Townstumps Mafia (Endgame)

[House]

is no one else seeing how hard it is to get a nk hammer . think we need 7 votes if there is 3 scum here and nither of them are voting nk15 then thats why its takeing so long.

Why is NK scum?

[northsidegal]

NSG wanna talk more about Moon?

I can talk more later. In short, I think I have a lot more authority than you do to talk about moon's behavior here and I you really shouldn't be just dismissing that, especially as "just meta".

[northsidegal]

VOTE: FMFT

Not mafia
Nom
House
Gamma
Cyrus
Feys
Titus
NK15
FMFT
Jjh
Mastina

Yikes.

Nsg the game makes a lot more sense if jjh is scum. Fitting a team around nom doesn't work.

think you can try to explain this one? pretty sure you're just wrong here

[nomnomnom]

What changed your mind about me Moon?

[Moongrass]

NSG wanna talk more about Moon?

I can talk more later. In short, I think I have a lot more authority than you do to talk about moon's behavior here and I you really shouldn't be just dismissing that, especially as "just meta".

I was about to go on a rant about why nsg is next level but I thought I'd save it until post game.

[House]

The mastina/jjh play here reminds me a lot of a scum mastina/RC play from an old TM game.

Honestly, I'm lowkey suspicious of mastina not giving me at least a side eye...

In the past, I was my towniest as scum because I cared more about appearances, and drew more suspicion as town than scum from most players, but mastina could read my "dirty" town play like a book so I'm a little surprised that she's not reacting to my play being so different, now.

[NorwegianboyEE]

NSG wanna talk more about Moon?

I can talk more later. In short, I think I have a lot more authority than you do to talk about moon's behavior here and I you really shouldn't be just dismissing that, especially as "just meta".

I was about to go on a rant about why nsg is next level but I thought I'd save it until post game.

Well i've never played with you before so if NSG is that convinced i'll consider that. But that doesn't mean i'm treating all their words as gospel.

[northsidegal]

shrug

i hate to make comments like that because they're classical hubris and set me up to potentially look stupid if i'm wrong (and just in general it's not how i expect to convince people), but i do think that people are ignoring me in this game just because my reads sort of diverge from consensus and they don't want to deal with that.

[House]

shrug

i hate to make comments like that because they're classical hubris and set me up to potentially look stupid if i'm wrong (and just in general it's not how i expect to convince people), but i do think that people are ignoring me in this game just because my reads sort of diverge from consensus and they don't want to deal with that.

I'm not a fan of consensus reads, because they tend to eliminate town.

[NorwegianboyEE]

shrug

i hate to make comments like that because they're classical hubris and set me up to potentially look stupid if i'm wrong (and just in general it's not how i expect to convince people), but i do think that people are ignoring me in this game just because my reads sort of diverge from consensus and they don't want to deal with that.

Well, convince me.

[Moongrass]

think you can try to explain this one? pretty sure you're just wrong here

I skim read everyone and kept making readlists that made no sense based on potential teams. I kept putting jjh up top and when I shifted him down, the team of FMFT/mastina/jjh didn't look as bad as the others.
Jjh is playing a great game here, but it's too great, almost clinical minus his hiccup at the start defending me.

Nom I think is town based on her interactions that aren't her pushing into me. Her response to you in particular, shifted my read there.

There are plenty of players here that know mastina well enough to not be scumreading her in the dark, and her shift on the hydra was just gross.

If mastina and jjh are not partnered I don't think that nullifies jjh being scum if mastina is just unengaged.

[Moongrass]

Do you have a lot of experience with jjh nsg?

[northsidegal]

Well i've never played with you before so if NSG is that convinced i'll consider that. But that doesn't mean i'm treating all their words as gospel.

for the record, i'm not absolutely convinced that moon is town. the main point that i've been trying to get across is that the main thing that moon seems to be being scumread for (i.e. the crazy read shifts) is not a convincing reason to believe that she's scum. i

just went through this

literally the last game that i played just before this one – i thought the exact same thing that you do now, that there were these crazy read shifts from voting someone to instantly top townreading that person, and moon wouldn't explain them when i asked. i was proven wrong, so now i know that that model for reading moon is ineffective.

[northsidegal]

Do you have a lot of experience with jjh nsg?

pretty much, yeah. as he indicated himself, i have a pretty good (if not perfect) record of correctly reading him as both town or scum here. i understand that his scum meta has improved a lot from the very first game i played with him years ago, but i would still fairly confidently say that his play this game has fallen within his town meta here. even beyond just pure meta, i think that he's made a lot of comments that i would almost never expect from scum.

[nomnomnom]

I'd love to cooperate with you NSG because I know your reads are somewhat sharp, but in this case you believe I am scum, which is obviously wrong, so it's harder for me to do so
I'd like to ask again: Consider a world where I'm town. Where are the scums in that case?
I think I'm warming up on town!moon, possibly, and I think the scums could be elsewhere considering the gamestate, I think a push on FMFT is not a bad idea
VOTE: FMFT

[House]

Well i've never played with you before so if NSG is that convinced i'll consider that. But that doesn't mean i'm treating all their words as gospel.

for the record, i'm not absolutely convinced that moon is town. the main point that i've been trying to get across is that the main thing that moon seems to be being scumread for (i.e. the crazy read shifts) is not a convincing reason to believe that she's scum. i

just went through this

literally the last game that i played just before this one – i thought the exact same thing that you do now, that there were these crazy read shifts from voting someone to instantly top townreading that person, and moon wouldn't explain them when i asked. i was proven wrong, so now i know that that model for reading moon is ineffective.

I can see that.

Taking my interaction with Moon as an example, where she was townreading me, then trying to build a wagon on me when I derped on my read, back to placing me as a high townread when I got my head straight on the issue she was pushing me over.

There was a lot of swing there if you ignored the context, but it makes sense when you also know the details.

[Moongrass]

Nsg could you point out one of those comments? I'm not afraid to go back to the drawing board.

[northsidegal]

even beyond just pure meta, i think that he's made a lot of comments that i would almost never expect from scum.

for instance, this comment:

Sadly, you are mistaken. I cannot be elimed in this game, because this is a shining example of my towngame and NSG is one of the treestumps

i think that someone who is scum and in the position that jjh is in this game would almost never make this comment. i say this in part based on my own experience – as someone with relatively distinct town and scum metas (as jjh also is), making this comment would just not be something that i'd do. in games where i'm scum, i recognize that my play is going to be distinct from what people expect of my town play, so i would either try to get ahead of it by making some excuse about why my play is different in advance (such as "i'm trying a new playstyle") or i would just never so confidently declare that i'm playing my town game. furthermore, there

have

been games where i've made almost exactly the same comment as town: that i am unambiguously playing my towngame and that other people in the playerlist who know me should recognize this and would never vote for me.

[northsidegal]

I'd love to cooperate with you NSG because I know your reads are somewhat sharp, but in this case you believe I am scum, which is obviously wrong, so it's harder for me to do so

i think that you said earlier that you didn't care to try to convince me that you were town. i'm curious – why is that?

[nomnomnom]

I think largely this is the type of gamestate where scums could be very happy lurking the game out considering the high amount of noise that has happened with certain slots, so I think i'd be satisfied with pushes going FMFT and Titus' way.

[northsidegal]

I think I'm warming up on town!moon, possibly, and I think the scums could be elsewhere considering the gamestate, I think a push on FMFT is not a bad idea

i don't believe this, for the record.

[Moongrass]

I do get it- if you want to elim in me or Mastina then you have to claim that we're both aligned since we've locktowned each other

Sadly, you are mistaken. I cannot be elimed in this game, because this is a shining example of my towngame and NSG is one of the treestumps

The second part of this post so strongly reminds me of scum RC.

[northsidegal]

almost nobody on site plays like scum RC, the comment may be similar but using that as a model for evaluation doesn't make sense because jjh isn't an RC-like player.

[nomnomnom]

I'd love to cooperate with you NSG because I know your reads are somewhat sharp, but in this case you believe I am scum, which is obviously wrong, so it's harder for me to do so

i think that you said earlier that you didn't care to try to convince me that you were town. i'm curious – why is that?

Perhaps a better way to put it is I wouldn't know how to convince you. I'm happy to respond to things you think indicates scum!me or even if you were to make a case on me so I can respond to it, but in this state I think it would be a pointless exercise.
I'm happy to have a back and forth if that's what you wanna do, but in this case I'm just going *shrug* and moving on because there's not much else to say here, aside from getting you to see the game from my own pov and seeing how your reads would shift then.

[Moongrass]

That's also not the only post where he points to you townreading him as a reason he's town.

If I had rolled scum here I'd be playing to make sure nsg and mastina townread me.