White flag #824 game over

[GuiltyLion]

Yours on me, is one of the awful ones as you got nothing from it and honestly it looks like a defence attempt using mech as way out.

can you explain what you mean by "defense attempt using mech as a way out", I don't follow what you're saying. When you say "using mech" are you talking about my point that I don't think I would bus in a bussing-worse-than-normal setup?

[GuiltyLion]

oh yeah I guess I lied about not engaging with you because I'm really eager to hear your response to this:

multiple people (implosion, datisi, infinity) all echo the reason I had to scumread you (trying to convince us that you can't be partners with dwlee because you voted them one time). if im making up narratives and not arguing in good faith and my suspicion is just so bad it can't be genuine... what are they? scum too?

gentle reminder for GL in case he "forgot" about this

serious question: why the scare quotes? Why is every post of yours an attempt to make me look as bad as possible?

this is also an attempt at a "gotcha" contradiction rather than a good faith reading of my posts, the obvious difference in context is that you specifically claimed to scumread both of us and that you see us as partnered, then went on to say I had no "palatable options" of voting elsewhere.

Whereas the others are more pushing back on my scumread of you and my argument that YOUR argument is fake. I don't believe any of them claim to share your view that Dwlee/GL was S-S, that's the difference.

[Infinity 324]

i think it could've been s/s (not really anymore but at the time i thought it was >rand true)

[GuiltyLion]

anyway I'm gonna try to stop beating on this drum for a bit as I think this game is getting a bit too centered on me defending myself/my goats read

One other thing though Flea

I'm fairly good on goats rn, isn't someone I'd be willing to take into YOLO at this point but I like their style

what about their style makes them town? This isn't a read, it's just a reason to not be voting them / to vote alongside them

[Datisi]

guilty, if you want a break from talking about goats, could you address my 247 please? (i'll read the big post soon i promise)

[cyrus62]

vote count 1.3

GuiltyLion

: (3) goats, Datisi, implosion

bugspray

(2): Gamma Emerald,Dwlee99,

implosion

(1):bugspray,

Dwlee99

(1): Infinity 324,

Gamma Emerald

(2): , Klick

Not_Mafia

(1): Not_Mafia

PookyTheMagicalBear

(1): MURDERCAT

goats

(1): GuiltyLion,

Not Voting

(2): PookyTheMagicalBear and flea

with 13 alive it takes 7 votes to be kicked off the island

day1 ends in (expired on 2021-08-21 16:19:39)

mod note we anit yeeting we are kicking them off the island[/b]

[GuiltyLion]

ah sorry, I missed that last night

i guess my q is, why are you so sure that i don't post that as scum? i *think* your idea of my scumgame is pretty outdated, but i know you read at least one of my morr recent games, so i'm curious how you got here.

it's not based on an idea of your scumgame specifically, its grounded in whether or not you

know

my alignment here. If you were scum, even if you had genuinely thought that you remembered a surface level difference in my play from my last town game to use as evidence for a fabricated push, I think once you went and checked and saw that I was consistent you'd just be less inclined to bring it up at all.

The sentiment is effectively "I thought GL was different than his town game, but I just checked and it was the same" - what benefit does that serve you at that point? there's just more disincentives for scum to post this, its convoluted, doesn't help you push me nor is it used as a reason to townread me, and the general risk/self-consciousness of it possibly coming across as fake. It doesn't strike me as either fitting in by sheeping people's reads nor boosting an agenda, this would be inventing a thought process solely because you thought you might post it as town. And overall I kinda think you'd be less likely to misremember a difference in my play in general if you were starting from an informed perspective

[GuiltyLion]

Scumplosion jumping on a wagon the minute he sees any traction on it

NM what'd you think of 272

I don't know if scum!implosion would post that if his intent is to continue to vote and push me later

[GuiltyLion]

bugspray and Pooky have both visited the site elsewhere but not here since the whole goats/GL thing, in a vacuum I find that slightly suspicious

I still townread Inf, implosion, Datisi, Dwlee, Gamma. I'm a little less pro N_M as I was earlier but I already committed him as My HardTown so gonna let that sit on the backburner for today

I can see Flea's play around me as kinda scummy regardless of if goats is town or not, the way they dropped the goats suspicion to angle to vote me could be either distancing or pivoting to capitalize on town pushing town, I also don't like that fae still hasn't put down a vote on me despite taking several opportunities to shade me

and I don't feel like I'm wrong on goats, even absent the point about Dwlee/GL partner idea being fake, the over the top performative way they've pushed my wagon and the misreps I'm struggling to convince myself come from town

Klick and MURDERCAT are total non-entities so far

[Infinity 324]

gamma and implo are my hardtown

[implosion]

I am interested in why @implosion thinks that GL would not react like this if he is partners with Dwlee. especially with Dwlee continuing to defend him after his attack on me.

I think his frustration and rhetoric of "I wouldn't play like this as scum" reads as genuine/I think faking that kind of thing (just absolutely blatantly lying about self-meta and claiming he can back it up) is not the kind of thing GL would do there as scum with Dwlee.

I can agree with GL that Flea's 276 is somewhat shady. I can also agree with Datisi's 299 that that line from GL is somewhat townish.

More later at some point.

[Dwlee99]

The reeval you have all been waiting for

Gamma Emerald
PookyTheMagicalBear
Infinity 324
Dwlee99
implosion
Not_Mafia

Flea The Magician
GuiltyLion
Datisi
Klick
goats

bugspray
MURDERCAT

I now have a middle row for people that confuse me. Bask in the innovation I have created.

[Gamma Emerald]

@implosion + MURDERCAT: aside from the people who are clearly against it and Not_Mafia, y’all are the only two to not do my thing yet. Would you like to pick some people or are you opting out?

[Datisi]

re 331:

alright. i think you're using incorrect logic to reach the right conclusion, but i'm not *too* interested in arguing with you about why you shouldn't be townreading me off of that. i can see your thought process as genuine, so. back to here.

VOTE: bugspray

[Datisi]

i feel like making a triangle but some people need to post a bit more for me to do that

@dwlee, can you like, talk about your placements? iat least some that confuse you? why is bugs in the bottom tier as opposed to the middle one?

[Dwlee99]

Bugs did a weird hop onto gamma then justified it badly and then did another weird hop onto implosion.

People that confuse me seem townieish but give me reservations.

Flea - they did something that pinged me as townie but have been ??? sometimes

GuiltyLion - duh

Datisi - you seem different from before? but also not? Is this meta?

Klick - posts okay but also not enough to make me think good good

Goats - aggression is townie sort of maybe but also sometimes scum powerwolf there and it makes me nervous especially if GuiltyLion is town

[Infinity 324]

dwlee gives me the same too-reasonable vibes they gave me in draft mafia

[Datisi]

why is guiltylion a "duh"? i don't think you actually said anything about him, other than you liked he kicked your ass into high gear, and then later on that you don't see anything scummy from him. did i miss you talking more in depth about him somewhere?

also uh, do you wanna talk about anything wrt me?

[Infinity 324]

i'm pretty sure datisi is just town

[Dwlee99]

dwlee gives me the same too-reasonable vibes they gave me in draft mafia

Meta BAD

why is guiltylion a "duh"? i don't think you actually said anything about him, other than you liked he kicked your ass into high gear, and then later on that you don't see anything scummy from him. did i miss you talking more in depth about him somewhere?

also uh, do you wanna talk about anything wrt me?

GuiltyLion is a duh because his whole thing with goats is confusing to understand

Idk my reservations on you aren't super rational

You're supposed to obvtown but I didn't feel that way in to tell the truth so

[goats]

uh okay so this is definitely embarrassing but when I started going back through my old scum games/PTs to try to find good posts that would summarize why I don't like to awkwardly commit myself to suspecting/voting partners early game as scum, I actually realized that I forgot that I

did

recently try such a maneuver in my most recent scumgame last year, Forest Fire (link is to the initial distance vote)

here's my post after D1 in the maf PT where I am identifying how it put me in a bad spot, like this is pretty much exactly why I try to avoid it as scum because it played out risky/badly on D1 as expected. But it is kinda egg on my face to see I haven't been completely above trying that move, I remembered fighting with Ydrasse in game making posts more like this but forgot how tentative the initial distancing/vote was.

so while yes I guess I have done it before and maybe it's not unreasonable for someone to think that, I wasn't lying about how I don't

like

to do that as scum and I DO have the receipts of me saying this same thing as town:

1) here (last post before I was misyeeted in DnC, read this + quoted)
2) here ("the idea that I'd open the game as scum by pressuring my partner instead of anyone else I could go after is pretty questionable, to put it lightly")
3) here ("I can show you many past scumgames of me treating my newbie scum partners with kiddie gloves, especially on D1 since I don't like unnecessary attention on them until/unless I'm confident they can handle it." - this is speaking specifically about being partner with a newbie but the latter sentence is true for any partners)
4) here ("I doubt this one will mean a lot coming from me as it's WIFOM and self-meta, but as a point of pride, I really try very hard as scum not to be clumsy about my associatives with my partner. I'll always try to take a firm stance on them whether I'm bussing or townreading and commit to it, I don't make waffley awkward moves around them and if I decide to bus I commit. Later I can pull some scum PTs where I've said as much.")
5) here ("again, me being anyone's top possible scumread is fairly absurd, frankly. to think that I am scum means I decided to death tunnel one of my partners on D1 over literally any other available mislynch. I didn't just casually vote BuJaber as a distance and get stuck there, I put my foot on the gas for that lynch multiple times. Against a mason setup that's extremely suboptimal play" - this one is a slightly different context as I hardpushed scum!BuJaber to an eventual scumflip D1, but the phrasing/point is very similar with regard to a mason setup/white flag setup where Bussing is Bad with a capital B)

I'm not gonna go through all these links because it's a waste of my time, but none of this addresses the primary reason that people have to scumread you which is the part where you tried to paint me as mafia for suspecting you were partners with dwlee

unless you expect me to know this extremely extensive meta beforehand?

[goats]

oh yeah I guess I lied about not engaging with you because I'm really eager to hear your response to this:

multiple people (implosion, datisi, infinity) all echo the reason I had to scumread you (trying to convince us that you can't be partners with dwlee because you voted them one time). if im making up narratives and not arguing in good faith and my suspicion is just so bad it can't be genuine... what are they? scum too?

gentle reminder for GL in case he "forgot" about this

serious question: why the scare quotes? Why is every post of yours an attempt to make me look as bad as possible?

this is also an attempt at a "gotcha" contradiction rather than a good faith reading of my posts, the obvious difference in context is that you specifically claimed to scumread both of us and that you see us as partnered, then went on to say I had no "palatable options" of voting elsewhere.

Whereas the others are more pushing back on my scumread of you and my argument that YOUR argument is fake. I don't believe any of them claim to share your view that Dwlee/GL was S-S, that's the difference.

yeah man you got me. I'm trying to convince the rest of the town to vote you out and am making posts that insinuate you are mafia. you really exposed my hidden motivations there.

so what, people who scumread you and dwlee together are mafia but people who scumread you solo are ok? is infinity scum too for saying she thought it was >rand likely that you were s/s at the time?

[goats]

I am interested in why @implosion thinks that GL would not react like this if he is partners with Dwlee. especially with Dwlee continuing to defend him after his attack on me.

I think his frustration and rhetoric of "I wouldn't play like this as scum" reads as genuine/I think faking that kind of thing (just absolutely blatantly lying about self-meta and claiming he can back it up) is not the kind of thing GL would do there as scum with Dwlee.

I can agree with GL that Flea's 276 is somewhat shady. I can also agree with Datisi's 299 that that line from GL is somewhat townish.

More later at some point.

re: 299

if you think GL is not partners with Dwlee but has independent scum equity then you should be a lot less willing to give him cred for 299. b/c getting frustrated and throwing out a bunch of meta links to prove your accusers wrong is something that scum who is caught for the wrong reasons could easily say, too. in a world where GL is scum but not with Dwlee and he's upset that I'm suspecting him for being paired with Dwlee when he's really not... he might easily have that reaction and try to use meta to rebut the part of my accusation he actually can.

[goats]

The reeval you have all been waiting for

Gamma Emerald
PookyTheMagicalBear
Infinity 324
Dwlee99
implosion
Not_Mafia

Flea The Magician
GuiltyLion
Datisi
Klick
goats

bugspray
MURDERCAT

I now have a middle row for people that confuse me. Bask in the innovation I have created.

assume these tiers are unordered because you aren't at the top of the top tier

i like your bottom tier tho I obviously think GL should be in it. interested to know why you have datisi and klick in middle, i think they're both easy reads and town.

[goats]

why is guiltylion a "duh"? i don't think you actually said anything about him, other than you liked he kicked your ass into high gear, and then later on that you don't see anything scummy from him. did i miss you talking more in depth about him somewhere?

also uh, do you wanna talk about anything wrt me?

GuiltyLion is a duh because

his whole thing with goats is confusing to understand

what's confusing about it?