Open 814: CultD3 CULT WINS

[Korina]

VOTE COUNT 1.10

Major Minor (2):

Flea The Magician, T3

Enchant (1):

InsidiousLemons

osuka (1):

Marky Mark

T3 (1):

Raya36

Raya36 (1):

Enchant

Flea The Magician (0):

InsidiousLemons (0):

Marky Mark (0):

Umlaut (0):

Not Voting (3):

osuka, Umlaut, Major Minor

With

9

votes in play, it takes

5

of them to yeet somebody.

At deadline, Major Minor shall be yeeted.

(expired on 2021-06-14 09:25:00) remain in the day.

Mod Notes

:
- Korina is V/LA on weekends. Please direct questions at that time to my Discord (Korina#0359)
- Maruchan is my co-mod.
- C

Pronoun Key

Korina - They/Them
Maruchan - She/Her
Flea The Magician - Fae/Faer or They/Them
Raya36 - She/Her
Enchant - Please set preferred pronouns in user control panel.
Major Minor - He/Him
Marky Marky - He/Him
T3 - He/Him
Umlaut - He/Him
osuka - He/Him
InsidiousLemons - Any Pronouns

[Enchant]

My plan was to pose as Unrecruitable, so i am not end up brainwashed and help tracker/cop catch actual cult, not wasting check on me and help you in finding CL.

Of course i will post my targets.
It sorta failed, but because after you know my role, you have higher chances to lynch CL and i think we could do that.


Btw. After this night i could be converted. Don't lynch me if CL alive, no matter what i say or do, because drawing lynch on me instead of CL and freeing cult slot is not in town favor and this is first thing i would do as convert.
... Honestly idk, i would be idiot if i didn't try to wine it and probably do. Just consider me foe after this night.

I will add something later, too busy right now.

[Raya36]

You posted that after the general PR claim but before the rolestopper claim

Enchants pr claim felt like a scum cop out claim earlier. Like that's the kind of thing I would do as scum in ENchants situation there.

Enchant only had 2 votes at the time if I recall correctly. I don't think scum would feel enough pressure to fake claim like that.

[Marky Mark]

You posted that after the general PR claim but before the rolestopper claim

Enchants pr claim felt like a scum cop out claim earlier. Like that's the kind of thing I would do as scum in ENchants situation there.

Enchant only had 2 votes at the time if I recall correctly. I don't think scum would feel enough pressure to fake claim like that.

I mean T3 literally fakeclaimed BP as scum in our recent large normal with minimal pressure on them so arguments over pressure and choice of role to fakeclaim do have some merit to them but nothing is impossible

[Marky Mark]

But what is more useful (and is leaning me towards thinking that Enchant's claim is legit) is the fact that nobody so far has stepped forward as being able to counter claim. AFAIK Lemons, Flea and I have all stated that we cannot counter claim (and Umlaut heavily implied that he couldn't) so if we can get the other slots to step up and state their position then we ought to be able to get a quasi-clear on the Enchant slot, which will then give us a useful baseline to scumhunt from.

[Marky Mark]

While I wait for Osuka to get back to me, I had a look over a couple of slots that have felt towny but have also been somewhat around the edges of the game, Umlaut and Raya. Umlaut looks very town throughout their ISO imo, but a couple of Raya's posts stood out when I was flicking back through them:

Is it possible Enchant is struggling to come up with reads because they're scum and know who town is? I thought Enchant was better than that but I can't remember specific meta off the top of my head.

Well this slowed down.

Is it possible Enchant is struggling to come up with reads because they're scum and know who town is? I thought Enchant was better than that but I can't remember specific meta off the top of my head.

It's possible, sure. I have no meta one way or the other with Enchant so I can't say whether they find it hard to fake reads. I'm inclined to say that randing their vote is so conspicuous I wouldn't expect it from scum, but blah blah wifom who knows.

Maybe but scum could easily do it as a way to keep posting without really giving any actual info. But then of course blah blah wifom as you said.

I do know Enchant can do better than just mechanics. Idk if this is just a newly gained frustration or if they're hiding behind the mechanics talk as scum

In light of Enchant's claim and the likelihood of them now being town, the above in hindsight have a bit of a vibe of wanting to put the idea of Enchant being scum in people's minds, but without explicitly SRing Enchant or voting the slot. Maybe I'm reading too much into this but I could see how scum could pull this to try and encourage others to vote for Enchant without being in a bad spot themselves, should Enchant flip town

[Major Minor]

I cannot CC.

[Raya36]

You posted that after the general PR claim but before the rolestopper claim

Enchants pr claim felt like a scum cop out claim earlier. Like that's the kind of thing I would do as scum in ENchants situation there.

Enchant only had 2 votes at the time if I recall correctly. I don't think scum would feel enough pressure to fake claim like that.

I mean T3 literally fakeclaimed BP as scum in our recent large normal with minimal pressure on them so arguments over pressure and choice of role to fakeclaim do have some merit to them but nothing is impossible

Oh, I didn't realize that was something T3 would genuinely do. I don't think that's what Enchant is doing here but I guess I'm wrong about T3's stance being unreasonable.

But what is more useful (and is leaning me towards thinking that Enchant's claim is legit) is the fact that nobody so far has stepped forward as being able to counter claim. AFAIK Lemons, Flea and I have all stated that we cannot counter claim (and Umlaut heavily implied that he couldn't) so if we can get the other slots to step up and state their position then we ought to be able to get a quasi-clear on the Enchant slot, which will then give us a useful baseline to scumhunt from.

Right, I also can't CC

While I wait for Osuka to get back to me, I had a look over a couple of slots that have felt towny but have also been somewhat around the edges of the game, Umlaut and Raya. Umlaut looks very town throughout their ISO imo, but a couple of Raya's posts stood out when I was flicking back through them:

Is it possible Enchant is struggling to come up with reads because they're scum and know who town is? I thought Enchant was better than that but I can't remember specific meta off the top of my head.

Well this slowed down.

Is it possible Enchant is struggling to come up with reads because they're scum and know who town is? I thought Enchant was better than that but I can't remember specific meta off the top of my head.

It's possible, sure. I have no meta one way or the other with Enchant so I can't say whether they find it hard to fake reads. I'm inclined to say that randing their vote is so conspicuous I wouldn't expect it from scum, but blah blah wifom who knows.

Maybe but scum could easily do it as a way to keep posting without really giving any actual info. But then of course blah blah wifom as you said.

I do know Enchant can do better than just mechanics. Idk if this is just a newly gained frustration or if they're hiding behind the mechanics talk as scum

In light of Enchant's claim and the likelihood of them now being town, the above in hindsight have a bit of a vibe of wanting to put the idea of Enchant being scum in people's minds, but without explicitly SRing Enchant or voting the slot. Maybe I'm reading too much into this but I could see how scum could pull this to try and encourage others to vote for Enchant without being in a bad spot themselves, should Enchant flip town

I think it was fair for me to be concerned when I know Enchant doesn't normally stick to only mechanics and is capable of much better. It makes a lot more sense that Enchant was so focused on mechanics now that they have claimed.

[T3]

You posted that after the general PR claim but before the rolestopper claim

Enchants pr claim felt like a scum cop out claim earlier. Like that's the kind of thing I would do as scum in ENchants situation there.

Enchant only had 2 votes at the time if I recall correctly. I don't think scum would feel enough pressure to fake claim like that.

That's what I'm saying at the time it felt like a scummy thing because they didn't need to.

[Raya36]

What do you mean by a scum cop out claim? I think I'm misunderstanding

[T3]

At the time I thought enchant saw a little bit of pressure as scum and panicked, so decided to get the votes off them by claiming just or so they couldn't be ccd.

[osuka]

While I wait for Osuka to get back to me

what do you want me to get back to you about

[osuka]

also i cannot cc

[Raya36]

At the time I thought enchant saw a little bit of pressure as scum and panicked, so decided to get the votes off them by claiming just or so they couldn't be ccd.

Ok then we're definitely disagreeing. I don't think Enchant panics like that as scum

[InsidiousLemons]

hey folks, sorry for the inactivity. those who have played with me before know i'm usually a bit more engaged than this, but i've been crazy busy irl with gearing up for a performance and trying to find housing in a new city. going to try and reread today and hopefully offer some insight. hang tight!

[Flea The Magician]

Sorry about being missing yesterday, I have my reasons.

I'm not sure what a "pants" case is. But I'd argue I wasn't attacking a playstyle, I was attacking individual categories of actions as being scummy. (And, for the record, "You were attacking a playstyle" is a really weird critique? Like yes, if a playstyle is scummy, the actions comprising that playstyle gets called out.)

I was calling your case rubbish. I get it's weird calling the play style scummy, but you made no attempt to engage Enchant otherwise and pull them into the game. That's what I thought was suspicious.

To your point about bad faith: if you weren't saying I was ignoring you, why did you tell me I got "scum points" for using the argument because it's an excuse to ignore you? Like, you're simultaneously using the ignoring as a reason to blanket scumread me, while also claiming I'm not actually ignoring you and you're just talking about what has happened in the past.

You are quite apt at altering contexts I've noticed.
Bad faith/disingenuous is used to disengage, ignore and otherwise weaken my position quite often. I did not say, nor imply that you had ignored me or disengaged me. You have, however, on multiple occasions tried to debase me and weaken my position.

Now I can see a town motivation for that, honestly, but your method seems intent to undermine and change the context of what I'm saying and inferring which now leads me to believe you're scum.

You're right, I was the first one on Enchant. I still stand by my points that Enchant's play was scum-coded, and furthermore, I think the open claim is actively harmful to town and very well might've lost us the game here.

Disagree, we still have another potential PR, Enchant had hinted VERY HEAVILY at being a PR and people still pushed for it. I believe Enchants wagon was scum driven and that they picked up the same hints as me. Same as you have around the time of the initial claim, but as a rather specific one that doesn't fit with that claim. This one could entirely be a case of "You'll find what you're looking for if you're looking for it" though.
Also, something to note is this:

I also,

in the post where I said I'd shoot you, actually explained the reasons I was voting for you

, so I am glad to have to repeat myself for you for like... the fifth time.

Your vote for Enchant was in 230. Did you forget?

I'm at a complete loss for what to do. Enchant has hardclaimed so that's off the table. I know that I'm not scum. I don't believe Osuka is scum, though I'm sincerely hoping I'm not being pocketed and letting Osuka into my blind spot. If I believe all of that, and not a single person has shown any interest in supporting my suspicions on Flea, then I'm left with a very narrow pool, all of which seem to be somewhat swimming in the same stagnant null waters.

Pick someone and push then. You're suspicious of a pocket from Osuka, investigate it and either confirm it or throw it aside. Osuka is someone who gives me big game vibes and I want to see the big game happen.

On my to-do list is to go back and reread Raya, T3, Umlaut, and Lemons to see if I can glean anything from there.[/quote]

[Flea The Magician]

T3 are you counterclaiming? You're making a lot of noise about it being a fake claim but I can't see you saying you're not counterclaiming.

[Major Minor]

Your vote for Enchant was in 230. Did you forget?

I see. I meant "in the post where I said I'd shoot you, I explained the reasons for shooting you"

[Major Minor]

@Osuka:

Who is scum here? What is your read on me, specifically regarding my back and forth over the last few pages with Flea? What's your read on Flea?

[T3]

What I'm saying is, at the time when enchant claimed just pr. I thought it was fake. Now ik it's not.

[Flea The Magician]

Why do people insist on answering around my questions?

I know it's pride month T3, but I need a STRAIGHT ANSWER.

[Umlaut]

I think T3 saying in effect "now I believe Enchant's claim" makes it pretty obvious he doesn't have a counterclaim (and, in case anyone is still unclear on this, neither do I). At any rate if he tries to make a counterclaim later I'm certainly not going to believe it.

I don't think T3 keeping his vote on Enchant after the "I'm a PR" claim is scum-indicative at all. I voted Enchant after that and so did others so that's an odd thing to pick on T3 specifically for.

[Marky Mark]

Hey all, just reading up

[Marky Mark]

I think it was fair for me to be concerned when I know Enchant doesn't normally stick to only mechanics and is capable of much better. It makes a lot more sense that Enchant was so focused on mechanics now that they have claimed.

Ok, let me unpick this from a different angle - did you or did you not SR Enchant when you made those comments? If you did, then why not say that rather than skirting around the subject?

[Marky Mark]

While I wait for Osuka to get back to me

what do you want me to get back to you about

hit me with any questions you have, i'll be back on later after work to respond

A good place to start would be my point in 191, which you tried to write off as OMGUS at the time. Why not just give a response to my point, even if you disagreed with me, rather than trying to discredit me? I think most people would agree that the point I made went beyond OMGUS - it was the

means

that you pushed me by that was disingenuous.

I'm also keen to understand where your head is at atm in terms of top town/scumreads. You're not voting, and while you have commented on individual actions, I can't find much in your ISO in terms of how you are seeing the overall game.