Open 838 – ISITMAINAC [Endgame]

[StrangeMatter]

Neato. Starting here.

VOTE: Save The Dragons

I have absolutely no idea how to read Not Mafia and another player not in this game who is T3 so some help there would be nice.

[StrangeMatter]

I'm particularly waiting for STD to say something.

[StrangeMatter]

I mean, yes. I would like the IC to be present in the game. You got me.

Pedit: I disagree with 39. Not sure if getting into an argument with you about it would be beneficial to anyone, but.

I don't see why it's not beneficial to have an argument early. Usually, it tells a lot about someone's alignment and who they are with (except when people have faked like with Roden faking an argument with his scum partner), what they're thinking, and so on with the only downside I've heard from other players is that it gives scum a stepping stone to play around.

[StrangeMatter]

what did you think of what i said

This is so far open ended I don't even really know how to respond. Do you mean #15? It's fluff that has nothing to do with this game if that's what you're asking.

[StrangeMatter]

Although I definitely didn't word that well I'm waiting to see content from you in particular, STD.

[StrangeMatter]

I'm particularly waiting for STD to say something.

I worded this so poorly.

[StrangeMatter]

I don't see why it's not beneficial to have an argument early.

That's not what I said, though. I was referring to

that

specific argument. An argument with RCEnigma about whether a slot making RVS posts with their first or second post (when there's already some non-RVS content) is prolonging RVS.

I wouldn't be able to get anything out of that argument, since I'd be arguing with the IC. Besides that, I'd be arguing about mafia theory, something that is pretty much completely separate from my own alignment here.

Would you have been able to tell all those things you listed in 49 from me arguing with the IC about mafia theory?

For alignment partially yes but never fully accurately, partnering is the rockiest one. Idk it's not my forte and I have many, many bad experiences with it. Now understanding what someone's thinking I do think I can on you.

Also with STD I don't really want to say why I'm pushing them so much other than I've played with them before and there's something I'm keeping an eye on for.

[StrangeMatter]

Cool, okay. I disagree with RCEnigma's 39, because it was claiming that a slot's first or second post being an RVS post cannot be a prolongation of RVS in a game. I disagree with that because I think it doesn't matter which post in an individual ISO it is, if there's some attempt happening to get the game moving out of RVS, and the slot chooses to do an RVS post, they're trying to prolong RVS. Therefore his dislike of my 37 is bad and he should rethink all of his life decisions.

What does this argument tell you about my alignment, now?

Well for one thing I find it harder with more experienced players to determine alignment, here I feel like it's a very out-there idea that I really don't agree with, but I don't think that it can even come from scum (though I have no clue about its utility towards scum if anyone would care to inform me about that, that would be great).

[StrangeMatter]

Also with STD I don't really want to say why I'm pushing them so much other than I've played with them before and there's something I'm keeping an eye on for.

Considering nobody cares enough to interact with my mystery vote on StrangeMatter -- why are you making such a big deal out of keeping an eye on Save The Dragons? If you had something you want to look out for due to meta, fine. But blasting it loudly like this is just giving a warning to scum!Save The Dragons. Feels more like you just want to convince the rest of us you're solving his alignment, rather than actually solving it.

If I were doing that, I would've already said what it is and they could easily avoid it so I don't get what you're trying to say with "warning" him. Also, I am trying to solve this slot, but I need content from him, which I'm pushing for, and something that I'm trying to also read into to see if they are scum or town at this point.

[StrangeMatter]

Well for one thing I find it harder with more experienced players to determine alignment, here I feel like it's a very out-there idea that I really don't agree with,

but I don't think that it can even come from scum

(though I have no clue about its utility towards scum if anyone would care to inform me about that, that would be great).

What does the bolded mean? Makes it sound like you think my idea cannot come from scum, which is not the vibe I'm really getting from the rest of your posting?

Also with STD I don't really want to say why I'm pushing them so much other than I've played with them before and there's something I'm keeping an eye on for.

Considering nobody cares enough to interact with my mystery vote on StrangeMatter -- why are you making such a big deal out of keeping an eye on Save The Dragons? If you had something you want to look out for due to meta, fine. But blasting it loudly like this is just giving a warning to scum!Save The Dragons. Feels more like you just want to convince the rest of us you're solving his alignment, rather than actually solving it.

If I were doing that, I would've already said what it is and they could easily avoid it so I don't get what you're trying to say with "warning" him. Also, I am trying to solve this slot, but I need content from him, which I'm pushing for, and something that I'm trying to also read into to see if they are scum or town at this point.

Going "hey, I am specifically watching Save The Dragons, I want to see content from him, there is something I am looking out for" is definitely a warning. Pushing for content is one thing (even though arguably you didn't even do that, since most of your posts about him consisted only of talking about reading him and now actually pushing him), but the way you kept presenting it to the rest of the game that you're

very definitely solving Save The Dragons

makes it read fake as hell.

1. To me it's the idea that I can't really read any scum intent from that.
2. I have no idea how else I'm supposed to put this because right now THAT'S where I want to focus and read. Getting real sick and tired of talking to you at this point because you're just tunneled onto me.

[StrangeMatter]

STD do you have any thoughts about the conversation that's been going on so far?

[StrangeMatter]

2. I have no idea how else I'm supposed to put this because right now THAT'S where I want to focus and read.

You weren't supposed to put it at all, that's the point... Yelling about how you have this one and only player you want to focus on makes you look performative and scummy... But I can drop the convo, obviously neither of us is budging.

Fine. But of all the players in this game, the ones I know at least something about are STD and Salsa (Pardon me if I miss people but these two are the ones I remember the best from playing with), which to me are easier to read because I know them at the minimum than people I haven't ever played with.

[StrangeMatter]

Honestly, StrangeMatter mentioned Salsabil Faria too in 80, but is just focusing way too much on STD. (Salsabil Faria, can I just refer to you as Salsa, like StrangeMatter does, in the future in case I misspell your name?)
P-edit: VOTE: StrangeMatter
StrangeMatter, please explain your focus on STD over Salsabil Faria.

I have more experience with STD than Salsa if that’s what you mean. Also I haven’t changed because I don’t want to. Explaining further ruins this as I’ve stated a lot more, and I’m focusing on people one at a time then moving on when I think I have a good read.

[StrangeMatter]

I currently don’t have a read on them so…I have no clue where you think I’m TRing them with basically nothing.

[StrangeMatter]

Honestly, StrangeMatter mentioned Salsabil Faria too in 80, but is just focusing way too much on STD. (Salsabil Faria, can I just refer to you as Salsa, like StrangeMatter does, in the future in case I misspell your name?)
P-edit: VOTE: StrangeMatter
StrangeMatter, please explain your focus on STD over Salsabil Faria.

I have more experience with STD than Salsa if that’s what you mean. Also I haven’t changed because I don’t want to. Explaining further ruins this as I’ve stated a lot more, and I’m focusing on people one at a time then moving on when I think I have a good read.

Where are you in terms of completion of your focus on STD and what have you yielded so far in terms of information.

Also, what will satisfy you to “move on” to your next person to question. And what decides who’s next?

I've stated what I think means I should move on, otherwise, if nothing happens with the slot and there's no way to get anything out of it then that's also when I just move on.

As far as reading STD, I really don't have much other than what I have right now, which is he's more likely to be scum here if I'm right about what I thought. But that thought's a bit hasty for right now, and I'd like to get more out of him.

@STD what is your reads currently? And can you please be thorough?

[StrangeMatter]

What does 266 even mean??

I was just about to ask that exact question myself as well lol.

[StrangeMatter]

i think salsa's town

Okay, so why do you think Salsa is town though?

[StrangeMatter]

I want you to walk me through this thought, please.

[StrangeMatter]

For the record, I don't have a problem with my post being interpreted as "Galron trying to be townread", since that is more or less what I meant. It seems like he's trying to ask the right questions, but it's just not... quite there.

As to how RH9 saw that being similar to his play in another game where he was scum, then decided the plays aren't the same, and then still townreads Galron is beyond me. RH9, why is Galron town?

Galron isn't talking mechanics and seems less opportunistic.

What do you mean by less opportunistic, and especially what do you mean by mechanics? Also, what pings you as less opportunistic?

[StrangeMatter]

i just like 139

I'm sorry but this answer is so vague that it still leaves me with nothing. Please elaborate, I said that earlier and this is not helpful. I swear it just feels like you're trying to be incredibly hard to read for no reason with these answers.

[StrangeMatter]

Feel like I need to say this. Scorpious, I know that you're the highest poster. However, I would like to say that my highest townread is Nathann. Literally, every post he's made has shown high solving intent. He's been trying to sort everybody and has been acting in a progressive manner. I know this might seem pockety but I am saying this genuinely. I don't care, Nathann, if you don't TR me but I would like to point out how much I am liking your actions.

What is this, really? I’ve never seen someone be so enamored with a slot, and be so unabashed in saying so.

It’s just weird.

I'm wondering though, by what this said here, what's your opinion of my pushes on me pushing STD? Because you haven't addressed that and to me and it bugs me by that kind of feeling I get from potentially (theoretically you as scum here) scum trying to set up partners interaction/who they haven't interacted with later if you flip.

[StrangeMatter]

Also, Jacket, why the unvote?

He said a thing I don't think comes from scum.

Alright I'm back, I've been way too disconnected from this game much like last time.

Can you walk me through what you think doesn't come from scum, and why?

[StrangeMatter]

About RH9 if anyone's asking who is this about. Forgot to mention that.

[StrangeMatter]

Also, Jacket, why the unvote?

He said a thing I don't think comes from scum.

Alright I'm back, I've been way too disconnected from this game much like last time.

Can you walk me through what you think doesn't come from scum, and why?

See my above answer to Nathann. Is that the only thing you have to talk about after being gone for three days?

Partially since I'm still trying to parse and failing since I barely understand the conversations. Currently, this is the busiest time for me right now so this comes second hand.

Also, this is probably repeating what Nathann said earlier about wanting to hear the reasons for STD being town, but even discarding what I think I know (just if they were a pure stranger) for a second, I don't see a good reason they are townread?

[StrangeMatter]

why does scum do what i've done so far

Alright enough of this. It was mostly getting the ball rolling very very early with a meta read, but you've done this (trying to just stay out of everyone's radar) in two of the other games I've played with you. I think it's well within the possibility here still that you would still try to do that as scum in this game and just go under people's radar until later.

Links to the two games here as well.

viewtopic.php?t=86874&f=11&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go
viewtopic.php?t=87863&f=23&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

[StrangeMatter]

why does scum do what i've done so far

Alright enough of this. It was mostly getting the ball rolling very very early with a meta read, but you've done this (trying to just stay out of everyone's radar) in two of the other games I've played with you. I think it's well within the possibility here still that you would still try to do that as scum in this game and just go under people's radar until later.

Links to the two games here as well.

viewtopic.php?t=86874&f=11&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go
viewtopic.php?t=87863&f=23&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

Do you think he's playing similarly to those games? It feels like from a quick look at both of those he was a lot quicker to get the ball rolling/provide content as scum than he has been here.

You also only linked scum games. Have you compared it to his town game at all? Do you think there's a difference?

Also, is STD literally the only person you're going to have a read on this game day?

Yes, he is playing similarly when reading those all over. As for comparing it to his town game I don’t think I have compared them to his town games so I’m going to come back to these questions.

As for reads, no but they’re not strong reads, mostly small pings that I’ve pointed out in other posts.

[StrangeMatter]

For reference on his town game. This is also the most recent STD town game as well.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88151

Looking through this game, there’s definitely a difference how he’s playing there vs playing here. There they are far more active day 1 with a conversation about policy but I see far more that to me reads like they are actually trying to contribute towards the game. Here and those other two games are far more in the background.

[StrangeMatter]

StrangeMatter, you mentioned only one towngame for STD? Have you seen his other towngames? I don't think that using only one towngame and two scumgames for comparison is fair to STD.

Have you considered that STD can change and that his towngame is no longer like it was before.
I think that you might be confbiased. I have seen confbiases and experienced confbias. It has hardly ended well except when the confbias is dropped.

I'm not really confirmation biased just focused on STD right now. I've had games where after a few couple of games (though this is off-site) I pretty much understand what their scum gameplay is and what they prefer to do as scum from what I know of them. So while I normally don't normally put a lot into meta, this is one of those times I (personally think) have a good track record of actually getting right and something I go to on whenever I can with people I actually know.

As for not being fair, I'm fine with going through again. And that last question I'm not even sure what you're trying to get at. Yes, people can change (in fact this definitely happened to me at one point) but it lines up with what I currently understand about STD's scum gameplay.

[StrangeMatter]

I'm kind of shocked anyone could have me as top town right now.

With regard to Scorpious: the big brain Slayer's_Gambit of 345 is the type of play I almost never see scum making. People always end up paranoid of it and

scum usually end try to justify their actions in a conventional way

, rather than claiming "I was being scummy on purpose!!". His earlier posts had good questioning and a healthy dose of paranoia toward other players, they weren't bad by any means, so it's honestly hard for me to believe he'd make a weak vote "accidentally" and then try to cover it up with that excuse as scum. I don't really get the hate he's getting for that. I didn't like his push on me, but I feel like he could have just been legitimately misinterpreting the post I made when I was entering the game and getting hung up on my word choice.

What do you mean by "in a conventional way" here?

[StrangeMatter]

Ggs everyone. This game was very interesting to me after I subbed out. Though we didn’t get to see much of Galron’s play and I would’ve liked to see it considering what others have said about them.