FGO: Mafia in the Lostbelt - 2 Game Over

[Servant Beast]

How many miselimination do we have if one of these players flips scum?

[Servant Shielder]

How many miselimination do we have if one of these players flips scum?

Keep in mind that I am dying at the end of the day

[Servant Rider]

Also, my issue today is mostly that I feel like people are discounting Avenger for very silly or outright poor reasons.

[Servant Beast]

Is there anything in the wording of your ability that can allow you to survive or are you 100% dead?

[Servant Shielder]

Is there anything in the wording of your ability that can allow you to survive or are you 100% dead?

I'm pretty sure I'm dead.

I count as having been killed already, so even something weird like a day doctor would likely be too late.

[Servant Caster]

With 4 scum in a 14 player game, I'm not seeing why one informed town clear is unbelievable?

In terms of game design I don't like how it interacts with Master Election.

It'd be like putting Masons in a game with a Master Election - it's inelegant.

Also the timing of the claim doesn't make a lot of sense to me, if I remember correctly, Shielder wasn't really in any danger when Beast claimed this?

[Servant Shielder]

Actually, I don't think what I just said is correct

[Servant Beast]

If we could not rehash this for the third time, I'd appreciate it.

@Shielder. I see. Bummer!

pedit: ooo. Tell me more!

[Servant Rider]

Does Avenger + Foreigner even make sense here? How much bussing is too much bussing for a scumteam?

[Servant Archer]

Okay. Reasons I scum read foreigner (but I do not intend on doing an iso for links and such, just typing what I have been thinking)

Their day 0 play screamed scum to me. They seemed to be really tiptoeing around the decision, waiting to see which way the thread went before saying where they wanted to go. And when they did start sharing their thoughts, the way they appeared to be going about deciding who they wanted to get the master just did not seem very genuine.

I also feel like their moon caster vote could easily have been a bus vote (and think that the scum plan was for moon caster to be bussed), why I think this has already been talked about.

I also found it scummy the way that foreigner tried to get town cred for BOTH himself and for Saber following the Moon Caster flip. Like, as town, I get the motivation for trying to get your voice to be heard, but it seems really strange that he did not say "I caught Moon Cancer first" he instead said "me and Saber caught Moon Cancer first"

That last point is especially strange to me given the fact that prior to that point Foreigner had not been town reading Saber, and had at times made posts that looked like he was somewhat suspicious of them (which I now think were distancing posts)

Also, my issue today is mostly that I feel like people are discounting Avenger for very silly or outright poor reasons.

If it makes you feel any better, if foreigner does flip town, then obviously my idea for what the scum team was doing was wrong, and for me, Avenger will be back on the table.

I am not trying to say that I think Avenger should be off the table forever, just not the flip for today

[Servant Shielder]

Actually, I don't think what I just said is correct

My death is delayed, not the timing of when I'm attacked. I do believe this can't be stopped, but it would depend on what other abilities existed. I think it's unlikely that there would be something in the game to save me

[Servant Archer]

Does Avenger + Foreigner even make sense here? How much bussing is too much bussing for a scumteam?

I don't think anyone is arguing for that combination

[Servant Shielder]

If nothing else, the gladiate into cancel reset the vote count. Maybe they hoped moon cancer wouldn't be voted out so quick.

[Servant Beast]

Does Avenger + Foreigner even make sense here? How much bussing is too much bussing for a scumteam?

Infinite bus works.

/pedit: @Archer, I am unironically arguing this because I can't seem to find the last one outside of those two besides the larger elimination pool. Where all the scum are highly likely to be that I mentioned before.

I just need one of Assassin, Rider, Caster. To obvtown and this game is *probably* in the bag.

[Servant Rider]

If it makes you feel any better, if foreigner does flip town, then obviously my idea for what the scum team was doing was wrong, and for me, Avenger will be back on the table.

I am not trying to say that I think Avenger should be off the table forever, just not the flip for today

Sadly, it seems as though Foreigner will be the flip today, or at least over Avenger. I don't really see a point in distracting from the wagon any longer if so many others are convinced this is the way to go.

Hopefully I'm wrong and Foreigner is just scum. I'll eat my words and apologize profusely to you and Berserker if that's the case. If I'm right, I'm probably going to be fairly irritated, and I'm going to want more than just an 'oh I guess we should just flip Avenger now'.

[Servant Assassin]

Assassin, Rider, Caster. To obvtown

Caster was and is town,

Rider has been obvtowning for this entire day phase.

[Servant Beast]

It's been like a day Rider. Foreigner hasn't even posted yet. Stop AtEing, jeez.

[Servant Beast]

Assassin, Rider, Caster. To obvtown

Caster was and is town,

Rider has been obvtowning for this entire day phase.

Are you nominating yourself for the final scum if foreigner and/or Avenger aren't scum?

[Servant Caster]

VOTE: Foreigner

Archer has convinced me <3

[Servant Rider]

Hey! I can't be the only one not using logical fallacies.

[Servant Caster]

I am the Queen of Logical Fallacies

[Servant Assassin]

No thank you. I don't mind existing in the state of a perennial null read for the time being. Now if only someone could charge my NP up.

[Servant Archer]

Assassin, Rider, Caster. To obvtown

Caster was and is town,

Rider has been obvtowning for this entire day phase.

I will say that Caster has fallen in ranks among my reads, and is no longer above suspicious in my books.

They are not where I am wanting to look right now, but they are not in my lock town tier

The players that are never scum at this point, in my opinion are : Berserker, Archer, Lancer, Alter Ego, Shielder

[Servant Berserker]

that thing he said about Saber catching Moon Cancer does seem awful in retrospect.

Him and Saber catching Moon Caster*
FTFY

[Servant Alter Ego]

How about this? If no one claims a valid role-related reason to believe the Miller claim, we eliminate Avenger today. If someone does, we do what you want [which I presume is eliminating Foreigner].

What kind of reason could you possibly be fishing for?

We already have evidence that there are investigative roles in this game, simply from the fact that we have a confirmed townie who is immune to investigations.

Like, people have said "I am surprised how many clears this set up can make" --- but like, having both a player immune to investigations and a player who is a miller is the counter to that.

Well, the problem with such reasoning is that none of the revealed roles actually function as a straight cop, so miller doesn't make sense in conjunction with those, in terms of balance. But I don't think this is particularly good reasoning for suspecting Avenger, because it's not like it's impossible for a red herring role to exist. My thoughts were more oriented toward the number of potential clear-generating roles seeming particularly high given the size of the setup.

Catching up.

My issue with the Avenger-scum hypothesis is that for it to be true, it supposes Titus was doing nothing but bussing on day 1 (she jumped on Avenger in the duel and pushed fairly hard on him), and I'm not sure why that is somehow more plausible than all 3 wagons day 1 being on scum. To dismiss one of those as implausible but not the other seems like questionable logic.

What would be the issue with Titus bussing all her partners on Day 1? Her goal was to be elected and be removed from the game.

Do you think it's more likely that town will just listen to all her reads after they know she was scum all along, or question the validity of her reads?

Er, you realize I am talking about Day 1, yes? As in, after she had already lost the Masterization vote? I'm not talking about WIFOM reads given out pre-election but all the things after that. I don't particularly think she was planning on just going down right away after not getting elected. Under your supposition, we end up with dueling scum/scum wagons on day 1, avenger interrupts them with a duel, and then Titus just votes avenger in that duel, when his flip likely makes them look worse as a result? It's just hard for me to believe you're somehow seeing this all as exonerating for Foreigner but bad for Avenger, somehow.