Newbie 2066: Gelato 2 -- End!

[Umlaut]

Well, you did give me a pagetop so there's that going for you...

[Roden]

This is my actual nightmare scenario. I fucking knew we were going to be the final three if it wasn't Vax.

Umlaut I saw your PR crumbs too. It was really obvious but it only added to my paranoia that HEM could actually be town and that you were going for a big brain play. I honestly hoped you were scum, since even if it meant my read on HEM was wrong then at least it didn't seem to be a guaranteed loss for town. Because if you were town and HEM was scum, you already had said you would vote me over HEM. My heart sank when I got your FN message.

I'm going to take my time with this, because I'm not nearly as sure in reality of Roden over HEM as I acted like I was on d2.

This makes me feel a little less defeated at least, but I don't think you're going to vote HEM. He just convinced everyone to auto wagon Vax, even GIF who'd already said Vax would be confirmed town if T3 flipped as scum. Rock was almost a guaranteed elim on Day 2 but HEM completely switched that around almost effortlessly. Meanwhile, I've tried to push the slot literally all game and it never went through. He's just better at the game and I can't match that. And please don't take this as AtE because that's not what I'm trying to do here, I genuinely just don't think I can out-convince him. That's the exact reason why it's the three of us here. HEM knows he can out talk me and that you were already set to vote me over him, this is the best possible situation for him.

My break's over, but I'll have more to say later. All I can do at this point is try to reason with you about things that just don't make sense. I'll leave you with this for now:

Do you think it makes any sense at all for me to bring you to a final three scenario if I'm scum? Why do I spare you and kill GIF when he not only hard town read me all game long, but also said he would likely vote Rock/HEM if Vax flipped green? Who does this final three benefit more: me or HEM?

[humaneatingmonkey]

10/10 Roden nice post

[Roden]

Forgot to do this so quick vote.

VOTE: humaneatingmonkey

[Roden]

Umlaut, on which night did you send a message to Rock/HEM?

[Umlaut]

Night 2, why does it matter?

[Umlaut]

Actually, how can you have seen my one PR crumb and not know the answer to that question?

[humaneatingmonkey]

ooooooooooooo

[humaneatingmonkey]

"i saw your pr crumb too" but his heart sank that you were friendly neighbor

[humaneatingmonkey]

Umlaut, again, I'm here for questions and moral support and to pressure you into making the right decision.

[Umlaut]

Don't mind me I'm just going to spend a few days rereading and scrutinizing everything until I've worked myself up into a state of inescapable paranoia and anxiety.

[humaneatingmonkey]

It's better you than me deciding ELo because reconsidering my reads and then making the accurate decision is my biggest weakness. I'm more of a bully & lead type of guy.

[humaneatingmonkey]

You can do this man

[Roden]

Actually, how can you have seen my one PR crumb and not know the answer to that question?

I'm actually confident I know the answer but don't want to make assumptions.

Night 2, why does it matter?

Because of what HEM said here.

HEM, care to explain why the push for such a fast hammer yesterday?

I was confident it would flip scum, and if it wasn't I wanted to be set up to be placed in ELo with you (that's why I had a big sign that said 'I will elim Umlaut in ELo)

There's only one reason he wants to go to ELo with you, he knows you're much less likely to vote him over me. However, he didn't set this up on Day 3, but on

Day 2

. Immediately after you made your case against us, he tried to make a case that you were scum but didn't even bother voting for you. And when he saw me consider the possibility you were scum, he continued to push it. However, he's saying he knew all along that you were a FN and that he wanted us to be in ELo. But it doesn't make sense for town!HEM to set up a final three like this if he shouldn't have that information yet.

However, we know due to the set up that we're in Column B. The second scum has to be a Rolecop. I think HEM scum slipped this by admitting he knew you were FN when he shouldn't had known yet.

And if you want to make it even more obvious that he wanted the three of us in a final three scenario as early as Day 2:

I'm willing to lim T3 instead of Vax. But I'm not taking Vax to a possible ELo situation.

This was a little while after the VCA discussion and right after Vax got fake hammered. He made it clear he would never allow Vax to make it to final three even when general consensus seemed to be that T3 and Vax weren't partners. I even say a few posts later that I still think HEM is bussing T3.

This is why Vax got flash wagoned btw. He set up the Vax mis-elim in the same post he bussed T3. He didn't give anyone any time to try to put pressure on him, because he absolutely needed to just get to the final three scenario as quickly as he could. GIF was there over VFP because GIF is stubborn and would be more likely to flash wagon Vax due to not wanting to be wrong. However, GIF never in a million years makes final three when he town reads me all game and said he would vote Rock/HEM if he was wrong about his reads, so of course he's the next NK.

[Roden]

"i saw your pr crumb too" but his heart sank that you were friendly neighbor

Umlaut I saw your PR crumbs too. It was really obvious but it only added to my paranoia that HEM could actually be town and that you were going for a big brain play.

I honestly hoped you were scum, since even if it meant my read on HEM was wrong then at least it didn't seem to be a guaranteed loss for town. Because if you were town and HEM was scum, you already had said you would vote me over HEM.

My heart sank when I got your FN message.

Leaving out context is always a 100% scum move.

[Umlaut]

Roden, why'd you go along with the insta-lim on Vax anyway?

[Roden]

Roden, why'd you go along with the insta-lim on Vax anyway?

Two reasons. One, because GIF went along with it and I trusted GIF at that point. And two, I honestly just wanted it to be Vax because that would be easier than our current final three situation.

[Umlaut]

Wouldn't knowing I'm town be a reason to want to go to ELo with me, in the universe where he's town?

[Roden]

Wouldn't knowing I'm town be a reason to want to go to ELo with me, in the universe where he's town?

Yes, but he isn't town. And he seemed to know you were town and wanted to take you to ELo

before

you sent him the FN message.

Thing is, he can't actually take you to ELo if he's town anyway. He has to claim I'm scum now, and alleges he wanted to trap me by saying he would vote you, but if that's true why would I knowingly walk into a trap if I'm scum? I would have to be the Rolecop, and I 100% would've checked you if that were true after you heavily hinted at having a PR on Day 2.

If I'm scum, don't I just kill you on Night 2? Why do I keep you alive when you possibly have a PR and openly stated you would vote me out if given the chance? GIF even pointed it out of his own accord that I would've killed him Night 1 if I was scum, since I thought he'd bread crumbed being a PR near the end of Day 1.

Do you at all think it's likely that scum never once attempts to night kill people who bread crumb PRs? If I'm scum, what do I gain from keeping you alive and killing VFP and GIF when both town read me?

[Roden]

Like, I know WIFOM is a thing, but it just seems so obvious to me that HEM had to kill all the people town reading me to have a chance at winning ELo. I genuinely don't understand how the kills don't make it cut and dry here.

[Umlaut]

Spoiler: Thoughts from T3's ISO re. Roden and Rockhopper/HEM

Hoi ppl
What’s your favorite gelato flavor?

Probably chocolate

Chocolate's the best (:
Lez clear each other for the rest of the game?

Maybe...
*sits in rockhopper pocket*

Ballsy move if both scum.

Hello all, sure is nice when you roll PR huh? Who shall I check on tonight, I wonder

VOTE: sang froi
Works better as PR bait imo

yeah seriously wth
VOTE: sang froi

VOTE: jumble

Actually VOTE: rockhopper.

Do you seriously think a (supposedly) experienced player like sang would just claim pr as scum knowing full well it will get everyone's attention?

Switching vote from SF to Rockhopper

could

be a distancing move or could just be deciding it "makes more sense" to vote the first person than the second.

Roden, thoughts on Rockhopper?

This on the other hand reads a lot like "fake interaction" (why Roden in particular?)

Current reads, most are gut.
Me: me
Town: sang, Vax
Lean town: Roden, gif
Null: Clasko
Scum: Rockhopper
If I forgot people then I probably don't have a read on you yet. Jumble idk yet.

Roden bundled together with GIF in "lean town" which is a pretty vague category. A lot of other players were

hard

townreading Roden here so this is a somewhat surprising read. Rockhopper in dead last place, so if T3 was busing he was pretty serious about it (and probably expected Rock to be the one dying and himself to be the one carrying the game).

VOTE: Rockhopper after a reread.

Totally unexplained vote.

VOTE: rockhopper for now.

Another

unexplained vote.

UNVOTE: rock until the replacement is found.

This seems somewhat indicative of a bus and/or distancing but not very much so, scum could do this for no other reason than to look good.

I scumread rock a lot and light sr gif independent of rock.

Still no explanation.

VFP is probably town.
IDK about hem.

Softening read on the replacement, seems to be following the town consensus more or less (Rock was very scumread, HEM less so)

In your POV, HEM has been pushing town all day. Why have I been good?

Oh wait you weren't pushing roden lol

My mental model of scum has them

hyper-aware

of what their buddies are doing; unless this is entirely play-acting by T3 it points strongly against the idea that T3 and HEM are a team.

Hem is townie by ongoing games but scummy by play.

This post honestly makes no sense at all but I don't think I can infer much about HEM's alignment from it.

Locktown: Vax Gif
Leaving Umlaut, VFP, hem, Roden

VFP and Umlaut could be a team, but I hadit in my head you were pushing Roden. So that left no associatives.

Puts HEM and Roden in the same pool, impossible to distinguish them here.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Umlaut can I have questions too

[Umlaut]

I was just about to read through your ISO actually, I'm sure I'll have some

[fferyllt]

et

[fferyllt]

allez