Micro 1034 | Meet me on the Astral Plane | Game Over!

[Flea The Magician]

like i would've pushed facebones from the very beginning too knowing nothing about koba and mollie because 33% > 25% but i decided to poke around a bit first and FB hasn't towntold yet

My experience with bonsey is that they're a slow starter. Where's your bar at currently for townieness from them?

are you suggesting he is town?

so far it just seems like a few routine question prods and maybe a couple non interesting opinions, i just don't see any of that as AI. maybe even holistically slightly +scum because a nully/semilurky iso as a whole is kind of a scum characteristic but im willing to not go there yet

I'm wondering there the bar is for someone to towntell for you.
I strongly don't believe in lurking = scum as I've done it loads as town when unwell or just unable to focus.
That said, given the game state currently I am inclined to think that there is at least maybe two in the lurkers as it's an ideal scum game state at the moment, the apathy levels are bad for D1 and I can't see them wanting to upset that too much.

[HoldenGolden]

Doing spoilers again because I think they are neat!

(also I feel they look better)

Spoiler: Mollie related stuff

Ah I see about the BBcode. Sorry I acted that way. It just didn't come off as a joke due to the post's surrounding it if that makes sense. Serious posts like that always rub me wrong.

Why did you have them as town (W&J) in the first place?

My apologizes as I fucked up. They shifted down comment was referring to an earlier version of that post I had talked why i shifted from TvS to Tvt over the span of like 200 posts before remembering it was suppose to be in isolation and rewrote cutting it out and trying to be less verbose. Result ending up as you saw.

I think if time permits I am going to ISO them. Namely I want to compare what they say they want versus what they actually do (Woah, mindblowing analysis) as I have hard times remembering the timeline of their posts. For some reason, my mind thinks they have contradicted themselves.

I think IV is town. There was an opportunity that presented itself for IV to foment the rage W&J has towards me, but they opted not to and tried to actually sort things out. I am unsure on Facebones, they are a low content poster who is standing on the sidelines and feeding the fire.

In what ways are they feeding the fire?

Actually, I am just trying to have a conversation with Holden. I am trying to figure out how he thinks because he was weirdly silent when I made my case and I am wondering why. I don't even care if Holden addresses my points. We can talk about something else if he wants to.

If I am honest? Your two's conflict sparked my urge to defend town -- specifically the atmosphere. Contrary to what others used to think, I am not that good as town. The reason why I do so much better as scum as because I have perfect info and know how to feign scumhunting well. I have my moments, but tend to not be able to make them count. What I am good is trying to fuel town's atmosphere so the better scumhunters can well...hunt. Therefore when you two started up, my motherly instinct kicked in. I also recall not being swayed by it by virtue of it being koba.

Spoiler: IV

sure my 479 was devoid of any "solid reads" but again that's just how i play i was giving out my thoughts on every player at the time. im not sure why you think that's so scummy other than maybe wishiwashiness/general lack of a read being some sort of real scumtell for you.

Here let me detail my thought process in hopes you can understand it better.

People think that day 1 is a clusterfuck and in many ways it is, but it is equally clusterfuck on both sides. As much as town has little to go off of, scum lack any insurance of safety. They don't have any town cred out of the gate to fall back on, nor do they usually have a feeling for how certain players will react. Meta helps sure but only so much. Therefore, often I see scum suffer from extending too far to try and look towny. While it can take multiple forms, the most reliable type of scummy post I have seen is the D1 'readlist'. Rather then just listing AI points on some players and then doing a blanket statement for the rest, Scum tend to bloat out their post to take the form of a readlist. The issue being that since most of the reads are null (as they want to keep doors open to pressure), they have to write something NAI to accompany it to make it look like actual work. That or they do 'pseudo' reads which are just long wishywashy statements that say nothing. Because it looks like a readlist, they get more credit and are attributed to solving the game despite it not having much substance. I can quote some from age old games of mine that I remember if you want to see this.

Now let's take a look at 479 with this in mind:

may as well shell out some remaining opinions.

i skimmed facebones's iso and zero things stand out to me im sorry.

i think T3 is very slightly to be +town because he is actually producing content/asking questions with a plausible intention to understand the gamestate better and not being over the top with emotion which is what he did in a recent scum game. this is quite weak because again im still not too sure how to distinguish between town and scum him.

AliceK zero opinion. i played with town!AliceK once and did not post very much.

Flea zero opinion I don't think fae has really started playing yet.

no idea how to read andres because he's never actually been scum

I remember having an early TL on Holden but i think it's disappearing a little bit. one thing that pinged me slightly was going back to the early framing of mollie vs koba as SvS -> TvS because they can't actually be SvS seems consistent with an early attempt to sow more discord between them. Yes it's backed by what could be legitimate reasoning but it's consistent with a potential scum agenda all the same - i mean if you're going to frame something in a certain way you have to provide some semblance of reasoning

Of the 6 player's listed, 2 actually have any content to go with them. The rest bloats the read to look like more was put into it without saying anything of consequence. Everything said falls into public knowledge expect maybe the Alice one, yet it still doesn't really assert anything.

The irreducible representation of the post then becomes:

Fake quote:

Facebone is Null
t3 is slight town read (logic here)
Flea is Null
Andres is Null
AliceK is null
Holdengolden is slipping from tl (logic here)

See it now? You can even take it further and analyze how the structure of the post is such that the reads with actual content are near the top and bottom which has psychological implications. I tend not too as I find it a bit WIFOM, but that's a nutshell of why its scummy to me in a vacuum. In conjunction, the washyiness of the reads also plays into it but I spoke of that so.

Spoiler: Misc

these kinds of deranged conclusions dont come from a scum so really just like bin mollie as town and just ignore them from now.

they got 24 hours and only just barely decided to read outside of my slot and still keep trying to make reads based on how people read my slot.

its been well over 24 hours so im coming back swinging now.

I disagree with this sentiment.

Yeah its been tangential to your slot, but not in the sense that it has a dependency on it. For example, the concern of how I wasn't engaging on their case despite being active is more of an indivual point on me rather then off of you. Ditto for IV.

Hit me with a homerun: Give me the solve Seto Kobba otherwise its the shadow realm for you. MWHAHAHAHHAHA-cough

T3, going back a coupla hundred posts to

Not anymore. Koba’s point about how they are only high post count when town is true and even if that is untrue, that kind of observation often comes from town.

Then may I ask who are your suspects right now?

I think you said IV long ago but my reading comprehension is shut rn

I may pass out soo

Just IV. I think the other scum is in Alice/Flea and maybe Andres if I'm wrong.

Why did you view Flea otherwise possibly Andre as the second scum?
Is this still the case?

POE.
No.

Mollie
Wj
Holden
Facebones
Flea
IV/Andres
Alice

I'm assuming this means Flea is no longer a part of your POE then?
What changed your mind on faer slot?
Also, what was the thought process behind unvoting IV and placing it on Alice instead?
IV seems to be the only person you've had reasons for thinking is scummy besides "POE"

I mildly like this.

Reads right now are:

PM

WJ (Tvt logic), Flea (Flea >>> WJ in this bracket)

IV

Andres, T3

Facebones, Alice

Honestly im paranoid of any active scum player right now. Gamestate is getting better, but the lack of any real wagon suggests scum are fine where it are. I lean into thinking some of the lurkers are scum though. There was minimal disruption during the Koba vs PM conflict as well which supports it. I am not sure exactly if Alice is scum by this metric as they are gearing up to be the universal lim target, but I can't really say I don't see why. T3 has fallen off for me. I don't mind the small amount of posting. They don't carry the small energy though that felt townie at the start of day 1. Much like FootMuscle, I would like for them to push more.

Flea I haven't talked much about but tonally I like them. Faer's feelings about the game seem to mimic mine and I'd think it be a tad difficult for scum!Flea to pull it off.

PEDIT: Oh Flea made point too. Cool. Townie points. Vote though.

[HoldenGolden]

Oh shoot, we have 4 and a half days left.

Everyone vote someone even if it's just a hunch rn

VOTE: Facebone

Dear Holden,

Please don't be scum. It would crush my hopes and

dreams, and break my heart.

Yours truly,

Mollie

Dear Mollie,



Yours truly,
Holden

[HoldenGolden]

Spoiler:

(I like to think that's why I used get to last-elim so often. Scum didn't want to kill me for the jokes and town was too charmed to ever consider elim me )

[HoldenGolden]

Dipping for classes

[Flea The Magician]

Well, I am to make on more post to you, but this can be considered an out of game post. I am not kidding. I am not fighting with you no how matter hard you try.

Fine by me honestly, I won't be joining any further games with you present due to the manipulations and trauma dumping you've displayed here and I would expect you to not join any I am present in.

I don't think the term "trauma dumping" means what you think it means. It's a term that both Esurio and LLD have used in GD and that is good! They are both IRL therapists and educated in what the word means and know to apply it contextually. It seems like now though, it has become a popular buzzword used in games, by some people who have no education and are not trained therapists. This is problematic for the site as whole because it trivializes trauma itself, and a lot of people come to this site with undealt with trauma and the site needs to be a safe place where it isn't weaponized against them.

A little about my background for context: I am an Licensed Bodywork Therapist who specializes in sexual trauma recovery. Mostly what I do nowadays though, is Activism and Non-Profit Community Outreach Programs. My organization just got the Humanitarian Award this past year.

Anyhoo, consider this an OOG post with a reiteration that I am not going to fight with you.

You are now on the same level as the people who emotionally belittled and abused us as you have utilised both their tactics and their words. you stated you wish to disengage, we acknowledged and established a boundary, acknowledging this is unhealthy for both sides. You then persisted and overstepped the boundry. You have shot first, twice

Yes, reading back Trauma Dump was not the correct term, we apologise.

Your standing, job, training, and awards your company/service has received bears no relevance here only to inflate your own position and to establish superiority.

You persistently state that you will disengage, and consistently fail to do so. You persist in making everything about you. You continually say you do not wish to fight however this is the second time you have taken the initial shot.

Actions speak louder than words, Mollie...

-Faewylds

[innocentvillager]

Actions speak louder than words

did you also watch TTB recently

[innocentvillager]

holden maybe if you ran some large statistical analysis you would find the person who posts readlists on D1 scummy

i don’t know if that’s the case at all but it’s in your experience and how you feel, and who am I to dispute that without my own evidence

So in a vacuum I guess sure you could use that as a scumtell to whatever % scum equity increase you think that means for any readslist making player

I will say a couple things despite that tho

I think it is disingenuous to distill my thoughts on those players to my pure like “qualitative probability of them being scum/town” stance. sometimes I (and I bet lots of other p layers too) will just lay out thoughts on players kind of just as a canvas to get our thoughts. Yes it’s for other people to see but also for me to just lay out in posts for my own brain and own review. I don’t agree that all nulls should be treated the same, I think the addendums which lay out points in favor or against make the read more interesting that just pure null. It explains roughly why I arrived at the opinion I did/what things I thought about even if I didn’t decide to write paragraphs of detailed explanation

The other thing is I think readlists are good for me to kind of organize how I’m feeling about everyone at a particular time and documenting that for myself and others. Particularly after big moments or any sort of reset, but honestly it’s probably just more based on whenever I feel like it or not. I think that was around the time I was getting heavily pushed so I wanted to lay out my current stances on people.

Anyway you came up with your own scum narrative for why you think what I did was scummy so this is just me telling you my approach to this kind of thing so take that for what you will. Two sides of the same coin.

[Flea The Magician]

TTB? Honestly we don't watch much TV. It's something we have always been taught.

[Andresvmb]

Alright, I probably won’t have time to read really in detail but I’ve been reading most posts and have a vague sense of what’s going on. Unfortunately until I do a deep dive, I won’t be able to place a vote with confidence. I can’t say that I trust Wright and Justice in this game just yet, so I can’t sheep there either.

@Flea, you gave me some good vibes. I think you’re probably the only slot I wouldn’t vote. IV seemed okay actually, but that’s about it.

[pirate mollie]

Spoiler:

(I like to think that's why I used get to last-elim so often. Scum didn't want to kill me for the jokes and town was too charmed to ever consider elim me )

I believe it, I can't escape the feeling that is exactly what you are doing in this game, and I am like, "It's okay, I am okay with this..." [insert hypnotized eyes emoji]

against my better judgement.

The interesting thing about scum picks, is that they are the exact same as W&J's and seems suspiciously

safe

to me.

[Andresvmb]

649 - Yeah I just have to read every post before I can tell you what I feel. And you’re right that I’m not particularly good at reading you actually. But that’s mostly because I tend to give you the benefit of the doubt more often than not btw (I TR you too often is what I’ve found, but we work together well once we’ve overcome early uncertainties).

[Andresvmb]

@Koba I had early pings from Facebones. Frankly that’s all I have. I think Flea’s reaction to your fight with pirate mollie was highly Town indicative, and I have a general sense that IV is probably Town. That’s it though. Until I read the fight in detail, and really scrutinize Holden (who seems highly competent), I am hesitant to put a read out there.

[pirate mollie]

Spoiler:

(I like to think that's why I used get to last-elim so often. Scum didn't want to kill me for the jokes and town was too charmed to ever consider elim me )

I believe it, I can't escape the feeling that is exactly what you are doing in this game, and I am like, "It's okay, I am okay with this..." [insert hypnotized eyes emoji]

against my better judgement.

The interesting thing about scum picks, is that they are the exact same as W&J's and seems suspiciously

safe

to me.

*your scum picks

[pirate mollie]

Actions speak louder than words

did you also watch TTB recently

What is TTB?

[innocentvillager]

@Koba I had early pings from Facebones. Frankly that’s all I have. I think Flea’s reaction to your fight with pirate mollie was highly Town indicative, and I have a general sense that IV is probably Town. That’s it though. Until I read the fight in detail, and really scrutinize Holden (who seems highly competent), I am hesitant to put a read out there.

I like this take

[AliceK]

My case on WJ and HGwas around T3. T3 was strongly townreading WJ and I noticed that without any reason HG put him as a townread. I had a closer look at both of the isos when HG started questioning my read on WJ indicating that it is very weak and nai arguments were used.

I just checked HG iso and their posts make sense provided that WJ is their partner. Didn't look at WJ, beside first 5 pages. Maybe something has changed.

[Wright and Justice]

My case on WJ and HGwas around T3. T3 was strongly townreading WJ and I noticed that without any reason HG put him as a townread. I had a closer look at both of the isos when HG started questioning my read on WJ indicating that it is very weak and nai arguments were used.

I just checked HG iso and their posts make sense provided that WJ is their partner. Didn't look at WJ, beside first 5 pages. Maybe something has changed.

Can you give some examples of the posts you are saying "make sense" as partnered?

Also now that a game has finished that had both of us in it, (I was Jolyne), does knowing I was Jolyne in that game change your view on me here?
-Wright

[GeorgeBailey]

Votecount 1.8

AliceK(3)

~ Wright and Justice(248), T3(42), Flea The Magician(50)

Facebones(2)

~ innocentvillager(104), HoldenGolden(69)

Wright and Justice(1)

~ piratemollie(129)


Not Voting (3): Facebones(14), AliceK(7), Andresvmb(12)

With 9 alive it takes 5 to eliminate.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2021-12-05 18:49:25)

FLAVOR

"All of you start running back to school."

"Things get worse."

[AliceK]

My case on WJ and HGwas around T3. T3 was strongly townreading WJ and I noticed that without any reason HG put him as a townread. I had a closer look at both of the isos when HG started questioning my read on WJ indicating that it is very weak and nai arguments were used.

I just checked HG iso and their posts make sense provided that WJ is their partner. Didn't look at WJ, beside first 5 pages. Maybe something has changed.

Can you give some examples of the posts you are saying "make sense" as partnered?

Also now that a game has finished that had both of us in it, (I was Jolyne), does knowing I was Jolyne in that game change your view on me here?
-Wright

They mentioned T3!Town only once, then it dropped to null. It is basically the timing of their read. What happened?
1. You start talking about mech.
2. Because of that (or maybe something else) you pocketed T3.
3. HG starts to tr'ing T3.

[Andresvmb]

I think Wright and Justice can be partnered with HoldenGolden. I think they push the same agenda. I will elaborate on this later.

In particular this read on Holden is complete hogwash and meant to discredit the town fulcrum as well as leader ^

Holden is the towniest player by far this dayphase. I will not be taking criticism. There is overwhelming evidence if one even bothers looking in how Holden approaches the game.

So, I have been reading closely. Spent the last few hours just trying to absorb most of what’s been said. And I wanted to stop here. AliceK’s take that they felt you could be partnered with Holden matches an identical reaction I had reading through the game. And it has to do with how you both partnered rather seamlessly to sideline piratemollie.

You want to know what else I found interesting? Your pushes exactly solve for who the Friendly Neighbor is, provided you make the assumption that one of {GH, T3} is your Partner (which based on in-game interactions, seems entirely possible, though I’m going to agree with the majority of posters here that T3 seems like Town).

[T3]

My reads are entirely unchanged.

[Andresvmb]

IV is pushed to the brink, reveals who their Neighbor is, and then all of a sudden you back away (despite the detailed, rather compelling case from GH I might add that you never up to that point actually went back over, and after you confidently declare them Scum based on meta and their self-sabotage) to push on a slot that could clearly reveal who the last Neighbor potentially is (and since you’ve already revealed who your Neighbor is in piratemollie, there’s really not that many choices left).

[Andresvmb]

Now I’m going to go finish reading, so maybe I’ll change my mind. And yeah, I can’t say that I think Holden is Scummy individually actually. They have a straightforward way of looking at the game and again, seem mighty competent. But it’s miraculous that IV got so close to the brink, revealed who their Neighbor was, and all of a sudden the votes there disappear as does the case. I need to read through the progression obviously, but I’m intrigued. This game is a very interesting read actually. I have a feeling the Scum Team is playing at a high level.

[Andresvmb]

i actually don't love that koba backed off me so quickly it's weird and almost pockety that they were lockscum on me and suddenly are voting someone else.

They thought you were the Friendly Neighbor. But then doubled down and got on an IV/Mollie scumteam trajectory and then you claimed, and then they backed off. They were trying to link you to Alice before you claimed a hood with Facebones.

They are looking for the FN. Not scum.

Which has been my point for a while now.

I mean I am coming to the same conclusion. It’s actually somewhat blatant.