Open 814: CultD3 CULT WINS

[Dwlee99]

Umlaut you voted with your initial solve onto Enchant (major minor + t3). Why?

[Flea The Magician]

ESPECIALLY if Flea is town.

Flea, if you're town, you're pushing on town here. Think about that for a moment and how that might explain some of the gamestate. With you doing the heavy lifting for scum to push people onto a miselimination onto me, they can sorta just... blend in. What other active things have been happening?

Thank you for your confession.
The gamestate is still fairly decent, the HEAVY resistance to your elimination despite few people expressing an opinion on you tells me there's either scum defending you, or you are scum. Osuka has been defending you, and I'm happy enough in my read on you that you are todays elimination, and the only one in my mind.

I will say this, you have earned a lot of respect from me for your play if you're scum. You've done a good job at adjusting the narratives around you, and I'm pretty sure you're wishing there was a factional kill.
Converting me would be obvious, besides there's the PR to take care of.

Question for me is your buddy, Osuka, T3 or Umlaut.

This isn't a long game, just 16 pages. I'd encourage people to reread and see the dominant narrative. It has solely centered around me from the start of this game, pretty much -- one of the first real reads expressed after Flea pushed us out of RVS was that people were sus of me for various reasons, and a majority of the dialogue has continued to be about that -- which means scum really don't want to shake up the narrative too much, because from their perspective, they had a townie in the spotlight (me) while I pushed for a wagon on a town PR (Enchant). The goal should be to find who was specifically trying not to rock the boat and seemed content to let the status quo stay as it is (Umlaut, ???).

Oof the ego is real. You pushed for a wagon on Enchant, who was promptly run up to E-1 with much much less resistance.

I think you picked up the same hints from Enchant as I did, and your push on them tells me you're scum motivated.

[Umlaut]

Umlaut you voted with your initial solve onto Enchant (major minor + t3). Why?

I didn't really think about who was or wasn't on the wagon with me (and if I had I hope I still wouldn't have let it sway me). I didn't really have Enchant as anything like a townread in the first place, then 312 really pinged me and made me want to resolve that slot.

Having resolved it, I think there is very likely scum on the Enchant wagon. I can't make up my mind who is most likely but I sort of feel the most town about T3 out of the three now (meaning it's Major Minor and/or you).

[Dwlee99]

That pinged you? It looks like a clear PR claim

[Umlaut]

They had already claimed PR in 299 after encouraging PRs to claim, and asked for other PR to claim as well, then suddenly reversed course in 312 and said "no, no one else should claim." At the time I thought this looked suspect, and specifically like trying to ward off potential counterclaims. Knowing their PR claim is legit I suppose it was just that they realized revealing themselves as a PR had been a mistake (and I agree it was!).

[Dwlee99]

I haven't read a single T3 post but I'm soul reading them as evil right now. Time to read and try to confirm suspicions.

[Dwlee99]

Okay nevermind I lost the feel.

[Enchant]

Mafia is hard.

I expect from CL being considered as town or atleast hiding around when other people pushed. This is most vital role, which cult want to save at all cost. So i expect SecondCult to push everything around. Even if he die, what he lose? Nothing can stop CL convert now if he really want.

But considering cult need just 1-2 day to screw town over, i think they could be passive and just sit with popcorn.


Also. I asked to not claim, because knowing i am PR for said PR is pretty powerful knowledge, without endangering me. I realised it too late and you can't read my mind and ye, i lynched/forced to claim at day 1 very, VERY often. Counterclaim situation is bad for me, because how likely possibility you believe cult, not me.

Not sure who really could be cult. Sorry for my blindness, i simple can't.

[Dwlee99]

I'm thinking marky has a good chance to flip CL.

[Marky Mark]

VOTE: T3

Fuck it. I don't want to crossvote Osuka and I would prefer if you guys didn't eliminate town D1.

... so you're gonna cross-vote T3? (who incidentally has not responded to my question about why he's voting you, despite me asking it within ~1 minute of his previous post)

[Marky Mark]

I had a scumlean for sure but it wasn't strong. Sometimes I like to pick at players I scumlean by giving little bits of pressure that way without writing a whole case. Sometimes I post like that as reminders to myself later on, kind of like thinking out loud.

This feels a bit off. It's pretty fence-sitty and markedly different to your progression on T3, where you explictly called out that you had a slight scumread on them from early on.

[Marky Mark]

I guess we should really start talking in terms of PoEs, given how close we are getting to deadline.

I still think we should be flipping osuka rn. Their ISO highlights include bending my words to try and push me (eg 152), trying to deflect my case on them as OMGUS rather than actually work through it (233), followed by acting like they were super open to questions (315), but then stalling and disappearing when I actually asked questions. I'd genuinely encourage people to go and look back at their ISO (it's not long) and make their own minds up.

Failing that, I'd settle for a compromise elim on T3 or Raya. I don't think they are scum together, but I reckon there is a decent chance that 1 of the 2 could be scum, especially with their recent posting.

I also need to go and look back at the Flea/Major interactions - Major's weird interaction with me where they said I singled them out unfairly but then struggled to back it up was scummy, but their posts otherwise have felt very towny, so I need to look back over why Flea is pushing them and whether it looks like it is in good faith or not.

[Umlaut]

I was about to say "Beetlejuice tell" but Beetlejuice is paradoxically so well-known that for someone with a 2014 join date it's effectively an anti-tell

VOTE: Dwlee

I'm suddenly more interested in this than I am in the Major or T3. Lemons' jump onto Enchant is oddly timed in that based on their posts they

should

have voted Enchant pages and pages prior but

didn't

vote Enchant until it was safe (look at 290 basically asking Major's permission to join the wagon??) and then were oddly resistant to jumping back off; 333 seems to acknowledge that Enchant's claim most likely comes from town but still leaves the vote there, and 364

still

leaves the vote there (admittedly that was a "sorry I'm busy" post and devoid of content but it's not that hard to write the word "unvote")

Then Dwlee arrives, votes me, and immediately

reassures

me that I can talk them out of it. Something has rubbed me the wrong way about our interactions; it doesn't feel like they're talking to me the way you talk to a scumread. They also continue Lemons' habit of picking at things that are surface-level "bad" but not really scum-indicative: how is my answer to a question like 400 possibly supposed to help anyone sort me? It's just a make-work question, the kind of thing a person

thinks

they should read as scummy but in reality probably shouldn't care about if they actually care about finding scum.

[osuka]

VOTE: T3

Fuck it. I don't want to crossvote Osuka and I would prefer if you guys didn't eliminate town D1.

what do you mean crossvote

[osuka]

ESPECIALLY if Flea is town.

Flea, if you're town, you're pushing on town here. Think about that for a moment and how that might explain some of the gamestate. With you doing the heavy lifting for scum to push people onto a miselimination onto me, they can sorta just... blend in. What other active things have been happening?

This isn't a long game, just 16 pages. I'd encourage people to reread and see the dominant narrative. It has solely centered around me from the start of this game, pretty much -- one of the first real reads expressed after Flea pushed us out of RVS was that people were sus of me for various reasons, and a majority of the dialogue has continued to be about that -- which means scum really don't want to shake up the narrative too much, because from their perspective, they had a townie in the spotlight (me) while I pushed for a wagon on a town PR (Enchant). The goal should be to find who was specifically trying not to rock the boat and seemed content to let the status quo stay as it is (Umlaut, ???).

this is a pretty shit push but i think flea is cult so i'm really not sure how to feel

[osuka]

shit response***

[osuka]

ESPECIALLY if Flea is town.

Flea, if you're town, you're pushing on town here. Think about that for a moment and how that might explain some of the gamestate. With you doing the heavy lifting for scum to push people onto a miselimination onto me, they can sorta just... blend in. What other active things have been happening?

Thank you for your confession.
The gamestate is still fairly decent, the HEAVY resistance to your elimination despite few people expressing an opinion on you tells me there's either scum defending you, or you are scum. Osuka has been defending you, and I'm happy enough in my read on you that you are todays elimination, and the only one in my mind.

I will say this, you have earned a lot of respect from me for your play if you're scum. You've done a good job at adjusting the narratives around you, and I'm pretty sure you're wishing there was a factional kill.
Converting me would be obvious, besides there's the PR to take care of. :)

Question for me is your buddy, Osuka, T3 or Umlaut.

This isn't a long game, just 16 pages. I'd encourage people to reread and see the dominant narrative. It has solely centered around me from the start of this game, pretty much -- one of the first real reads expressed after Flea pushed us out of RVS was that people were sus of me for various reasons, and a majority of the dialogue has continued to be about that -- which means scum really don't want to shake up the narrative too much, because from their perspective, they had a townie in the spotlight (me) while I pushed for a wagon on a town PR (Enchant). The goal should be to find who was specifically trying not to rock the boat and seemed content to let the status quo stay as it is (Umlaut, ???).

Oof the ego is real. You pushed for a wagon on Enchant, who was promptly run up to E-1 with much much less resistance.

I think you picked up the same hints from Enchant as I did, and your push on them tells me you're scum motivated.

where have i been defending that slot? enlighten me, i would love to see you try

[osuka]

I guess we should really start talking in terms of PoEs, given how close we are getting to deadline.

I still think we should be flipping osuka rn. Their ISO highlights include bending my words to try and push me (eg 152), trying to deflect my case on them as OMGUS rather than actually work through it (233), followed by acting like they were super open to questions (315), but then stalling and disappearing when I actually asked questions. I'd genuinely encourage people to go and look back at their ISO (it's not long) and make their own minds up.

Failing that, I'd settle for a compromise elim on T3 or Raya. I don't think they are scum together, but I reckon there is a decent chance that 1 of the 2 could be scum, especially with their recent posting.

I also need to go and look back at the Flea/Major interactions - Major's weird interaction with me where they said I singled them out unfairly but then struggled to back it up was scummy, but their posts otherwise have felt very towny, so I need to look back over why Flea is pushing them and whether it looks like it is in good faith or not.

yeah im sorry about my activity, i have been extremely busy with work. just yesterday, i was working until 3 am my time

that said, ive already addressed everything else youve mentioned here and i won't be doing it again because it's mostly dogshit and i can't be bothered to keep repeating myself

[Marky Mark]

yeah im sorry about my activity, i have been extremely busy with work. just yesterday, i was working until 3 am my time

that said, ive already addressed everything else youve mentioned here and i won't be doing it again because it's mostly dogshit and i can't be bothered to keep repeating myself

Yet again you try to trivialise my points against you by calling it dogshit rather than arguing against it logically. You have 100% not addressed the questions I pointed your way (I guess your insinuation that flea is cult is a partial answer to the one about your reads, but certainly not a comprehensive one) so why act like you were happy to work with me and answer my questions if you're just going to try and trivialise them and bat them away?

[Marky Mark]

Like if you think Flea is scum then why aren't you voting them, and what other reads do you have on the rest of the plist?

[Dwlee99]

I was about to say "Beetlejuice tell" but Beetlejuice is paradoxically so well-known that for someone with a 2014 join date it's effectively an anti-tell

VOTE: Dwlee

I'm suddenly more interested in this than I am in the Major or T3. Lemons' jump onto Enchant is oddly timed in that based on their posts they

should

have voted Enchant pages and pages prior but

didn't

vote Enchant until it was safe (look at 290 basically asking Major's permission to join the wagon??) and then were oddly resistant to jumping back off; 333 seems to acknowledge that Enchant's claim most likely comes from town but still leaves the vote there, and 364

still

leaves the vote there (admittedly that was a "sorry I'm busy" post and devoid of content but it's not that hard to write the word "unvote")

Then Dwlee arrives, votes me, and immediately

reassures

me that I can talk them out of it. Something has rubbed me the wrong way about our interactions; it doesn't feel like they're talking to me the way you talk to a scumread. They also continue Lemons' habit of picking at things that are surface-level "bad" but not really scum-indicative: how is my answer to a question like 400 possibly supposed to help anyone sort me? It's just a make-work question, the kind of thing a person

thinks

they should read as scummy but in reality probably shouldn't care about if they actually care about finding scum.

Homie I voted you because you weren't voting anyone, it was effectively an RVS. Your point that I wasn't talking to you like a scumread is terribad and I think you know it. 400 is getting into the game having skimmed your ISO and name-connecting what you said about the Enchant wagon to what you said. Typically town think about who they're voting with so that you didn't even think about it is really weird to me. I'm more happy with my vote now.

[T3]

major thinks flea is scum but won't vote them.

[Flea The Magician]

Two people think I'm scum but won't vote me, both are slots that are unfamiliar with me and it shows xD

Osuka, why react to my calling out of your weird defences of Major Minor but not theirs? Care to actually contribute to the game?

[Flea The Magician]

I'm happy locking down on Major Minor and Osuka team here. So you'll know if I'm culted.

[Raya36]

They fucked around for most of the day, then started suggesting PRs should just come out and claim on Day 1, then explicitly claimed to have a PR when they had only two votes on them (though as I recall a lot of people agreed they were weird and null at best), then immediately said they changed their mind and no other PRs should claim. This was erratic and suspect enough behavior to get them pushed to L-1 and a full claim extracted; they're a Town Rolestopper. I'm assuming this claim is true since if it weren't someone would be able to counterclaim.

This was quite negative for being about someone you townread in the end

Umlaut you voted with your initial solve onto Enchant (major minor + t3). Why?

I didn't really think about who was or wasn't on the wagon with me (and if I had I hope I still wouldn't have let it sway me). I didn't really have Enchant as anything like a townread in the first place, then 312 really pinged me and made me want to resolve that slot.

Having resolved it, I think there is very likely scum on the Enchant wagon. I can't make up my mind who is most likely but I sort of feel the most town about T3 out of the three now (meaning it's Major Minor and/or you).

Why does T3 feel the most town?

I had a scumlean for sure but it wasn't strong. Sometimes I like to pick at players I scumlean by giving little bits of pressure that way without writing a whole case. Sometimes I post like that as reminders to myself later on, kind of like thinking out loud.

This feels a bit off. It's pretty fence-sitty and markedly different to your progression on T3, where you explictly called out that you had a slight scumread on them from early on.

It's just my posting style, I'm sure you'd notice it if you read some of my other games too. The scumlean on T3 would be more of a full scumread.