallacy leading to me town because you are the only scum team that cares to vote me for easy lim. if you just look at my iso u can see im way more consistent than you and its sad because now you are coming up wit this theory that it could be me and you. lol. just lol

[GrandpaMo]

Are you arguing it's impossible for you and Mena to be scum because you and mena have been online at the same time? Because you've never been in a position where a scumpartner could hammer in this XLO. You've always been a voting party or a party being voted.

its the same reason why you don't see yourself and nm as a possible pair xD. im litreally going based of i know, MY expierence. i am town, and if it isn't obvious now, it should be obvious because if i am telling you a sitatuion how only town!me would know and stay fixated on, then im most likely town.

You, Mo, are confirmed scum to me. Theoretically, disregarding all other factors, any of Y/Mena/N_M could be scum with you. This is empirical truth, and saying it's anything else is simply arguing in bad faith. It doesn't matter if you type 1000 words or 50000 words, you can't change that obvious truth. Your attempts at twisting my words and pushing your narrative aren't doing you any favors and are in fact just boring.

yes that is true. but you instantly contradict your statement right after with "theoritically" you go on with the narrative of impossibility and impracticability however, you put me in a situtation where i could "theoretically be scum with nm, y, mena" but what you were saying earlier, regarding about me and you -- you defended yourself on so much on how it CAN'T be me and you as the scum team, therefore it must be nm, y or mena. you were fixated on that, and confirmation bias led to your shitty reasoning. that is the truth, i even said that if i were scum, that would have been truth, i even helped you out and gave you the more likely pairs through my analysis. but i debunked how it could be with my towny gameplay and etc. you have done way more manip than me and throwing out of context. i can list all the times you do when i come back from work. you keep making up excuses. and its so sad because im literally a vaible lim for it.

Also, for the record, I was townreading you in spite of your play being intrinsically based on pair interactions, not because of it. Preflip associations are garbage, especially on D1. Catching 1 scum is difficult. Assuming yourself to be right and then using that to set up a chain of eliminations is awful. There's a reason that even while I was townreading you your reads had almost no value in my eyes.

"catching 1 scum is difficult" you act like you even caught drap as scum. you didn't hop on the bw until nm showed up. you keep saying how my play was awful, but weren't you sheeping me on day 3 or 2? also this is a bad rxn -- scum quote -- that last 2 bit of sentences there.

[GrandpaMo]

ahhhhhhhhh

just vote me if ur unsure, i wanna get the game over with, never had a town game go to day 5 lol .

i wont be too mad to lose to nm or bingle, they played well

[GrandpaMo]

the only thing that is frustrating is the constant manipulation from bingle lol.


its just like i felt like i played really well as town at this game and you call me shit for my playstyle then you technically townread me for it in the beginning then change the narrative now thinking i would have been scum with anyone else in this game. if that shouldnt be obvious to you already if you think i was scum. (scum points out the obvious -- just to let reassurance for town)

its up to you mena, i suggest you iso and look at bingle's recent scumgames and tell me the similarities. you will see a common theme (his scumtell), bonus points to u if u catch it

[GrandpaMo]

wait mena i have a question, from your pov, do you think there is anyway it could be y and bingle/nm?

[GrandpaMo]

mena didnt even have to hammer lol

i dont even think mena was the deciding factor. it was up to bingle that had to make him vote nm since bingle thought it was me/nm

[GrandpaMo]

btw is game over? im still not scum if you all are wondering lol

[GrandpaMo]

im so serious

[GrandpaMo]

lol

[GrandpaMo]

gg, honestly, i tried to come up with any bs. and ik mena had a lot of paranoia; so it was very very vital and important for me to keep rebuking whatever bingle is talking bout to make mena worry more and keep pushing the only narrative i can, nm and bingle being paired. i didnt actually have plans going in playing as tryhard scum, but it was honestly just the relaxed playstyle of mines, i gave up after day 3-4 it got very tiring. then started to guilttrip mena even more lol. also if there was a chance for me to be limmed, i think bingle dies the night, and it all becomes wifom wit mena + y townreading each other and ez lim becomes nm. mena would then just trust y and probably hammer nm and win still either way. i think bingle got unpatient there towards the end unless mena, you were planning to hammer nm either way lol

[GrandpaMo]

also i like to think the reactions i had towards the end, i would have done as town as well. thats because compared to this other game wher i was limmed for it i think or someone was saying how i sounded geninune or what. my plan in day 1 was to get the chance to hard defend drap for wifom then continue pushing the narrative how drap was seemed towny however DISREGARD everything i had say with scum being between gypyx and drap, that was actually something scummy i had that no one acklowedged i think and thats because i never got to push that narrative after that day and was going to but i realized it went unnoticed and everyone was townreading gypyx or ignorning them so i decided i didnt want to bring the attention towards them.

[GrandpaMo]

wait y'all actually managed to do it

freaking congrats

honestly u requesting for replacement saved ur slot's ass

[GrandpaMo]

not saying u arent capable, but i feel like people started to doubt ur towniness etc since it hasnt been looked at, and ydrasse had a subtle way into pocketing mena x.x

[GrandpaMo]

it also bought time for more discussion

[GrandpaMo]

She’s like “Sure! I’ll carry Gramps!”
Then she sees this Pokémon lying down as it fainted, that Pokémon being me.

what?

there was no carrying that happened. lmfao

[GrandpaMo]

she did her contribution, in pocketing mena (once she repped in). i did mine against the whole town the whole game till it came to mylo / cylo

[GrandpaMo]

Mena never considered you and mo.

I actually did realise this after the fact but didn’t mention for a couple of reasons

(1) the lack of anyone I could trust between the four of you was driving me insane and ydra’s reaction felt authentically happy... which I guess it was but for the wrong reason

(2) I figured that if it was ydra/mo then pretending to believe she was conf would get me brought to F3 instead of killed

@2nd point, i’m always going to kill you there because wifom over “why are we both still here” is very dumb and you would have figured that out, i just take my chances with bingle/nm instead, way better odds.

fr? i think u would have wayyyy better odds with keeping mena alive and thats because nm / bingle were most likely way more set on nm + bingle. then just use the "why are we both still here" as the wifom stance against mayhaps nm and push the nm / mo narrative imo

[GrandpaMo]

grandpa scumslipped 4 times
the dead thread...

how did i scumslip lololol

[GrandpaMo]

i made sure everytime i referenced those examples, i put "if i were scum" lol

[GrandpaMo]

This game feels sort of like a case lesson in why ability to look town is often much greater utility than having good reads

I think this was winnable and you have a bias towards dismissing me or wanting me to be scum.

Nonetheless, congrats and gg scum and thanks mod for hosting

bingle hammered u kekw

[GrandpaMo]

<3 u pooky

BEST MAFIA PLAYER ON THE SITE FOR SHO

smh poooky smh

[GrandpaMo]

no redact as well

[GrandpaMo]

This game feels sort of like a case lesson in why ability to look town is often much greater utility than having good reads

I disagree very much that I didn’t look town Mena. As evidenced by the literally every other player townreading me.

i dont thinkn no one was strongly townreading u imo everyone was scared to admit it. mafia started the chain of townreading u, then t3 (someone who wasn't vocally strong) said u were town as well but never emphasized why.

then during like that passive break u took, everyone started null reading u

[GrandpaMo]

Mena never considered you and mo.

I actually did realise this after the fact but didn’t mention for a couple of reasons

(1) the lack of anyone I could trust between the four of you was driving me insane and ydra’s reaction felt authentically happy... which I guess it was but for the wrong reason

(2) I figured that if it was ydra/mo then pretending to believe she was conf would get me brought to F3 instead of killed

@2nd point, i’m always going to kill you there because wifom over “why are we both still here” is very dumb and you would have figured that out, i just take my chances with bingle/nm instead, way better odds.

fr? i think u would have wayyyy better odds with keeping mena alive and thats because nm / bingle were most likely way more set on nm + bingle. then just use the "why are we both still here" as the wifom stance against mayhaps nm and push the nm / mo narrative imo

wifom over a nightkill is always too risky; you kill the person who is the biggest threat to your wincon. mena wasn’t being suspected at all and as, in theory, a hammer on you would have “”confirmed”” (even if incorrectly) the sentiment of you/bingle or nm, it doesn’t make sense for him to stay alive especially when he’s aware that he could have been wrong/pocketed and does re-evaluate at end of game. him dying after your flip would be the kill any scum here would make i think, or me if i was town at that point.

yea i get that u killl ppl for their towniness (killing your townreads, or killing the towniest person in the game) however, in a f3 situation, u can manipulate the results in a way where there will be wifom in both sides of each scenario. then lay out the risk factors. imo, i think it will be more interesting ONLY IF you can execute it out correctly, like wtf why am i alive, did mafia set this shit up so it can be obvious for y to be scum? its kinda hard to measure how risky that play is because everyone has a unique playstyle and that playstyle comes with its own execution. i would just start pushing BS narratives. if u were pushed this day and i was the one to be in f3, i would def kill nm because that would be the biggest threat to my wincon, not mena who i can use to sway the vote on bingle, then we would have a 1v1 prospect in which i purposfully set up because my playstyle deems for an interesting and fun convo where ik bingle can ultimaly fall into my trap of the constant manipulation and go in with making (towny) excuses not to argue or debate with me.

[GrandpaMo]

Pooky, A50, Luke, NM.

Like, literally every NK after Dann was strong tr-ing me.

well that comes with a fallacy i believe, because those people also strongly / or mildly townreading scum as well, and so it wouldnt have been a fair assessment to you. i think the townreads should really after everyone got a fair chance to be reevaluated and that was AFTER that nk

[GrandpaMo]

NM also thought u were scum at one point

[GrandpaMo]

but i think you are right about the other 3, and A50 was confused on who scum was and basically was townreading everyone and had a scumread on T3 I believe but there was still 2 scum in the game alive. and poe only consisted of one person who flipped town eventually

[GrandpaMo]

luke, don't post please!! <3 (the game's technically over but it's a courtesy thing :3)

Sorry for this - this was literally my first game where I died before endgame, so I did not know

It’s one of the rewards of modding, the grand reveal at the end. More importantly, you don’t always know that a game is actually over. Y could have been town trolling me. Lend could have given fake spoilers to keep the dead thread entertaining. Etc.

Wasn’t a big deal here, but as a rule never post in a game thread you’ve died in before the mod explicitly declares a winner, because if the game continues due to something you didn’t know you’ve accidentally cheated, one way or another.

thats why i was scared mod would have been like bingle's vote didn't count because he never unvoted from me

[GrandpaMo]

i dont think i have lost one game yet

lets go a5000

[GrandpaMo]

lol just looked at dead pt. i did not slip -- i made sure i had contextually implied the if statement of "if i were scum"

and nah the headache walls were actually half bs and half truth.

my plan was to guiltrip tf out of mena hence why it felt like i wanted to die lol

also i brought up ydra + me as a pair because it was geninue to mena in their perspective, "if i townread ydra and mo is saying this shit -- then they are most likely not paired" i was just trying, just in case if i was limmed, to make me and nm look paired so nm would be the vote

[GrandpaMo]

i knew mena would still think because i know mena did not want to vote me but would have been mad if they didnt vote me lol

i knew bingle or mena would have flipped at some point. mena's paranoia caused bingle to just impatiently pair me and nm.

[GrandpaMo]

i knew bingle or mena would have flipped at some point. mena's paranoia caused bingle to just impatiently pair me and nm.

It was deadline and not impatience. I waited until I literally would not be able to post again during the dayphase.

well i thought there was enough time for mena to come back etc

[GrandpaMo]

Oh he would’ve, as proven by him posting 2 hours after my hammer. But if Mena was scum with you Mena coming back ended the game in a scum win. If y was scum with you Mena coming back resulted in Mena having to make the exact judgment I made, and I thought it more likely he’d choose to vote nm than you. And if nm was scum with you me hammering put me in a slightly better position the next day.

I absolutely made the call, and the wrong one, but I didn’t do it out of impatience. Don’t sell your teams play short. You left just enough room for me to doubt that NM was town. You didn’t win to someone just getting bored and wanting the game over with.

when im talking about impatience, i mean the solidraity that the pressure would go on to mena instead of you lol

its all good tho i undersntand wym ggs