Newbie 2069: Summertime [game over!]

[Illwei]

Sorry, yeah. Non Alignment Indicative

Basically Italian's questioning feels uberpointless because he's asking a question that doesn't need to be asked
Bak could have had some sort of scummy answer to that question, but really never a towny one.

[Illwei]

Then again RVS is for uberpointless questions so realistically I can't fault someone for that

Nora latched on quick to some things which while they feel opportunistic in a way, I'm going to give some town points for moving out of RVS for now

[Illwei]

VOTE: Roden

[StrangeMatter]

I definitely don't like ItalianoVD's questions so far. He's been asking questions, but they've been weird and not reasonable questions or even useful.

[StrangeMatter]

VOTE: ItalianoVD

[Noraa]

Bulge get back into this thread right this instant. I need a new opinion because I'm having trouble sorting some of this content.

Also I agree very much that ita's questions haven't been the hottest. Like why would anyone respond to a RVS vote. Thats kinda weird unless he specifically found the vote to be scummy but like .... :/
I think some parts of RVS can be sorted. A random vote smack dab at the beginning of RVS does not strike me as something that can be read into.

I just got out of a game where I told myself ita was town for the whole game and just refused to see him as scum which ultimately gave him a lot longer to live than he deserved to(since a lot of people SRed him and I just shut them all down). I also know he's known to be LHF and often gets elimmed early in games due to his "scummy play style" I put that in quotations because typically I find him pretty towny. Idk I think the fact that he's getting heat now might be town indicative but scum games aren't always the same every game around since playerlist really matters. I find that newbies tend to pay attention to a lot of things that non newbies don't pay attention to and its possible that they caught something that just flew over my head. Bulge do you have thoughts?

Strangematter, the reason why im asking bulge's thoughts is because I really care about what his reads are here. I tend to have trouble reading newbies because a lot of the times I find them VERY scummy for bad reasons that might be AI for more seasoned players but completely and utterly NAI for newbies. I also haven't played with bulge in a while so im very interested in hearing thoughts from him. Ita, I am still paranoid about from our last game together so I will be asking for bulges thoughts pretty often probably. SE posts in newbie games help me get a better perspective on things because often times newbies just confuse me a lot and SEs help bring me back like "It's ok noraa. that's normal for newbies. stop freaking out over nothing etc etc"

Then again RVS is for uberpointless questions so realistically I can't fault someone for that

Nora latched on quick to some things which while they feel opportunistic in a way, I'm going to give some town points for moving out of RVS for now

I find this funny because I find your vote on Roden to be way more opportunistic than anything else that has happened in this game. I don't know what you're trying to do here tbh but im alright with it because im still scum leaning Roden atm. I'm hoping to get some more things out of roden before dropping my vote because I have this feeling that im wrong on Roden. I feel like his refusal to cooperate with me might be town indicative. Like its really frustrating because I truly am just trying to ask him questions to figure out his alignment and his constant refusal makes me really want to SR him. At the same time, I feel like I see that coming from town more than scum so im really conflicted. Scum that cares about their survival would be more likely to just go with what im saying and trying to get on my good side here I think. Overall, im still not a fan but im getting second thoughts on this read atm.

[Noraa]

Bak could have had some sort of scummy answer to that question, but really never a towny one.

I don't understand this logic at all. What do you mean?

[ItalianoVD]

Right now, it's more or less due to their interactions that I think that. But right now, I'm not really sure if either of them are scum right now.

I will say that it would look bad if one of them flips red at some point.

Aight. And who would it look bad for? What do you think of Roden’s vote on you?

This question is a bit weird. It would look bad for the person who did not get voted. I don't see why you would ask this question if you can figure out the answer without me needing to say it. As for what I think of Roden's vote on me, it's pressure, so its nothing new there. I'm not too sure what they mean by defensive in that post though, which I do find a little weird.

I initially thought it would look bad for you the way you worded it so I was asking who were talking about?

[ItalianoVD]

Hello hello everyone. I would like to say GLHF!

No response to your vote?

How am I supposed to respond to a random vote?

I don’t know, but I usually see some type of response to votes and pressure even though it’s RVS.

[ItalianoVD]

I don’t give analysis when I ask questions, that’s why I ask questions. I also don’t assume things because it annoys me to no end when people do it to me so I ask questions so people can actually answer them.

Can you define "assuming things" because I feel like at least a whole big part of mafia is based on assuming things, even if the assumptions are more of educated guesses?

Educated guesses are fine but I’m talking about there being a couple interpretations of something (post, interaction, etc.) and it’s assumed only from one side of the coin, like when someone assumes you are scum when you’re not because of a post and then locks in and doesn’t see anything from a town perspective at all. Like I said it’s annoying and I hate when it’s done to me so I know it’s annoying for other people and so I try not to do it, but I will say it’s a null action from me since I do it as both alignments so don’t read into like it means anything read wise.

[Roden]

I'm hoping to get some more things out of roden before dropping my vote because I have this feeling that im wrong on Roden. I feel like his refusal to cooperate with me might be town indicative. Like its really frustrating because I truly am just trying to ask him questions to figure out his alignment and his constant refusal makes me really want to SR him. At the same time, I feel like I see that coming from town more than scum so im really conflicted. Scum that cares about their survival would be more likely to just go with what im saying and trying to get on my good side here I think. Overall, im still not a fan but im getting second thoughts on this read atm.

Nora, what are you even talking about here? I've been answering your questions, and I even made a big post answering even more of your questions and clarifying my intentions and your misunderstandings. You haven't even acknowledged that yet, I feel like that's even more frustrating. It should never be alignment indicative just because someone doesn't want to play your game, especially when you're basing your suspicions on very little.

Your attempts to keep scum reading me just look scummy on your part instead fmpov. Your refusal to acknowledge my responses only add on to that. If you keep pushing a pointless wagon just because you didn't get your way, you'll be the one in the hot seat when I flip green.

[Roden]

VOTE: Roden

Ah. I wonder who'd take the coveted middle vote on my wagon.

Mind telling me why you put a naked vote on a wagon? You're not adding any pressure, and you're not giving us any content here either.

VOTE: Illwei

This isn't OMGUS. This is a serious vote. Scum want middle votes more than anything since they think it doesn't look as bad as a wagon starter or an E-1 or hammer vote. The fact you're just voting while adding nothing makes it even more scum indicative to me.

[StrangeMatter]

I'm wondering, @Italiano, why do you keep asking questions such as asking about people's votes or RVS like they mean something?

[The Bulge]

However, #25 and #26 are reasonable concerns. But I won't rule out the possibility that scum could've jumped on it to look town either.

What makes you think it wasn't just RVS to gauge your reaction? Not sure why you got so defensive, you weren't in any danger of being voted out.

where did Strangematter get defensive? I don't see what youre seeing.

also, a note, asking specific game-related questions is by definition not-RVS.

[The Bulge]

However, #25 and #26 are reasonable concerns. But I won't rule out the possibility that scum could've jumped on it to look town either.

You think both scum would jump on the same thing at the same time?

I meant that it is a completely possible, and while not likely, should not be ignored. Leaving out part of someone's thoughts without a good reason, to me often just comes off as if they're hiding something, or could be actively trying to deceive others.

what are you referring to in the second sentence here?

[The Bulge]

I think you're reading too much into RVS.

VOTE: StrangeMatter

is that why you voted them?

[The Bulge]

Noraa v Roden reading strongly tvt to me (noraa's gonna love this post )

[Noraa]

Noraa v Roden reading strongly tvt to me (noraa's gonna love this post )

Bulge ur getting a fat kick in the shins. Ok but why?

[Noraa]

I am very conflicted on Roden. I could see this going either way 100%. Convince me.

[StrangeMatter]

However, #25 and #26 are reasonable concerns. But I won't rule out the possibility that scum could've jumped on it to look town either.

You think both scum would jump on the same thing at the same time?

I meant that it is a completely possible, and while not likely, should not be ignored. Leaving out part of someone's thoughts without a good reason, to me often just comes off as if they're hiding something, or could be actively trying to deceive others.

what are you referring to in the second sentence here?

I'm not entirely sure what you mean.

[The Bulge]

Right now, it's more or less due to their interactions that I think that. But right now, I'm not really sure if either of them are scum right now.

I will say that it would look bad if one of them flips red at some point.

Aight. And who would it look bad for? What do you think of Roden’s vote on you?

This question is a bit weird. It would look bad for the person who did not get voted. I don't see why you would ask this question if you can figure out the answer without me needing to say it. As for what I think of Roden's vote on me, it's pressure, so its nothing new there. I'm not too sure what they mean by defensive in that post though, which I do find a little weird.

do you really not see the merit in asking people questions in the game of mafia??

pedit - Who is leaving out their thoughts on what?

[Noraa]

VOTE: Roden

Ah. I wonder who'd take the coveted middle vote on my wagon.

Mind telling me why you put a naked vote on a wagon? You're not adding any pressure, and you're not giving us any content here either.

VOTE: Illwei

This isn't OMGUS. This is a serious vote. Scum want middle votes more than anything since they think it doesn't look as bad as a wagon starter or an E-1 or hammer vote. The fact you're just voting while adding nothing makes it even more scum indicative to me.

That was the second vote lmao. What do you mean coveted middle vote?
VOTE: Roden
It's time for some real pressure. I think that I haven't heard anything that strongly screams town to me and I'm unwilling to just let you go like that. I want to hear something towny down to it's core otherwise I think I'm going to just believe you are scum. I keep going back and forth but imma drop this vote and see what happens. I think this is a good wagon to start the game with. Nothing like some pressure and a growing wagon to shake things up.

[The Bulge]

Noraa I have to run for now, my break is up, but Roden's responses to you read extremely genuine to me and tonally town. I can probably go more in depth later but I'm not sure theres a whole lot else to it

[Noraa]

do you really not see the merit in asking people questions in the game of mafia??

It depends on the question. A lot of Italiano's questions have been very much pointless. But I do agree with you that leaving out thoughts isn't scum indicative. It's not that NAI but if it could be considered AI, it for sure is town indicative and not scum indicative. Town have more incentive to try to trick scum into their traps than scum have to not be completely transparent.

[Noraa]

Noraa I have to run for now, my break is up, but Roden's responses to you read extremely genuine to me and tonally town. I can probably go more in depth later but I'm not sure theres a whole lot else to it

I find them somewhat genuine aside from a couple things that just didn't add up that well in my head. I will think about it though. When you get more time, I'd love to here more because this has been bothering me for all of yesterday and now today.