Micro 1034 | Meet me on the Astral Plane | Game Over!

[Andresvmb]

I was hesitant to push on IV earlier because I thought they were FN for a while - mollie knows this. If I was scum who had an agenda of just outting the FN I just skip that step and push them or just let the townies push them when theyre already getting pushed.

Like this makes no sense. You thought they were FN, so you held on pushing them, but then why didn’t you question Holden’s case more aggressively? It came quite early, so you should have pushed back on it somewhat if your belief that IV was FN was genuine. But… you didn’t. You quoted it multiple times as legitimate in fact.

[Andresvmb]

I've been communicating with him, albeit rather cautiously. It's not like I've been flat out ignoring him or anything. The opening few posts of the hood was a straight up scumfession from IV who had been allegedly suffering from a guilty conscience and it made me mad paranoid. I felt like I had to pick my words carefully/not get into detail because it might make it's way into the maf PT which would only aid their cause

Huh. Fascinating.

[Andresvmb]

Mollie
Wj
Holden
Facebones
Flea
IV/Andres
Alice

I can see where this is coming from.

Btw if AliceK flips Scum, execute IV without prejudice.

[pirate mollie]

i actually don't love that koba backed off me so quickly it's weird and almost pockety that they were lockscum on me and suddenly are voting someone else.

They thought you were the Friendly Neighbor. But then doubled down and got on an IV/Mollie scumteam trajectory and then you claimed, and then they backed off. They were trying to link you to Alice before you claimed a hood with Facebones.

They are looking for the FN. Not scum.

Which has been my point for a while now.

I mean I am coming to the same conclusion. It’s actually somewhat blatant.

[pirate mollie]

Mollie
Wj
Holden
Facebones
Flea
IV/Andres
Alice

I can see where this is coming from.

Btw if AliceK flips Scum, execute IV without prejudice.

Why IV?

[Andresvmb]

Andres - I understand being sparse in content is NAI for you ,particularly now. However - we have little time left now. Please at least force out a perspective by now. I think you should try to read in the slots that aren't Me(because you have uh yeah been inaccurate with me)/Holden/Mollie, and I wanna know how you feel about players like Flea/T3/Alice/Facebones

I might be overthinking things frankly, but I need to let my thoughts settle for a day and I’ll come back to it tomorrow.

In summary, I read through Holden’s case against IV and I thought it was well thought out, reasonable, compelling. I can see why one would immediately TR it. Hell, I did. Which is why I understand why you keep asking piratemollie about their opinion of the slot - it’s the strongest TR you have, and so you want to see how other players read there for I’m going to guess a simple reason - to figure out whether they are looking at the game similar to how you are (which might help sorting them). If you flip Town btw, I would take that particular read to the grave. And yeah, I think it was Flea who said that they can’t understand why anyone forms lockTown reads D1. I disagree - in a select few instances, some players really Town tell to the point that they don’t make sense as anything but Town.

T3 is notoriously hard to read, but I have now made detailed cases against them in two games when they were Scum, and they’re just not pinging me here at all. So I would place them as Town until something changes. They just haven’t been chaotic, and I haven’t seen any perspective slips (which T3, you did have in that game you were complaining I had you from meta, which wasn’t true. I just didn’t point it out in time).

Flea has a relatively high degree of emotional content - which screams Town to me. They’re not really forming solid reads so it’s hard to base it off of anything else.

Now, IV is interesting. They have a few posts in there about how Holden should not be Town locked entirely, and could be deep Scum. It’s either Town that’s deeply paranoid, or Scum trying to make sure the execution pool stays as wide as possible. The thing about this game is that the options for Partners start dwindling quickly once the hoods are revealed (and for the most part, we know what they are). So Scum have to resort to this somewhat. Otherwise the pool narrows too quickly. It’s why hunting for the FN is key (and why piratemollie’s skepticism of you Koba makes some sense to me).

Facebones is probably okay. I liked the thoughtfulness behind 466. Now it does express a SR of the W&J slot, so if that’s wrong it’s something to think about. But the analysis itself didn’t scream Scum to me.

I am not entirely sure what to make of AliceK yet, but I have strong reasons to think that if they do flip Scum, then IV should be executed.

[Andresvmb]

Andres - I understand being sparse in content is NAI for you ,particularly now. However - we have little time left now. Please at least force out a perspective by now. I think you should try to read in the slots that aren't Me(because you have uh yeah been inaccurate with me)/Holden/Mollie, and I wanna know how you feel about players like Flea/T3/Alice/Facebones

I might be overthinking things frankly, but I need to let my thoughts settle for a day and I’ll come back to it tomorrow.

In summary, I read through Holden’s case against IV and I thought it was well thought out, reasonable, compelling. I can see why one would immediately TR it. Hell, I did. Which is why I understand why you keep asking piratemollie about their opinion of the slot - it’s the strongest TR you have, and so you want to see how other players read there for I’m going to guess a simple reason - to figure out whether they are looking at the game similar to how you are (which might help sorting them). If you flip Town btw, I would take that particular read to the grave. And yeah, I think it was Flea who said that they can’t understand why anyone forms lockTown reads D1. I disagree - in a select few instances, some players really Town tell to the point that they don’t make sense as anything but Town.

T3 is notoriously hard to read, but I have now made detailed cases against them in two games when they were Scum, and they’re just not pinging me here at all. So I would place them as Town until something changes. They just haven’t been chaotic, and I haven’t seen any perspective slips (which T3, you did have in that game you were complaining I had you from meta, which wasn’t true. I just didn’t point it out in time).

Flea has a relatively high degree of emotional content - which screams Town to me. They’re not really forming solid reads so it’s hard to base it off of anything else.

Now, IV is interesting. They have a few posts in there about how Holden should not be Town locked entirely, and could be deep Scum. It’s either Town that’s deeply paranoid, or Scum trying to make sure the execution pool stays as wide as possible. The thing about this game is that the options for Partners start dwindling quickly once the hoods are revealed (and for the most part, we know what they are). So Scum have to resort to this somewhat. Otherwise the pool narrows too quickly. It’s why hunting for the FN is key (and why piratemollie’s skepticism of you Koba makes some sense to me).

Facebones is probably okay. I liked the thoughtfulness behind 466. Now it does express a SR of the W&J slot, so if that’s wrong it’s something to think about. But the analysis itself didn’t scream Scum to me.

I am not entirely sure what to make of AliceK yet, but I have strong reasons to think that if they do flip Scum, then IV should be executed.

^hunting for the FN is key as Scum*

[Andresvmb]

Okay I’m caught up. Someone ask me something.

[Andresvmb]

Also, perhaps I need to detail why I’m being so skeptical of W&J. Because as much as I hate to say it, they will do anything and everything to win within the bounds of the game. I have seen them get into heated fights with their Partners, absolutely railroad players that weren’t sufficiently loud but had a good grasp for what was happening, engage in blatant manipulation, claim a nonsensical PR (and get away with it!), and even outright spam the thread as Scum. Everything that’s been said about their Town game is accurate btw - it’s based a lot on gut and emotion, but it tends to be mighty accurate. They can also switch on a dime. Which is why it’s so hard to pin them down early, and why I would caution anyone about forming a hard read of the slot unless they’re leading consecutive Scum executions and truly don’t make sense as Scum (though by then, they’re usually just NK’ed).

[Andresvmb]

Oh and I’m aware there’s only 2 Scum in this game. Which is the point - you can never be sure that Koba is Town here, unless they outright win the game (and the Scum will probably be too scared to keep them around for too long if they start hitting things on the nose).

[Wright and Justice]

I was hesitant to push on IV earlier because I thought they were FN for a while - mollie knows this. If I was scum who had an agenda of just outting the FN I just skip that step and push them or just let the townies push them when theyre already getting pushed.

Like this makes no sense. You thought they were FN, so you held on pushing them, but then why didn’t you question Holden’s case more aggressively? It came quite early, so you should have pushed back on it somewhat if your belief that IV was FN was genuine. But… you didn’t. You quoted it multiple times as legitimate in fact.

I believed their ploy to claim a hood with someone who wasn't their hoodmate was a possible FN thing so i decided to avoid pushing on it but when dayplay reasons catch up with someone, the mech reason isn't going to stand in my way.

it wasn't a particularly strong FN read regardless.


I get your point about my tone/play being able to come from scum!me - but if you and I are agreeing on reads for similar reasoning and such, that should be a good sign for you. you aren't explicitly townreading me here which is usually where we "agree" on reads if I'm scum against you so take that as you will. I *did* have you in some possible teams early on if I'm being honest - around the time I was pushing IV I thought there was a chance.

Right now I'm at the point where I think its Alice-> One of Facebones/IV and if game were to not end after that i'd be thinking hard about who last scum might be.

[Wright and Justice]

im a bit "high" off the covid booster shot right now so sorry if anything in the previous didnt make sense

[Wright and Justice]

Also, perhaps I need to detail why I’m being so skeptical of W&J. Because as much as I hate to say it, they will do anything and everything to win within the bounds of the game. I have seen them get into heated fights with their Partners, absolutely railroad players that weren’t sufficiently loud but had a good grasp for what was happening, engage in blatant manipulation, claim a nonsensical PR (and get away with it!), and even outright spam the thread as Scum. Everything that’s been said about their Town game is accurate btw - it’s based a lot on gut and emotion, but it tends to be mighty accurate. They can also switch on a dime. Which is why it’s so hard to pin them down early, and why I would caution anyone about forming a hard read of the slot unless they’re leading consecutive Scum executions and truly don’t make sense as Scum (though by then, they’re usually just NK’ed).

You can stop right fucking there. Koba is not the only one steering this slot, and yet your words here illustrate that they’re the only one you’re really perceiving. That is extremely reductive and I want you to stop.

-Justice

[Andresvmb]

Also, perhaps I need to detail why I’m being so skeptical of W&J. Because as much as I hate to say it, they will do anything and everything to win within the bounds of the game. I have seen them get into heated fights with their Partners, absolutely railroad players that weren’t sufficiently loud but had a good grasp for what was happening, engage in blatant manipulation, claim a nonsensical PR (and get away with it!), and even outright spam the thread as Scum. Everything that’s been said about their Town game is accurate btw - it’s based a lot on gut and emotion, but it tends to be mighty accurate. They can also switch on a dime. Which is why it’s so hard to pin them down early, and why I would caution anyone about forming a hard read of the slot unless they’re leading consecutive Scum executions and truly don’t make sense as Scum (though by then, they’re usually just NK’ed).

You can stop right fucking there. Koba is not the only one steering this slot, and yet your words here illustrate that they’re the only one you’re really perceiving. That is extremely reductive and I want you to stop.

-Justice

It’s not reductive - I have a hard time reading a hydra slot, since it’s the same as trying to figure out two slots in one, and I have a much better sense for how Koba plays (even if I acknowledge that they’re really tough to fully settle on).

Oh and btw, you don’t get to tell me how I form my reads. So you can’t tell me to stop. I’m not being toxic, or minimizing your individual contributions (which btw there aren’t many, and you’ve already stated that your reads agree with Koba’s, so it’s not like there’s any meaningful differences even if your tones are different).

[Andresvmb]

You can start complaining if I personally attack you or pretend like you don’t exist. That’s not what I’m doing. What I am doing is cautioning players from settling on the collective read they have of your slot because I know a member of the hydra is willing to go to great lengths as Scum to win a game. Not sure what’s so controversial about that.

[Wright and Justice]

Also I think what AliceK is seeing regarding T3 TRing is should imo make her question T3. T3 has a way of forcing out reads as scum, which I applaud him for as my own scum strategy tends to involve putting out strong reads, but there’s a way in which he does it as scum that I think can be recognized. Do I think he’s guilty of it here, not yet. But it’s something I think one should be wary of. So it’s concerning Alice immediately jumps to accusing us and Holden vs. scrutinizing T3’s immediate TR on us for Koba’s mech talk. Koba’s theory is Alice is trying to discredit town leader slots and I’m inclined to agree via the targeting of Holden in particular.

-Justice

[Wright and Justice]

You can start complaining if I personally attack you or pretend like you don’t exist. That’s not what I’m doing. What I am doing is cautioning players from settling on the collective read they have of your slot because I know a member of the hydra is willing to go to great lengths as Scum to win a game. Not sure what’s so controversial about that.

Do you think I’d sit idly by and let Koba do things I disapprove of? I’m pretty sure I’ve already had to bring them in a little. It just seems like you’re completely ignoring my influence, and that offends me. Being marginalized is one of my pet peeves.
This also feels like you’re throwing paranoia our way for very little reason. Do you ACTUALLY think we’re scum rn? If not, why the shade?

-Justice

[pirate mollie]

Also, perhaps I need to detail why I’m being so skeptical of W&J. Because as much as I hate to say it, they will do anything and everything to win within the bounds of the game. I have seen them get into heated fights with their Partners, absolutely railroad players that weren’t sufficiently loud but had a good grasp for what was happening, engage in blatant manipulation, claim a nonsensical PR (and get away with it!), and even outright spam the thread as Scum. Everything that’s been said about their Town game is accurate btw - it’s based a lot on gut and emotion, but it tends to be mighty accurate. They can also switch on a dime. Which is why it’s so hard to pin them down early, and why I would caution anyone about forming a hard read of the slot unless they’re leading consecutive Scum executions and truly don’t make sense as Scum (though by then, they’re usually just NK’ed).

I have found that the only way to read players like this is to read them through town perspective and then a scum perspective. The combined spam posting + pr hunting points to a non-town alignment.

I didn't find Holden's case towny since it is predicated on IV's readslist being scummy for being nuanced. I

do

wonder how much of this is impacted by my hard tr on IV.

I also find it interesting that Holden is saying that when a game is this sludgey, it usually indicates that scum are okay with the gamestate - which seems to be slowly moving to an AliceK lim - and then says that they will lim Alicek.

Let's be honest, at that point in the game, town was too dysfunctional for AliceK to be a scum!lim.

My biggest thing on Holden is that he is trying to force a narrative (scummy motivated) rather than to probe deeper into why there is a lack of a town cohesive one (town motivated).

And there is Gamma, and Gamma is pretty scummy here.

eta: lol. I guess Gamma went AWOL. That isn't Gamma., lmao

[Wright and Justice]

You haven't looked at me at all from a town perspective stop lying LMFAO

[pirate mollie]

So when you and Dkoba were comparing notes, did you tell him that I tend to get into TvT's? That would make sense with what is in our hood.

We have never gotten into a TvT, ever. You know why? Because you are a good egg. Why? because you are

decent person

. You don't posture, you don't bully people, you don't stomp around and belittle people and try to make them feel bad about themselves. Not in any game ever, when we played together.

The only reason I am pushing you is because I firmly believe you two to be scum, both independently and combined. You know Dkoba's reactions are bad. He is coming from a position of trying to control the narrative vs finding scum. The push on IV was ridiculous.

[Wright and Justice]

I'd like to point back to the game I linked where people asserted that me looking for 3P meant I was 100% scum and then got to be clowned for the take.



you aren't the first nor the last to try to tie an action that *already explained why I do from a town perspective* and twist it as only being from scum.


I 100% expect an apology from you post game after the way you have treated me even if you flip scum.


You are so caught up in this tunnel still you forgot that Facebones wagon is a thing and that Alice/Facebones can be teamed together.


Point me to a single thing Alice said that was towny - and no, sowing doubt on obvious town like Holden isn't towny.

[Wright and Justice]

stop pretending like you're a fucking saint lmfao

you have been consistently bad faith, inconsiderate, and straight up awful towards me this game and you refuse to admit it because your ego is too large.

[Wright and Justice]

its been a sludge because the 2 main pushes have been mostly quiet and not active and hey - that kinda makes it *hard* to get movement.


notice how nobody is sheeping you on my slot now?

Are you a scumhunting genius now? That you can see through me so well when others have seen the same evidence and said basically "nah thats fucking NAI garbage"

humble thyself.

[Wright and Justice]

just because townies are finding eachother without you doesn't mean townies aren't finding eachother btw mollie - it just means you're getting in the way.

[Wright and Justice]

and as for Gamma being a "good egg" and you making all those assumptions about what she would do - in all seriousness? you dont fucking know gamma well like that. you dont get to make assertions like that about people you barely know. so frankly, show some respect to gamma and dont assume things. Gamma is someone who isn't going to make me do anything.