Open 827: Dead Silence III - Game Over!!

[Enchant]

But yes mafia cant shoot for free. We give them more information the longer we take, though.

What do you suggest we do? Yeet people randomly??

Yes. Well. Mostly.
Masons are half of town. They already have 50%+ chances to kill scum by simple voting outside of masonry. Vanilla should deduce them and FLASHWAGON with them.

[Almost50]

Why would SK magically start having ideas you dont like anyway?

Geez! I just explained it. I wanted to be the SK, and I did have plans. One of them was to analyze wagons to sort people into 3 groups (of 5 if possible) and then shoot a player with a random guess. If I'm spot on I have practically identified one group and have 2 groups that are "not that type". If I'm wrong I know this group isn't "my guess". Nobody knows if I ever did shoot, so I can shoot again after 72 hours. I even combined this thought with a "random shot at the start of the game" which doesn't lose me (assuming I'm the SK) anything at all. There are even more tricks and plans up my sleeve that I'm not going to share (not only because the SK may actually benefit from them, but ALSO because I hope to draw SK the next time this setup is run).

[Morning Tweet]

I'm not sure how that translates to "If other people have the idea to wagon quickly, they must be SK or mafia"

obviously, SK wants to identify players and sort them. Everyone kind of needs to do that though

[Almost50]

Mafia can shoot as much as they want as long as they don't get it wrong, no? You had it semi right the first time

No. They actually can shoot a max of NINE times. If they are ALWAYS wrong they can shoot up to five times. If they're ALWAYS right they can ALSO shoot a max of 5 times. The 9 shots cap comes from the extreme case of 4 wrong shots and 5 correct ones (or 4 correct shots + 5 wrong ones). There are only 5 masons, 5 scums and scum can only "correctly" shoot a mason. Now this IS the core of my argument about Enchant's slip. "Without consequence" (or however he put it) only applies to the Serial Killer. (There is indeed the consequence of a 72 hours "cooling down" period, but that's a minor thing compared to flipping and being moved to the dead thread).

Anyway, I'll stop arguing about this matter, but not before I mention that Enchant "coming clean" and admitting he knew the setup and has even played it before proves my point about him having been faking. His first post was a FAKE LAMIST one indeed. I dunno about the second now (I can -maybe- see him believing that flashwagons are good as a townie) but I can't let go of my initial negative impression, especially since he himself has confirmed it to be justified and spot on.

[Almost50]

obviously, SK wants to identify players and sort them. Everyone kind of needs to do that though

SK is the one that least needs info at all. They don't die to Scum shots. They don't die if they misfire. All they need to do is stay out of the loop (erm.. avoid being yeeted I mean). That's why I wanted to be the SK. I precisely said to Pooky that I wanted that role because Scum can't kill me, so it's a major boost for the role.

Sk doesn't care who dies or how they die as long as it's not them.

[Enchant]

Mafia actually can kill SK.

For this deadline should be out. Mafia then can choose SK to die.

[Morning Tweet]

I mean... yeah, of course they will stop shooting if they have killed every mason. feel like we're arguing semantics over that one

Enchant saying they knew all along that mafia could only shoot once when they originally said mafia has nothing to lose shooting randomly -- And they have played the setup before and in reality, mafia CAN shoot multiple times is.. odd. I can agree with you that them admitting they knew all along how the setup works is weird when they actually do have the setup wrong

However, Enchant does have the right idea that if you kill off mafia before they get a chance to draw their gun, that's good, because mafia can pull out their gun and start rapid-firing if they feel they're about to die.

Like... Enchant played the previous setup where mafia can shoot once. Let's assume he has the impression each mafia can shoot one time:

This game is actually about FLASHWAGONS, if you don't perform FLASHWAGON, mafia will simple draw gun and shot on random without anything to lose. So basically, we need FLASHWAGON.

Issue is, 9 votes is heck many for FLESHWAGON, so if you see big wagon, FLESH it.

Oh, you know now I think they're saying "Mafia will draw gun and shoot a random person" -- not "Mafia will draw gun and start shooting people randomly"

might be a language thing

You misunderstanded.

I meant, if mafia believe they are gonna be elimmed, they simple draw gun and shot. We need FLASHWAGON them before they do that.
... No, really, if someone have 5+ (oh well with SK maybe 6+) votes, Mason/Mafia certanly vote them and it makes sense to FLASHWAGON this person, because...
Would't mason vote their own, right?... Right?

this also seems to suggest shooting once

IF YOU GONNA VOTE SLOW, COLLECTING DAMN 9 VOTES, MAFIA COULD SHOT 9000 TIMES ALREADY AND EAT BREAKFEST AS WELL.

I find it plausible that Enchant is referring to how mafia has all the time in the world to shoot 5 times (as they elaborated on later)

Now A50 your argument for Enchant's slip is that they said mafia will shoot "without anything to lose" yeah? But in that post, Enchant is saying mafia that is going down to a wagon can simply draw gun and shoot someone with nothing to lose. So what's the problem?

[Morning Tweet]

Mafia actually can kill SK.

For this deadline should be out. Mafia then can choose SK to die.

When did you figure that out? i hadn't even thought of that

[Morning Tweet]

obviously, SK wants to identify players and sort them. Everyone kind of needs to do that though

SK is the one that least needs info at all. They don't die to Scum shots. They don't die if they misfire. All they need to do is stay out of the loop (erm.. avoid being yeeted I mean). That's why I wanted to be the SK. I precisely said to Pooky that I wanted that role because Scum can't kill me, so it's a major boost for the role.

Sk doesn't care who dies or how they die as long as it's not them.

SK only wins if they figure out who the masons and mafia are quickly enough. Obviously if they get stuck with one large group, they'll lose since there's nothing they could do to avoid being yeeted at that point. they still gotta be cognizant of the game

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Official Vote Count

Almost50

(3): Gamma Emerald, ArcAngel9, Aaron

Not_Mafia

(2): ssbm_Kyouko, Not_Mafia

DrippingGoofball

(2): Save The Dragons, Morning Tweet

Cephrir

(2): Ydrasse, Dwlee99

Enchant

(2): DrippingGoofball, Almost50

Dwlee99

(2): Thor Ragnarok, Pavowski

Morning Tweet

(1): Galron

Aaron

(1): Cephrir

Not Voting

(1): Enchant

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to eliminate

Deadline

: (expired on 2021-09-18 10:00:00)

[Morning Tweet]

friends, i implore you to consider consolidating on DGB or Cephrir

[Enchant]

VOTE: DrippingGoofBall











Changed for VCounter
-Pooky

[Enchant]

Mafia actually can kill SK.

For this deadline should be out. Mafia then can choose SK to die.

When did you figure that out? i hadn't even thought of that

From start? If mod say "Mafia can choose anyone to die", it could be also be SK.

[Gamma Emerald]

THE FLESHWAGON DEMANDS FLESH

ITS HUNGER IS UNCEASING

MEAAAAAAAAT

[Gamma Emerald]

I think enchant is town for misunderstanding the setup. Discuss.

I don’t get the misunderstanding but yeh Enchant seems Town

[Gamma Emerald]

I think enchant is town for misunderstanding the setup. Discuss.

I did address this. If genuine he is the SK. If faking he is Scum. Flashwagoning is such a bad idea it can't come from a town mindset in this setup.

Eh thinking about it I actually get your point
People aren’t gonna be inclined to flashwagon their own kind
It’s essentially like how with randomly eliminating you technically end up with worse than random odds of hitting scum because they’re not inclined to bus.

[Gamma Emerald]

IF YOU GONNA VOTE SLOW, COLLECTING DAMN 9 VOTES, MAFIA COULD SHOT 9000 TIMES ALREADY AND EAT BREAKFEST AS WELL.

Okay this is a more rational premise, basically don’t let people languish as soon-to-be dead otherwise if they’re scum they have a greater chance to get their shot off

[Gamma Emerald]

IF YOU GONNA VOTE SLOW, COLLECTING DAMN 9 VOTES, MAFIA COULD SHOT 9000 TIMES ALREADY AND EAT BREAKFEST AS WELL.

Mafia.. can .. NOT.. shoot.. 9000 times. They can shoot ONCE. If they are NOT targeting a Mason THEY die. If that happens we know who was voting the Mafioso and lead them to act in despair. That's not bad. We do get the flip either way.

Have you not heard of rhetoric?
Yeah I’m gonna townbin Enchant for sure here.

[Almost50]

@MT: I didn't play "this" setup before, but I played something similar (Masons and Scum or something like that). SK can still win against Masons/Scum if they're fast enough.

Shoot X => flip & Reset
Shoot Y => flip & reset
Shoot Z => flip & reset

For them to be yeeted there has to be enough players ONLINE to vote them out.

Hypothetically speaking, let's say I'm a SK and I have 4 Masons alive (and nobody else). I shoot one that is currently online before my wagon is hammered. Now there are 4 living players, and the threshold is 3. ALL 3 Masons alive should be online to even make it possible for me to get yeeted. If one is offline I'd just shoot the 2 online consequently within the next few minutes and win the game.

I also didn't know Mafia could kill SK. I actually interpreted it as a "choose someone to die and the same applies" (I dunno where I got that from) meaning if the target is not a Mason a Mafioso dies still. This misinterpretation actually puts a bit of a dent in my SK strategy so I might have to reevaluate. but it certainly isn't a priority to me right now.

[Gamma Emerald]

Alright, i am a bit calmed down.


I didn't townslip, i knew mafia could shot only 1 time and die if they quess wrong (I knew also about Daytalk and ammount of mafia, because... Uh. Everyone should know? You take tip.). 9000 is my exaggaration about how mafia could take their time if town will hesitate. I played same setup already and know how it played, damn.

If Mafia will always trade their life on Mason, or atleast confirm one of person as "NonMason" (which doesh't cost them anything, because person in question already in danger of elim), we all die.

okay what
WHO IS “WE”?

[Gamma Emerald]

I just had an infinitely stupid thought
I’m not sharing.

[Enchant]

We = Town obviously.

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t see how town all die in that scenario?

[Morning Tweet]

@MT: I didn't play "this" setup before, but I played something similar (Masons and Scum or something like that). SK can still win against Masons/Scum if they're fast enough.

Shoot X => flip & Reset
Shoot Y => flip & reset
Shoot Z => flip & reset

For them to be yeeted there has to be enough players ONLINE to vote them out.

Hypothetically speaking, let's say I'm a SK and I have 4 Masons alive (and nobody else). I shoot one that is currently online before my wagon is hammered. Now there are 4 living players, and the threshold is 3. ALL 3 Masons alive should be online to even make it possible for me to get yeeted. If one is offline I'd just shoot the 2 online consequently within the next few minutes and win the game.

I also didn't know Mafia could kill SK. I actually interpreted it as a "choose someone to die and the same applies" (I dunno where I got that from) meaning if the target is not a Mason a Mafioso dies still. This misinterpretation actually puts a bit of a dent in my SK strategy so I might have to reevaluate. but it certainly isn't a priority to me right now.

I see what you mean.

Still, if SK ever shoots incorrectly in a similar scenario where just 1 player is not part of that big group, they're fucked

for example if its 4 mason vs 1 maf vs 1 SK that's still bad for SK cuz their chances of being yeeted are huge. But if they get the mafia member wrong, they're screwed.

In any case I dont think it's helpful to hunt SK

[Cephrir]

Why are we in such a hurry to consolidate?