Micro 1022 | Purgatory | 80s music | Game Over

[flow trap]

My entire thought process used to be just gut tbh

so... what is it now then?

Reading ever post at surface level and forming my own conclusions.

That's step 1, Oliver

[Dannflor]

MT, will you be around tonight?

[Morning Tweet]

Likely

also, hello again Dann and redtea!!

And thank you for explaining 388 LOL will get to that and the rest of the reread later most likely yes

[Esooa]

VOTE: Morning Tweet

[Morning Tweet]

lol i was about to get a little annoyed, forgot what phase we were in

I'm back for round #2. Will my Ich/Farren TRs + Redtea/flow TLs + Dann/Esooa/T3 team be torn to pieces ???

the couple of times i was reflecting about some of the stuff i said

I'm wary of the secondary tier T3 scum reads because I feel like if town - he's going to be a slot scum are always going to want to have in their back pocket as a miselim

like the way people are sort of dancing around his slot is feeling... performative? at the very least it makes me think Enchant/T3 are less likely to be aligned - the "meta I can't talk about" is a non-case but also taken seriously enough that it reads genuine. could easily be scum picking a random push on an easy townie but i lean towards that not being an lolrandom bus

This is the kinda read I make as scum in order to justify not voting someone

It's too.... I don't know how to explain. It's the kind of thing that is the means to an end more than an actual read (at least if I used it). Cause see, you could do it like any number of ways depending on what u need:

"If T3 is town, I think the scum are going to keeps SRs there for an easy miselim option"
"If T3 is town, I figure scum are going to keep him null and let down deal with him most likely"
"If T3 is town, there's no good reason to actually TR him, non-scumreaders are probably TMIing"

idk if that conveys my thinking well. The point is id make a read like that as scum. Also "but i lean towards" is phrasing i use as scum a bit more often but that's a non-point since obviously i dont know if thats true for Dann

And maybe that wouldn't bother me so much if it weren't for this:

why are you townreading me or flow trap?

Because you used bad reasoning but were correct as to why in your townread of me so I think the thought was real.
Actually I don't know why I'm townreading flow trap.

I can maybe see T3 town now

I can maybe see T3 town now

:eek: Are you scum?

First because im not exactly sure why Dann townread that (see my point i made earlier, this is showing a lack of thought process by T3 -- he forgot the read like 5 minutes after he made it. Usually i townread T3 when he seems to have some deeper thinking, not missing it!). But also T3's response.. just like why do you say that.. it just seems like awkwardly feeling like u gotta reply to partner to distance i d f k.

And T3 is in Dann's nulls, he obviously preferred Enchant yesterday and apparently flow (havent got there tho). Just seems sort of partner like

But yeah anyway that's what was primarily on my mind. im gonna go back to..... page... 19

[Morning Tweet]

Oh if I were to ask Dann something though, why did you lean T3 town early game if i may ask. And additionally, is there any other reasoning you could give me with respect to 336 in specific -- cause I feel like i can think of mayyybe one reason it makes sense actually but it's not for the reasoning you stated and idk if maybe you had a bigger reason to believe scum would be more likely to SR town!T3

[Morning Tweet]

would you further agree that, if you think that that is the wolfiest post in the thread, the fact that your initial reaction to what troje said about your meta was to imply that they were not up to date on it rather than to think that they were scum simply lying to push you somewhat indicates that you actually believe (or are informed) that troje is town?

1. esooa calls ich's post "the wolfiest in the thread"
2. the generous route is to say "you're not up to date on my meta, get your shit together." the ungenerous route is to say "you're scum making shit up. this doesn't even line up with my meta."
3. despite esooa's wolfy read of ich's post, she takes the generous route
4. so the question posed is: why is esooa, especially considering her meta, being generous and defensive, instead of firing back?
now that i'm laying it out, i don't think i fully comprehended this post at the time lmao
nsg kicks ass

i dont have anywhere to go with this im just being a helpful teacher's pet because i crave human interaction and have nothing else to do

OH I want to look at this bit again

I think I understand. It's all kinda circular. Ich calls Esooa more defensive/fighty as town, Esooa goes the generous route and doesn't get annoyed with Ich, but in doing so is doing the thing that Ich said would be scummier.

That is a hell of a post LOL.

So I do make posts (although they're a lot less detailed than that one) which are essentially going "Hmm.. you're doing X and Y even though Z, aren't you.." and i like dont really expect them to say something particularly helpful in response, it's just a comment to remind myself, show thought process, start discussion, whatever. So a rhetorical question or essentially a comment I guess. Sometimes it's not because you're expecting a helpful answer. Okay let me read Dann's post understanding better

by the way dann, i'm curious. i'm decently confident that you're relatively similar to me when it comes to following a flow of making a prediction, asking a question, and updating based on the response. so what was your prediction for this question, and how would you have updated either way i would have answered it?

Honestly? I expected you to say you were trying to model some facet of RC's play this game, or that you were trying to push or question more aggressively, or something along those lines.

I feel like there's a noticeable shift in the way you're approaching slots that I'm not used to seeing from you, (using Mini Normal 2187: PIFiMDM as my point of reference) and I asked because I think you are a player who would reasonably try to evolve or change or adapt their gameplay for a variety of reasons.

My model of you as a player is similar to what you've described as first making a prediction, then asking a question, and then updating whether privately or publicly. I also think you are like me in that you tend to spend a good amount of time observing before completely outing everything in your head, before later in the game becoming more completely transparent as you try to put all the information you've collected together. But specifically I also don't think of you as someone who likes to "lead the witness" or ask questions you know you're not going to get a revealing answer from. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you're someone who like builds a case against someone by like putting pressure on someone until they crack - you ask questions yes but you usually also try to give enough space to let that person comfortably show that they are town

This is why I asked you that question because I don't feel you've been playing the way I expect you to, most egregiously in your back and forth with esooa

specifically posts #386 and #388 felt very... out of character for my conception of how you would react in this situation. both questions appear to me to not really be questions? Like I don't believe you actually thought you were going to get a informative answer out of esooa either way here. You're framing an observation or essentially a "case" as a question for the person you're accusing, and not really in a way that allows for esooa to respond in any other way than basically "uh no" which is indeed how she reacted. you say you don't normally like to "lead the witness" and it feels like that is exactly what you're doing.

like did you actually get anything out of asking those questions? you disappeared from the conversation after you asked them. it feels more like a "gotcha" than you were genuinely interested in figuring out if there was a townie motivation for esooa's read there.

would you agree, that if town, esooa probably isn't going to respond to #388 with anything other than a variation of "uh no?" would you expect scum!esooa to have a different answer?

I got the point you were making on that page but honestly? it feels more like you found something scummy you could push rather than you finding an inconsistency and wanting to genuinely question it.

Okay so the question didn't feel "intentional" to Dann, it seemed more showy than actually asked for a purpose. I believe I am understanding this right.

I still feel like Dann is blowing something up to being scummier than it is, just like with flow at the beginning of the game. The RC modelling points are not bad at all and tbh I think shows a very impressive thought process if Dann is scum. I think the "it feels like you were going for a 'gotcha' rather than genuine questioning" point is overkill. It feels somewhat less likely to me that Dann got that conclusion from again what I think is more a comment worded as a question. Adding in the "you disappeared afterwards" and such feels like blowing something small into something bigger

Mm mm mmm it's so tricky though, I could believe it from town too

[Farren]

UNVOTE: Esooa
VOTE: Morning Tweet

[Morning Tweet]

Spoiler:

I feel almost uncomfortably white knighted here lol

and I'm someone who loves when people simp for me

anyways to talk more about the nsg stuff, maybe I'm just speaking from an outside perspective, not knowing nsg, but I didn't have a problem with her posts

I guess that's mostly cause, while her points were kinda weak in terms of actually being a scum read, I thought they were fine enough and they showed a pretty reasonable depth of thought

my biggest problem is that I got no response to this

i would say there are other concerns.

would it bother you if i refrained from elaborating on those for a while?

do you have nothing to say about my responses to you?

and I still have no clue what nsg thinks of my alignment at this point

I guess this kinda does get to what dann is saying though, her 'questions' irt to me don't actually seem to have been relevant, considering there's been no development after

even if they're not actually questions it feels bad to answer her problems and get.. nothing really

meh, there's valid concerns here and I do like that they're something Dann noticed, but overall I still find nsgs posts to be towny

would you say you're scum reading her rn, Dann? or is this more just something you wanted to bring up

I guess the vote on her kinda answers my last question lol

I'll ask instead what you think of slots like t3 or red

Every time you three interact in any capacity the alarm bell in my brain gets a little bit louder

Specifically i could see you and Dann goodcop/badcopping NSG since you don't really disagree with Dann but you're also keeping NSG as town so you're fine with both and the push (which is your counterwagon) can continue.

And obviously every time Dann/T3/Esooa interact extraneously (like asking Dann that question before realizing it didn't really need asking) i freak out a little. I'm pretty sure I'm just confbiased and tuning into these things but it's so interesting to me i cant help but comment on it everytime i see it so sorry for that

Because of a lack of push on me this game d1, I've been notably different thus far than my usual towngames, why did you put me at the top?

because you're being pocketed. Get some better reads. Maybe reading glasses

i laughed

Esooa interacts with Ich noticeably different from T3 even though in Esooa's eyes both of their scumreads are bad (regardless of alignment, probably -- T3 doesnt elaborate beyond sheeping and Ich is using meta Esooa says is irrelevant). I guess that might just be a preexisting relation with Ich though. Still kind of doubt Esooa and Ich go for that as buddies........ I think. Could see T3 and Ich doing it although granted T3 is putting Esooa at risk for basically no reason other than i guess distancing of some sort

And distancing is important in this setup! But does scum know that... well I've been reading like they do, in any case

Town!Esooa did a lot of analyzing the specific post/page in happy face and not much blanket reading. That was really the only thing that stood out.

you mean the same game I literally coasted the entirety of day 2 without doing anything?

Stop fucking using meta. This is unbelievable. It's so bad.

Also, VOTE: T3

Hmmmm so T3 offered more reasons in response to the first round of replies by Esooa. and then Esooa snapped at him, I see

This reaction reads to me as genuine?

UNVOTE: Esooa

Granted this does shake my confidence a bit. It actually kinda comes off more as appeasing Esooa than a distance, I think. Especially considering Esooa never lets up on T3 for the rest of the game. Maybe misread Esooa possibly

Esooa can you elaborate on your nsg read

Esooa can you elaborate on your nsg read

sure

So Esooa is the primary wagon with NSG as the secondary, but Esooa TRs NSG so she's voting T3 at the moment. Dann asks for Esooa to elaborate on NSG. I was going to make a point about mayyybe scum motivations for this but tbh there are too many possible motivations so whatever

i tried to meta redtea and their towngame has a depth that is not present here but also they've had town games where they literally just half flake and its -_- how do I read this shit.

VOTE: redtea fuck it.

WIM is at an all time low and we need a flip to kickstart this shit b4 apathy sets in

praying for a scum flip

sorry for sending u to hell redtea

i actually thought it was when I posted but when I said yea i knew it wasn't lol

I'm sooooort of doubting Ich bothers to fake this

i prepare posts in a notes PT as scum. im probably just gonna ignore that section

as I read on I do lean more to redtea being town................................ probably. Already got burnt on that once. Not sure if i could quantify it either

[Morning Tweet]

Spoiler:

Can you remind me, when we play together?
I can't remember.

Newbie 2051 I believe

Thanks. Now i want to forget it again.

Either way, do you have questions to me?

lol

what do you find strange about it? I admit I had trouble navigating the phrasing at first but I think it makes pretty clear sense to me now

Last night when i saw the posts I briefly thought a dann/redtea/nsg team was viable based on thinking that there was beatlejuice going on to save redtea but on reflection of the above i dont think so. If redtea IS scum I think though the 2 have higher chances of being scum based on that event

hahaha, that is a completely backwards and paranoiac take

way, way

less likely than even individually a scumslip happening.

That'd have been incredible

633 - i dont know why but im eating up most of what Farren is posting this game, dunno why.

VOTE: t3

Unpopular opinion.

You guys are fucking killing me with the random comments on each other

To be honest i have no idea wtf Enchant did to become Dann's top scumread, voted by T3 in a random short span, scumread by Ich, and flow seemed to do some sort of "gotcha" thing that went over my head. Maybe i should free up time to do mafia when it isn't 4 am one of these times...

He's a little awkward. 623 was kind of unecessarily defensive. Maybe. He did some jokey comments under pressure. I suppose it looked sort of bad

[esooa, ich troje]
[farren, red tea?]
[nsg, t3] - null/mixed
[flow trap]
[enchant]

this is about where I am after a reread

I wanna ask about all these lol

what about myself and ich

YOU GUYS ARE KILLING ME

Interesting that NSG wanted to "fight" dann over Ich!town (dann thinking Ich is diseased town brain rather than scum brain). Feel like if Dann is scum thats probably a read on a townie.

Dannflor: are you aware of how Judgment Day works in this setup?

Dannflor: are you aware of how Judgment Day works in this setup?

I've modded this setup once and played it once before

Excellent. Then how does someone you think has a "diseased town brain" and comes up with a "crackpot paranoia theory" makes a good Heaven candidate, given the existence of Judgment Day?

Diseased as in paranoid and conspiracy theory like.... not like, bad at reading.

Seems like Farren is town though i dont think there was any point to doing that as scum at all. I see Ich took it as a discredit though. I sort of lean against that, not really sure im seeing the point of discrediting one particular read by one player about a future phase that hasnt even happened yet

Farren, it feels really badly like you're setting up to avoid voting for me D2 and planting excuses as well as pushing others to not do so either. Not sure what to think of it.

Like yeah i dont see any reason why scum!Farren would feel pressured to do that really. I'd probably not do that in his shoes considering the likely repercussions

I feel like I've explained myself as well I can

my ideal heaven would be nsg because I respect her reads the most but only if I can be very confident she's town

heavening scum makes this game very very hard

ich troje is currently one of my top town reads and that's really the only criteria i care about beyond them beyond town reading me

A little worried Dann is going to continue to use this as an excuse to squeak out of Heavening NSG down the line --- wait a minute this read feels familiar

This isn't really a discredit though, this is just setting NSG up as being one that you must be very sure is town to heaven. If Dann and Farren were both scum setting up seeds so they can paranoia on players later, Dann is setting a finely-tuned and subtle trap whereas Farren is basically outright announcing he is setting up a landmine and putting a bright red "X" where he places it

If that makes sense o.o

Nevertheless I can appreciate the heavy irony of making a read literally seconds after I have the opposite take on a similar read. I crack myself up sometimes

[Morning Tweet]

kinda agree this entire argument is pretty dumb though. "Diseased town brain" is relating to ONE read koba made. Dann isn't saying they're gonna make awful reads. Kobas actually good at lylos imo anyways. But yeah the amount of things farren is just neglecting here is pretty bad

in any case, I agree it was a faulty argument though, yes ^^ This is pretty much exactly how i interpreted it

[Morning Tweet]

After a brief reskim I firmly believe Enchant/Farren is TvS

...did these two even interact before this post was made?

I had a dream RC replaced into this game and yelled at nsg and I for having terrible reads

holy shit lol

Briefly considered if redtea/Farren are scum together and i have every read wrong

i would heaven farren in an instant, for the record, if not for the fact i think he might be a critical player for town atm

that's my one strong read

I'm.. doubting it, though

Oh good I'm at the weird end of day i mentioned all the way back at the start of my rep-in!! With context now!

Flow trap, T3, and Dann are still voting for Enchant for... whatever reasoning I guess when Enchant had that small burst of posts.

Enchant and Esooa are obviously still on T3 with quite some conviction. Then Farren joins and it is reiterated that Enchant will die if nothing happens.

Redtea unvoted a couple of pages ago. Thinks flow is mafia but scumleans on Enchant at least a bit. NSG I take it was just gone.

..

Flow trap listens to Ich and votes for Farren for whatever reason, so now T3 is going to die. and T3 votes for Farren so Farren is second place..

T3 convinces Farren to switch off of him and vote out Enchant instead. Holy shit lol and T3 just so happens to "not scumread Farren", okay. I will note Farren's behaviour is actually pretty towny to me here, i think him pondering and realizing that T3 can betray him if he wants but overall it'll be better for knowledge is just something that'd be harder to have faked. Page 32 for reference.

But yeah T3 though. Lol. Basically just did whatever to survive, i dont exactly buy that he just so happened to townread Farren

I only voted Enchant because I wanted to save farren and me.

You mean yourself. If you cared about Farren, why would you vote him over yourself. Especially considering your limbait past. How is this something you thought about as town at all

Surely you would have not swapped to Farren as town, just seems odd to me. Im gonna review that again tomorrow though see if i still feel strongly about that. Makes no sense to me rn

Oh yeah, twilight is a thing. I can post until flipped.

Hope you've got a lot of good explaining skills, Enchant, because that was a pretty scummy last minute vote there.

Last words: keep Ich Troje out of heaven.

You know you werent being limmed here

I mean, T3 could have limmed Farren if he wanted

I think the general stereotype/reputation of NSG as a player is that she has an excellent town game, so excellent, in fact, that meta is an strong tool to catch her with when she's scum. she also tends to prefer town and has a much higher posting rate and WIM when town. I think she *might* tend to make more time for games where she rolls town but i wouldn't consider flakiness or lurking to be strictly AI *by itself*

nsg can feel free to correct me on any of that assessment obviously but that's how I assess the general perception of her as a player

Do you have a conclusion from this as to NSG's alignment? It seems like you're implying she's at least slightly more likely scum. At least enough paranoia to not be sure enough to Heaven her, despite wanting her there, i would say (・ω<)

ich troje if you had to vote someone who wasn't yourself this phase, do you know who it would be?

For me, I would've said T3 a few days ago, but now I'm unsure

Probably Ich tbh

You wanted to heaven T3?

[Morning Tweet]

blablabla skimming Ich/Farren interactions if they're important ill look at em again. Presently thinking both town. I might even have Farren more strongly as town........ maybe

I wish t3 went over instead though

maybe this is me just saying this cause enchant was a town flip but I don't know why a single person is town reading t3 tbh

I think my first choice for heaven though would be Dan

Oh this reminds me!!! of the other thing i was pondering today but forgot!!!

Feel like this team could probably use the townreads on Dann + the cred for bussing T3 in order to win. So that sort of justifies bussing the shit out of T3, i think, cause i think if Dann is scum they are positioned well enough

Uh yeah thats basically all i got to say on that. Okay it wasnt as deep a thought as i remembered

Im sorry for this but im probably gonna go over most of the stuff happening in phase 2 tmrw cause I'm hungry and tired

[Morning Tweet]

Fun game to read although in hindsight i would have liked more content to read, actually! I've got *some* thoughts competing in my head

Redtea is a townlean i feel i cannot be certain of. In a way, same with flowtrap. I don't really know yet.

Really like Redtea's take on Farren now in hindsight. Is he right about Farren cause they're informed or because they're right (i think) town? Eeeeeeh idk yet

And there are glimpses of Dann and Esooa that i see on occasion that makes me pause. So, can't really be sure.. im really not there

T3 just gets scummier as I read though I have no idea why he's not being called out harder. Including by Dann who seemingly has him null. Ich and Farren I get are kinda distracted, though.

Im still offput by T3/Dann together, so Dann just doesnt find T3 scummy and ignores him in favour of Enchant, Dann had the theory that scum will want to SR T3 so he's wary of scumreading him too easily.. T3 interacts with Dann sort of awkwardly for no reason.... like mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Esooa]

well my only apprehension about heavening MT is that I want them in the game

That's pretty much all I've got for this day phase

[Esooa]

it sucks having to basically carry out the same function as night killing your top town lol

there's no night kills so you just have to do it yourself

fucked up

[flow trap]

T3 convinces Farren to switch off of him and vote out Enchant instead. Holy shit lol and T3 just so happens to "not scumread Farren"

iirc it was they scumread farren less

[flow trap]

You wanted to heaven T3?

I appearently didn't say T3 was a TR or if I did I can't find it

I kind of implied it here

Spoiler:

I don't recall you saying you TR enchant, so is there another reason?

vote farren

im intending to switch to t3 regardless b4 deadline. I'm not letting a wagon farren wants get through

Ok, VOTE: Farren

Actually I don't know why I'm townreading flow trap.

My charm obviously

Though, perhaps a sense of TvT banter

[T3]

Morning Tweet is town for effort I think. That doesn't totally outweigh the meta case on nsg.

[flow trap]

It's easy to post a lot when you start with 39 pages?

[T3]

HURT: flow trap

[Ich Troje]

lol.
MT definitely rolled a scum PM with farren

[flow trap]

HURT: flow trap

no

[Dannflor]

Hey I’m really sorry

Rl has been kicking my ass

I promise this game will get my time after work today

Currently fine with ich troje going to heaven

[Dannflor]

But would appreciate like 12 more hours to gather my thoughts