Mini Theme 2222: Open Draft Mafia [Game Over]

[MURDERCAT]

Vote Count 1.8

[5] NorwegianboyEE: mastina, Flea The Magician, Taly, NDMath, T3
[2] Almost50: Dwlee99, Almost50
[2] mastina: NorwegianboyEE, Bingle
[1] T3: House
[1] Taly: cyrus62
[0] House:
[0] Flea The Magician:
[0] Infinity 324:
[0] Dwlee99:
[0] Bingle:
[0] cyrus62:
[0] Dunnstral:
[0] NDMath:

Not voting: Dunnstral, Infinity 324

With 13 alive it takes 7 to eliminate.

Deadline expires in

(expired on 2021-07-20 22:28:21).

[Dwlee99]

Dwlee

, darling, I very much appreciate your courage in doubling down on a scumread over a slot who is both generally townread on either a playstyle or mechanical reason.

Even more so by your willingness to whiteknight the one and only slot that has come to L2 in this game so far.

But if

Norwee

wobbles into this thread again only to ignore my previous posts specifically about him, I'm going to deathtunnel that slot.

Save the precious, divine scum!

Norwee

the heartache and L1 him.

I don't vote townreads sorry

A50 is low-key lurking out my push and I'm trying to not derail like other times. And I'm like the only one on him other than himself rn :I

Is he though? Like… what exactly do you think monkey should be doing that he isn’t?

Well trying to find scum would be good. His last catch-up was a nothing burger.

[T3]

Note to all: A Norwee scumflip doesn't affect Dwlee's alignment.

[T3]

There are players like Taly and Norwee who radiate town as either either alignment and as a result I'm biased against them.

[T3]

Or at least I'm paranoid.

[Bingle]

Why did you feel the need to point out this?
Also, does this count as a "townslip"?

Because the mechanic working the two different ways has a real impact on how scum will play and how town will play.

If pass -> kill then scum can get rid of their own packs to obfuscate what they had, town has to worry that they can be killed to prevent accountability for what is in their packs, and scum can get rid of an annoying town voice while simultaneously taking their pack for themselves.

Since it is kill -> pass, the scum can't kill a person without also getting rid of their pack, meaning that someone who is v towny might not necessarily be the nightkill if they've outed their pack as garbage. Like say, you. Additionally, town can be as tightlipped as we want about what was in our packs on D1 because if our pack is around on D2 we also have to be by default.

Why I would out this as opposed to hoping scum would miss it altogether is simple: It also informs town's NA. Any scumteam that is looking deep into pack mechanics to inform the passing of packs is going to figure it out for themselves. Someone with a protective role might not realize that you're a shitty doc target because if town scum isn't going to want to prioritize the elimination of your pack and if scum you're not going to get nightkilled. The information shared has a benefit to town more so than scum, so I share it.

As far as infinity being town based on not knowing that's how it works: a little town equity but not enough for a solid read. I doubt the scumteam has already started discussing which packs they want to shop for, so they probably haven't dug too deeply into NA mechanics. This is less true if specifically Dwlee or maybe mastina is scum (mastina is absent enough that I don't know how much strategizing she'd do) but that really only gives me Dwlee/Infi isn't a likely scumpair. Otherwise, I could see infinity not knowing how the night actions resolve as scum too.

[Bingle]

Well trying to find scum would be good. His last catch-up was a nothing burger.

I agree with you that A50 not looking into motivations is scum indicative. I disagree that A50 hasn't been looking into motivations. Him pushing me over the infinity thing I just responded to, 491, and 653 all felt like town A50 trying to solve things. He hasn't put enough effort in that I'm as solid on his alignment as I usually am, but you accurately giving a description of his scumplay and then continuing the push despite me not seeing that specific behavior is something that makes me think I need to take a closer look.

As far as nothingburger posts from A50, those come from either alignment. When reading him, you pretend they don't exist at all. There's nothing about his fluff to content ratio that's ever been readable in my experience, and I have a pretty good record when it comes to parsing the monkey.

I do think his claim is town indicative from him, as that is exactly the style of setup misunderstanding monkeytown would reach and I don't think he's likely to have been bullshitting that. OTOH, I can see 497 coming from him to get me to defuse the lim if indeed he was bluffing the mistake.

This is why I tend to hold my A50 cards close to my chest until I'm sure. I'm not even sure this is worth posting since it probably just muddies the water, but A50 is not a strong enough townread that I would try to veto the lim.

[T3]

Bingle? Do you want to vote a Norwee?

[Dwlee99]

I'm sure a50 fluffs as both alignments. The amount here is high though and he seems to be clinging to his initial mech play to not vote anyone even though people have told him if he is town it's a bad plan.

[cyrus62]

T3 what was your last scum game.

[T3]

T3 what was your last scum game.

Mini Normal: FIA WRC. That might be a bad game to look at because I was traitor and as a result have less associative tells so Newbie 2068.

[T3]

I think that with A50 you have to read for intent.

[Dwlee99]

That's how you have to read everyone my dude

[Bingle]

Bingle? Do you want to vote a Norwee?

Not really, no. I don't really see what makes Norwee scum here and the push doesn't feel natural.

[Bingle]

The amount here is high though

That's what I'm saying:

This is completely irrelevant to his alignment. A50 will fluff as much as A50 wants to fluff, regardless of PM. Trying to use fluff:content ratio with him is about as useful as trying to read me based on whether my mechtalk is on point.

[T3]

That's how you have to read everyone my dude

Yeah but like... cyrus intent.

[Bingle]

That's how you have to read everyone my dude

Not true, btw. The hallmark of a truly good scum player is that their intent is very similar to their townplay.

For example, LLD wants to lead the town as scum and she also wants to lead the town as town. For those players, you have to rely on gamestate and results, not intent.

[T3]

Metaing me vs my town or scum meta will probably be bad just because this game I'm posting a lot. Much more than I usually do as either alignment.

[Dwlee99]

Ugh I feel like I'm expressing myself poorly or something. It isn't about the direct ratio, it's specifically that I feel like he is using the mech thing as a way to avoid doing more. He might have thrown a reads list together but he still seems steadily focused on just continuing to self-vote and coast.

And on the intent thing, we just caught LLD because it was clear her intent was to push miselims through, not kill baddies. "Lead town" isn't an alignment indicative intent.

[cyrus62]

That's how you have to read everyone my dude

Yeah but like... cyrus intent.

My intent is to have fun I joined this game cause we get to pick roles.

[T3]

ANYWAYS
If Norwee isn't scum then I really don't know who is.

[Flea The Magician]

I'm prtty sold on Norwee scum here, honestly.

[NDMath]

Spoiler:

When I say everything is different, I do mean literally everything. I mean night and day difference when I say it.

And think about it--how would

you

go about describing to someone who genuinely doesn't know what 'night' and 'day' are, how to describe the polar opposites? They're so natural to you, so obvious, so innate, so inherently apparent to you that you would struggle to find the words. You can see it yourself, what day is, and what night is, so how can you describe something that is second-nature to you to someone who doesn't have any idea of what night and day are?

The same way actually describing the concepts of 'night' and 'day' to someone who doesn't know what they are is something difficult to you when they are so innate, so inherent, to you, describing your towngame and scumgame's difference is something that I find difficult because it is so transparently obvious, so immediately stupidly obvious by knowing your towngame that this isn't it, that I don't know where to begin.

It's not

impossible

to describe the difference! Just like describing how night and day are opposites isn't impossible, describing how this isn't your towngame isn't impossible. But I don't know where to begin.

This seems absurd to me; the more and bigger the differences the easier they are to point at.
Also, you still haven't explained your flea townread.

I don't have a read on flea.

I was planning to use your response to decide if I should move my vote there..

A50 could be scum, I feel like it's mostly a matter of the people who know a50 best and mastina/bingle think he's town so.

I feel similar about norwee tbh. I feel like at this point in the day I'm ok just limming anyone outside of my townreads because I don't think I'm gonna get a good scumread.

Do you townread norwee?

Townreads: mastina, dunn, cyrus, NDMath, taly, T3 somewhat

I don't object to using that list currently, though still would add house.

[NDMath]

Also mech things:

I want at L-1/intent to hammer/whatever the person to claim any unique cards (and mason) in their hand. I don't think there's benefit to hearing the non-unique ones.

I'm still pro having Dunn not take the mason card, but definitely less so than I was at the start of the day.

[House]

That's how you have to read everyone my dude

Not true, btw. The hallmark of a truly good scum player is that their intent is very similar to their townplay.

For example, LLD wants to lead the town as scum and she also wants to lead the town as town. For those players, you have to rely on gamestate and results, not intent.

Wanting to lead town isn't intent, it's play style.