Open 821 | Fall With Your Friends | Endgame

[humaneatingmonkey]

Cool Hectic already scumclaimed

[humaneatingmonkey]

Our job here is done

[humaneatingmonkey]

Where's the strawberry-haired avatar Prism? It had a big part in making me clumsy in Forest Fire Redux. It felt like you can peer into my soul and see me for the scum that I am.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Anyway, the good news about this playerlist is a lot of you have played with me when I was scum. It would be pretty easy for you to spot that I'm town this time. This means if you say you don't want to trust me, I don't want to trust you either.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Ydrasse, what do you think about Hectic's insta-trust on page 1?

[humaneatingmonkey]

My strategy is be myself and find someone who like me for me.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Based on my extensive experience with you, I'm pretty confident in my read that you aren't the mod this time.

How did you know???

[humaneatingmonkey]

it’s nai because he trusted me

actually probably town because i don’t think he trusts me like that as scum because he knows i’d be sad

so it's you and hectic as partners, right?

if i trust you right now, and you leave with me, it would confirm Hectic as scum and we can win this game.

I trust Ydrasse

[humaneatingmonkey]

Yehey Ydrasse is conftown!

[humaneatingmonkey]

monkey very very sus

susmanuts

[humaneatingmonkey]

It is incredibly tempting to say "If I can't beat them, join them" and propose to Ydrasse but I will restrain myself.

there can't be 3 scum in this game. Ydrasse is town. You don't have to restrain yourself. Unless you're faking this.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i feel loved

you know it

[humaneatingmonkey]

bet you're not even a monkey

how dare you scum

[humaneatingmonkey]

is Ydrasse a famous horse girl?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Let's leave this place and go on a nice cruise

May the best man win

[humaneatingmonkey]

Says this guy.



It's obvious I'm better looking.

[humaneatingmonkey]

probe myself?

[humaneatingmonkey]

if you dont trust me, don't trust me. just don't trust hectic because there's no town incentive to randomly trust players in page 1.

[humaneatingmonkey]

heartbreaking

[humaneatingmonkey]

Im happy for you Hectic and Ydrasse. No hard feelings.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Why inutile, murdercat?

[humaneatingmonkey]

You had her as never trusting. Thats not nai.

[humaneatingmonkey]

my prediction is murdercat is scum and i'd gladly stay with him.

[humaneatingmonkey]

we'll grow old together, baby

[humaneatingmonkey]

S_S being universally townread is not obvious to me

[humaneatingmonkey]

nothing yet

[humaneatingmonkey]

maybe you're town for not trusting ydrasse when it was inconsequential to do that and you'd have scum motivation to offer yourself there, but maybe you're smarter than that idk

[humaneatingmonkey]

My prediction is that prism will trust SS and I will trust infinity and that will be GG
The scum team of Dann and HEM will lose

how murdercat has reads this early points towards scum.

also putting inutile as never voting when he hasn't had the opportunity to interact or read through the slot.

[humaneatingmonkey]

if murdercat is scum, then dannflor isn't scum with him unless they agreed to bus each other right from the get go.

concluding that scum team is hem and dannflor is also not obvious to me. my play has been in your face, so i would understand if he would interpret it as scummy. but dannflor hasn't done anything i would say is ai vs the other people who have posted. so his reads are very very questionable

[humaneatingmonkey]

How about meeee

dont have anything on you yet

[humaneatingmonkey]

tell me the following:
1. who are the top 4 people who you won't be trusting?
2. who are the scum team?
3. who do you predict would be trusting who?

absurd, right? you might have reads, but to have reads in this level of detail would usually need a lot of content in-thread. but i don't think the content doesn't really exist in this game yet. so murdercat is pulling all these out of thin air points towards fake reads = scum.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i'll do you one better; explain your meta

[humaneatingmonkey]

okay then answer it please would you

[humaneatingmonkey]

infinity, if you have murdercat as a locktown, why haven't you went for a pair now?

[humaneatingmonkey]

i'll do you one better; explain your meta

viewtopic.php?p=12861663#p12861663
viewtopic.php?p=12612853#p12612853

I often try to hero solve for style points

where'd you get your reads from the games you linked and where'd you get your reads from this game

[humaneatingmonkey]

1. Catboi, dann, inutile, prism
2. Catboi/Dann
3. Me/murder, monkey/prism

let's move on to the next step and discuss how you came up with these reads, except for the pairing which obviously is from recent events

[humaneatingmonkey]

Prism, lets get to know more about each other first before we pair of into the sunset

[humaneatingmonkey]

Prism whats ur favorite flavor of ice cream and also what shpuld i be looking out for if youre scum and why are you different

[humaneatingmonkey]

maybe your replies should be in sequence because i answered this

[humaneatingmonkey]

So whats up catboi how do we know prism is town

[humaneatingmonkey]

I want to pair Dannflor with Something_Smart

[humaneatingmonkey]

Murdercat, anything about Infinitys game so far that you are sus of?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Prism do you read catboi town?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Why do you trust him to lead me towards you being town, and to lead you towards me being town

[humaneatingmonkey]

So why dont you both leave the game together then

[humaneatingmonkey]

Infinity said the only thing stopping her was you, but it doesnt seem like you object to it

[humaneatingmonkey]

Murdercat id be very happy if you leave with Infinity right now, if both of you really have the ability to do so

[humaneatingmonkey]

I dont think either would do it even though they said they would

[humaneatingmonkey]

If you really TR Infinity, you would.

I mean the PL arent inexperienced. You dont trust them?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Why do you think youre uniquely qualified to stay than the peolle here?

[humaneatingmonkey]

That makes sense. I would want to leave with either Infinity or Murdercat.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Hi inutile

I have no conclusions. Im just trying to explore ideas.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I dont think either would do it even though they said they would

Because they're buddies, or because one or both of them are town and scared?

Good answer S_S

[humaneatingmonkey]

I understand Prism. Im taking it slow. Please dont be hurt.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I have no conclusions inutile. Just exploring stuff.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I understand Prism. Im taking it slow. Please dont be hurt.

I'm annoyed because one of the names is a slight townlean and the other an active scumread.

If you want to go with someone else go with S_S

Put your faith in me

[humaneatingmonkey]

Infinity, would you leave with me?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Infinity, would you leave with me?

Yes probably.

Trust me then

[humaneatingmonkey]

Just do it with me now i thought im town

[humaneatingmonkey]

Okay no trusts for me then. And you'd only want to leave with murdercat and not in a generic townread sense. You -strongly believe- that Murdercat is town. Can you remind me why, and why that level of read is not available to the rest of us?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Huh thats your solid murdercat read? That hes updating his solve inthread?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Wow and thats enough for you to locktown him

[humaneatingmonkey]

I wish I can trust in myself the way Infinity trusts in herself to trust Murdercat with that little read

[humaneatingmonkey]

Catboi? Whats wrong with Catboi?

[humaneatingmonkey]

One of those posts being in direct response to a question from you, by the way.

Sorry Prism, I'll pay more attention next time.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I think Infinity is scum.

[humaneatingmonkey]

yah

[humaneatingmonkey]

whats up friends

[humaneatingmonkey]

catboi if you really trust prism that much, you should pop the question

[humaneatingmonkey]

the people here are too conservative with their trusts. i would like everyone to start popping those trusts when they come to the conclusion is someone is "locktown" and that "you'll never change your mind" — even changing your entire strategies just to set both of you up to trust as a surething.

pop those trusts so we can start getting actual reads

[humaneatingmonkey]

i think infinity and catboi having these reads and strategies and then not doubling down with an action that would confirm people for us leads to scum

[humaneatingmonkey]

hectic had no reason to jump the gun on Ydrasse, other than the lolz, and i found that scummy

[humaneatingmonkey]

these people seem very convinced with their cited reasons—even adjusting their strategies—around their townreads. why aren't they popping the question?

[humaneatingmonkey]

we can start with somewhere. we dont all have to do it.

[humaneatingmonkey]

the scummier players should actually be the first ones to do it. they should be the one to pop the question on their supposed townreads, so we can start conftowning people.

[humaneatingmonkey]

at least we can minimize the risk of trust in scum because we'll be trusting the towniest

[humaneatingmonkey]

i love your avatar btw infinity. it's so easy to the eyes.

[humaneatingmonkey]

are you steering clear of me for some reason

sorry if you feel like that, but i'm not steering clear of you. what do you want to talk about?

[humaneatingmonkey]

i mean without interacting with me, like it felt like maybe you were trying not to engage with me for whatever reason

i get what you mean and i'm sorry. i haven't been focused on my games lately. if you've already suggested it before, then you must have implanted that strategy in my head or great minds think alike.

so what do you want to talk about? where are you on this game?

[humaneatingmonkey]

in what voice do you read other people's posts? your own voice, or do you assign an imagined voice (like a pirate's voice, for example)?

p-edit those are good reads Prism. I have those reads as well.

[humaneatingmonkey]

holy shit Prism is town

[humaneatingmonkey]

well, Prism always hypes her scum game, so it's silly for me to trust my gut here.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Are you sure? What about the fact that Prism always hypes her scum game? Do you think as scum, she wouldn't take the easy way out here before she successfully escorts her buddy out?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I guess really catboi should do it first, though I can't imagine scum-Prism ever takes that.

Yes. catboi should do it to Prism. That's the plan. We don't start with townreads trusting other townreads. we should start with scumread trusting townread.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Am I sure about what? Prism being town?

yah

[humaneatingmonkey]

what point would there be to stay in the game? it's still too early to make associatives and this PL is not a push-over anyhow.

[humaneatingmonkey]

catboitrustsprism@gmail.com

[humaneatingmonkey]

Well scum-Prism would rather leave with a universal townread than a universal scumread, because it makes our job harder; e.g. if they leave with catboi then you and I can just go together, but if they leave with you then I don't have an easy partner and catboi is still alive and a problem.

what you said was

something smart

[humaneatingmonkey]

Prism is so badass.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Chuck Norris looks under his bed for Prism.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Would it benefit anyone if I trusted monkey here? I don't see the advantage, but I'd be comfortable doing that if it was useful.

it would force a read between the two of us.

[humaneatingmonkey]

In what way? You don't townread me and Prism?

Murdercat's readlist includes me as scum so it's obviously an ass readlist.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Murdercat, do you find Infinity's townread on you and catboi's townread on Prism believable?

[humaneatingmonkey]

catboi and prism being the scumteam is my anti-hero solve

[humaneatingmonkey]

Still don't see the benefit to proposing as a widely scumread player, scum!prism won't accept

it conftowns people much how ydrasse was conftowned by hectic and i

[humaneatingmonkey]

Seems like we'd be executing a losing strategy in that case!

why? bussing is how you play this game: you dont have to trust each other (and you can't!), at least one of you would be trusted early (because of how it polarizes the game), and when they exit, it makes you look good.

I've been fantasizing about a scum game here since modding it.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Again, is there something I'm missing? It seems suboptimal to me for scum to accept a trust fall with a scummier player if they could trust fall with a townier player later to get them out of the pool. Therefore, it's not a clear.

except in this strategy, the towniest players would not be set up to trust each other.

[humaneatingmonkey]

if we're always setting it up that scummiest players would trust towniest players, then they can't strategize around taking the towniest people with them.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Going with consensus reads is very likely to be wrong in my opinion

well you're wrong about me so i dont know about that

[humaneatingmonkey]

The townier players dont have to accept, but having multiple options to leave but not taking them points towards town.

[humaneatingmonkey]

uwu

[humaneatingmonkey]

i see catboi hasn't popped the question yet

[humaneatingmonkey]

catboi is there any reason to doubt prism's alignment?

[humaneatingmonkey]

sorry inutile i'm too high to understand that question. first i have no idea what happened in the tarot game. second i don't remember prism expressing that they were upset with a town/town pairing. maybe i'm not remembering a lot of these contexts?

[humaneatingmonkey]

do you think scum!prism would be more or less likely to express that they were upset with a town/town pairing after witnessing menalque’s reaction to a scum flip in the tarot game?

inutile i can answer you now.

i think prism is more likely to express any criticism period. she hounds other people about their play all the time. that's what's fun about her.

i now ask you: are you more likely to become more convoluted in your reads when you are scum?

[humaneatingmonkey]

i think that if you're comparing the prism's reactions in the game and to the reactions she had when she was a spectator with the purpose of getting any sort of read on her (and i assume, a town read) is a bit more convoluted than this sentence.

[humaneatingmonkey]

? i just don’t think scum!prism would be looking to mimic menalques pitfall

why not? sorry i have dropped 20 points in IQ this past hour

[humaneatingmonkey]

Hard to solve without info

i remember you being apprehensive about my idea of starting to trust people. did i remember right?

[humaneatingmonkey]

But at this point I only held off to make sure no one else was going to raise some objection to this.

why would anyone's objection matter if you're confident with your own reads?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Not that I expect you to, but don't accept this if you're town.

CATBOI IS SCUM HAHAHAHAHA

[humaneatingmonkey]

Why not?

[humaneatingmonkey]

why would you not want Prism to trust you?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Ha scum

[humaneatingmonkey]

Slam

[humaneatingmonkey]

Okay, now Infinity, trust Prism.

[humaneatingmonkey]

getting scum vibes from you S_S but I'm not sober enough to articulate my vibes

[humaneatingmonkey]

There. We just conftowned Prism.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Except for S_S, who's playing his own game, which makes me think scum.

We could be doing a catboi/S_S here.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I don't know why you trusted Prism there

[humaneatingmonkey]

but aren't we doing scummiest players trusting towniest players? you're one of the townier players iirc. maybe now you're scummier.

[humaneatingmonkey]

there is too

[humaneatingmonkey]

I would want to leave with you, Prism, but I think I have to stay and make sure catboi doesn't leave this game.

[humaneatingmonkey]

how about we get catboi to trust someone else?

how about that catboi? are you townreading anyone else? let's get you a date.

[humaneatingmonkey]

there's a lot of incentive for you to do this if town. and negative incentive for you to do this as scum.

[humaneatingmonkey]

trust me, catboi

[humaneatingmonkey]

you're universally scumread right now. if you're town, you're actively harming our PoE because you are pegged as scum. and so if you can use being universally scumread to confirm your townreads, then it would be pro-town and awesome.

[humaneatingmonkey]

it seems that you trust me so much that you're willing to allow Prism and I to be paired — how's about you trust me?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Why?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Why do you want me in particular to put a trust on you?

that's a question you need to answer. you're willing to pair Prism and I away. that means you trust me. why?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Because this game gets a lot harder once the first scum gets out and prism is effective town now

it's not dumb. you just say it is. we can do to me what we did to prism. have the scummiest guy who townreads me trust me. then see what my reaction would be. Then have the other safer candidates trust me. Then see what my reaction would be.

[humaneatingmonkey]

you're just trying to slippery slope fallacy now. doing it to everyone was never the point.

catboi is someone we can risk for scum to pair with and run with. in fact, it would be pro-town to have him flip town at this point.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm not strongly confident on that read but was willing to bank on the strength of Prism's read, partly because I know Prism perceives things in games differently than I do and often sees things I do not, which makes me willing to gamble a little. Right now though, I'm trying to parse the motivations of what you're doing here.

i thought i was getting townier and townier? never had a real read on me, did ya?

doesn't matter. you still trust the read enough to let Prism pair off with me. it shouldn't be that much of a big deal for you to trust me.

[humaneatingmonkey]

well what about it do you not understand

[humaneatingmonkey]

Why do you want it? What does me trusting you achieve?

It shows everyone what I'll do with your trust and make reads off that. Basically, I want to be conftown too

[humaneatingmonkey]

catboi: monkey is good enough to allow my strongest townread (who i am volunteering to leave the game with) to trust him, but not good enough to actually have me trust him.
so scum!me would solicit your trust instead, rather than Prism who is more universally townread and would leave the game with me?
ha scum

[humaneatingmonkey]

shocking

[humaneatingmonkey]

Best of luck, partner?

[humaneatingmonkey]

You're not scum are ya

[humaneatingmonkey]

This isn't like that time where I trolled you as I left the game, right?

[humaneatingmonkey]

damn you're good

[humaneatingmonkey]

this is why i didn't want the townier people trusting each other.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Well duh

[humaneatingmonkey]

Catboi S_S honestly

[humaneatingmonkey]

Actually, if I may be permitted a brief moment of self-indulgence:

EAT SHIT PRISM, I HAD YOU RIGHT ALL ALONG AND YOU HAD ME WRONG, I WARNED YOU NOT TO AND YOU PAIRED WITH SCUM ANYWAY

凸ಠ益ಠ)凸

Where have you tried to discourage it

[humaneatingmonkey]

Put your trusts on me

[humaneatingmonkey]

Double down

[humaneatingmonkey]

Everyone

[humaneatingmonkey]

THIS IS NOW THE BACHELOR.

[humaneatingmonkey]

5 CONTESTANTS VIE FOR THE HEART OF ONE YOUNG MAN

[humaneatingmonkey]

Where's my trust catboi

[humaneatingmonkey]

lame

[humaneatingmonkey]

inutile is my top townread, and i want to leave the game with her in the last 4 players.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Can you explain why? I don't see how it follows from S_S scum.

Prism is confirmed town and there's 1 less scum in the game, plus I was shown to be wrong about the gamestate

But why does that lead to the conclusion of HEM's town equity being way up? I don't follow what the logic is supposed to be here.

to hero solve here you don't really need anyone's trust

The opportunity for a hero solve is gone, I took my 1 shot per game

Not true, someone should be the person trusting people and clearing them here. If you want to be the one taking charge, you trust your townreads and clear them. But I would advise holding off on that.

T R U S T

[humaneatingmonkey]

I like catboi as town

[humaneatingmonkey]

trust me infinity

[humaneatingmonkey]

i like murdercat as town

[humaneatingmonkey]

murdercat if i were you i wouldn't trust infinity

[humaneatingmonkey]

Murdercat what happened to the plan of leaving behind

[humaneatingmonkey]

shiki let's solve this game

[humaneatingmonkey]

HERE I COME

[humaneatingmonkey]

IM GONNA WIN

[humaneatingmonkey]

99% TO SCUM WIN CONDITION

[humaneatingmonkey]

ALL I HAVE TO DO IS TRUST INFINITY NOW AND ITS OVER

[humaneatingmonkey]

YOU FELL FOR IT

[humaneatingmonkey]

Okay so now that I've gotten that out of my system, I would actually like shiki to come in to help me with this game.

[humaneatingmonkey]

shiki I'm gonna make a game-losing bet by trusting you so we can be masons.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Monkey do you still think it's catboi?

no actually

[humaneatingmonkey]

Infinity find the scum

[humaneatingmonkey]

I still just doubt S_S encourages me/HEM quickly yesterday if HEM is town, so pairing them off is likely safe as well.

Do you think s_s would think he has any influence on whether you two actually pair?

what was the purpose of this question Infinity

[humaneatingmonkey]

I trust inutile

GG

[humaneatingmonkey]

I untrust inutile

sike

[humaneatingmonkey]

inutile come here so i can read you better

[humaneatingmonkey]

There's no reason for me to stop you, fmpov

this is scummy

[humaneatingmonkey]

no more trusts before inutile and i are conftown, then we can mason

[humaneatingmonkey]

or we lost

[humaneatingmonkey]

Oh hey monkey is clear, I guess I can eat shit after all on that

yes eat shit

[humaneatingmonkey]

eat shit, catboi

[humaneatingmonkey]

anyone who trusts is scum claiming. i get to handpick my masonry now. this game is now about me.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Infinity clearing a bunch of people, or at least clearing the people she thinks is most town, can be interpreted in two ways:
1. scum with reckless abandon just trying to get herself trusted
2. town because there's no scum incentive to clear people

shiki what's your take

[humaneatingmonkey]

everyone say at least one thing they like about me

[humaneatingmonkey]

I like how monkey lets his emotions go free without regard to how he's perceived. I'm envious tbh

aren't you able to do it this game?

[humaneatingmonkey]

you were pretty loosey goosey with your emotions last time

[humaneatingmonkey]

My boy Dwlee just said he's gonna settle the score about trusts and untrusts

[humaneatingmonkey]

Trust Count 3.01

Trusting

: No one yet!

In the Game

: Infinity 324, catboi, humaneatingmonkey, MURDERCAT, Dannflor, inutile

Deadline

: (expired on 2021-07-31 19:48:04)

Mod notes

: I'm allowing untrusts as I had previously reflected they are possible in last day's vote count. I believe this is also in the spirit of the original setup, as when I looked at it I saw players untrusting. If you disagree with this decision, shoot me a PM and I can ask a list mod. Please don't discuss PMing me publicly, though. Thanks!

Infinity trusted me

[humaneatingmonkey]

I trust monkey

I'm gonna get this over with. I'm feeling paranoid about murder right now but I'm pretty sure that's irrational and I don't think we can really account for the possibility that murder is scum here.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Like infinity still from ISO, there's some movement to her reads, thoughts evolve in time with the thread, reasoning all feels believable. I know that's a vague shitty explanation but whatever, I'm not delivering a fullblown towncase here. Don't know why she scumreads me but that's okay! I feel like out of everyone remaining I'd be most confident in clearing her.

inutile/shiki read

[humaneatingmonkey]

hey catboi, if i trust you, will you be scum?

[humaneatingmonkey]

hi inutile

[humaneatingmonkey]

i want to trust you, but i have no strong reasons to do it other than there are more people that might be scum than you are. help me?

[humaneatingmonkey]

shiki if you would pocket me, or pocket someone, how have you historically done it?

[humaneatingmonkey]

i just realized that i have no idea how to read you and i'm not gonna put myself in the position where I'll need to decide if you're town or not, potentially losing this game

[humaneatingmonkey]

do you still think infinity is scum, shiki?

[humaneatingmonkey]

do you think catboi is scum, shiki?

[humaneatingmonkey]

how does the paragon of mafia hunters get me so wrong, and then devolve into shallow reads like townreading me after S_S flips but not catboi.

[humaneatingmonkey]

do you think catboi town would commit to a prism townread immediately in the early game?

[humaneatingmonkey]

today is probably hem + hem's #1 scum read and we accept we lose to scum hem now

how does the paragon of mafia hunters decide this is an okay result for this game where he's town

[humaneatingmonkey]

how does the paragon of mafia hunters change from "i want to stay behind to lead the game" to "trust me infinity"

[humaneatingmonkey]

infinity only cleared you, but its probably town indicative, yeah? like there's no immediate pressure for mafia here and there's no expectation for you to accept?

infinity was willing to trust murdercat as well

[humaneatingmonkey]

Infinity what pair do you think should happen next / can you trust me

I'm not going to accept immediately, I just want to be confirmed

shiki i want to pop the question.

[humaneatingmonkey]

if i trust you, will you end up being town?