Micro 1019: Dead Silence GAME OVER!

[thana]

VOTE: Nathann

Nathann

athan

thana

[thana]

Dead Silence

.........

[thana]

meow meow meow says the cat.
no no no says the guy and e1.
vroom vroom vroom says the car.
die die dir says the t3.

not

Mafia

[thana]

Thana do you have a post restriction?

no

[thana]

i was hoping to when i signed up though, felt there was a non-zero percent chance it would be similar to the first two phases of menagerie based on 'dead silence'

[thana]

Are you voting for someone that you think is Town?

are you?

[thana]

'menagerie'?

silent star ii

[thana]

Are you voting for someone that you think is Town?

are you?

I am not. Why do you ask?

wondered if you had thoughts on me

oh, that's who you are

hm

[thana]

wondered if you had thoughts on me

saying you don't think T3 is Mafia,

hmmmm i intended to communicate that t3 was describing their intention to play like not_mafia

wondered if you had thoughts on me

Do you think I should have?

not particularly

[thana]

I'll throw the same question to you, do you have anything on the person you're voting?

i mean, nothing alignment indicative

[thana]

I'll throw the same question to you, do you have anything on the person you're voting?

i mean, nothing alignment indicative

like it was a weird question to t3, but eh

[thana]

but seriously, let's get an e-1 vote on bugs

it is hard to imagine you think this would be +town

[thana]

I think it'd be very funny if Pooky actually gave T3 a triple word post restriction, and I think t3 is town.

do you feel forced to you?

[thana]

Are you asking if I think that the post restriction feels forced?

nono i am asking if you feel like you are forcing your posts, though i am now also curious about the answer to your post restriction question

[thana]

For the post restriction: I think it is likely fake but if it's real I'll be happy

it seems like a very unlikely post restriction to me and it also does not seem very funny to me but i often do not have a good sense of these things

[thana]

Dude's name is T3, it's actually extremely funny

well yes i understand the like...

t3 post restriction a word has to be x3 aspect

but does it seem likely or even reasonable that t3 randed this?

[thana]

but seriously, let's get an e-1 vote on bugs

it is hard to imagine you think this would be +town

y

? you are familiar with bugspray and know that they are fairly likely to be pressured at some point anyway and it is hard to imagine you thinking, ah yes, let's just push bugspray to hammer range to... find the mafia?

like, do you currently think bugspray is more likely to be mafia than everyone else? or do you think this wagon will somehow discover bugspray's alignment?

[thana]

I mean yea, but it's just such a weird and annoying restriction to give that I doubt it's real

also there were prior references to post restrictions et cetera et cetera

[thana]

what, to your mind, is objectionable about having someone in hammer range? it's not particularly important that it's bugs but there's also no reason why it shouldn't be bugs, although this is I guess already yielding some kind of benefit

I don't particularly think bugs is more likely to be scum than anyone else or that the wagon will be *that* helpful in sorting them, but that's still not a reason to not get the wagon up

the last game i played in, of which you were a moderator, involved multiple wagons of this sort which were definitely not beneficial to the town, wagons aren't good just because, but once again, eh

[thana]

where? I just checked the sign ups and all the setup information provided was "yes" when asked about bastardry

i meant that there were prior references to post restrictions within this game before t3 fully dove into the i have a post restriction bit, making it less believable

[thana]

these two things (t3's bullshit and me asking you if you have a post restriction on page1) are completely unrelated. my guess is that the two of you share a PT

you don't think it is possible that t3 saw you ask about the post restriction and thought, ah yes i will do that? we do not share a pt

[thana]

lack of vfp vote is concerning

had i not rvsed my vote would be lacking as well

could you answer this:

Is there a reason you specifically asked Menalque about a Neighbourhood?

please

[thana]

I have a light scumread but I’m not outing it yet, I want to see how they proceed

...

[thana]

[thana]

I think I wanna talk with Thana

what would you like to talk about?

[thana]

I am decidedly not a fan of burger defending one forming wagon, supporting the other growing wagon and doing literally nothing else.

Why do you find that to be scum-indicative? BurgerParty's votes and his reasoning for them felt fine to me.

@bugspray, could you please respond to 189? And what is supposed to be worrying about a 5-person PoE?

no

mm

it kinda feels like you have information that i do not

like i don't really disagree with momrangal about nathann's questions (question to t3 was weird, didn't necessarily seem like he cared about the answers until after her post)

but ...

[thana]

I would trust my reads way more if I didn't have 3 players as lockscum.

i, uh, don't think the meta stuff is enough to lockscum anyone

[thana]

like i don't really disagree with momrangal about nathann's questions (question to t3 was weird, didn't necessarily seem like he cared about the answers until after her post)

but ...

What about it was weird? And I don't understand where you're getting the idea that I didn't care about the answers. I specifically poked him multiple times to try to get him to contribute normally.

But...?

felt like the possible answers were either ‘yes’ or ‘rvs’

maybe not as much that you didn’t care before as much as like, hm, made a show out of caring after? like reiterated my reiteration to bugspray of a question you asked?

[thana]

But...?

but the neighbour thing was an odd assumption/far from how i was thinking about the setup

[thana]

I would trust my reads way more if I didn't have 3 players as lockscum.

i, uh, don't think the meta stuff is enough to lockscum anyone

I won't lie, I dabbled in the meta.

i meant the meta as it was presented here, not meta in general, which i am at times quite fond of

[thana]

Do you think bugspray is scum for it?

+scum for the information thing +town for their first few posts

[thana]

oh? how are you thinking about the setup

high-swing, experimental, dead silence

none of which led me to thinking neighbours would be highly likely,

what a LHF post

? trying to find a way to communicate with me was pretty towny to me, but i am struggling to understand the neighbour thing and you are refusing to offer assistance,


how likely do you think it is that t3 would be aware of this post from normal blitz iii:

how do y'all feel about RQS?

bugsprayyyyyyyy

town town town?

?

[thana]

how likely do you think it is that t3 would be aware of this post from normal blitz iii:

how do y'all feel about RQS?

bugsprayyyyyyyy

town town town?

?

VOTE: bugspray
Townnnnnnn

and the x3 "post restriction"

is why i ask

[thana]

Thana this conversation about whether t3 knew these posts existed does not feel like you trying to solve the game.

well i am inutile, which bugspray knows, and t3 was possibly referencing this post, and bugspray asked if t3 and i shared a pt, which we do not, so...

[thana]

how the fuck does a post that i don't even remember have shit do to with anything

hm

[thana]

Even if you did share a PT I don't think you would have shared that specific post with t3.

right, so i am asking if bugspray thinks t3 would be aware of this post somehow, or if they think it is a coincidence,

as, if say, bugspray and t3 shared a pt, t3 could be aware of this, or if one of the other players here was also in that game,

[thana]

So you think that t3 could have been told by someone that there was a post you made a year ago that they could emulate on Bugspray for what reason?

well it seems most likely to me that if t3 were told of its existence it would have been by bugspray, i am unsure of what the reason would be, but it seemed like a very big coincidence to me,

[thana]

VOTE: Thana
Oops VFP my finger slipped

do you think it is just a coincidence then? also @vfp

[thana]

what if the dead silence relates to silencing of pts?
maybe there is some encryptor

i thought about this but there would have to be a massive amount of named players to also have a game with high enough swing where it was necessary to mention

also, hi! +)

though it seems likely to me you would have known this before, maybe not, hm

[thana]

massive amount of named players

what do you mean named players

encryptor + neighbours/masons + at least two roles that create the swing? (i am assuming because i don't think a single vigilante qualifies a game as high-swing)

[thana]

i don't think a single vigilante qualifies a game as high-swing

or maybe it does but not to the extent that a disclaimer would be necessary, at least

[thana]

weird to call those roles "named"

i guess, i don't really think of neighbours as prs,

are traitors allowed in micros?

bastard so yeah everything is, i think not in micro normals though

[thana]

UNVOTE:

[thana]

Has any one of you thought about having a conversation with me?

what was boring about page 10?

[thana]

It was basically nothing but setup speculation, based on practically no information. I cannot get anything alignment indicative out of it, and it doesn't help us solve the setup because, again, page ten, no actual information.

hm

how do you generally try to determine if someone is informed

[thana]

how do you generally try to determine if someone is informed

like if you think an encryptor is unlikely, what does us talking about one mean to you

[thana]

All it means to me is that you're taking up thread space with pointless discussion. If I had to come up with something, I could say that you're more likely to be scum because you're focusing on non-AI discussions, but then this game would have 7-8 scum. I don't give Town points for talking about an Encryptor when I think one is unlikely because it's not rocket science to be able to fake that as scum.

?? why would it mean town points if you find the encryptor to be unlikely? like i do not think this is in the game -> why didn't they reach a similar conclusion =/ town

but sure, pointless discussion if you'd like, they all are really

[thana]

Someone speculating about an Encryptor is more likely to be a Townie genuinely speculating about Scum power (that they don't know anything about), rather than Scum who's fake speculating about Scum power (that they know Scum doesn't have).

I thought that's the train of thought what you were aiming for when you asked me what does speculation about the Encryptor mean to me if I think one is unlikely. However, I'm saying I don't really believe that, because I think Scum fake speculating about something like that is not difficult to fake.

the encryptor wouldn't have to be scum power and also could be like 'enables talk in general' as opposed to 'daytalk' to solve your all pts have daytalk objection, though the other issues still stand

wasn't aiming for a train a thought, wanted to see how you think about these things

It's pointless to me. Did you get anything about bugspray's alignment out of the discussion on page ten?

Though, now that I'm at my laptop and not working from memory, I'll admit to being wrong about page ten only being "setup speculation", as there was also discussion about that post from an old game. Doesn't change the fact it didn't help me sort either of you, but still putting it out there.

bugspray's discovery of me being me felt untimely, bugspray's reaction to the post made me doubt that theory more than either vfp/dwlee did, though vfp/dwlee mirrored reactions probably noteworthy, i do not know how to weigh those things,

[thana]

bugspray's discovery of me being me felt untimely, bugspray's reaction to the post made me doubt that theory more than either vfp/dwlee did, though vfp/dwlee mirrored reactions probably noteworthy, i do not know how to weigh those things,

and maybe i have more of an understanding as to where the neighbour conclusion came from?

[thana]

VOTE: Nathan
Guess I'm back to this and I'll let t3 resolve somehow else.

worried about t3 being mafia + voting for someone t3 put to e-1 without saying anything is an interesting combination

[thana]

Bold assumption that I remembered that happening

...

it happened two pages ago and you responded to it

[thana]

Oh when he said too towny to be town okay yea I don't think my brain registered that as "Nathan was put to E-1 remember that." When you said "it happened two pages ago" I had to go back and reread to remember what happened.

hmm, why did you assume i unvoted and/or bugspray voted for t3?

[thana]

hmm, why did you assume i unvoted and/or bugspray voted for t3?

like what did you think the reason for us doing so was if unaware of the e-1, is what i'm trying to ask

[thana]

I don't understand your point here.

felt weird for dwlee to return to voting nathann based on what i assume is still sheeping momrangal when they are suspecting t3 of being mafia, like i don't understand how they would be weighing that in that situation,

No like, I think I realized in the moment but I didn't record it in memory like that. Cause I remember seeing your unvote and thinking you didn't want someone in hammer range. I recorded the interaction as being t3 saying too townie to be town which I thought was more weird than E-1ing someone.

but i guess maybe its possible they just weren't, regardless of alignment, hm

[thana]

I'd be more worried if Dwlee wouldn't vote there for that alone.

i guess i don't follow

[thana]

Well there's a difference in suspecting someone and being confident.
If Dwlee labels Nathann as town due to being sus on T3, then it wouldn't be a genuine read and just an excuse to give a read on someone.

it felt to me like dwlee was being more confident on suspecting nathann than t3 and ignoring things t3 has done even though it seemed to me from their posts like they would be more confident on t3

[thana]

it felt to me like dwlee was being more confident on suspecting nathann than t3 and ignoring things t3 has done even though it seemed to me from their posts like they would be more confident on t3

but also could be things not posted,

[thana]

it felt to me like dwlee was being more confident on suspecting nathann than t3 and ignoring things t3 has done even though it seemed to me from their posts like they would be more confident on t3

but also could be things not posted,

what kind of things not posted public?

who is in the pt
who said what to who

i meant if dwlee's reads on nathann/t3 were informed by things they did not commit to the thread,

like mine are so it'd unfair of me to be like 'dwlee is only sheeping momrangal' with regards to nathann,

[thana]

i meant if dwlee's reads on nathann/t3 were informed by things they did not commit to the thread,

like mine are so it'd unfair of me to be like 'dwlee is only sheeping momrangal' with regards to nathann,

it was also an invitation for dwlee to share those things, which i think they kinda did to some extent

[thana]

I don't like the Nathan wagon, VFP/dwlee are not really doing The Good Posting and the "VFP sell me on T3 town" seems like a very easy way to have interactions that are very low-stakes and allow the two to interact while also going for a hard pocket

how likely is dwlee and vfp scumteam?

[thana]

Menalque your theory rn is that I told my buddy to convince me of a read in thread just for me to essentially go "meh" on the entire thing.

i mean, you and vfp did something similar earlier as well, which i referred to here:

though vfp/dwlee mirrored reactions probably noteworthy, i do not know how to weigh those things,

so do you think that menalque independently reached a similar conclusion based on similar evidence? or do you think that menalque saw bugspray and i musing about the possibility and decided to push this narrative?

[thana]

@thana, could you share the things you're thinking of in 356?

sure i guess

with regards to you: alt stuff, language stuff, trying to apply how you said you were sorting (

I try to determine informedness the way I've been trying to the whole game - reading into people's posts, their votes, motivations and mindsets behind those, trajectories, etc

) to the situations that were bothering me

like you see t3 vote bugspray and say townnn, look at bugspray's preceding posts, do they seem towny? yup, ask about vote? maybe i guess,

with regards to t3: mostly past experience

[thana]

I was also interested in how those things were applying to your reads, not only just what they are. You're not voting, so I can't tell what you're thinking.

And strongly disagree that bugspray's preceding posts at that time were Townie, I thought it was clear I didn't think they were.

on you, hard to say with the alt and language stuff because i am unsure, giving more leeway to the language stuff because an alt, also, maybe slightly more towny than i thought before on the other stuff, if you want my thoughts on anything specific you can just ask, i am aware of the deadline

hmmmmmm, the mafia generally don't try to help me communicate

like i can think of exactly one example ever of mafia doing so and they were aware that it was a thing towns do

[thana]

I still don't understand what people are talking about when they're suspecting me for tone/language, this is just how I speak. And I'd think my posts so far make it clear that I am trying to open up communication, though obviously not just with you.

i have no idea on 'tone', but in terms of language it feels like, monitored. i think this is different from what i mean, i don't mean like, interacting with me in general, or like, "getting me involved in the game" or whatever humaneatingmonkey claimed to be doing in the last normal, but rather helping me with the task of communicating what i am trying to communicate

momrangal's posts feel fine to me, absence is ?, like i am considering it, but, probably won't

[thana]

VFP and I are in a neighborhood btw

any reason you didn't have the conversation about t3's meta in the neighbourhood? any thoughts on bugspray's musings about neighbourhoods?

[thana]

I cc. I'm in a hood with another player.

is the other player bugspray?

[thana]

can we please just claim the neighbourhoods

[thana]

I think everyone is in a hood.

i am not,

can we please just claim the neighbourhoods

please

[thana]

can we please just claim the neighbourhoods

please

...pretty please?

[thana]

noooooooo

the fact that there's so many hoods probably means there's a PR that can interact with them.

and why would this mean claiming them is bad?

[thana]

Thana literally ask for everyone to claim all of their hoods

i'm still waiting

[thana]

I'm waiting to hear back from the other neighbor if said person wants me to say who it is.

is momrangal in two neighbourhoods then? or is bugspray not responding to this?

[thana]

Seems like I was right about this so let's make something happen, yeah?+

eh menalque's read on me felt like hedging and there's a thing i noticed previously where as soon as anyone townreads me mafia are likely to

but like town!menalque buried town!me in a marathon not that long ago even though neither menalque or anyone else in the game really scumread me so it seems unlikely that this wouldn't have been a prominent thought for mafia!menalque here after you seemingly voted me just to gauge interest

[thana]

VOTE: dwlee

[thana]

I mean it's kind of hard to have a solid read on you without you voting anyone and when you haven't like, directly addressed me in several days

i disagree with the value of information as you know, like past failures are due to inability to process that information correctly not mafia having it (and it seems super likely to me that mafia has some of it anyway) or whatever but there are still past failures so arguing about it instead of just asking people to see it my way seems ...

[thana]

I mean it's kind of hard to have a solid read on you without you voting anyone and when you haven't like, directly addressed me in several days

i disagree with the value of information as you know, like past failures are due to inability to process that information correctly not mafia having it (and it seems super likely to me that mafia has some of it anyway) or whatever but there are still past failures so arguing about it instead of just asking people to see it my way seems ...

Something seems off about this. I feel like shiki doesn't usually talk like this. Scum?

i meant about not with, but ?

like it just felt like menalque was saying 'you weren't baited into arguing with me about claiming neighbourhoods'

also voting with me + accusing me of being scum + not knowing it was me but knowing what i usually talk like

[thana]

UNVOTE:

[thana]

mmmaybe it checks out with the hurt thing, though convenient here

is bugspray also in the neighbourhood

[thana]

Since you keep asking yes but they won't respond to me asking if I should tell you they're in there.

i figured so but i wanted confirmation

[thana]

why do you townread vfp?

[thana]

I think setup-wise it would make sense (since multiple hoods) that ours could be all-town based on the fact I knew one was for sure so I didn't want to scumread solely based on the hood.

i first met bugspray in a three person neighbourhood with no mafia in a micro

VOTE: dwlee

how good do you currently feel about this?

(just assume i am town for the purposes of this because i am town)

[thana]

the value of which information you disagree about the value of? of voting for people?

of neighbourhood claims,

a claim that's like... very safe for scum you to make is it's unverifiable without bugs dying

uh,

town!dwlee -> town!bugspray
scum!dwlee -> town!bugspray or partner!bugspray
partner!bugspray makes the dwlee e-1 ???????????

so town!bugspray seems... right? and bugspray dying wouldn't verify dwlee's claim either way?

I think you're far more desperate to stay alive

did i
say sunflower? say,
instead, don't ever
mess with me. say
there is nothing
i won't do to live.

[thana]

they don't like my wagon because it seemed like scum was happy with it

it kinda seemed like dwlee was frustrated that they were being pushed in a game where half the playerlist is absent or refusing to play

but they cannot be scum without Dwlee

yeah this

[thana]

would rather go back to dwlee i think but will hammer nathann if necessary

[thana]

We don't have enough firepower here to turn this to Momrangal, right?

would rather not; i really appreciate the effort from dwlee regardless but also this is their only play here as mafia

VOTE: dwlee

i will look into the rest of the game minus bugspray if you are town, yeah

Shiki just don't trust an ELO guilty and you'll do golden.

i knew the mafia would fakeclaim too +///

[thana]

thankyou for moderating. quite enjoyed the setup and flavour.

ah, had 2 of 3 (with burgerparty over bugspray), and the setup more or less

well played town, especially t3

there are probably many other things to say, but would rather just think about the music and how much i liked this avatar

[thana]

I was town trying to get scum to out?

to me it strongly felt like you were doing this but hedging it so you could claim mafia if you had to

[thana]

'shiki' doesn't feel anymore me than 'thana' does

also,

Subject: Dead Silence Mafia PT

march 03 2021