Townstumps Mafia (Endgame)

[northsidegal]

i would also argue that even if i don't justify something, if my just saying something brings it up as a possibility in people's mind and they investigate it themselves and come to my same conclusion, that can still be an instance of playing effectively

[House]

This is probably going to make nsg feel depressed or something but I can't help but have the feeling this game has done a 180 on me ever since she made that "nom is scum" post
Power of influence eh?

Seems to disprove mastina's theory that voteless players have no influence.

[northsidegal]

for the record, i don't really tend to do that intentionally, it just could be said to still be playing effectively.

[northsidegal]

This is probably going to make nsg feel depressed or something but I can't help but have the feeling this game has done a 180 on me ever since she made that "nom is scum" post
Power of influence eh?

Seems to disprove mastina's theory that voteless players have no influence.

i think you're misrepresenting the point mastina was making. my understanding of her point was that some players have their influence manifest through their vote more than others. for instance, i think a lot of people would agree that a lot of NM's influence in a game is manifested through his vote, so taking that away from him would take away a lot of his influence as a player. her conclusion was then that the best stumps were players who had a minimal amount of influence removed from the removal of a vote.

[nomnomnom]

i would also argue that even if i don't justify something, if my just saying something brings it up as a possibility in people's mind and they investigate it themselves and come to my same conclusion, that can still be an instance of playing effectively

If that's how you wanna see it...
How I see it is that you've said that, and now 3 people have taken that opportunity to vote me and none of them have provided a case on me after I challenged them to do it.
I will actually be shocked if it turns out that all 3 of House/Moon/Hydra are town because from how I see it there must be some opportunism involved in there.
And to be fair this isn't even about the reasons for voting me themselves that actually interests me. What I am pointing out is that these 3 have straight up refused to elaborate on their reasoning at all.
I refuse to believe this is all town.

[nomnomnom]

I'm actually kinda disappointed, in the back of my mind I thought to myself "nsg is potentially only not elaborating on this read just to see what the reaction of people would be to that and see the movements" but I guess that isn't the case. Oh well

[House]

i think you're misrepresenting the point mastina was making.

Disagree.

A vote is not the deciding factor that mastina is claiming. Pressure is. An immortal town scumhunter with the ability to constantly influence votes is much more beneficial than a single vote that can be killed off.

And I am arguing that an immortal town scumhunter who lacks votes innately inherently has less ability to influence votes and generate pressure than a town scumhunter who has a vote, especially when that player is a pressure/high-aggro style player.

Constant influence might be constant, but it is something that generates a different aura. There is a big difference between influence without a vote and influence with a vote.

There is also a big difference between pressure with a vote and pressure without a vote.

I am also arguing that forcing scum to kill players whose votes are a threat is a feature not a flaw, and that treestumping said players is doing the scum a favor by removing the votes they would be most afraid of.

mastina acts like a single vote is this magical force to be reckoned with, but that vote goes away (and the voice silenced) when the player dies.

An immortal skilled scumhunter doesn't need their own vote. They need the support of their town.

[Titus]

VOTE: FMFT

Not mafia
Nom
House
Gamma
Cyrus
Feys
Titus
NK15
FMFT
Jjh
Mastina

Firstly, how'd nom jump to the top this time? This is the second time one of your prior suspects has moved to the very top. I also noticed this post:

Cyrus what's the best point you have on JJH being scum?

around the time of your previous readlist. I don't feel like this makes sense with the fact you had jjh and cyrus as confident townreads at that time? The logical explanations for this post existing are questioning cyrus or considering voting jjh, neither of which matches with the stated reads at that time.

I disagree with the second part, but this is a towny post.

[Titus]

I think both those groups are aligned, with nm/fey being less strongly aligned. So either TvT or SvS like:

Jjh
Mastina
House
Gamma
Cyrus
FMFT
Titus
NK15
Nom
Not mafia
Feys

Or the inverse:

Not mafia
Feys
NK15
House
Gamma
Cyrus
FMFT
Titus
Nom
Jjh
Mastina

I read this post like 6 times and I don't get it.

[Titus]

If I had rolled scum here I'd be playing to make sure nsg and mastina townread me.

Very good point actually.

There's no point in playing to mastina. It's an empty slot, even more so than me.

wdym "empty slot"? masinta has been active at times

Due to her vla, she has no relevant, recent content. Putting her up to an empty slot is an improvement as her prior posting with jjh was scummy.

[Titus]

VOTE: FMFT

This is what my cursory look at the votes tells me if I can't get jjh.

[House]

VOTE: FMFT

This is what my cursory look at the votes tells me if I can't get jjh.

Not terrible, but I prefer nummy nomnomnom.

If we're SvS, why won't you help me bus?

[nomnomnom]

VOTE: FMFT

This is what my cursory look at the votes tells me if I can't get jjh.

Not terrible, but I prefer nummy nomnomnom.

If we're SvS, why won't you help me bus?

Wait actually you make a good point, why isn't her vote on me and you if she believes we're both scum lol

[Not Known 15]

Okay Cyrus is 100% town.
There is absolutely no way scum!cyrus makes this kind of confrontational post from the get go.
scum!cyrus from my experience is also someone who is entirely focused on themselves in a game and will largely talk about why a player is voting them etc, for that reason, this kind of post is massive +town for cyrus

Cyrus what's the best point you have on JJH being scum?

why all the vote hoping?

Fairly sure about this.

I'll defend this tooth and nail considering cyrus is hard mislimbait material

Then let's say 90% town, yes?

These series of posts tend express a townie mindset, more often than not. Do you not agree with this? @Moon

What happened to this?

Yeah good point...
VOTE: Mia and Maya Fey

[Titus]

VOTE: FMFT

This is what my cursory look at the votes tells me if I can't get jjh.

Not terrible, but I prefer nummy nomnomnom.

If we're SvS, why won't you help me bus?

I'm not sure you are. I have theories in my head regarding things, but I'm at the spitball stage. I'm open to it, but I'd rather test out my other theories first.

[Moongrass]

I think there's clearly a split in the game with jjh mastina on one side and Fey nm on the other. If both groups are town then the game gets tricky.

I'm unsure I follow that logic.

Moonlogic isn't for everyone.

Elaborate more on this split. I can handle moonlogic.

I wouldn't want to embarrass myself in front of the OG. But seriously I'd like to get at least one flip so I don't have every option to explain. In a nut shell it comes down to who will and won't vote whom with who.

[Moongrass]

Titus - townreads/leans?

[Titus]

Titus
mastina - scum lean
cyrus62, replacing KorVex - strong town lean
jjh927 - moderate scum lean
Mia and Maya Fey (NancyDrew/DKKoba Hydra) - null
Not_Mafia - null
DrippingGoofball - scum obv
northsidegal - guilty child
Free Money Free Tea - weak scum
House - weak town
NorwegianboyEE - the other guilty child
Moongrass - weak town
Gamma Emerald - town
nomnomnom - weak scum
Not Known 15 - null (wanting to see how wagons shake), would vote

[cyrus62]

Titus
mastina - scum lean
cyrus62, replacing KorVex - strong town lean
jjh927 - moderate scum lean
Mia and Maya Fey (NancyDrew/DKKoba Hydra) - null
Not_Mafia - null
DrippingGoofball - scum obv
northsidegal - guilty child
Free Money Free Tea - weak scum
House - weak town
NorwegianboyEE - the other guilty child
Moongrass - weak town
Gamma Emerald - town
nomnomnom - weak scum
Not Known 15 - null (wanting to see how wagons shake), would vote

Your joking right. This post is like so off the wall it makes me look like a normal player. And that's something coming from me . I'm on my phone again so I'm going have to re look. Titus was one of the 6 when I made my game solved post though.

[cyrus62]

Sorry, I'm not likely to be on today.

X post all games.

titus i am exasperating alot more from you after seeing that i have the game down to 5 people as possible scum.

Which are?

titus, nk15, nm, moon and gamma.

Yep Titus is one of my 5 nice to know

[cyrus62]

13 and are we positive there are only 3 scum

[nomnomnom]

Your joking right. This post is like so off the wall it makes me look like a normal player

[Gamma Emerald]

13 and are we positive there are only 3 scum

It’s public setup info bro

[Titus]

DGB and the two stump reads were not serious.

[Titus]

P.S. i'm not normal.