Mini Normal 2232 -ENDGAME

[Dwlee99]

im done now, it was only for 1 night.
I'm curious if people considered me having a role, if my hints were enough? tell me after the game....

i claimed because i thought the benefits to town of basically narrowing the field down from 6 to 5 is really helpful, and i wanted people to know i was targeted because that info is likely useful to.

He said it was one-shot already

[Dwlee99]

We really just had an IC, 1-shot bulletproof, and a named townie

[Dwlee99]

Gera do you have any opinions? I get wanting to just sheep but even when I've been in head empty sheep mode I've had some thoughts on the game

[Dwlee99]

I got sort of snowed by enchant recently so I don't think we should underestimate his scum game

[Dwlee99]

Do you have a reason I shouldn't be paranoid of you after white flag + king's new robes + you blatantly counterwagoning ythan?

[Dwlee99]

I don't think grandpa wagon happens if ythan does

[Dwlee99]

Skipping the Day right now is pointless, especially since we have a pretty solid yeet target right now. Skipping it Tomorrow to go from 4 to 3 might have some merit, but not right now.

@DGB, I think you said earlier this game that you're Townreading Dwlee, and that you Townread them often? Is there anything this game that they're not doing or doing differently or something?

I am still townreading Dwlee and Enchant, just not as much as the rest. It's simply PoE here.

It's hard to make a case against players you judge to be less townie than the others.

I would expect that Dwlee99 would be much more capable of snowing me over than Enchant. But who knows?

I am concerned that we are yeeting Enchant because he is easier to yeet than Dwlee99.

I feel like you didn't really react to my town case

[Dwlee99]

And as I just realized cause Enchant questioned why he would let ythan die day 4 but not day 3, ythan dying day 3 means grandpa wagon doesn't go through ever. And if grandpa isn't getting mislimmed because of ythan's flip and I'm scum who am I going to push then?

[Dwlee99]

Did you look at DGB interactions towards ythan?

[Dwlee99]

The longer the wait for Ythan, the greater the probability of "scum that's given up."

VOTE: GrandpaMo

Timestamps on this aren't good

I didn't read everything in depth but I actually expect if it's DGB that DGB would have a kind of grandiose interaction with ythan based on dead silence III that just ended. In my skimming I didn't find anything though so I'm pretty sure it's just enchant

[Dwlee99]

DGB and Thor had an elaborate SvS interaction at one point. I'll find it in a bit.

I agree on Enchant. In would you like to be my hydra I felt like he was trying to do something and made the first move to vote scum in ELO whereas here he feels less proactive than there (and definitely less proactive than dead silence 3)

[Dwlee99]

Is there something that made you stop thinking it was Nathan?

[Dwlee99]

The best piece of evidence I can give is that I never treat my scum partner like this, and DGB never reacts like this if we're partners

I don't think I've ever interacted with a scum partner like this ever. It's very unnecessary for DGB and I as scum to both hard push each other in this manner when the most vital thing at that stage would be looking for masons and getting info from wagons on potential masons or VTs

Also, the reason why DGB's reaction is so bad is because they're either (1) trying to counterwagon someone since they were the main wagon
or (2) actually genuinely confused about the setup and thinks what I did was me as scum scumclaiming
(1) can't be the case because they're not gonna try to counterwagon a scum buddy,
and (2) can't be the case because scum have a PT and DGB would never be confused about what I did in the first place, since there would be communication

VOTE: DrippingGoofball

Weird that they insist on not posting in the mason PT, despite my several questions towards them. Also didn't like their vote on Enchant.

VOTE: DrippingGoofball

Weird that they insist on not posting in the mason PT, despite my several questions towards them. Also didn't like their vote on Enchant.

What the hell is that????

You are not my mason.

VOTE: Thor

100% Thor is scum, I am not moving my vote.

VOTE: DrippingGoofball

Weird that they insist on not posting in the mason PT, despite my several questions towards them. Also didn't like their vote on Enchant.

thor's motives are beyond mortal understanding

HE IS NOT MY MASON AND HE NEEDS TO DIE

VOTE: DrippingGoofball

Weird that they insist on not posting in the mason PT, despite my several questions towards them. Also didn't like their vote on Enchant.

thor's motives are beyond mortal understanding

Show me the coords

i hope this clears things up

Why didn't you just post these before...

I'll send Dwlee and DGB pms to see if we can work something out

JUMP OFF A SPEEDBUMP, SCUM

Show me the coords

i hope this clears things up

Why didn't you just post these before...

I'll send Dwlee and DGB pms to see if we can work something out

DIE SCUM DIE

What a ridiculous overreaction, please tell me people don't believe that

VOTE: DrippingGoofBall







edited for VC
-Pooky

DGB has the capacity to recognise humour, they're not dumb as bricks, so they must be scum

Actually unbelievable you think DGB's reaction is real there

They don't know if I'm or anyone I talk to is actually a mason or not though, I'm obfuscating and making it harder for them to determine that

DGB's reaction is illogical on so many levels that I'm actually astounded others don't see it the same way

There's "randomly claiming mason" and "randomly claiming mason with a player being wagoned while spouting off that THAT PLAYER ISN'T RESPONDING ON THE MASON PT."

For DGB to fail to recognise the WIFOM/joke of my statement, they would need to think I am scum genuinely claiming I'm a mason with them, and hoping this is a good play for me and that they'd go along with it.

They're calling me scum because they think me claiming mason with them is an actual viable strategy for me to make as scum. There is no way they actually believe that.

Where did Thor claim mason with everyone and it's a joke I missed?

I have never played with Thor before, the shading and the VOTE smelled of scum gambit.

Please explain what the "gambit" is there, what's my goal?

Please explain what the "gambit" is there, what's my goal?

You tell me it's your dumb gambit

Yes I did miss 191. It sounds more like a scum PT joke.

Never mind then I guess I misinterpreted.

DGB can't come up with a reason for what the "gambit" is, if they can't think of a reason why scum would do it over it simply being WIFOM/a joke, their thought process just isn't genuine. They're scum who latched onto the first thing they could given they're getting heavily wagoned

Pedit: hmm

Here is the SvS interaction between DGB and Thor. I'm noticing now that DGB did the die scum die thing which I feel like might be emulating town meta. In this game I questioned DGB on not having the same fire as LN 233 and it responded with the die scum die thing on ythan like it did to me in LN 233 and like it did to Thor in dead silence.

[Dwlee99]

In 233 we were both town to be clear

[Dwlee99]

Oh people should claim unless it's a role that can confirm itself

Unless there's something else in the game I don't see how the setup could be IC + named townie vs N1 strongman + ?? and be balanced.

[Dwlee99]

White flag is 47.8% chance of winning random elims and town only need to hit two of three. Hitting two of two with only an IC and backup watcher is much harder than white flag so I don't think it would pass balance review

[Dwlee99]

Why are you still ignoring what I'm posting

[Dwlee99]

Did you think we were in ELO lmao

[Dwlee99]

DGB is 90% town unless it is tricking me with the dumb tells again so enchant wins

[Dwlee99]

Enchant do you think it is Nathan, Kazyan, or DGB? It feels like you're kind of just saying it is anyone but yourself to try to avoid being killed but you don't actually believe who you're pushing and you didn't say why you stopped thinking it was Nathan earlier and instead started thinking it was Kazyan.

[Dwlee99]

What did you see in Nathan's interactions/votes for ythan that you don't see in Kazyan or DGB's?

[Dwlee99]

Didn't DGB not vote until it was clear we weren't in ELO?

I'll look for that post from Kazyan

[Dwlee99]

I laugh outright at the notion that explaining reasons for a scumread is pointless in a game of Mafia, from a person with a 2009 join date. Enchant, are you seeing this?

Like, I currently have literally zero idea why you're voting Kazyan. And maybe that's on me. Maybe. But you could help me out and try to actually convince me on why they're Scum?

Like, I currently have literally zero idea why you're voting Kazyan. And maybe that's on me. Maybe. But you could help me out and try to actually convince me on why they're Scum?

Bah not making my posts twice literally use the damn iso function.

Nah*

I laugh outright at the notion that explaining reasons for a scumread is pointless in a game of Mafia, from a person with a 2009 join date. Enchant, are you seeing this?

Insipid garbage shade from scum.

Damn right it's shading. Your scumgame sucks.

(Actually you survived this long so it doesn't suck, but still)

I mean this could be theater but is there a specific reason you think it IS theater or do you just think it could be beyond the are you seeing this line?

[Dwlee99]

Ythan seems conciliatory towards Nathan in this sequence so I don't think they'd be partnered

[Dwlee99]

Or maybe not conciliatory. More like not reacting with OMGUS but kind of an assumption of being town? With Kazyan, Ythan attacks but Nathan he treats as though the request is in good faith even though they're pretty much asking for the same thing

[Dwlee99]

DIE SCUM DIE

VOTE: Ythan

VOTE: Ythan
There we go
E-1

UNVOTE:

I want hear Ythan first idk.

I dislike how GrandpaMo active on site, but not here.

... Well i am too not very active, but still.

VOTE: GrandPa

This is the same thing you accused Nathan of but arguably worse

[Dwlee99]

What changed between 1610 and 1614? Ythan hadn't posted anything but you said you wanted to hear from him

[Dwlee99]

Ythan do you have an idea for who you think Kazyan's partner could be?

Not based on associatives I just have two next best guesses in Enchant and Gera.

Something something rule of 3

[Dwlee99]

If scum this is game throwing if town what are you doing rn

[Dwlee99]

I mean I understand not wanting to be the losing mislim but I was not done looking at things and I don't think anyone was

[Dwlee99]

There's no reason to not skip anyway

[Dwlee99]

FFS fine, we'll skip.

This game is taking up too much of my headspace. I had a dream about this game last night that told me it was Dwlee.

One time I dreamt my IRL friend was mafia in a game

[Dwlee99]

What did you mean to quote? Kazyan?

[Dwlee99]

For me to be scum would mean we have an IC and 1-shot BP and nothing else against a strongman + ?? AND that I bussed ythan day 3 while there was a counterwagon on a player I had plausible reason to think was scum

[Dwlee99]

Neither has Kazyan but given no one has claimed results it's not an outlandish assumption

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: No elim

[Dwlee99]

That is hammer. See y'all in another long time

[Dwlee99]

You may vote for No Elimination. A No Elimination needs 50% of all possible votes.

[Dwlee99]

I think it varies by mod.

[Dwlee99]

Can scum no kill forever?

[Dwlee99]

Is there a reason to not no lim again and see what happens?

[Dwlee99]

If gera is town and completely bulletproof (which is what it sounds like?) then scum will be forced to shoot elsewhere. Sharing more info might be bad

[Dwlee99]

No lim with little discussion

[Dwlee99]

Maybe we could clarify with the mod if happily ever after would apply but that's the only thing we need to consider before no limming

[Dwlee99]

Soo no lim?

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: No Lim

[Dwlee99]

Okay I'm alive so now I can say I actually have Kazyan paranoia

[Dwlee99]

The opposition to no lim reminds me of mini 2223 where the final scum did similar. I will say that I think the simplest answer is just DGB given Kazyan's posting tells me he is town but it would be helpful if y'all towncased yourselves.

[Dwlee99]

Why would I ever vote gera over DGB? This game makes no sense having only an IC + named townie, and I wouldn't buy that gera decided to no-kill gambit there. DGB win-con would be to have me be paranoid of you or to shoot me hoping that gera is still paranoid of you. That you're voting me specifically after I said I was paranoid of you makes me think I was right to be but I guess I'll wait until DGB shows up to see if I just get hammered here or if you decide to unvote.

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: Kazyan
I'm gonna be busy for the next two hours holding office hours but I'll be back after that

[Dwlee99]

Okay, I'm here and will be around on mobile throughout the day during class. If you have any questions just go for it

[Dwlee99]

Towncase on myself is that I'm the reason Ythan is dead, pointed out that Andres was probably dead for scumreading ythan, and E-1'd Ythan on D3. I wasn't part of the Titus fiasco that happened Day 2. I also don't think the night kills would make sense if I was scum here

[Dwlee99]

Confirmed Town

:
Jolyne (duh)

Townread

:
ssbm_Kyouko (actual attempts to solve the game without trying to cover her butt. Town wants to be right; this is what Kyo is doing)

Townlean

:
Nixie (trying to guide the conversation somewhere useful instead of letting a not-very-talkative town waste their time)
Nathann (gut read--his actions aren't obviously town, but I get a vibe)
geraintm (I think this guy is just a goober, not flailing scum.)

Null

:
Ythan (Coming out with a scumread does seem Ythan!town-y. Could also be trying to Rush Posting as scum, since that's what we all learned from NQN)

"Pls post" Pile

:
Andresvmb
DGB
MargotRose

Scumlean

:
Alice (stilted, fake-seeming communication style)
GrandpaMo (gut read; don't take this too seriously because I'm garbage at scumhunting)

Scumread

:
Dwlee99 (There's a lot of gags and a few opinions in Dwlee's ISO, but zero solvy energy, despite apparently having a strong townread. Picking on Ythan feels opportunistic.)

Also here is Kazyan attacking me for "picking" on ythan

[Dwlee99]

On the night kill point: I'm pretty sure every person who got killed townread me which perfectly sets up kazyan to have me as the final mislim

[Dwlee99]

I also feel like Kazyan as scum looks like an Ythan partner from his scumchart post at daystart

[Dwlee99]

The bottom of my pyramid is {GMo, Ythan} currently. I am going to stop being so paranoid and perhaps trust that Nathann is Town, and I don’t want to execute DGB.

I’ll stick to {Enchant, DW} as Town. I was skeptical of DW but I need to trust that Koba can read there better than I can. Kazyan is the wild card for me.

[Dwlee99]

Well it's not good for town but "voted out town" isn't a scum tell unless it's paired with something like opportunism. Don't think Kazyan's votes have seemed opportunistic though

i strongly beg to differ.#

this is about the part of the game where i start getting really, really strong opinions and it will be almost impossible to get me to shift from them, just to warn everyone.

sorry - i misread some of your post, am an idiot.

i dont know who else is scum. i think you are the most likely person to be scum through voting and explanations of those votes. i am more than happy to worry about that later.

Kazyan not getting puahed over the edge now when they could so easily be is telling to me

This was the day we limmed ythan and then gera got shot

[Dwlee99]

I'm just saying, try to turn this into a 1v1. I haven't been in one in a hot minute, I'm down.

Anyway, not sure what we're even doing here. Other than associates and geraintm just being Townie in general, I don't think the nokill into Bulletproof claim is something he does as Scum. (pedit: and admitting it was 1-shot. Town.) Dwlee and Kazyan are Townie, and I believe both have pretty Townie associates with fliped Scum. (Though I will recheck the Kazyan vote from Ythan.) That leaves Enchant and DBG. Yeet in those two, get a free toaster, etc.

Nathan thought it was DGB/Enchant, says that he thinks me and Kaz both have good associatives with the flipped scum but that he wants to look over the Kaz vote from ythan

[Dwlee99]

I'm between Kazyan, AliceK/DGB, Titus, in that order today. Kazyan already has 4 not counting Alice, assuming she will vote him we need 2 more. Dwlee and Nathann dont want to vote Kazyan I think.

Jolyene wants an Alice wagon but hasn't moved votes yet. I would also go here. Nathann said also he'd probably doublevote Jolyene.

Between DGB and Alice I'm fine voting DGB out as I am getting the feeling it is playing exactly the same way around deadline as it just did in a game where I caught scum!DGB. It's possible it is doing that to make me think tstbs and if it wants to go, and already has geraintm who seems unlikely to move to alice or kazyan voting for it, it's a bit of an easier lim to get through without no limming. I will be around until about an hour before deadline when work ends, then I'm going to dinner with my family.

I'll vote any of those 4, whichever seems most likely by 5pm Central (deadline is 6pm). I'll compromise on Ythan. Wont vote anyone else toDay (should only be relevant if Dwlee gets a wagon).

Kyo wouldn't vote me even as compromise

[Dwlee99]

Andres posts that say I'm town are already there

[Dwlee99]

There isn't a chance I'm voting Kazyan.

And here is why you're still alive

[Dwlee99]

Gera didn't really say anything about me other than he was refusing to vote me

[Dwlee99]

Nathan townread me (see above)

[Dwlee99]

Morning friends.

VOTE: Kazyan

I have regrets.

Morning friends.

VOTE: Kazyan

Are you two allergic to discussing your reads in any sort of depth?

I've been discussing Kazyan all game. If you have a question ask it.

I've been discussing Kazyan all game. If you have a question ask it.

Quit squawking.

And before you say it "why do you think he's scum" is a stupid meaningless followup question.

Like, I currently have literally zero idea why you're voting Kazyan. And maybe that's on me. Maybe. But you could help me out and try to actually convince me on why they're Scum?

Bah not making my posts twice literally use the damn iso function.

I laugh outright at the notion that explaining reasons for a scumread is pointless in a game of Mafia, from a person with a 2009 join date. Enchant, are you seeing this?

Insipid garbage shade from scum.

Ythan put less than zero energy into actually trying to have Kazyan be eliminated. It's like he just laid over and died for him

[Dwlee99]

Them* fuck sorry

[Dwlee99]

Kazyan's argument here is just trying to not say anything bad to hope you don't change your mind because they know they can't argue there is a world where I make these night kills or ram my buddy through when I could have easily "compromised" on gera's list where me and ythan were the only ones he wasn't willing to vote

[Dwlee99]

Math did the same thing you're doing now in 2223 and it didn't work there

[Dwlee99]

To think I'm scum means you believe I would kill everyone who townreads me to end up in f3 with two people that suspect me, instead of just not doing that. Gera had everyone but me in lim pool. Andres didn't want to lim me. Nathan didn't want to lim me. Kyo didn't want to lim me. Each of those people did want to lim Kazyan and at times even specifically suspected Kazyan and Ythan were partnered.

The chainsaw in [post]149[/post is all you need to know that Kazyan is partnered with ythan here and I'm kicking myself I only noticed it now.

[Dwlee99]

149

[Dwlee99]

Kazyan you did a good job but I think you should have night killed me because I'm on an ELO hot streak right now. That or maybe try to convince me it's DGB, but once I expressed paranoia of you I kind of forced your hand (otherwise you probably would have just ended up like MathBlade in 2223 who thought he had me pocketed but did not.)

[Dwlee99]

Cause I feel like procrastinating homework, there's also this sequence

Spoiler:

Where is the die scum die DGB I know

DIE SCUM DIE

VOTE: Ythan

VOTE: Ythan
There we go
E-1

Vote Count 3.5

Not Voting(3)geraintm;Ythan;Enchant;

Ythan

JacksonVirgo

(3)Nathann;DrippingGoofball;Dwlee99;

DrippingGoofball (2)Kazyan;GrandpaMo;

GrandpaMo (1)Andresvmb;

Kazyan (0)

Dwlee99 (0)

Enchant

MargotRosa

(0)

Andresvmb (0)

geraintm (0)

No Elimination (0)

Nathann (0)

With 9 alive it is 5 to execute.

Day 2 will end in (expired on 2021-09-08 04:33:00) or when an elimination has been achieved.

Vote Count 3.9

GrandpaMo (4)Andresvmb;Enchant;Ythan;DrippingGoofball;

DrippingGoofball (2)Kazyan;GrandpaMo;

Ythan

JacksonVirgo

(1)Dwlee99;

Not Voting(1)Nathann;

Nathann (1)geraintm;

Kazyan (0)

Dwlee99 (0)

Enchant

MargotRosa

(0)

Andresvmb (0)

geraintm (0)

No Elimination (0)

With 9 alive it is 5 to execute.

Day 2 will end in (expired on 2021-09-08 04:33:00) or when an elimination has been achieved.

Speaking of Ythan, I'm not... impressed with his content since returning. The only actual stance I see is the GrandpaMo vote, almost everything else can be interpreted one way or another on how he's reading other people, in my opinion. Like, I can't tell if he Scumreads geraintm or just disagrees with him.

But GrandpaMo is equally being... Scummy right now, so what do I know.

I also find the content lacking driving reasons. Maybe I'm just bad at reading but why do you think grandpa is scum? @ythan

Vote Count 3.10

GrandpaMo (4)Andresvmb;Enchant;Ythan;DrippingGoofball;

Ythan

JacksonVirgo

(2)Dwlee99;GrandpaMo;

DrippingGoofball (1)Kazyan;

Not Voting(1)Nathann;

Nathann (1)geraintm;

Kazyan (0)

Dwlee99 (0)

Enchant

MargotRosa

(0)

Andresvmb (0)

geraintm (0)

No Elimination (0)

With 9 alive it is 5 to execute.

Day 2 will end in (expired on 2021-09-08 04:33:00) or when an elimination has been achieved.

VOTE: GrandpaMo

Bottom text

[Dwlee99]

DGB did you read 2223 after you got limmed?

[Dwlee99]

Ig I should make my point to save time: in that ELO, Kyo overwhelmed with posts for why it had to be Math. I said to Math that Kyo was doing a good job of town telling and Math's response was just that that was what Kyo was good at and imo didn't put a lot of effort into showing why it had to be her. Kazyan is doing the same thing to the extreme with AtE for how I am "untraceable" as scum, etc. because there isn't an actual argument that could be made for me to be scum here

[Dwlee99]

I hope that's a reaction test cause jfc

[Dwlee99]

I could kill you for the exact same reasons you're saying you would have killed me except that you had DGB saying it was me and me saying it was DGB. Gera scumread you and showed zero indication of being willing to vote me

[Dwlee99]

I have known you scumread me. You've scumread me the entire game. Why would I leave you alive over anyone who townread me?? Literally everyone that has townread me has died

[Dwlee99]

You act like you were being subtle setting up your pivot to me but it wasn't which is part of why I was paranoid of you coming into this day phase. Then when I expressed that you voted me

[Dwlee99]

I can repost the same stuff but it doesn't matter if DGB wants to throw here instead of voting the obvious choice. Kazyan chainsawed for ythan. Every person that died said it was Kazyan. Now we are in final 3 with some of the only people in the game that have scumread me and I'll probably have my first mislim since May against someone that killed everyone scumreading them after softing a PR to avoid being eliminated day one

[Dwlee99]

VC looking guess Kaz and one of Dwlee Ythan

Note to self to listen to Titus more

[Dwlee99]

I like that we have things to talk about already besides the IC, though I'm still kinda in the phase where I only know anything about Jolyne's role and my role. So, I'm going to watch and reread for a while in order to differentiate people in my mind.

You found a real crumb this time

Kazyan did you mean to soft watcher there?

I'm not gonna claim my role yet, but it's not Watcher. My use of the word "watch" was a coincidence.

[Dwlee99]

Thank god

[Dwlee99]

I'm getting calzones now, I'm so happy

[Dwlee99]

Thank god you voted Kazyan!

[Dwlee99]

I'm not religious but I do celebrate with calzones

[Dwlee99]

I like to get what's essentially a cheesesteak in a calzones. A little unconventional but American + Mozzarella + steak + extra meat

And I'm getting two cause I don't eat enough normally I don't think

[Dwlee99]

This setup was so weird

AND NO DAY TALK

[Dwlee99]

Kazyan I'm a little confused why you don't think you'd kill Gera there. I'd kill Gera as any of y'all

[Dwlee99]

Thanks for modding!

[Dwlee99]

Koba I was so panicked when you unlock towned me

[Dwlee99]

if i was still alive yall were def screwed cuz my dead pt reads were actually good LOL

I need to see the dead PT!

Well that was a thing. At least I was close. My PoE had two scum in it. Of course I had one town and the scum not being partners but I think if given time I would have fixed it.

Your wagon being all town was very very bad for town

[Dwlee99]

jfc how did you pull all of this off. That's diabolical. I know you can't answer until post-game but just please keep this question in mind after DGB votes because I'm just really impressed

Was Ythan a designated fall guy from the start, or what

Oh I should answer this now. No, actually, he wasn't. Ythan replaced in so we didn't even have a chance to talk until night 1. There was conversation in there from JacksonVirgo and I that we should definitely not be bussing, so ythan knew that plan, but other than that there wasn't much info there. And we didn't really make any plan during the nights.

[Dwlee99]

Ah, gotcha. Yea, knowing he was only 2-shot made it not hard to just shoot there twice more.