doubt.jpgIn post 599, humaneatingmonkey wrote:Very
Newbie 2066: Gelato 2 -- End!
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T3 He/himSurvivorHe/him
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T3 He/himSurvivorHe/him
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humaneatingmonkey
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Vaxkiller Jack of All Trades
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You seem rather confident T3 is scum, like on a level where you would be really familiar with their scum game.-
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humaneatingmonkey Survivor
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GuyInFreezer Magical Girl
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Busy today rl so I won’t really be on until tonightShow"I used to think you had this elegant-trolly, minimalist playstyle. Then I realized the playstyle is ~Lazy~
The true enlightenment was realizing that they are the same thing."
~fferyllt
"who the fuck fakeclaims Tracker like that
WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT"
~Alisae-
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GuyInFreezer Magical Girl
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I really didn’t want to bother with outside games to read ppl but if the meta is that damning I guess I’ll need to give them a read soon.Show"I used to think you had this elegant-trolly, minimalist playstyle. Then I realized the playstyle is ~Lazy~
The true enlightenment was realizing that they are the same thing."
~fferyllt
"who the fuck fakeclaims Tracker like that
WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT"
~Alisae-
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Umlaut Jack of All Trades
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Here's every wagon of at least 3 votes from Day 1. (I'm coloring myself green because I'm town, if you don't like it make your own list.)
- Clasko (3): Roden, Vaxkiller, Rockhopper
sang froid (3): Vaxkiller, Rockhopper,NotAJumbleOfNumbers
Rockhopper (4): Clasko,sang froid, T3, Roden
Vaxkiller (4): Rockhopper, Roden,sang froid,NotAJumbleOfNumbers
JohnnyFarrar (5):sang froid, GuyInFreezer,NotAJumbleOfNumbers, Rockhopper, Roden
Roden's votes- Clasko:RVS, not really possible to interpret.
- Rockhopper:Roden put this wagon at L-1 in 139. Based on that and previous posts this was primarily for the sake of "advancing the game" and not for any strong scumread on Rock. See in particular 90, 108, 113 for Roden's conflicted read on that slot. Only after this point did Roden start asserting a significant scumread there (see 189, saying this as he unvotes him!) which as far as I can see he has stuck to ever since.
- Vaxkiller:Roden put this wagon at L-3 in 241 seemingly based on GIF's case directly above. (GIF himself was not actually even voting Vax at this time; the only one voting him was Rockhopper.) Vax had been in his nullreads as of 160, and seemed to still be at worst null as of 223 given Roden's tone toward him; 228 put Vax at "I could vote if I see a strong enough case" and I guess GIF's case was strong enough for him. After the vote, 286 suggested he lacked confidence Vax was scum but wanted to keep his vote there for pressure; this pressure never really materialized since Vax was afk the whole time he was at L-1. Roden never did move his vote from Vax right up until he hammered Johnny.
- JohnnyFarrar:Hammered in 391, about an hour after giving intent, which was about 20 minutes after L-1) Not much to say about the wagon itself, it was unfortunate but understandable. Even with time running out, the hammer seems premature to me (there was over a day left on the clock by my count) and it's striking that Roden was so quick to join his top scumread in voting Johnny out.
Rockhopper's votes- Clasko:Voted in 26 as his first post of the game. RVS, like Roden's vote, though as an L-2 this vote might admitsomeinterpretation. Rockhopper did give a "reason" (OMGUS) but he didn't really stick to the vote once the game got moving so I would guess this was just wagoning for its own sake as a game-starting device.
- sang froid:Second vote onto the wagon, in 59. Taking SF's joke PR claim as "PR bait" is not an interpretation I would ever have of that post, but it's not unthinkable and it's a decent reason for a not-entirely-random vote.
- Vaxkiller:Started the wagon, with 153; motivation pretty transparently being "sang wagon isn't happening so let's try something else." This is not the best look considering Rock himself was under pressure at this time and it can be interpreted as flailing for a counterwagon, but note Rock never really pushesthathard to get that counterwagon going so it's hard to really see that as his strategy. Rock stays here until moving to Clasko in 367 after having it pointed out Clasko is supposed to be his top scumread according to his read list in
282.
- JohnnyFarrar:voted in 389 without justification given but it was pretty clear from context that this was just going along with the growing consensus that Johnny had to be dealt with one way or another.
“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,and the other kind,’ and those whodon’tsay. Well, then there’s me.” — J.R. “Bob” Dobbs-
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Umlaut Jack of All Trades
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After putting together the above, my reads on Roden and Rockhopper have just about reversed from where they were shortly after replace-in. Rockhopper has some surface-level scummy moments D1, but they don't fit any sort of agenda and can easily just be town faux pas. Roden jumped onevery one of thesewhich is exactly what I expect scum looking for a justifiable scumread to do, and he has held onto that justifiable scumread ever since while in practice voting with whatever wagon was convenient. Rockhopper was also on those wagons but his vote on Vaxkiller can hardly be calledconvenientand his vote on Johnny is much more consonant with the gamestate and his own stated positions than Roden's is.
VOTE: Roden
This is likely scum. (But if not, HEM is.)“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,and the other kind,’ and those whodon’tsay. Well, then there’s me.” — J.R. “Bob” Dobbs-
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Roden He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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Yeah my vote on Johnny wasn't good. I wanted either Rock or Vax out, but we'd run so low on time and in general we were all feeling pressured to just send a wagon at that point. All the momentum had evaporated from my scum reads' wagons and it didn't look like I was going to be able to convince anyone to go back. But there was also just a frustration with Johnny at that point, and I don't think anyone could have ever expected that a PR would VLA and prod dodge all game. Especially since he had to know by the end that we were all suspecting him.
If you think there's like a scum between me and Rock/HEM, I'm 100% down to just vote him at this point. I've been pushing the slot for awhile but GIF really doesn't seem to think either of us are scum. Both me and Rock/HEM both suspect Vax as well, so that also contributed to it, since in my case I'm just confident there's a scum between Rock/HEM and Vax.
Just want to point out that I didn't just jump on wagons. I feel like you're leaving out context because any wagon I did vote on, I pushed for people scum reading them to actually explain the read. Rock meanwhile jumped from vote to vote, to wagon to wagon, to hero solve to hero solve, and often gave very little justification each time. That was the main reason I honed in on the slot, it looked clear to me that he was just doing whatever he could to survive instead of actually attempting to scum hunt.Umlaut wrote:After putting together the above, my reads on Roden and Rockhopper have just about reversed from where they were shortly after replace-in. Rockhopper has some surface-level scummy moments D1, but they don't fit any sort of agenda and can easily just be town faux pas. Roden jumped onevery one of thesewhich is exactly what I expect scum looking for a justifiable scumread to do, and he has held onto that justifiable scumread ever since while in practice voting with whatever wagon was convenient. Rockhopper was also on those wagons but his vote on Vaxkiller can hardly be calledconvenientand his vote on Johnny is much more consonant with the gamestate and his own stated positions than Roden's is.
VOTE: Roden
This is likely scum. (But if not, HEM is.)
Again, I keep pushing for my scum reads, but the momentum just isn't there. Too much focus has been on Vax and Clasko/VFP. However, I haven't just been sheeping GIF since I have stuck to my guns and continued town read Clasko/VFP (though a little less confidently on VFP admittedly). If I really was as opportunistic as you're claiming, I would've just pushed GIF's scum reads at this point since he's clearly more influential than me.-
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Roden He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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After seeing HEM's recent posts, I think I was on point with this. His push on T3 looks like a desperate bus attempt for town cred after getting backed into a corner.In post 470, Roden wrote:I can't promise zero hesitation, but I'll feel a lot better about it. If Rock flips red I think it looks bad for you GIF, but I have a feeling Rock's partner in this case could be T3. I mentioned it earlier that someone may have made a meta tell, and I believe that was when T3 put a pointless vote on Rock at the end Day 1. It looks looked like distancing tbh, and his push on Rock now could potentially be a bus for town cred.
However, if Rock flips green then I feel a lot more confident locking you and T3 as town. And since we're both town reading Jumble's slot, that really would just leave your reads as PoE.
VOTE: Rockhopper-
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humaneatingmonkey Survivor
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humaneatingmonkey Survivor
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Roden He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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Because voting T3 over you makes no sense when I'm confident there's one scum between you and Vax. A T3 flip that turns green doesn't clear you, doesn't address Umlaut's reads, and does nothing to prove or disprove GIF's locked reads. A T3 flip that turns red just implicates you at this point, which does nothing for anyone's reads since you're already a common factor in many scum pools.In post 611, humaneatingmonkey wrote:So then just vote T3 with me if you agree with me
This is just a weird request in general anyway since the only scum read your slot shared with me is Vax, and that was to clear your name. It makes zero sense to wagon people associated with you instead of just voting you, or really anyone getting heavily scum read. If you're town, why would we vote anyone who would be scum by association with you?
You clearly didn't read my ISO then. I stated Day 1 that I was looking for his meta tells, and the pointless vote on your slot at the end of Day 1 pinged me.humaneatingmonkey wrote:What's your case on T3, Roden? I searched your ISO for "T3" and I haven't found any besides thinking he's scum because he's my partner.-
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humaneatingmonkey Survivor
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Roden He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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???In post 614, humaneatingmonkey wrote:...why will you vote people based on other people's reads? you said so yourself that T3 pings you.
How is this even a question? A major point of this game is trying to figure out who's reads are genuine, who's are fabricated, and who's actually on point. Discerning which is which for each player can and will win games. Unless I claim to hero solve or have 100% accurate proof that I know who the scum are, I can't be certain that I'm actually right. If someone builds a case that I feel is stronger than my ownandis someone that I feel confident reading as town, then yes of course I will vote with them. For instance, there was absolutely no point in continuing to push your slot Day 1 when not only did GIF make a compelling case against his scum reads, the majority of the other players also believed the same. If I'm just stubborn and lock my vote in no matter what, that's 100% anti-town in my eyes.
Furthermore, why do you keep talking around the point that T3 pings me byassociationwith you? It wasn't an individually scummy thing that he did, but an associatively scummy tell. But if I'm wrong on about you, then that tell means nothing.-
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Roden He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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humaneatingmonkey Survivor
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Can you explain this to me?In post 609, Roden wrote:'m just confident there's a scum between Rock/HEM and Vax.-
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Roden He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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This is a bit of a mixture between scum reading both of you, Rock's reaction to me agreeing to vote Vax when he hero solved me with Vax, and GIF's scum pool. I don't know if GIF is 100% correct in his scum reads since I do feel strongly on Clasko/VFP being town, but I do think he honed in on at least one scum. When Rock hero solved me and Vax, he quickly backed off when I gave my rebuttal on his scum read towards me but agreed with him that Vax was likely scum. FMPOV, it made me think that if Rock was scum, he wouldn't pair me with his partner, and that if he knows Vax is actually town then it doesn't leave him with any more defenses other than that he thinks I'm scum. When I later stated that I thought there had to be one scum between Rock and Vax, he damn near flipped his read on Vax entirely and instead hero solved me with T3. Which, interestingly enough, happenedIn post 617, humaneatingmonkey wrote:
Can you explain this to me?In post 609, Roden wrote:'m just confident there's a scum between Rock/HEM and Vax.afterT3 voted Rock at the end of Day 1. That's where my bus town cred theory comes from.
However, if your slot is town, then the simple explanation is that Rock just OMGUS voted and hero solved anyone who scum read him. Me agreeing to vote Vax might've spooked him into thinking I was either trying to bus my scum buddy, or perhaps make him think he got his hero solve partially wrong since he was so sure I had to be scum. If that's the case, if the Rock slot is actually town and I agree with GIF that Vax looks scummy, then that's the most likely player to flip red.
You're definitely playing differently than Rock did though, and you're much harder to get a read on. Your push on T3 does me think I was right to suspect your slot is paired with him, but you're also not really pushing me either. You also agreed earlier that Vax looked scummy too, which pulls me in the direction that your slot could actually be town.-
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humaneatingmonkey Survivor
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Roden He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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Uh, it's when a player thinks they know who all the scum are, but I usually see it getting used jokingly. Rock seemed serious though. I'm surprised you don't know what that is seeing as you've been on this site longer than I've been.In post 619, humaneatingmonkey wrote:what's a hero solve, roden?-
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humaneatingmonkey Survivor
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Why wouldn't scum!Rock, in your POV, pair you with his scum partner?In post 618, Roden wrote:When Rock hero solved me and Vax, he quickly backed off when I gave my rebuttal on his scum read towards me but agreed with him that Vax was likely scum. FMPOV, it made me think that if Rock was scum, he wouldn't pair me with his partner, and that if he knows Vax is actually town then it doesn't leave him with any more defenses other than that he thinks I'm scum.-
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humaneatingmonkey Survivor
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I have never heard that term ever before.In post 620, Roden wrote:I'm surprised you don't know what that is seeing as you've been on this site longer than I've been.-
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Roden He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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Because if the three of us have the most focus Day 1 and there's two scum between us, scum just loses. If we vote out Vax first and they flip red, Rock and I would still continue to pressure each other on Day 2. In this hypothetical scenario, if I actually get voted out then my last words will have been to vote Rock as everyone sees my slot turn green. I don't see how scum!Rock expects to live past Day 3 in this scenario where Vax is his scum buddy.In post 621, humaneatingmonkey wrote:
Why wouldn't scum!Rock, in your POV, pair you with his scum partner?In post 618, Roden wrote:When Rock hero solved me and Vax, he quickly backed off when I gave my rebuttal on his scum read towards me but agreed with him that Vax was likely scum. FMPOV, it made me think that if Rock was scum, he wouldn't pair me with his partner, and that if he knows Vax is actually town then it doesn't leave him with any more defenses other than that he thinks I'm scum.
Weird, I keep seeing that term get thrown around every game I'm in.In post 622, humaneatingmonkey wrote:
I have never heard that term ever before.In post 620, Roden wrote:I'm surprised you don't know what that is seeing as you've been on this site longer than I've been.-
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Roden He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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