Manatee's Pokemon Large Theme | Game Over

[Milobird]

Chow
Std
Pooky
Sircakez
Mastina
Koba
Titus
Milo
Math
I

Chow, claim.

Also, Mala why don't you think I'm buddying you or whatever. I don't need to sort you anymore, but I'm just like, even I think I'm being a little buddyish.

Also, Mathblade, that's cool. I missed it because I'm not trying very hard.

I guess that leaves:
Pooky, Chowchow, Mastina.

With STD and Koba being my lean town but not actually clear pool I guess I'll have mud on my face.
Also, maybe I should be rethinking that.
Also, no. I'm never clearing Pooky this game without a cop clear. I just can't. Gyphx was gunna get limmed. Might as well use his death to get somebody elevated to obvtown. and yes I know that Gyphx was a powerful role. But he was gunna die anyway. He can use his power shot and then die.
-Bell

I will die on this stupid hill. Pooky is always suspicious.
I love him.

pooky too funny to be scum

pooky is decidedly not funny when scum

This is a blatant lie.
And Pooky just agreed with you. So now I'm just over here wondering if I'm doubting myself.

Pooky is my paranoia, I told you so read. Hands off.

-Bell

But I'm getting nervous yo.
The closer it gets to us losing an easy win. The more I feel compelled to give a shit.
and I hate giving a shit.

But I can still see a reality in which they drifted off of Wisdom's wings.

I'm just not sure,
that madstina+thatpoststina+claimed1stina

all at once is a good idea. But I could be focusing on the wrong stuff I guess.
I'm not against paranoia murdering Pooky and then having him berate us all.

-Bell

I'm giving it a college try because I'm a team player and just because I don't agree with Notty doesn't mean I can't make an argument for someone to be town or scum for every player except, you know, the inno ones. I have had condescending scum before that were largely concerned with berating the town from moral outrage.

-Bell

I can confirm that Pooky would definitely let their partner be bad.
I was a Pooky pal once.

-Bell

thats not a thought process thats just a description of gypyx being scum in another game


what in *this* game made you think they were scum?

He was flat out useless

ninja-
pooky encourages their partner to be what they want to be

he encouraged me to stunt in bloodstained

Nono, I mean like, all of the night actions so we can eliminate all the possibilities.

I find it unlikely Pooky was shot at. So eliminate that possibility.

We're left with what.

Okay, who targeted Til.
Who Jailed Pooky.
What were the abilities?

Anything else that could have interfered with a kill that's known?

I'm not against killing both of you.

VOTE: PookyTheMagicalBear

Talked it over.
Wanna kill Pooky and then try tomorrow if there is one.
I'm burnt out.

-Bell.

That's cool Pooky.
Let's kill you first and then if you're town you can tell us it's Koba from the dead thread and I'll hear you and nod wisely.

-Bell

It's mean.
That's not the bear I know and love.
You must be possessed by a scum spirit.
Let me exorcise it for you.

-Bell

If Pooky is town, I will do one of two things.

1. Emotionally just instant vote Koba and follow the bear.
2. Try my hardest to get it right like I always do in elo and just read as much as I can and do as much as I can with the time I have available to me. I will try to force Mastina and Koba to cross vote.
Make them case each other and reread the game while doing so.
It's always worked for me. *shrug*

-Bell

I've never lost an elo as town.
-Bell.

Titus, Sircakez is confirmed due to him being visited by someone's role that said he was town. I remember Notty saying it was a neighborizor or something. Regardless, if we lose to that oh well.

But no, this is it yo. Moment of truth.

-Bell

Pooky and Mastina need to cross vote.

-Bell

Also, given Pooky's confidence in Mastina, I think we kind of know the answer here.

Pooky was sure I and Mastina were town.
So this is real awkward for him.

Notty wants Mastina,
I want Pooky. But I'm just gunna go read and figure it out.

-Bell

Notty thinks Mastina's role fits another scum player's role.
Rather it compliments it. He'll have to explain it himself.

I just think narratively, Pooky makes the most sense.
I know he wants to crush the tiring "I don't bus" narrative.
I know he loves telling the petapan story of the time he got vigged by his own partner.
I know he wants an awesome story of that one time he vigged a partner and rode it to scum victory.

-Bell

I'm a serial solving procrastinator, but Pooky actually isn't really one.
But he tends to be lazier in solving when he's scum.
Which is demonstrably true here.

-Bell

I'm not sure how much I should weigh Pooky's drunk posting against him.
He was saying we were gunna lose by not killing koba, but killing him instead when, you know,
we had two eliminations left.

-Bell

also, Pooky, according to Notty sources, did infact vote his partner recently in a completed game, mountain dew, he voted Dunnstral.

Pooky, your response?

-Bell

titus, you've played with Mastina and Pooky for centuries.
Which do you think it is? Why?

Sircakez:

....

Sircakez >_>
I dunno what to ask you or say to you.
I don't trust your reads, I don't trust your takes, I don't really know how accurate you are as town or if you really can avoid being fooled from PookyTheMagicalBear. who is, to my knowledge, an excellent pocketer.
-Bell

I actually don't know why I'm asking Titus for their takes when I don't trust their reads either.

-Bell

Eh, give me all the takes, I will solve for it.

And the fact Bell came in here immediately and dropped a metric fuckton of posts when they had been so apathetic for so long rings suspiciously in my mind too
I really dislike them trying to widen the elim pool and add Mastina

-Bell

It's elo, I don't like to lose. I've never lost in elo.

My motivation is clear as day here.
I have pride and vanity.
I'm a serial procrastinator that often let's games that seem won slip through their fingers until the end when I try again.

This is actually, extremely my speed.

Though I don't think you actually know that.

See death curse for another example of me owning and then basically checking out until the end of the game when I panic solve.

-Bell

Uh, and no, I directly said what I was gunna do this day phase.
I was gunna get Mastina and Pooky to cross vote each other and then pick.
This is actually my MO for all of ELO games.
Remove yourself from the elim pool.
Make a coin flip.

-Bell

Also, wasn't Koba like super spamming yesterday. I think you have no idea what reading people means.
Koba was being super shameless for scum them which is actually super townie of them, from a WIM perspective.
As town, I often just miss, sulk for three seconds and then go on and pretend my fuck up never happened.

Though in this case, I haven't really been involved enough with another elim other than Gyphx's to take much ownership of anything relating to reads.
My hands are clean on the Wisdom fuck up.

-Bell

Wait, why are you willing to suspect Pooky, but not Mastina Cakez?

Is it just because of Koba?

-Bell

But really,
I always lose my shit in elo as town.

This is documented.

-Bell

vote me coward

It depends on what Notty wants. He kind of hates this game.
If it were me, I would murder you for glory and or hate mail.

But It's not just my show, especially when Notty has actually tried significantly harder than I have this game.
I've been a disappointing hydra partner, to say the least.

*flips off Koba from beyond the grave*

-Bell

See, that's just it.
Koba's clown town meta should have made him uneliminatable.
But nobody listened to my ironclad case for town Koba.

Also, because of my pedantism, I will point out he was right on SSBM.

and some other stuff that I forgot.

-Bell

You're full of shit, lol.
It's common sense that scum do not like putting themselves in the position of hard pushing town miselims one after the other because of that reasoning.

There are some rare players that do, such as Wisdom. But they're the exception, not the rule.

-Bell

If I voted every scum in a game but did nothing to convince others that they were scum, what part, exactly did I play in securing their elimination?
You're fully capable of selling an elimination if you want to.
But I can't remember sale.

Even Mastina had one, even if it was bunk.

-Bell

good talk bell

if you wanted to engage with me, calling me scum when you know my scum game is terrible and I couldn't fool a wet paper bag for more than a minute wasn't going to sell me that my initial impression was wrong.
Mastina at least has a history of having bad reads and making huge misplays.
You don't have that excuse. BOP. >.>

-Bell

You've trapped yourself by calling both of us obvtown this whole game Pooky. It wasn't like you could have known that there would be this many clears.

-Bell

I actually don't know why I'm asking Titus for their takes when I don't trust their reads either.

-Bell

Normally I'd hate discrediting conftown but I am off.

I still want scum to make the SirCakez kill.

I mean, I do this every game tho. It's my genuine opinion that your read accuracy is just kinda random. I'm not sure there are a ton of players I actually trust to have above average accuracy tbh, it's not meant to offend.

But I think I've said this before.

Cakez Takez are just kinda ew this game though. They're...I dunno. It's like we read the game totally differently along with people's motivations etc.

-Bell

You're demanding I make a Mastina case right this second I assume separate from the last one Notty made and I half-assedly made in a show of reluctant support.

But you know that I'm a slow burner.

no just give me one reason

you can't even say a thing

They voted us. They haven't been super interactive. They haven't fallen apart which points against it, but I've seen them do better as town so maybe.
If you want me to actually drown you in analysis I have to reread the game though. Something you're trying to distract me from doing. There's no rush.
We have this day phase and the next apparently, since Titus wants to watch Sircakez die just in case a player played against win con.

-Bell

I'm very happy with my assigned Pokemon.

wow im not

Same, I did not get Ralts : (

Pokemon! Gotta catch em all!

Interpretation 1: Trying to fit in, scum. +

Interpretation 2: Relaxed town. ~

I have a dnd sesh, but we have days for me to spam solve so just leave it be and I'll be obvious town in very short order.

As for the 100 versus 200 posts thing.
I'm not entirely sure what you'd like for me to say to that. That's a narrow distinction. I don't really know how long your slump is going to last anyway. Nobody but you does. I'll be making a better case for town/scum you anyway and you're going to have to deal more with that then what I'm saying now anyway.

-Bell

I suspect you more. This has been said from the outset, but I also do my due diligence.
And in the midst of that I spam.

I'm going to drown both of you, just wait in the corner and wait for the puzzle solve.

-Bell

pokemon games are a scam they just copy paste the same formula over and over with terrible 2010 graphics
thoughrs?

VOTE: SirCakez
Scum claim

can we put early pressure on mastina and see their reaction?

VOTE: mastina

I thought we agreed to policy cakez

I dont understand why we haven't power yeeted dwlee yet.

Firebringer, with me.

They're not posting socks.

They're all talk and no action.

I still think mastina pressure is never bad

Does Mastina even need pressure. They kind of fall apart on their own as scum lately. Though I always feel bad saying that.
But it’s only fair because everyone says that about me.

-Bell

I still think mastina pressure is never bad

Is it really pressure if its just nonsense? Also in my experience pressuring mastina means she will respond to the pressure 2 weeks later when catching up and not acknowledge you continuing to talk to her in real time in the thread. She'll get to that in 2 more weeks.

Sock tease
VOTE: Dwlee99

that would be a town response by Mastina.

So it would be kinda worth it.

-Bell.

I've literally seen scum mastina use that as a tactic multiple times before.

Can’t believe scum would openly claim their alignment like that

-Gamma

They sure aren't doing this, this game. If TSQ is referring to the fact that they just never really respond to people until 2 months later.
But that hasn't really been my experience. They've always been pretty delayed in terms of responsiveness. This is actually an exception. Where they're engaging in real time with me.

So I guess strike one.

-Bell

VOTE: Firebringer

Leggo

this fb wagon is dumb

I have early townreads on TheStatusQuo and Gamma.

See you all in 20 pages.

I highly doubt scums fake claim are an entire separate Pokémon and not just a new version of actual flavor

This seems to come from an informed perspective.

VOTE: Milobird

this fb wagon is dumb

Why?

seems random

I'm noticing a pattern with ralts. third chime, best chime. third vote, best vote.

-Bell

According to you me/mastina are supposed to cross vote for you and you will murder us easily if we don't.

This is pretty accurate. I'll be surprised if that's not the case.

-Bell

Just self-vote already Pooky.
If you wanted to live maybe you should've done more than just shoot a buddy and coast.

-Bell

You've done nothing but troll this day phase and last day phase.

-Bell

Every post you make is designed to bait us into engaging you, but unlike the last time, I see zero desire to sort or think.

-Bell

You're trying to engage us to survive.
Not to sort or solve.

-Bell

Cakez Takez are just kinda ew this game though. They're...I dunno. It's like we read the game totally differently along with people's motivations etc.

this is such BS you're pulling this out of your ass to discredit me

Nope.

-Bell

Your reads suck and I've never seen you have good reads so like.

That's my genuine opinion.
I feel like we've had this talk before.
Actually, now that I think about it, we have had this talk before.

-Bell

Give us the parts where Pooky defends or pushes scum in the thread.

How weak sauce/versus strong sauce were they?
Did he express these same thoughts in thread to the same degree?
Did he solve at night or was he just chillin? -> This isn't actually scum indicative, I'm just curious.

-Bell

seems random

Every wagon so far has been random tho, why call out this one

seems random

Every wagon so far has been random tho, why call out this one

what other wagon

Think there were wagons on dwlee and cakez

i think you already received your answer

Uhhh I don't get it

i think you already received your answer

Uhhh I don't get it

you said every wagon was random

i said what other wagons implying i don't know the existence of other random wagons therefore why would i call out another wagon

Fair

ok but given that its RVS and all wagons are going to be dumb why did you make that callout like you did? Further to the point, what did you hope to accomplish by calling it out like you did?

It seems to me that as someone who has been playing since 2004 you would know that frequently wagons start in RVS for basically no reason, are dumb, and then from the ashes of those wagons people actually start having more relevant opinions and that's how we move from noise to signal.

So like, what does town you hope to accomplish in this instance from specifically saying "x wagon is dumb."

Like, yes it is, that's the point. And I know you know this.

I wanna kill FB and STD.
-Milobird

Ralts and TSQ seem okay, but I’ll wait and see.

-Bell

The question was "what did you hope to gain from posting 'x wagon is dumb' when you know that all early wagons are dumb and indeed that's how the entire beginning of a mafia game works"

I think I’m usually pretty obvious town as town. I get overexcited and make occasionally scummy posts but usually bluster right on through to be annoyingly difficult to elim just from sheer quantity.

Except I can’t spam post because weekday job is demanding. So I should probably get a new meta.

STD is lying and being weird and I’ll take that to the bank.
-Bell

ok you found me

it's not possible for town to call out a wagon as dumb

you're right shea

1) first quote: so? do you usually call out all dumb 3 person wagons you become aware of on page 9 of a large?

no

i post what i feel as town and edit myself as scum

guess which one this was

2) second quote: ok but you're missing my point which is that people generally don't do this because they know its fluff and they are looking to find actual things to talk about which might create meaningful information for them to solve other players alignment which brings me to

since when do i do what people generally do or don't do

3) third quote: I don't see you doing that here. It's less a scum motivation thing and more of a scum mindset thing. Scum frequently have a hard time doing the whole trying to solve players thing because they already know the alignment of their partners, so they find ways to talk about the game which don't have actual consequence. they want to look like they're scum hunting or trying to divine alignment, but they're not. Your statement was that. It was the exact kind of statement scum makes when they're trying to look like they're making game relevant observations which under closer scrutiny are actually just meaningless fluff.

isn't it weird how i ended up voting one of the wagoners tho :thinking emoji:

And that brings me to the snarky citation needed post. The town std I'm familiar with would be attempting to solve me through this discussion. you're not. you're attempting to shade my arguments and try to make them look ridiculous. every single response you've made has been a slight misinterpretation of what I'm saying to make it look slightly worse than it actually is. I don't get the impression at all that you're curious about my alignment here, and given that my meta as scum definitely includes making aggressive d1 pushes (side eye: fb for townbinning me when he should know that about my scum game. potential pocket attempt?) one would think you would be.

i think you may not have an updated meta

sigh

I like tsq's takes so far. happy to see where this goes

VOTE: save the dragons

am i the only one to like STD's reaction to his wagon? Like, it's quite the overagression from TSQ, and fenrir's reaction doesn't really feel calculated if y'all see what i mean

additionally wheme seems cool

nah, i just like the content of his character and the greeneness of his role PM

most major thing is that i doubt scum would do the charizard fake claim thingy

am i the only one to like STD's reaction to his wagon? Like, it's quite the overagression from TSQ, and fenrir's reaction doesn't really feel calculated if y'all see what i mean

additionally wheme seems cool

What of my points do you disagree with?

i'm thinking that STD's comment on the gamestate isn't indicative of him actually picking between wagons to choose which one to call out as random as this is the only real wagon we got while STD was online, besides yeah, it was absolutely random too and i don't see why you're making such a big deal outta this

I think you must not be reading my posts then. Because my argument has very little to do with which wagon STD called out but rather why STD made that comment at all.

hmmm, fuck

yeah okay that's fair, better that way, still weighting on the side of town!STD tho

Yo, will be back here to read and give reads later but for now just wanted to claim this;

I am a 1x reflexive role-copier

; I will get a one-shot copy of the first power to target me. So,

if you think your power is pretty damn strong especially if a second player can use it, you should target me N1

.

hai
tsq/std is tvt
VOTE: woolax

Without reading much of what TSQ said because I only got 4 hours of sleep despite popping a melatonin: firebringer wagon wasn't actually bad imo but I can see town!STD thinking it was and saying it like he did
Speaking of which:
VOTE: firebringer

most major thing is that i doubt scum would do the charizard fake claim thingy

I had a null takeaway on that because the ruleset openly limits the gens to 2 and 3, and I don't think fakeclaiming an obviously fake claim is likely to mean anything more than early-game shitposting.

Also, pretty sure I know what pokemon Mastina is claiming, but not sure if there's any benefit/detriment to saying. I

will

say I'm trying to think if there's a scummy equivalent that would want to be targeted, (something that steals your ability or something?) and I can't think of anything. So for now I'm thinking that's probably a legit town claim?

@Mastina: do you know what happens if you get targeted by multiple people in the same night?

- B.

that's a good point, on the other hand i might be overanalyzing a crumb too, but idk, got a good but feeling from wheme doing this

additionally, while the claim is slightly +town, i doubt mastina's role can't be a scum role too, heck, a reflexive rolecop maybe?

@Mastina: do you know what happens if you get targeted by multiple people in the same night?

I do, the interaction's laid out in my role PM. Not sure if I should share it tho. Do you think I should?

(Okay that wasn't me catching up, that was me jumping ahead. But NOW catching up from page one.)

VOTE: wisdom
let's murder him before he gets back from V/LA

VOTE: SirCakez
Even though I'm not scumreading this opening (not townreading it either but not scumreading it, is null), SirCakez draws scum in 100% of his games it seems so we may as well save him the misery of another scumgame and vote him out.

so uh T3 apart not liking 122 from milo, anything more concrete from your catchup?

I'm very happy with my assigned Pokemon.

Wood

you believe that my pokemon's one of the most appropriate for me?

I wanna be the very best like no one ever was

DUN DUN DUN

Town.

VOTE: sir cakez
first person who posts is always scum. i think thats like mafia facts

Firebringer. (I can't read Firebringer and won't pretend that I can, tho I will say that this would be 'town' alongside the above by natural inclination.)

I wanna be the very best like no one ever was

your avatar looks like a pokemon

Scum?

PS: how did I completely miss the fact mastina is in this, I definitely looked at the playerlist multiple times and definitely did not see her name there o_O
-q

If it makes you feel any better, I completely and entirely forgot that I signed up for this game until I received my role PM.

Im gonna full claim

I am mareep. I pick a target to sheep and when I do I become a double voter when I am sheeping that person

locktown

Mastina's entry doesn't feel much like scum. It's chill. 337 is odd. I don't really unerstand it, because it seems designed to make Deadcell uncomfortable? But it just feels startlingly open. But that's kind of their MO at the beginning of the game anyway and they did just claim out right at the beginning. So.
Gyphx is being too reasonable early. All of his takes are informed and he uses that...to town read people and push at people he knows are wrong.
Dwlee, is mostly at the periphery. I think he was just trying to avoid attention by voting FB, rather than pushing more at STD, or voting somewhere else.

-Bell

Ralts doesn't really stand out. He just doesn't understand what STD is saying and that's pretty much it. It's probably true regardless of his alignment. It's kind of pointless though. I guess you could stretch it and say how they're approaching STD is tip-toeing. Trying not to offend, not giving them ammunition, Not even directly asking them what they mean, but instead putting it on themselves for feeling responsible that they can't understand them. It's kind of post county buffing. But that's all a stretch to me. It's just two nothing posts I think. aybe the responsibility portion points away from them. I'm probably overthinking it.

-Bell

can we put early pressure on mastina and see their reaction?

I mean, you

can

, but it aint gonna do you much good given that I've all-but-fullclaimed already so I really don't have anything more to give ya.

im putting on bet now that 90% of alexandrites posts will be gamma so i don't think any of u need to be worried about thinking "who is posting this?"

I'd take that bet but I'd lose given that that's pretty much exactly the amount I'd guess would be Gamma.

I still think mastina pressure is never bad

Oh I imagine it'd work wonders if I actually ever drew scum but since mods seem to want me to always be fairly confirmable town......

They kind of fall apart on their own as scum lately. Though I always feel bad saying that.

I mean, it's

true

, so no need to feel bad saying that, but I also tend to fall apart faster as scum when pressured so Wheme's not wrong.

Also in my experience pressuring mastina means she will respond to the pressure 2 weeks later when catching up and not acknowledge you continuing to talk to her in real time in the thread. She'll get to that in 2 more weeks.

I feel called out.

...But not unjustifiably as this is

also

true.

seems random

Speaking of random, have my readslist!

Milobird
Save the Dragons
Firebringer
Thestatusquo

Truth Innuendos Lies
Sharing the Brain Cell

Kitty Trauma Team
Dwlee99
Ralts

The Goat
Gypyx
Alexandrite
chowchow
WhemeStar
Woolax
Wisdom
SleepyKrew

imaginality
T3
SirCakez

I can't decide if this a town reach or a scum reach tho.

If it helps I hated that post which immediately put imaginality in my bottom 3 reads. (Which, in spite of how I jested about the randomness of my readslist, was not in fact actually random. Well, mostly. I actually was stopping myself from posting readslists every page because I wanted to have a readslist where I manually added names as they posted rather than a readslist where I copied the names from the OP and rearranged them, but I caved in when I saw a mention of 'random' and couldn't resist. The names not posting at that point were basically random, the names having posted tho were not.)

thinking about it, mastina, maybe you should put a reduction to the number of peeps who should visit you? Like, restrict it to half the PL or something, cuz i doubt we'd gain much worth from 4-5 of our powerful PRs taking a shot on you on the long term

also VOTE: alexandrite less talk more scrap

Are you caught up now? Cool. This message is for everyone but especially T3 and mastina.

Please don't catch up like that. I'm begging you.

good luck with this, esp with mastina

thinking about it, mastina, maybe you should put a reduction to the number of peeps who should visit you? Like, restrict it to half the PL or something, cuz i doubt we'd gain much worth from 4-5 of our powerful PRs taking a shot on you on the long term

also VOTE: alexandrite less talk more scrap

what does this mean

-Gamma

(also from this point on if there's a tag that isn't Gamma, Meg, Pearl, or Garnet, it's probably Yume)

what does this mean

honetly it doesn't mean anything

Are you caught up now? Cool. This message is for everyone but especially T3 and mastina.

Please don't catch up like that. I'm begging you.

They will not listen guaranteed

thinking about it, mastina, maybe you should put a reduction to the number of peeps who should visit you? Like, restrict it to half the PL or something, cuz i doubt we'd gain much worth from 4-5 of our powerful PRs taking a shot on you on the long term

also VOTE: alexandrite less talk more scrap

But how would that be determined? It’s not like we’re doing a mass claim on D1.

~Innuendos

just have mastina make an arbitrary way to separate things, if she's town we're good if she's scum we can prob read into the list she gives

statistically it would be hard for a random list to not contain any good PR

if anyone else needs me to tell them how to live their life just ask

Me next thanks. Give me the exact answer in my head and win a prize

Dwlee and Gyphx don't appear to be acknowledging the other exists.
Gyphx is engaging with Mastina, but they're tame questions so far.
While Dwlee doesn't appear to be acknowledging Mastina.

Those 2 scums being in the dead center of Mastina's reads though.
Tbh this is sort of atypical for Mastina, but given they haven't had much luck with their scum approach maybe they chose a more traditional scum reads list. It would be typical of anyone but Mastina to have that read's list as scum.

Neither Gyphx nor Dwlee have engaged with Ralts, but ralt's is fairly focused and there isn't much to talk to Ralts about currently.
I don't really think anyone has reached out to Ralts at this point because nothing they've done invites that engagement outside of who they acknowledge themselves. They're being their own gate keeper. Either intentionally or not.

-Bell

You can objectively uptick them as scum just by them repping out.

-Bell

Empirically, rather.

-Bell

I'm more interested in how people feel about Gyphx's posts towards Mastina.
I'm not sure if he's being cautious because they're scum together or if he's being cautious because he's super self-conscious and worried about getting caught by saying the wrong thing.

-Bell

well, it's true that this way of doing things lower the chances of having the best role visit (although that might not even be the case depending on the tiebreaker for multiple visits)

but like, generally, the 2nd / 3rd / even 4th best role are not gonna be significantly weaker than the very best

Anyone posting in the thread without explicitly discussing me and std is scum claiming

Okay who has scum claimed

well, it's true that this way of doing things lower the chances of having the best role visit (although that might not even be the case depending on the tiebreaker for multiple visits)

but like, generally, the 2nd / 3rd / even 4th best role are not gonna be significantly weaker than the very best

She said she default coppies first pr right? The obvious problem with that is if Mastina’s town, then if the most powerful pr visits her first, then we get double. Well, I would strongly suggest that any relatively weak prs, use their abilities elsewhere. This will ensure we get a double dose of strong tpr.

~I

Then it works in the way laid out in my role PM. Will claim that interaction if more folks think it's a good idea for me to.

I think you know the answer to the question of "should I give out this info?" better than anyone else besides the mods, and I think that, if you're town (and we feel pretty sure you are at this juncture), you shouldn't allow others' opinions to sway you too easily in case some of those opinions come from scum who are like, idk, hunting for powerful powers or something.

like, if it would be terrible for town to have too many people target you, that might be a circumstance in which you wanna fullclaim? But again, only you and the mods know that.

- q and b. we both contributed to this post. with our powers combined...???!?!?!

....yeah, still only one brain cell.

well, it's true that this way of doing things lower the chances of having the best role visit (although that might not even be the case depending on the tiebreaker for multiple visits)

but like, generally, the 2nd / 3rd / even 4th best role are not gonna be significantly weaker than the very best

She said she default coppies first pr right? The obvious problem with that is if Mastina’s town, then if the most powerful pr visits her first, then we get double. Well, I would strongly suggest that any relatively weak prs, use their abilities elsewhere. This will ensure we get a double dose of strong tpr.

~I

oh yeah, obviously

post socks

LOCKTOWN

Didn't mastina do like exactly this in ydrssal and get mod killed

Yo, will be back here to read and give reads later but for now just wanted to claim this;

I am a 1x reflexive role-copier

; I will get a one-shot copy of the first power to target me. So,

if you think your power is pretty damn strong especially if a second player can use it, you should target me N1

.

Reflexively don't believe this either. Or extremely misleading.

W/e

has Mastina changed her habit of never fake-claiming though?

Looking at mastina's claim, why are we speculating what happens if multiple roles target her? She already said she copies just the first one (according to resolution I'm assuming)

Gyphx is giving me material to work with, I just have no idea if what he's doing here is spewing Mastina or not. All I'm really getting is that he's being tentative. He's pushing back slightly by revealing true information about her. Which is in line with his earlier approach in the game a few pags ago. But is he caution preaching? Fact dumping in lieu of something better to do?

-Bell

every flipped replacement in this game is town so your statistics are garbage

This isn't how statistics work.

-Bell

What worries me most about mastina is she reads me as town in this game.

Town: Shea, maybe STD, slappykrew, esuriohydra

Scum: mastina, whemestar

I’ll be here all week thanks

Reading Mastina correctly in this game is super important considering her claim.

lol no

i'm fucking mareep you dolt

I CC this claim.

Now i retract.

CC again.

I don't understand this series of posts.
Was STD not genuinely counter claiming?

thinking about it, mastina, maybe you should put a reduction to the number of peeps who should visit you? Like, restrict it to half the PL or something, cuz i doubt we'd gain much worth from 4-5 of our powerful PRs taking a shot on you on the long term

also VOTE: alexandrite less talk more scrap

But how would that be determined? It’s not like we’re doing a mass claim on D1.

~Innuendos

Everyone decide whether your power is likely in the top 5 town powers. If no, don't target mastina.
If yes, generate a random number 1-100. If your random number is > 50 target mastina otherwise don't.

That should result in a few but not too many strong town powers targeting mastina without having to list their names publicly in advance.

Threshold can be adjusted according to how sure we want to be at least one town player targets mastina, and what proportion of players are likely to follow this approach vs ignore it.

F

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VOTE: STD

i can meat read std very well
coming soon

you thought you could get one past me calling it "meat" instead of meta but I'm onto you

Obligatory: i can meat read std very well

Uhh. Nothing really interesting happened here. Imaginality leaning into theory, acting sort of like a brick.

Did I mention that I have 9 days off of work which is why I'm spamming, or why I'm able to devote so much time to this,
I mean besides it being elo.
I feel like I did, but I want to mention that because I think Sircakez said it was weird or something that I was suddenly trying (it's actually not weird).

-Bell

Like, all I'm going to do is.

1. Make a narrative for Town & Scum, Pooky and Mastina.
2. Make a narrative for how each scum chose to present themselves and how that fits into their interactions with either of you.
3. Use all the time left going over all the posts to make that narrative.
4. Pick which one of you is more likely to be scum based on the narratives and then broken record ask you to cross vote each other and then make a case for one another.

@Mastina:
@Pooky:

Question for the day, ya'll have read death curse.
Ya'll have read Pooky versus Flavorleaf.

I know Mastina hasn't really had the opportunity to really dig into these recent posts.
But there's a pretty clear wall between what I'm capable of making myself do as town versus scum.

In death curse: I tried at the end.
In Pooky Versus FlavorLeaf: I promised to try at the end when I was cornered but it never materialized because I can't lie good.
Why can I suddenly lie good?

-Bell

I’m just over here voting scum

Y’all enjoy your wagon on town

Anyone posting in the thread without explicitly discussing me and std is scum claiming

Okay who has scum claimed

@TSQ

I have trained under miltank for many a year for this snark

ah yes not_mafia, the snarky scummer.


VOTE: TIL
lockscum

VOTE: TIL

You spelled town wrong.

~I

VOTE: SleepyKrew

VOTE: TIL

Town-
Shea
STD
T3
Brain Cell
Slappykrew
Wisdom
Cakeboy

is there anyone else in this game you'd attribute > random reads to?

micc

predit: yeah still jiving with tsq

Levels of engagement, genuine engagement with the game and I enjoy the old man screaming at clouds, and cake has found stuff to pounce on and chase which is prob town from him

@fire

Unofficial VC

With 21 alive, it takes 11 to eliminate someone

Save The Dragons (4) -

Thestatusquo, Woolax, chowchow, Sharing the Brain Cell

Sharing the Brain Cell (4):

SirCakez, Firebringer, Whemestar, Wisdom

Milobird (3):

Kitty Trauma Team, imaginality, Save The Dragons

Firebringer (2) -

Ralts, Alexandrite

Truth Innuendo Lies (2) -

SleepyKrew, Dwlee99

SirCakez (1) -

mastina

Alexandrite (1) -

Gypyx

Whemestar (1):

Milobird

Not Voting (3) :

T3, The Goat, Truth Innuendo Lies

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-10-13 21:30:00)

did u ask this thinking it would help u read TIL?

yeah, its something I'd like to file away and probably come back to later.

If this is to me. it’s based off of experience playing with both Wisdom and Hectic

yes, the question was to you. can you answer it?

micc

Save The Dragons is the only leading wagon I understand at this point. Haven't seen a case to the Brain Cell or Milobird votes.

Firebringer had some votes but the wagon quickly died off. Not interested in voting there.
the brief chowchow wagon was fine. I don't see voting people who are strictly here to meme as productive, but I am generally on board to policy lim them sooner rather than later.

nancy not answering the questing is kinda irritating but very much in line with what I'd expect.

micc

I'm WIFOMing myself here, but I do wonder if scum would be this obstinate about continuing to do the blatantly anti-town thing.

and then that most recent post.

hmm.

yeah okay whatever back to this for now

VOTE: STD

-q

well, to be fair, pretty sure that gimmick isn't even alignement indicative right ? besides that's like 5 posts into the doggo guy's ISO at the time you're saying this, that's barely even callable as an iso lol

VOTE: braincell

unrelated to my previous quote btw, just realized

shea I danced for you are you going to respond to that

sorry prolly not

damn wish I saw this before I changed my vote

Then why didn't you change your vote back?

Micc: Doing the bare minimum. I shall post about all of the events currently. I shall state my opinions on them and then I shall go on lunch break and do it again. Lunch break scum. They're actually kind of contentless here. I should've had more red flags based on that. I was mostly waiting for the worst to post since I know they hate being scum. But I don't think they ever did.
Gyphx: still doing the reasonable shtick.

The whole scum team is ignoring each other and not even throwing soft ball questions at each other. The only exception so far might be Gyphx.

-Bell

-Bell

What makes you think Wisdom is a scumread of mine?

Wheme is based off his (lack of) engagement with the game- all he’s successfully done is Shit posted despite there being plenty to dig into. I’m unimpressed by mastinas readslist, but this could change with more from her.

Now that I’ve acknowledged it’s not wisdom- who do you think my third is?

Ninja-
Aye matey, ye should know how slippery I be. It be from covering meself in moss off the starboard bow.

VC1.02

With 21 alive, it takes 11 to eliminate someone

Firebringer (1):

Ralts

Save The Dragons (5):

Thestatusquo, Sharing the Brain Cell, Woolax, chowchow, SleepyKrew

Milobird (3):

Kitty Trauma Team, imaginality, Save The Dragons

Sharing the Brain Cell (6):

SirCakez, Firebringer, Whemestar, Wisdom, Gypyx, Truth innuendos Lies

Alexandrite (1):

Gypyx

Truth Innuendos Lies (2):

SleepyKrew, Dwlee99

Not Voting:

T3, Alexandrite, The Goat, mastina

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-10-13 21:30:00)

Mod Notes: The Goat has yet to confirm
Please feel free to ask for further clarification regarding your role if you're confused.
Sample rolecard added to OP
Not counting 329

while i'm certainely glad to have doublevoter status, i think i'm fine with my vote on Alexandrite being removed

Yeah if we could not publicly decoder ring crumbs that would be great?

ive never understood this because scum are going to do it. also i kind of think its a joke because is "wood" really a crumb....knowing mastina it probably is but w/e

what does this mean

honetly it doesn't mean anything

This open admission also probably comes from town.

thinking about it, mastina, maybe you should put a reduction to the number of peeps who should visit you? Like, restrict it to half the PL or something, cuz i doubt we'd gain much worth from 4-5 of our powerful PRs taking a shot on you on the long term

also VOTE: alexandrite less talk more scrap

But how would that be determined? It’s not like we’re doing a mass claim on D1.

~Innuendos

just have mastina make an arbitrary way to separate things, if she's town we're good if she's scum we can prob read into the list she gives

statistically it would be hard for a random list to not contain any good PR

I've never played with town Gypyx but this doesn't particularly feel like scum gypyx.

Not to be mean but basically my experience in games I've played with/observed of town mastina I'll just take her town Poe and eliminate all of them and win the game.

Lets put these pokemon into boxes for storage:
pokemon im carrying around: (i cant trust these people to be town and wont wipe in nuzlocke)
TheStatusQuo, T3, Save The Dragons

Pokemon in Box 1 (the backups. People im feeling okay about or don't want to worry about)
Whemestar, Wisdom, Milobird, mastina

Pokemon in Box 2 (the third string. People who i know exist but are like just there)
dwlee99, imaginality, alexandrite, Ralts, Gypx, Woolax, Cakez

Pokemon in Box 3 (never picked. People i want to grill or trade to another trainer)
The Goat, SleepyKrew, Sharing the Brain Cell, Kitty Trauma Team, Truth Innuendo Lies, ChowChow

i feel like theres always at least one scum who speculates on game mechanics instead of actually interacting with the game. TIL could be that scum

Your read on me apparently hasn’t improved since Doubles.

~I

Good thing a bad read has never stopped me from continuing to play. I would have stopped playing long ago

VOTE: Sharing the brain cell

STD and milo I both think are town

MALA COME BACK I WAS PLAYING LEAGUE

also your vote is bad pls fix and vote wheme

You guys have no idea how much Notty was fixating on the fact Mala wasn't interacting with him. >.> He just town binned them in the end though before they cleared themselves and made it mute. >.>

Yeah, after Iso'ing Gyphx, I pretty much agree that Gyphx is obvscum this game.

Why isn't he dead yet?

-Bell

-Bell

It's not like I can't point out the flaws in every argument you make. We've both played mafia a lot and are excellent at arguing.
Hah, okay, neither of us are actually good at arguing, but you know what I mean.
We're at home arguing with people and arguing about stuff that's barely coherent.

Like for example, you keep asking me why I'm trying to do a song and dance. But you've never considered if you're town that it's just me trying to solve, that there are a million other approaches I could be doing that would be less time intensive and less soul sucking because you know I hate being scum, so why would I want to subject myself to more of it here. Because you have a case on mastina town, somewhere. This is a point against you. There are a lot of points against you.
You're frictionless except for the player you want to kill,
while we're the opposite of that and it should be a pretty clear sign which of us is scum tbh. You're just trying to win I can respect that.
But I'd like to just check my corners and think about it and then make a nice little narrative and bow as to who's scum and why and who is town and why.
I enjoy doing that.
I don't enjoy doing that as scum. >.> Literally everyone including you knows this.

-Bell

I won't lie, half the time I'm just so dumbfounded by what you're saying that I don't even know where to start correcting you, but I think rather than you just having sudden comprehension issues, you're just probably scum.

But I wanna go back and do it the way I like solving. I mean there's a reason I'm a waffler and it's not because I'm confident in myself. It takes a lot for me to be comfortable in my own reads. I never really feel like I'm trying to understand until elo actually just because there's so much data and the choices are so narrow that it feels like I can finally have a chance to comprehend it.

-Bell

VOTE: gypyx
he pinged me early so I'm very down for this wagon

-Gamma

thinking about it, mastina, maybe you should put a reduction to the number of peeps who should visit you? Like, restrict it to half the PL or something, cuz i doubt we'd gain much worth from 4-5 of our powerful PRs taking a shot on you on the long term

I mean the problem with that is, the only way we'd have to know who should be the PR targeting me is if we had a D1 massclaim--with that obviously being something we shouldn't do, that means we have no way of coordinating it. We don't know who the best person to target me would be. And we have no way of limiting the number of players targeting me, either.

So my solution was just to leave it to the PRs in question, that if they think their role is strong especially with a second person getting a 1x copy of it, to have them target me.

has Mastina changed her habit of never fake-claiming though?

Nope!

Didn't mastina do like exactly this in ydrssal and get mod killed

I've made my stance on that modkill being bullshit quite clear.

Anyone posting in the thread without explicitly discussing me and std is scum claiming

Actually I'd say it's closer to the opposite.

I am aware that both you and STD are experienced enough scum players to make a SvS or SvT fight look TvT, HOWEVER:
I think you are town by your posting;
I think STD is town by his posting;
I think the fight between you and STD looks town on both ends;
I think the people who have said the fight is TvT directly are, overall, a group

more

likely to contain scum rather than less.

I am aware that both you and STD are experienced enough scum players to make a SvS or SvT fight look TvT, HOWEVER:
I think you are town by your posting;
I think STD is town by his posting;
I think the fight between you and STD looks town on both ends;

I think the people who have said the fight is TvT directly are, overall, a group more likely to contain scum rather than less.

That conclusion seems backwards given the sentences before this.

Did anyone in this group catch your eye?

I don’t like her readslist.

I admit I'm not happy about the amount of nulls and I'm not happy how weak my townreads are.

However, I am actually

quite

confident in my scumreads.

imaginality
T3
SirCakez

I talked about imaginality already, but my thoughts on T3 were immediately that this looked like T3's scum meta rather than his town meta. I'm not positive, obviously, so I'm less sure of T3 being scum than I was, but I'm still leaning scum meta more than town meta.

As for SirCakez?

I wasn't joking when I said that I legitimately, genuinely, think that SirCakez is just scum this game. I think this is SirCakez's scum meta as literally every post of his is screaming "this is SirCakez as scum". But beyond the generic things, I can actually point you to something more specific that I found highly damning:

VOTE: wisdom
let's murder him before he gets back from V/LA

VOTE: SirCakez
Even though I'm not scumreading this opening (not townreading it either but not scumreading it, is null), SirCakez draws scum in 100% of his games it seems so we may as well save him the misery of another scumgame and vote him out.

fuck this is like Peta and I's dynamic

If SirCakez were town, the response from my post saying "he's always scum so we may as well vote him out" I would expect to be: " ", or maybe " ".
Though not as town as he could do it as scum as well, it could even have ben "lol".

It's something that, if SirCakez were town, I'd expect him to take in good humor, laugh along, and find amusing.

But this response was basically dead serious, and the dead serious treatment of the "SirCakez is always scum", rather than treating it in good humor, is what makes me think that SirCakez is scum here.

So my vote there is dead serious.

Yo, will be back here to read and give reads later but for now just wanted to claim this;

I am a 1x reflexive role-copier

; I will get a one-shot copy of the first power to target me. So,

if you think your power is pretty damn strong especially if a second player can use it, you should target me N1

.

hmmmmmm

This seems like a good time to mention I'm back to thinking T3's scum by meta.

Milobird
Save the Dragons
Firebringer
Thestatusquo
Wisdom

Truth Innuendos Lies
Sharing the Brain Cell

WhemeStar
Kitty Trauma Team
Dwlee99
Ralts

Alexandrite
The Goat
Gypyx
chowchow
Woolax
SleepyKrew

imaginality

T3
SirCakez

Yo, will be back here to read and give reads later but for now just wanted to claim this;

I am a 1x reflexive role-copier

; I will get a one-shot copy of the first power to target me. So,

if you think your power is pretty damn strong especially if a second player can use it, you should target me N1

.

Reflexively don't believe this either. Or extremely misleading.

W/e

mastina doesn't fakeclaim

Like ever?

I thought her claim could've been a PGO ploy given how she doesn't seem willing to narrow down the list of people who should target her, even though her role presumably can only copy one other role.

but if this is actually true, mastina should be out of the d1 lim pool.

never ever

- Wooper

is "wood" really a crumb....knowing mastina it probably is but w/e

Wood

n't you like to know.

I think T3 is town now.

I don't. T3's posts just are lacking something to them. The content within is fine, it's just that the content is just...lacking something that T3 has as town.

Nancy how do you feel about me
What if i told you std is town

UNVOTE:

I tr you.

~I

Can you go into your thought process here? You thought STD was scummy and a couple of your townreads were also voting there. Why is Wisdom's post enough to override that?

I am aware that both you and STD are experienced enough scum players to make a SvS or SvT fight look TvT, HOWEVER:
I think you are town by your posting;
I think STD is town by his posting;
I think the fight between you and STD looks town on both ends;

I think the people who have said the fight is TvT directly are, overall, a group more likely to contain scum rather than less.

That conclusion seems backwards given the sentences before this.
Did anyone in this group catch your eye?

It's not backwards, because in a TvT fight the scum are more likely going to say "this fight is TvT" and do nothing about it--I realize I didn't work to defuse it, and I realize there could be and will be town who similarly didn't work to defuse it, but I still think that there would be scum who just called it TvT and did nothing about it.

I'd need to go back to that section of the game to check for the names more likely to be scum calling it TvT tho.

This whole thing is interesting.

751 Once again, could probably figure out whether this is scum talking to scum or not if I were better. It's sort of just Mastina's lecture mode. Which is usually her default interaction style. I've never really gone indepth with how she talks to her scum partners in game.

Ralts comes in and points out that Mastina might be contradicting herself, but she predictably bowls right over this.
There's something a little funny about her using the adverbs, legitimately and genuinely to describe her suspicions of Sircakez here. I'm not sure they would place so much emphasis on this if they were actually scum. It's kind of on the nose.
She points to one thing that she found "highly damning" which I'm not sure she'd ever post as scum either. It's also a little bit sooner than is typical for scum mastina to start biting down on someone. But scheduling maybe.

Woolax just kind of pops in at the periphery to make a side comment. I guess they either don't know how to engage or just wanna make a snide post. I mean snide in a nice way. Er, if there is such a thing. It's mildly humorous.

Aside: I have no idea how to tell the difference between a TVT, TVS, SVS fight. Mostly I just interfere if it's partiuclarly toxic and I feel safe doing so and the timing is okay. Sometimes I just can't be assed, other times I feel like I've been invited or at least feel safe judging an interaction and can make a pot saying that the interaction isn't helpful without worrying about it.

-Bell

Ralts is sort of inconsistency hunting.
mmm

-Bell

fb Nancy is town

Put her in the first boxes with me

How is Gyphx not dead yet, iso him.
Seriously.

-Bell

fb Nancy is town

Put her in the first boxes with me

How is Gyphx not dead yet, iso him.
Seriously.

-Bell

Can you elaborate on this? I'll concede my read on Gypyx is mostly a gut feeling, so it would be great to know if you've got anything more concrete.

Unless it's meta. I'm not jumping down rabbit holes trying to meta a fuckton of people I don't know.

- B.

PEDIT: T3 is a leanscum too but I think my confidence goes STD >> Whemestar >>>>> Gypyx >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> T3.

Not really sold on StD, but aside from that, I vibe with these reads.

Er, it's day 1. All you have is gut.

And my gut tells me that I will never ever let Gyphx live this game. Do it now because I won't ever shut up about this until he flips red or flips green and I accuse the moderator of lying.

-Bell

VOTE: Gyphx

It's not backwards, because in a TvT fight the scum are more likely going to say "this fight is TvT" and do nothing about it--I realize I didn't work to defuse it, and I realize there could be and will be town who similarly didn't work to defuse it, but I still think that there would be scum who just called it TvT and did nothing about it.

I'd need to go back to that section of the game to check for the names more likely to be scum calling it TvT tho.

I think ignoring it and doing something else is another way of defusing, but I don't think it's necessary to harp on this point. I'm more interested in seeing what names you come up with!

Also I too got TvT vibes from TSQ and STD's posting

Wait but didn't you vote std?

Nope

pedit: I'll vote when I'm all caught up. I'm in the early 20s

VOTE: Gyphx

Yo bell come talk to me. Can I please get some words so i can maybe at least take a look at your meta read on my own?

is the goat an alt of someone

VOTE: Gyphx

Yo bell come talk to me. Can I please get some words so i can maybe at least take a look at your meta read on my own?

Gyphx auto pilots as scum and needs an entire team of committed mafia players to keep him afloat.
Prolly not happening here.

Ergo he's scum because his tone is lifeless, his posts stringy and full of phlegm. Gyphx town is focused after the jokes.
He's meandering here and letting the world pass him by.

-Bell

I do not like that Ralts ignores the Gyphx conversation here.
This is a point against them. Everyone else pays attention. Ralts pretends it doesn't exist.

-Bell

No, putting them in a line with 4 other reads does not count as acknowledging the conversation.

-Bell

Whelp. I said my piece.
It's up to you if you wanna vote him or not.

*shrug*

-Bell

Ok but did you think that interaction felt that way?

VOTE: Gyphx

I feel like I usually have stronger reads by now but this is fine.

Ok but did you think that interaction felt that way?

Your discussion with them isn't deep enough for me to hesitate.

-Bell

This list is roughly what I'm working off of:

Town

Milo, TSQ, Alexandrite
Brain Cell, Wisdom, StD, mastina
Everyone else
SleepyKrew, Wheme, TIL
Gypyx, T3

Scum

Not the worst group to be in

Gamma is one of the few people I can metaread. I've played with him a lot, and I feel pretty good about his posting and tone here.

*takes of sunglasses*

Is sircakez finally town?

*pokes him to see if he's real*

-Bell

@Thanks mod friend.

Gamma is one of the few people I can metaread. I've played with him a lot, and I feel pretty good about his posting and tone here.

any specific posts u want to call attention to

*takes of sunglasses*

Is sircakez finally town?

*pokes him to see if he's real*

-Bell

@Thanks mod friend.

Welcome to like 5 pages ago

I like Ralts readslist despite disagreeing witH 3 of his scumpool.

but i have no strong opinions on u either so im not gonna sit here and complain about being null

If it makes you feel better, it's not that I haven't noticed you, but rather I'm not sure how to sort you.

And it's more of a general vibe that Gamma's happy to be here. Content wise, I guess I liked his vote on Gypyx.

Spoiler: A couple of tonally towny Gamma posts

Gahahaha I got post 151!

-Gamma

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE

haven't you ever seen full metal alchemist before?

VILE FIEND
VOTE: SAVE THE DRAGONS

-Gamma

Which 3?

TIL ehh admittedly my weakest scumlean in the bottom tiers, but their vote on StD and subsequent unvote gave me the impression that they didn't have that much conviction in their vote/reads. Possibly a pocketing attempt too now that I think about it.

SleepyKrew off the top of my head I don't recall what he's done except nitpick at other people's playstyles.

T3 is mostly there for anti mindmeld.

I spoke too soon, they do acknowledge the existence of suspicion on Gyphx with these posts and vote them. But they do not directly contribute to this conversation. Instead they start conversing with others about others.

The perspective on 824 is odd. It shows a wide range, that they're paying attention, but their focus what they're actually commenting about is non-committal. Their strongest reasoned stance if Gamma, but they don't comment on us, just put us at the top of the town pile. I don't even think they've interacted with us, even though Notty acknowledged them.

I can't really tell if they're spreading their feelers/branching out as scum and weak sauce bussing, while positioning themselves after a possible Gyphx flip or not. Though they continue their trend of always being 3rd~4th vote on a player and hiding behind the reasoning of others.

-Bell

-Bell

There's also a trend of Ralts continuing to be polite scum. Always massaging other people's egos, "if it makes you feel better", "not the worst group to be in", etc.
It's non-confrontational, but could just be their personality.

-Bell

mmm. 6 minutes after my post is their first post and they acknowledge the Gyphx pressure without asking about it or saying much about it an hour later, just voting them. It's entirely possible they're just spending that entire hour weighing whether it would be natural for them to bus there and what they would like to do with it. Ultimately they just took the normal newbie route. 'I can't ignore this, but I don't want to add to it. Let me make a reads list. I'm feeling the pressure let me start talking to others and build some influence because the game is sort of getting away from us.'

-Bell

Hi kuribo! Could I interest you in a gypyx wagon?

So many pages happened

TSQ are you still on STD

It kind of feels like you've been weirdly me focused this game dwlee. Do you have thoughts and questions for the other players in the game?

I am aware that both you and STD are experienced enough scum players to make a SvS or SvT fight look TvT, HOWEVER:
I think you are town by your posting;
I think STD is town by his posting;
I think the fight between you and STD looks town on both ends;
I think the people who have said the fight is TvT directly are, overall, a group

more

likely to contain scum rather than less.

so you're more likely to be scum according to your own words?



edit while reading further : yeah okay saw your answer to ralts, not a huge fan of admitting that you yourself are scummy but like i don't know how to play mafia so idk

thinking about it, mastina, maybe you should put a reduction to the number of peeps who should visit you? Like, restrict it to half the PL or something, cuz i doubt we'd gain much worth from 4-5 of our powerful PRs taking a shot on you on the long term

I mean the problem with that is, the only way we'd have to know who should be the PR targeting me is if we had a D1 massclaim--with that obviously being something we shouldn't do, that means we have no way of coordinating it. We don't know who the best person to target me would be. And we have no way of limiting the number of players targeting me, either.

So my solution was just to leave it to the PRs in question, that if they think their role is strong especially with a second person getting a 1x copy of it, to have them target me.

yeah but the problem is like, if we have 4-5 of our most powerful roles stack up on ya (which seems quite like a realistic thing to occur given the openeness of what could happen), it probably won't be of much worth in the end, because we essentially trade 3-4 night actions in exchange for hoping you're town and will use those well, see what i mean?

I'm scared if i talk about people town reading me that they will stop town reading me
I legit play my town games like scum half the time because I get miselimmed so much

well, if you're scared to the point of "deep anxiety" or sumthin' then how come you're talking about it like that without

feels less like a preemptive apology (which eh, i guess it would be worth a slight townlean) and more like you're trying to publically project what your town mindset would be

I say this with love Gyphx.

-Bell

*grumbles.

-Bell.

Bell, bell, bell.

ya no worries, see what you mean there, altho it's been 3 months since i haven't had a real game of mafia, so i dunno, seems like pretty outdated meta to me?

Yeah. Still haven't seen a reason why any of his reaction to me was town.

Damn, thought maybe something in all those pages changed your mind

It kind of feels like you've been weirdly me focused this game dwlee. Do you have thoughts and questions for the other players in the game?

You're always around when I check the game. To have more thoughts I feel like I need to do more than skim the past few pages or just wait for more stuff to happen. Gypyx had the same reaction to that mastina post as me when I read the quote which is good

-snip-

yeah but the problem is like, if we have 4-5 of our most powerful roles stack up on ya (which seems quite like a realistic thing to occur given the openeness of what could happen), it probably won't be of much worth in the end, because we essentially trade 3-4 night actions in exchange for hoping you're town and will use those well, see what i mean?

The approach I proposed in #503 would avoid that issue.

-snip-

yeah but the problem is like, if we have 4-5 of our most powerful roles stack up on ya (which seems quite like a realistic thing to occur given the openeness of what could happen), it probably won't be of much worth in the end, because we essentially trade 3-4 night actions in exchange for hoping you're town and will use those well, see what i mean?

The approach I proposed in #503 would avoid that issue.

My response to this plan is who cares

that mastina post

752 btw

I don't like Gypyx and Ralts jumping on mastina's comment about the people who see TSQ v STD as TvT being more likely scum than not.

It seemed like deliberately reading the comment in the worst way.

Ralts raised it as a question whereas Gypyx continued to paint it as though mastina was calling herself scummy even after reading mastina's reply to Ralts. Which, like, I don't see why Gypyx bothers to post that as town, but as scum it is a chance to splash a bit of dirt on someone.

VOTE: Gypyx

On STD v TSQ my initial take was slightly suspicious of STD and pro town on TSQ. Someone mentioned TSQ plays like that as scum also so that tempers my town read slightly but I still like his side of it. Still figuring out how I feel about the STD side of it. I didn't see the initial post as scummy but the initial reaction to TSQ's pressure did feel a bit hmmm... Like, I didn't like the retrofitting 'oh but look at the reactions I generated' part of the conversation. However there was also a hint of confused 'what are you on about'-ness to it.

Interesting also at Gypyx defended STD against TSQ early in that debate.

Oh cool add Dwlee99 to Gypyx and Ralts on the pile of "scum shiftily sniffing for stuff to stir up so as to subtly scatter some sneaky suspicion on seemingly stand-up citizens"

I like Imaginality for town I think

I don't think Gypyx is scummy but eh, not objecting either

846 Imaginality is nightmare fuel. He pushes Ralts and Gyphx, but votes Gyphx. Both Ralts and Gyphx latch unto Mastina saying they're acting scummy. Gyphx pushes Mastina while also discrediting himself by saying he sucks. He is, in effect, doing exactly what imaginality said, Gyphx is shading Mastina. But why. Why bring it up at all. Why Poke at town Ralts, but vote Gyphx? Are they setting them up for a miselim later? Why is Gyphx jumping on Mastina's comment, which is an absurdly low hanging fruit if they're partners? Are they trying to call it out for cred later, or damage minimizing? Does Gyphx focus on interacting with his scum partner more than pretty much any other player in the game?


-Bell

Dwlee is largely doing nothing, they're totally contentless at this point.

Imaginality is a weird player.
I still can't decide whether Gyphx would be interacting with Mastina this much if they were scum together. Rather, whether that's relevant or an easy fix. Gyphx used kid gloves with pretty much everyone, so it's difficult to tell. If he's pulling his punches for Mastina specifically or if he's just trying not to stand out by taking significant stances.


-Bell

Oh cool add Dwlee99 to Gypyx and Ralts on the pile of "scum shiftily sniffing for stuff to stir up so as to subtly scatter some sneaky suspicion on seemingly stand-up citizens"

Wtf is this?

I don't like Gypyx and Ralts jumping on mastina's comment about the people who see TSQ v STD as TvT being more likely scum than not.

It seemed like deliberately reading the comment in the worst way.

Ralts raised it as a question whereas Gypyx continued to paint it as though mastina was calling herself scummy even after reading mastina's reply to Ralts. Which, like, I don't see why Gypyx bothers to post that as town, but as scum it is a chance to splash a bit of dirt on someone.

Well, look, got a personal theory that scum are quite more likely than town to admit they did the sussy, cuz like, obviously they

know

they aren't innocent, especially in cases where it's like "yeah doing that is bad, i know i did it but pls bear with me"

and on the question of posting it, i saw the first message, wrote it, then saw her developping on it, and even though that kinda puts it into perspetive as something widespread, still thought it was notable enuff to br pointed out

plus i took like 5 good minutes to get that gif link working so i wasn't gonna let it good to waste lmao

also imaginality if you could tell the difference between sharing reads and being a devilish scum drawing attention to town's scummy posts

Oh cool add Dwlee99 to Gypyx and Ralts on the pile of "scum shiftily sniffing for stuff to stir up so as to subtly scatter some sneaky suspicion on seemingly stand-up citizens"

Who am I casting suspicion on here exactly?

I'm scared if i talk about people town reading me that they will stop town reading me
I legit play my town games like scum half the time because I get miselimmed so much

well, if you're scared to the point of "deep anxiety" or sumthin' then how come you're talking about it like that without

feels less like a preemptive apology (which eh, i guess it would be worth a slight townlean) and more like you're trying to publically project what your town mindset would be

That is exactly what I was doing lol

??

what is the "that"

Publicly projecting my town mindset so people understand me better

aaah

i wasn't thinking you'd go and say that tbh lol, i meant this as more a bad thing like, scum!you is emulating it

interesting that you didn't connect the dots here

Whelp. That "WTF is this" 856 is going to be going back and forth in my brain for the next week.
There aren't a huge number of ways to interpret that. It just sounds like he's pissed that Imaginality is shading his buddies.

-Bell

Oh cool add Dwlee99 to Gypyx and Ralts on the pile of "scum shiftily sniffing for stuff to stir up so as to subtly scatter some sneaky suspicion on seemingly stand-up citizens"

Wtf is this?

Also check it.
You might not realize it now, but this is actually the key where all was revealed.

-Bell

If you guys would like me to keep going though like I said I would, I'm fine with that.
I just think Dwlee slipped and you can't really blame him with the shit Imaginality was pulling.

-Bell

NGL, I kind of want to keep going though. Just because of some bs my solve finished early.
I know that, arguably it doesn't really look like it.
But that's pretty much what he did and it's *fairly* obvious.

Also, I don't think Gyphx focuses on talking to Mastina or shading them as much if they were scum partners because Gyphx is in bad scum player jail.

I should really try and put all of this together into a narrative though.

-Bell

Happy thanksgiving everyone.

Also,
I don't know why but Notty thinks you're going to fuck up.
I'm still here ready to lay out my life story so that this doesn't happen.

Please read my posts. It's not just fighting with Pooky.

I think the narrative that Imaginality put all three of his buddies into a pile and Dwlee snapped and wrote "Wtf is this" to be fairly persuasive evidence.
I do not think they discussed this before hand. Note how all the scum buddies studiously ignore each other for the most part. Dwlee broke from that approach in a moment of genuine annoyance.

Like I said I'm more than happy to keep going if you don't think my analysis was enough. I can go over the whole game (well, I can't because of how slow going it is) but I can go over as much as I can if you want, I'd even enjoy it.

Spoiler: Pooky

Adding to the pile of evidence, if Flavorleaf can't save me from my shit scum game Notty sure can't. You almost certainly know this, I am working on trying to learn to lie better, but it's going to take a lot of time. .

-Bell

Just believe that you can read Bell and that he didn't become a grandmaster scum player in one single game where he suddenly broke through his inability to fake solve.
This isn't actually that hard. I left my scum range behind. I can point out everything that Pooky is doing right now and demonstrate that it doesn't come from a solving mind set, his excuse that he's already decided who it is, doesn't even make sense. He's a much more cautious bear as town as much as he likes to bluster outwardly. This isn't a cautious bear. He's showing zero nervousness or hesitation.
Ask yourselves why everyone else is but he isn't.
See also, Mastina death curse at the end, I might be a one note player, but it's a good note in elo. I've basically used the same method of trying to solve using the entire scum team and not just looking at Pooky alone. This is incredibly difficult to fake. You should all be aware of this.

I'm not a good liar.
Pooky is. Pooky has the motivation to shoot Gyphx. I already explained the Petapan story. Pooky wants this win. He wants a story to tell.

-Bell

It should probably be noted that any revenge you think I deserve willl pale in comparison to the sheer depth of my misread if you're actually town.
I have a bad feeling I will feel awful for literal days if I'm wrong here.

-Bell

I don't like Gypyx and Ralts jumping on mastina's comment about the people who see TSQ v STD as TvT being more likely scum than not.

It seemed like deliberately reading the comment in the worst way.

Ralts raised it as a question whereas Gypyx continued to paint it as though mastina was calling herself scummy even after reading mastina's reply to Ralts. Which, like, I don't see why Gypyx bothers to post that as town, but as scum it is a chance to splash a bit of dirt on someone.

Well, look, got a personal theory that scum are quite more likely than town to admit they did the sussy, cuz like, obviously they

know

they aren't innocent, especially in cases where it's like "yeah doing that is bad, i know i did it but pls bear with me"

and on the question of posting it, i saw the first message, wrote it, then saw her developping on it, and even though that kinda puts it into perspetive as something widespread, still thought it was notable enuff to br pointed out

plus i took like 5 good minutes to get that gif link working so i wasn't gonna let it good to waste lmao

This is a weird post, I'm not sure how to interpret it. Would someone like to help?

also imaginality if you could tell the difference between sharing reads and being a devilish scum drawing attention to town's scummy posts

See, this is just a wry post. But it lays bare some of the deficiencies he has when interacting with his partners (though, there really isn't an easy way to interact with a partner that shades your entire team)

Oh cool add Dwlee99 to Gypyx and Ralts on the pile of "scum shiftily sniffing for stuff to stir up so as to subtly scatter some sneaky suspicion on seemingly stand-up citizens"

Who am I casting suspicion on here exactly?

Push back.

I'm scared if i talk about people town reading me that they will stop town reading me
I legit play my town games like scum half the time because I get miselimmed so much

well, if you're scared to the point of "deep anxiety" or sumthin' then how come you're talking about it like that without

feels less like a preemptive apology (which eh, i guess it would be worth a slight townlean) and more like you're trying to publically project what your town mindset would be

That is exactly what I was doing lol

??

what is the "that"

Publicly projecting my town mindset so people understand me better

aaah

i wasn't thinking you'd go and say that tbh lol, i meant this as more a bad thing like, scum!you is emulating it

interesting that you didn't connect the dots here

shea I danced for you are you going to respond to that

sorry prolly not

damn wish I saw this before I changed my vote

Then why didn't you change your vote back?

I think scum imaginality would be shading people left and right from what I’ve seen with him so he gets a tow read.

I have only played one game with Imaginality where he was town in OMB but not sure why you sr him?

193 - says nothing
197 - seems forced
487 - says nothing
503 - could be either alignment
670 - could be shade on a townie (yes i know i have SK as scum) there's no follow through
671 - says nothing
717 - says nothing
843 - could be either alignment
846 - could be scum jumping on the wagon, could be town seeing a problem with gypyx sure. this post puts some doubt into my read.
847 - throws shade around, but mostly says nothing

mostly gut at this point tbh

I feel bad for missing this post, because I think this spews him as town after imaginality flipped. I should have at least wrestled with it.

is anyone complaining about ur posts being long

@brain, why do so many of your posts have so many words and

so little content

?

This is kind’ve a misrep. If was going to complain about post length, I’d be referencing Mastina. My issue was with the actual content per words. Mastina’s posts are long but they’re full of content.

Since I think it’s extremely obvious what my point actually was, I want to know why you’re framing it as me “complaining” about post length.

~I

shea I danced for you are you going to respond to that

sorry prolly not

damn wish I saw this before I changed my vote

Then why didn't you change your vote back?

I think scum imaginality would be shading people left and right from what I’ve seen with him so he gets a tow read.

Isn't this exactly what imaginality did to me :upside-down:

Informed post.

Milobird (notscience + Bell)
imaginality
Alexandrite (MegAzumarill+Gamma Emerald+Yume)
Whemestar
The Goat
chowchow (Anonymous Hydra)
mastina
Truth Innuendo Lies (Nancy Drew + Marashu + Auro)
Kitty Trauma Team (kuribo + Malakittens)
Ralts
SirCakez
Woolax (wooper + Micc)
Sharing the Brain Cell (esurio + Anonymous )
Firebringer

T3 make a PoE and we can intersect them?

cutting large post.

I still scumread the post.

Why? This is one of the posts I like the most in their ISO.

DWLEE IS PLAYING VERY STRONGLY TOWARDS HIS TOWN META

What's his town meta

See, Ralts asks about this, but ignores me when I talk about Gyphx. It's a change in approach and treatment. It looks like they want T3 to extoll the virtues of Dwlee town meta because they're: 1. Morbidly curious at how wrong they could be.
2. Want them to plant their feet if their buddy ever flips. But they don't directly remark or ask me questions on Gyphx because they don't want me to build a case on them. The difference in treatment is pretty stark.

Mastina, are you going to be generally active this game?

-Lies

-Bell

Sorry I have not been here
I would rep out but it does not feel fair to leave at this stage

No need, no rush.
I just feel like I'm screaming into the aether. I think Mastina is the only one reading my posts.

-Bell

why did you guys want to kill me on day 8 but need to solve for my aligment on day 9?

Pooky, remember when I said there was stuff I was sort of flabbergasted you were saying because I didn't know where to begin.
One of those is this argument.

I'll lay it out.

1. I said I would kill both of you. If I solved for you then why wasn't I voting for you day 8? *I haven't actually read what you're specifically referring to* but obviously I didn't solve for you given I was going back and forth on you and mastina last day phase. I've also repeatedly said I was checking my corners. This hasn't actually changed, beyond starting to lean toward murdering you.
2.I will always ask the other two players to cross vote each other. There are a ton of benefits and almost no draws backs for me.
Such as: I don't have to argue with both players and can focus more on solving for the remaining player. The two players will change behaviors and will have to act out the realization that they're voting the remaining scum and then have to build a case to kill the other player. Which helps me, because I can try to see if they're coming off genuine or not.
3. I can literally always be wrong, because, ultimately, *I don't know who the scums are* this is a common refrain I make when someone asks me who is scum. I could be wrong. What would help me be less likely to be wrong? Change the state so that the two players are facing off, maybe they're good at playing in *this* game state, but are more awkward in *that game state*


-Bell

Why do you keep spacing out your posts and texts. Are you trying to make your posts look bigger than they actually are

-Bell

Pretty confident mastina is just scum here.

Meta meta meta meta

Mastina could be scum cause she thinks I'm town

Mastina could be scum cause she thinks I'm town

Oh? Is that a read you’ve developed across multiple games?

Is that… meta?

Nope

What's your point
If I was scum emulating it then why would I even bring it up

because you think that's how town you would act?

i think i'm kinda not finding anymore stuff that's really readable without twisting my brain through 10 layers of interpretation so like, i'll drop the convo there if you're fine with it

second paragraph was about the back and forth with cake obv

Gypyx posted something early on that felt scummy, but I’m going to do a reread. Hyperskimming 35 pages didn’t give me much.

btw got any updates on that "something"?

What's your point
If I was scum emulating it then why would I even bring it up

because you think that's how town you would act?

i think i'm kinda not finding anymore stuff that's really readable without twisting my brain through 10 layers of interpretation so like, i'll drop the convo there if you're fine with it

okay

yeah mastina being absent is ugly
984 stirred my brain on that topic

What's your point
If I was scum emulating it then why would I even bring it up

because you think that's how town you would act?

i think i'm kinda not finding anymore stuff that's really readable without twisting my brain through 10 layers of interpretation so like, i'll drop the convo there if you're fine with it

okay

yeah mastina being absent is ugly
984 stirred my brain on that topic

isn't mastina always low activity though

pedit : stop pediting you chuckleheads

So ur reading T3 as town for doing things that scum are likely going to be seen as suspicious to scum players, dwlee

No, I'm explaining why I agree with t3. I think t3 is town here for thinking the same exact thing about shea's way of reading people here

My reads are motivation based

I disagree though. You're assigning motivation to things that you can't reasonably

know

the motivation of

Dwlee has moved up a pokebox

ok but given that its RVS and all wagons are going to be dumb why did you make that callout like you did? Further to the point, what did you hope to accomplish by calling it out like you did?

It seems to me that as someone who has been playing since 2004 you would know that frequently wagons start in RVS for basically no reason, are dumb, and then from the ashes of those wagons people actually start having more relevant opinions and that's how we move from noise to signal.

So like, what does town you hope to accomplish in this instance from specifically saying "x wagon is dumb."

Like, yes it is, that's the point. And I know you know this.

To discuss a specific example here, shea, I didn't take this reason for STD being scum seriously because I think your concept of assigning motivations is flawed here. You argue that town!STD shouldn't have much motivation to make that post which sure

maybe

, but that doesn't actually imply that scum!STD DOES have the motivation to make that post imo. I think that reading based on intent is 100% the way to go normally but I just don't agree with how you are assigning these intents which is why I made the analogy to vote hopping that people typically think is scummy

I actually explained why I thought there was potential scum motivation for doing that in another post in pretty great detail tbh so like maybe read the rest of the posts.

And I disagreed with that. The main thing I remember is that you think it's so STD can look like they're participating when they're not actually doing much but STD already had a bunch of posts in the thread. Like as scum they could just as easily have not made that post or made it. If STD was lurking around, made that post, then dipped sure but he wasn't, he was around.

Being at a computer really makes me say words better maybe I should do this more often

What do you think of my points about braincell being somewhat unfiltered for scum?

I dunno, you say unfiltered, I'd call them more transparent than anything. I think the posts follow a logical progression in thought process. I'm not paying a ton of attention lately but I don't get the wagon on this slot.

I read emotion better than anyone on the site, and it was kinda surprising to see them replace out at that point they did. I'd never townread a slot for replacing out, god knows. But I do like the posts when they were playing. And the frustration at being read for "tone" rings genuine, if a bit premature frustration-wise. If I made my guess, i'd assume this user has been run up the flagpole before for tone.

I'd lean town on this slot.

-k

Fire will become more readable with flips on the table, but a read on TIL would be nice.

Sorry about your mom :/

If anything, thoughts on the BrainCell and Gypyx wagons would be great skrew.

I want a picture

The folks on psyduck and friends need to get off and make better votes.

-Bell

Fire will become more readable with flips on the table

i don't think this statement has ever been true

I would like to second this.

-Bell

I just don't agree with how you are assigning these intents

Okay, but why are you choosing to argue over this instead of something game relevant.
Shea is correct mid-game is not usually the best time for genuine mafia play feedback.

-Bell

I'm vibing with that bell post quite a bit. And i know where my conclusion does on the scale of balance of potential motivation.

I have a lot of scum reads this game.

Thankfully Sircakez is easy to read today. I will be mad if he is scum this game.
and the ducks.
and maybe ralts.

-Bell

*snore*

Gyphx may or may not have the answer and revealed it by saying Mastina is just usually low activity. But it's hard when she wasn't really there at this point in the game. But even though she isn't there, other scum players are mentioning her. The scum teams approach to Mastina is a light touch. Bu I don't really see anything that screams partner yet. Unlike Imaginality and Dwlee. Though Sircakez felt it was evidence to the contrary, I don't agree, but aight.

Dwlee takes refuge in game criticism rather than fake hunting. I point this out. Shea looks there as well. I don't have the guts to do this with a partner. But eh. Dwlee takes what Notty says about Mastina and explicitly addresses it, but doesn't do anything with it. But he's open to the possibility. It reads *slightly* more like opportunism than "yeah, look, I'm saying this because way down the line you'll see this as anti-associative because I didn't defend her or ignore this" but only slightly.
Ralts decides to ask for a picture than post anything else.

-Bell

Notty comes in and defends Brain cell.

Okay, but why are you choosing to argue over this instead of something game relevant.
Shea is correct mid-game is not usually the best time for genuine mafia play feedback.

-Bell

This is a silly question if you read what I was responding to in the first place

You're silly.

As the person who started brain celll wagon I like the gypyx wagon more

Why?

I find the gypyx wagon to be made up of townier people

Imaginality interested in how Wheme found the right answer, maybe. Or they're just faking it.

I can't read Mastina for shit on day one, just gonna call her town

I do have a flowchart for that, yaknow.

edit while reading further : yeah okay saw your answer to ralts, not a huge fan of admitting that you yourself are scummy but like i don't know how to play mafia so idk

I wasn't saying I was scummy, I was saying that I was aware that I was displaying the trait I'd expect that scum displayed but also acknowledging that I know it wouldn't be

only

scum displaying that trait.

I don't like Gypyx and Ralts jumping on mastina's comment about the people who see TSQ v STD as TvT being more likely scum than not.

I mean on the one hand I do think Gypyx's comment absolutely sucks.

On the other hand the Gypyx wagon gives off terrible vibes and feels like it fucking sucks, with scum latching onto it.

When I'm in a better mindset (hella tired right now, just reading to stay caught up, not really capable of good critical thinking), will be able to give that better thought.

Not Voting:

The Goat, mastina

MOD:

VOTE: SirCakez

I've not changed my vote once in the game; I should be on SirCakez

.

Goats entrance feels off to me so far. Complains about pages (frequent scum tactic when they're behind and need to say something) makes vague comment about the largest wagon maybe being scummy (how would you know? Maybe because buddies are talking about it in pt?)

Valid, tho I'd like to also say SleepyKrew did fairly similar so I'd be willing to yeet either of them.

Mastina, are you going to be generally active this game?

Active? Mostly--I'm starting a new job tomorrow, and League Worlds 2021 is going on right now, both of which will cut into my activity a little, but I

should

be able to be here fairly often and be fairly active overall. (I'm close to my limit in gaming, but while fatigue is a risk, I'm not exceeding the limit.)

Contributing? Well, not

tonight

(not in the headspace for it), but we'll have to see. Hopefully, with luck, yes, but potentially will lack if I am struggling to get a good town core.

I have a good scum core I feel, but not a good town core, so I've got better than nothing but not as much as I want to have.

I skimmed some of that list. There is in fact a "is Mastina angry" section.
They also talk about Chaos and Order in their reads and then update their reads like 5 minutes later, so they're consistently avoiding their own tells. But they're their own tells for a reason so *WIFOM loop* Still it's good to know that they're *ultra aware of themselves, which I totally didn't know already. I also liked that they addressed TSQ's paranoia of a better scumstina that had died years ago.

the one time i've seen scum mastina she said the most random things i don't know if that's the case with scum!mastina but it's definitely different from my (admittedly only one) example

I mean to be fair.

The difference between you and Shea is that you have experienced recent scumastina, where I can't scum worth a damn.

Shea has experienced old scumastina, where I was at my prime and fully capable of actually playing scum.

The difference between current scumastina and the scumastina of when I was in my prime is just as night/day as the difference between my towngame and my scumgame in that prime-scumastina is nigh-indistinguishable from my towngame (not quite, obviously, even at my prime there were clear scumastina markers because different alignments wanted to do different things and used different methods but it was surface-level at least visibly very similar requiring nuance to distinguish) but current scumastina is obvious as fuck.

That having been said.

I don't think I'm actually out of my current-scumastina range, so the strong townreads on me are a bit baffling. Yeah, I'm town, so yeah, the reads are accurate, but how the fuck are people thinking that I'm not being my lazy apathetic scum self here? I've not power-towned yet (I'll get there obviously, eventually, but I'm not there

right now

), so I actually don't understand why I look town to folks. I AM town, but if *I* don't think I look town as town, if *I* don't think I'm out of my scumrange (and that says something when I'm talking about not being out of my

current

scumrange), chances are, I'm not actually out of my scumrange soooo...I don't understand the townreads there.

i think i downplayed the "randomness." she literally quoted random posts and was like "Town." "Scum?" "Town!" "scum." to them it was bizarre.

I've got some bad news for ya.

My head hurts. I make posts like this early game sometimes, but not quite as overblown.

[quote="In post 1091, Kitty Trauma Team"I suddenly have a million questions about her claim and how it would relate to being targeted by my own ability because I'd REALLY hate to have to be the one to NAR that

Well if you were the first/only person to target me, I'd get a copy of your ability.

Granted, I haven't asked about success vs. attempt in terms of targeting me, didn't think of it until now, will do that after submitting this post. The role PM says 'targeting', which implies it doesn't need to succeed in order for me to copy it, but not every mod is as fond of strictly adhering to semantics as I am so the wording of targeting in spite of implying success isn't needed, may still require success, so need to ask about that.

I'm looking at the playerlist and honestly realizing I'd be forcing a read on like 75% of these players if I try to make a readslist
A lot of players are blending together While I empathize with this as it's true of me, too, I still think Cakez is scum here anyway.

i'm actually about to dump a readslist

When's this mixtape gonna drop?

A dash of opportunistic pressure because they do not like the current wagon.

Your good scum core is cakez crew and goat?
That's lackluster

That'd be lackluster if that was my scum core but thankfully it is not.

Milobird
Save the Dragons
Firebringer
Thestatusquo
Wisdom

Truth Innuendos Lies
Sharing the Brain Cell

WhemeStar
Kitty Trauma Team
Dwlee99
Ralts

Alexandrite
The Goat
Gypyx
chowchow
Woolax
SleepyKrew

imaginality

T3
SirCakez

Since then:
Kitty Trauma team has become more town.

Goat has become more scum;
Woolax is a little more scum;
SleepyKrew is more scum.

So my actual scum core is more like:

(locktown at least for D1)
Milobird
Save the Dragons
Firebringer
Thestatusquo
Wisdom

(almost locktown, is strongly town for D1)
Kitty Trauma Team
Sharing the Brain Cell
Truth Innuendos Lies

(various shades of ambivalence)
WhemeStar
Dwlee99
Ralts

(various shades of null)
Alexandrite
chowchow
Gypyx

(south of null by an undefined amount)
Woolax
imaginality
The Goat

(lean scum)
SleepyKrew

(lockscum)
T3
SirCakez

I realize that having only two lockscum isn't ideal and that my townreads aren't as sure as they should be, but I'm overall happy with having the scum

pool

be what it is;
{Woolax, imaginality, Goat, SleepyKrew, T3, SirCakez} is a group that I think should have at least 2 scum in it. Obviously, I'd hope for more, I'd think 2-4 in there total, but there should be a

minimum

of two scum in there.

I'm happy with a scum

pool

of six, with 2 of them being lockscum.

It's not where I'd

prefer

to be on D1, but I'm at least

content

with it.

Why is Firebringer lock town?

On the other hand the Gypyx wagon gives off terrible vibes and feels like it fucking sucks, with scum latching onto it.

When I'm in a better mindset (hella tired right now, just reading to stay caught up, not really capable of good critical thinking), will be able to give that better thought.

This is an interesting callout; the only person you have south of null voting that is currently voting for Gypyx is imaginality vs. 3 who are voting for Brain Cell.

This could be Ralts lining up Mastina way down the line for a miselim. From an informed perspective a scum ralts knows that: All the dudes on the brain cell wagon, if it goes through, are gunna look bad. Actually this post of kind of bonkers and the perspective is weird. Who looks at what a player is reading each player as and comparing it to the wagons each player is on? It sort of screams informed.

liking kuri's posts, esp the part about sk

I had the same thought.

Sliding up to T3.[/quote]

Mastina defends Gyphx because she does not like the wagon based off of vibes.
Ralts notes that she's only scum reading one dude on the Gyphx wagon, which is in direction contradiction to the "vibes" statement.

In retrospect, I'm not sure if this is informed from Ralts or if they just noted that hey, they're saying X, but Y contradicts that. They also expressed some interest in a Gyphx elim, so it makes sense for them to push Mastina here.
But the question is, why are they looking that many steps ahead. Are they confident that Gyphx is going to flip scum enough to analyze it to the point of noticing that contradiction or not? It's a lot of mental work. Would they articulate themselves that well? if they didn't like what Mastina said I could see them pushing mastina without a good reason for doing so. Or only hand waving it as town. I can't
I can't tell tbh. *throws up hands at this section*

I kind of think it could be either.

-Bell

Like if you're scum, my ego is safe and I will not be miserable regardless if Sircakez and Mastina vote wrong.
There's value in that.

...No? Mastina isn't confirmed, so there's merit in it. I'm well aware that saying this stuff can piss them off and cause them to retaliate vote me. Still gunna do it.

I still don't follow how town you comes to the conclusion that I'm harder to read than Mastina tho.
Like we're both equally terrible scum. So. Arguably I'm worse scum actually. It's one of the reasons I think you're scum Pooky, I don't think either of us have looked scummy this game from a bird's eye view.
I'm aware Notty disagreed, but like, yeah.

Funnily enough your accuracy and propensity to be on scum wagons is a point against you because the rest of us look like clowns in comparison and towns tend to look more clownish as a result of their ignorance of who is and isn't scum.

e.g., Koba pushing at us and then 180'ing on to you because they sorted us.

No, it's the "I wanna look cool as scum" tell.
It works a lot more than It should.

I have no idea why you think my scum game has improved a single millimeter, the more likely argument is just that you can't backtrack and you're stuck.
Also, congratulations I go back to work tomorrow morning.

But yeah, I'm not satisfied with this as my elo play, but I can't do more. I wish I could.
The rest of the town just has to bring this across the finish line. I can't do the focused assessment stuff more, even though there's a ton there. I wish I had infinite time. It would, well I could have been a lot more productive if I had just committed to doing more.

Oh well.

Milo why did you abandon your mastina push? because I said I wouldn't vote her?

Notty thought it was Mastina, I thought it was Pooky. Notty thinks it’s probably pooky due to the lack of examination. Pooky has called what I’m doing a song and dance, but to be honest if he can’t read real solving after a billion years of mafia or even internally doubt himself before pushing as town than I dunno what he was learning about. It’s just more likely he’s not examining because he’s informed.

The argument that Pooky is making that he just wants everyone to have fun is a point for shooting gyphx, I’ve never made the argument that pooky shot gyphx without permission. If anything they would have discussed it and gyphx would have encouraged the shot in their pt. Pretty sure I already said this actually.

-Bell

It should be noted before I go that Mastina has little reason to suspect or question pooky as scum. It would be easier for her just to let pooky lose the game for town. But that’s sort of conjecture. Just a random thought, but I sort of feel like I’m conf biasing there maybe.

-Bell

I personally subscribe to the Gyphx asked pooky to shoot him hypothesis.
But it would be funny if they big brain goofed.

-Bell

I'll tell you if we won when we we're finished.

*rolls up sleeves*

I'm out of solve juice.

But I can explain Most of the stuff.
I don't think I really ignored Dwlee, any more than I usually ignore him. I typically ignore dwlee because they don't say much that catches my interest as either alignment. He's coasted right past me as scum and town actually. I think I only ever had a real conversation with him the first game I played with him in which he seemed a lot try hardier than every subsequent game I've played with them. Anyway the fact the only time I really mentioned Dwlee (or the two times I mentioned them) it was explicitly to shade them and endorse that they should die. It should be noted that I don't know Nancy that well as a player in terms of tactics. I don't know if they culd gambit or not. Once I found that they probably would never lie about a cop guilty as either alignment, I felt comfortable killing hi and wanted to share that with the world because, what else am I gunna say?

Also, I tend to think I'm on the more infrequent vote hoppers or rather, it's pretty rare for me to vote people in general. Sometimes I don't vote anyone at all and I tend to be in the "not voting category"
Not saying it's rare for me to vote, but I don't always just vote someone.
Also, if I'm basically saying that the guilty is probably legit, someone else is going to vote them. I'm putting a foot down and saying "yeah, get them" and I don't have to vote to demonstrate that nor is it a mystery that if the weather changed I would put my foot down and start giving people a hard time for not voting a guiltied dude.

-Bell

This isn't really the type of stuff I would be talking about if I were scum btw. It hardly helps my case, but I'm telling you the truth. So if you can't recognize the truth that's on ya.
I am not annoyed at Titus for not really participating because I imagine she is going through difficulties and I should be sensitive to that, but I would have liked if they had said just once that this was Bell's town game.

Then again I don't know if Titus knows how to read me or has ever really made any sense in regards to reading me. Which is only fair since I can say that me trying to read her has been an up and down rollercoaster. Except I try to kill her more than she has tried to kill me.

-Bell

But enough about that.
Have at thee.
Also, I think I answered most of the questions Sircakez asked.

-Bell

Yes, it was a real unexpected kill, but it had to be done because the game would have been too easy otherwise.

-Bell

There is no wifom, It's just Pooky.
Killing you and letting Mastina do her own thing for victory is really all you need to know. There's zero reason for us to kill her.

-Bell

yea like mastina wouldnt see the cakes kill and maybe change her mind? this is just not true

Lmao, yeah Cakez dying wouldn't changed her mind.
Says the guy who said in this very game that Mastina never changes her mind.

-Bell

Like the case of Milo killing mastina means we want to somehow make our already difficult job of surviving as sole scum that much harder because you’ve been letting Pooky spoon feed you whatever expired food he has in his fridge

what r u even talking about mastina literally changed her mind between me/you from d8->d9. why wouldnt she change her mind again if she gets brought to elo ?

There are a million reasons why it was different and you fucking know that.
Why would anyone, ever, in a million years trade concrete information for maybes and could bes?

-Bell

he literally lied about voting me d8

Does this make any sense to you Sircakez? At all?
I lied about forgetting I voted him? this is something a sane person latches unto when they're interested in the truth? His focus is not anywhere.
He has no solve and hasn't been solving the entire game.

-Bell

The simplest explanation is that Pooky shot Mastina because she was going to vote him.
You do not need to read into this further.
I do not do trick shots.

-Bell

There is literally no reason for us to style on you Sircakez.
Pooky's argument is that Mastina might have changed her mind.
When you were right in front of them posting that it's Milobird.
Do you think I'm blind?

-Bell

you dont have to be michael jordan to shoot a free throw

you dont have to be peta level scum to make a wifom nightkill.

Literally no point in this and no advantage to this whatsoever.

-Bell

There are many, many extremely sple reasons it's Pooky this game.

1. Ralts repped out.
2. All of his scum partners avoided him.
3. Pooky has motive to shoot his own partner.
4. Pooky is terminally lazy when he's scum.
5. Imaginality gift wrapped the scum team to you and Dwlee lost control of his shit for a microsecond and gave the game away even harder.
6. Pooky continues to be a siren song, someone who tells you what you want to hear, someone who is not, in anyway going to challenge you least he gets on your bad side. There is a clear motivation to curry favor with you. there is a clear explanation for his favor.
7. Everybody else is solving/hesitating, but Pooky who is the odd bear out. No hesitation, his argument was that he already solved invisibly and therefore he never had to solve in the first place. He has multiple times lied or isrepresentented others.
8. His arguments are terrible. His logic is broken. He's projecting hard.
9. We never shoot Mastina with her end of day posts.

-Bell

Wanna know my scum win rate.

-Bell

It's very high.
It's 1 marathon game and that's it since I've been back.
I've won one game as scum, total. And it was a marathon. It was great, but yeah.
No, I can't even imagine where anyone could conceive of this.
It should be noted Mastina only ever considered us as a possibility because Pooky shot Gyphx.
They would otherwise say it's obviously Pooky. that one point of data is being weighed appropriately but it does not make up for 1000 posts from a player that has a playstyle that tries to get town read as town and has a very different scum game to town game.

Are you using a gambler's fallacy Pooky. "I'm due" like the odds aren't in the houses favor.

Didn't sircakez also say he was going to ignore our back and forths and my solves because elo posts were meaningless last day phase.
and I still kept posting. I guess to convince Mastina who I just killed in scum Bell world.

Literally the only one that was responding or reading my cases was the one I just shot according to Pooky.
Does that trejectory make any sense?
Hello?
-Bell

like you contradict yourself

this is just desperate hurl kitchen sink at the wall level nonsense

The argument, that I would let Sircakez live after being hard on him all game is insane.
Like, that's pretty much a scum slip right there. There's a level of depth that is missing from Pooky in this game. That would be present here if he were town.
He has multiple posts taking you aside designed explicitly to manipulate you emotionally by holding your hand and telling you it's okay.
But the only reason it's okay is because he's scum and he has one single goal this game.
Which is fooling you. That was his win condition. You're alive because Mastina was not going to let him live.
He killed her instead of the confirmed town.

Not weighing that night kill is malpractice.

-Bell

I've put in a ludicrous amount of time and effort into showing you guys it wasn't me. At least trust that I wouldn't have made all those posts when absolutely nobody but Mastina was listening and then kill Mastina, the one player who fucking listened.
Pooky's argument for the Mastina kill is objectively insane and if anyone says "Durr hurr it could be either or, either could have made that kill" I'll be utterly dumb founded.

-Bell

Confirm town is alive. You're the designated sucker Sircakez. You've been it since day 1.
Admit it and don't be one and kill Pooky.

-Bell

I would prefer not to be paranoia elimmed at the last moment for townloss cuz that would suck

like I dont get how my meta is so obviously anti-bus but people still murder me anyway lol

This is a blatant strawman. Nobody is paranoia eliminating you. Cases have been made, thoughts have gone down.
The only player that could be fairly characterized as paranoid of you is STD. The rest had cases, arguments and put thoughts down to the effect of "it's Pooky"

-Bell

Isn't the classic thing we're supposed to ask ourselves in elo "why am I still alive?"

We're still alive because Pooky couldn't vote or eliminate Mastina. They could however eliminate us they even have a test case in which Koba lost his back and forth with Pooky. Demonstrating that Pooky's path was viable.
You're still alive because you're in Pooky's pocket.
Pooky is still alive because they're scum.

-Bell

every nightkill has been on conftown or investigative so that argument is kind of a load of crap

Yes, it's almost like you didn't have much choice in who to kill until now.
and when that choice presented itself you shot the person scum reading you!
Fascinating.

-Bell

The argument also has to do with my proficiency,
I am not good scum. I do not improve leaps and bounds in a single game.
You have a long history of being able to fool people.
If people think my posts are townie it's probably because I'm town.
If people think your posts are townie it's probably because you want them to think that.

-Bell

The argument also has to do with my proficiency,
I am not good scum. I do not improve leaps and bounds in a single game.
You have a long history of being able to fool people.
If people think my posts are townie it's probably because I'm town.
If people think your posts are townie it's probably because you want them to think that.

-Bell

Mastina already explained the discrepancy in that you should have exhibited significantly more uncertainty if you were town, because I am obvtown as town. Which I was and you made clear I was until suddenly I was not and Mastina noticed that your trajectory sucked and how you shifted your read also sucked.

-Bell

Isn't the classic thing we're supposed to ask ourselves in elo "why am I still alive?"

We're still alive because Pooky couldn't vote or eliminate Mastina. They could however eliminate us they even have a test case in which Koba lost his back and forth with Pooky. Demonstrating that Pooky's path was viable.
You're still alive because you're in Pooky's pocket.
Pooky is still alive because they're scum.

-Bell

I am alive because you decided it would be easier to 1v1 with me than Mastina since nobody is willing to vote for Mastina.

Mastina is dead because you decided that's the nightkill Pooky!scum would make and you think it will get Cakes to flip on me.

You were also worried she would change her mind yet again.

Cakes is alive because you think you can get him to flip on me and the pressure is starting to get to him.

You are alive because you don't want to shoot yourself.

Lol, This is sircakez erasure. There remains no reason for us to kill Mastina and take our chances with Sircakez. You're intentionally ignoring that because it's inconvenient.
-Bell

You remain incapable of a constructing a reasonable argument for why Mastina is dead and not Sircakez, who was cleared. There is a simple lack of clear in depth reasoning that a more focused town Pooky would have had available to make a less generic argument.

-Bell

Notty does not think he will change his mind.
I don't know, but I will keep trying.


I do also want to note that Pooky intentionally makes unsound arguments as scum because he thinks if he applied his brain to his arguments he would come off as too polished and prepared.
I have no idea what his posts look like to everyone else, but to me they are exactly that.

pedit: Let me know when contradictions are scummy. You know better that they're not. And it's not even a contradiction because Mastina and Sircakez are not the same person *psyduck*

Your own characterization of Mastina as stubborn directly points to you being the one who killed her.
Sircakez provided no percentage, SO WHY WOULD I DO THAT.
and also, do you think Mastina is actually just going to roll a dice and decide on it based on whether she rolls 41 or above.
The % is rhetorical. You're intentionally literalizing her, when we both know she has no system in place that actually uses any numbers whatsoever in her scum hunting. She also was trying to defend her ego no mtter which way the cookie crumbled. Which is an excellent strategy that I endorse. Because I do it.

-Bell

No it's pretty damning when a confirm town lives over a non-confirm town.
You can keep pretending that there is no difference between a cleared and non-cleared player.

But, lol. I'd say that argument is not going to work, but now I sound like Koba and he died.
Thankfully I never self-vote so I won't do what he did and just keep going until Sircakez gets it or he messes up. Either or.

-Bell

Mastina has me at 9% lean over you for scum

Sir Cakes scumreads you and wants to kill you.

We go into night.

Sir Cakes gets shot in the face and dies.

Do you really think at that point Mastina is going to not re-evaluate and maybe change her mind and decide to vote for you?

I fully expect that she would have done more due diligence and examined her own arguments and thoughts while discussing her reads and asking people about stuff as she narrowed in to what her choice would ultimately be.
I also know that she would have steam rolled past your objections as she had already done repeatedly to your objections last day phase. Once Mastina latches unto something she is difficult to fool just using arguments, something I learned from flavorleaf versus Pooky. Because once she caught me she simply didn't let go without me giving her something I couldn't give (i.e., real solving perspective) and no amount of AtE or gotcha's would dissuade her.

-Bell

There is a glaring issue with time in this Pooky's response to me.
Can you spot where he never tried to solve and waited 8 days for Sircakez to post in elo?

Let me give you a pictorial example:

Sircakez expressed uncertainty and instead of going back and trying to help him.
You basically pat his head and say you believed in him then proceeded to do nothing for 9 days until he finally found some time for himself and are now hiding behind that the reason you didn't bother showing him why we were scum
is because he went and did it himself.

-Bell

I think you are focusing on something easier to deal with than the point I'm making.

-Bell

solving implies you don't know what the solution is

I am town

I know I am town because that's in my role PM.

I am in a 1v1 with you, the last possible mafia player remaining.

I do not need to pretend to "solve" and figure out who the baddie is.

I let Cakes do it himself because it's better to let people make up their own minds rather than have the ideas put into their head from someone who is self-interested.

Cakes can't trust a solve coming from me because from his point of view it's possible that I am scum giving him a fake narrative and trying to influence him.

Cakes doing it himself gives him the ability to look at your iso objectively without my commentary possibly influencing him.

I've killed you 6 times now.

-Bell

I'm just going to keep killing you.

*keyboard warrior WIM activate*

I have to hold unto the Sircakez wheel because they're actively biased towards us, have said so themselves, I'm invested in the outcome and want to win and I have faith that if I point out the truth Sircakez can see it. Yet another reason there is no reason he would be alive if we were scum. I would be actively making the game more difficult for myself. This is also an argument I made for Mastina town yesterday because *she* was making it actively harder on herself by weighing and posting stuff when she could have just let you lose the game for town.

If you have two people arguing for something, you hope that your judgment will allow you to figure out which one is telling the truth. Me pointing to Sircakez and trying to convince him to vote Pooky scum.

We've already gone over that your hope is that if you leave Sircakez alone while we continually badger him that he'll just slip on you and kill us out of sheer annoyance and exasperation. Something I hope he will not do because that would be a misplay.

It's still bad that Mastina is dead when mechanically cleared Sircakez is not. That the argument Pooky is making is one based on the possibility of Mastina reversing course when another player was actively annoying us with how dense they were being.
It's still bad that Pooky is saying that actually it was his plan all along not to help Sircakez solve. Or share his perspective to make it easier for him to solve.

Pooky is correct that, psychologically speaking a person that does their own work believes more in what their work is saying and people have a tendency to rebuff being told what to do.
This is true. But their work doesn't have to be right.
It suits Pooky that he let you reach the wrong conclusion yourself because you're more likely to believe your own farts than another player who has constructed golden farts that contain the truth for your perusal.

-Bell

Pooky is correct that, psychologically speaking a person that does their own work believes more in what their work is saying and people have a tendency to rebuff being told what to do.
This is true. But their work doesn't have to be right.
It suits Pooky that he let you reach the wrong conclusion yourself because you're more likely to believe your own farts than another player who has constructed golden farts that contain the truth for your perusal.

You are conveniently leaving out the fact that I have no way of knowing what conclusion Sir Cakes would reach.

You are pretending that I would somehow know that Sir Cakes would scumread you if he read your ISO himself, which is something I can't know because I'm not a psychic or a time traveler.

Um. Are you saying that you haven't been trying to Pocket Sircakez all game and don't have a clear trajectory of what Sircakez himself has said repeatedly in thread about where his initial impressions were, who he suspected (milo, milo, milo) and only after an avalanche of posts from me shifted even a tiny bit only to whip back like a rubber band at the first sign he could be right.

-Bell

Town Pooky would have been solving and trying to convince Sircakez that we're scum with a case. Town Pooky can put in effort to solve when he wants to.
How you would approach a Mastina kill is near unfathomable to me, I would assume you would just be in shock wondering why the fuck we misplayed so bad. Probably would have dunked on us a lot for fucking up.

-Bell

Nobody says this in elo. It’s a blatant lie. Pooky gets the jitters when he’s town in these situations.
Here he doesn’t got any.

-Bell

You would care if you were town. I have no idea why you're insisting you don't.

-Bell

Mastina's still dead and you're still obvious scum because I would never willingly give myself a stroke by letting Sircakez live.

-Bell

Also I can hear ya'll in the dead thread and no. My argument is fine and how I'm arguing is fine.
It's a mystery why Sircakez hasn't hammered yet,
except the mystery is solved because he is alive for that single reason.
He can't hammer pooky because he's pocketed.
Notty got all depressed about it last day phase.
and I was like "Nah uh, fuck that, I can convince water to flow in reverse, I am obvtown"
and now I am asking you a question Sircakez.
Can you flow in reverse, please?

Because while there's no universe in which I would gamble on that for the wifom lolz.
There are lots of universes where Pooky is scum and this is one of them.
Be a hero.
-Bell

Pooky is polite scum.
I helped solve for Pooky again. Look at him, fixated on etiquette.
Pah, I say. Pah.

-Bell

Anyway, Pooky's argument is that I should die because I'm rude to people. This is not an actual case. It's meant to avoid real analysis of my play and choices in the game and go for an emotional argument.

This is another reason why Pooky is scum this game.

I hope this has been educational in learning about how Town Bell sees the world.

-Bell

you say titus sucks

you mock me for not being good enough

you call cakes a moron who is pocketed.

like you know this is a game right?

Perspective slip in line 2. Solved for Pooky.
Additionally note pooky’s attitude toward Koba scum and the tack he is taking here. He compliments Kobe’s ruthless scum game but is arguing here that I’m being too ruthless by saying stuff in anger and frustration. Which tbh. I probably need to apologize for. I will after the game since I don’t carry feelings forward.

Other addressed stuff before I go to work.
1. Already stated what I meant in regards to Titus. I don’t think they’re accurate. That’s fine. I’m not very accurate either.
2. I’m not actually mocking you though. I just think what you needed to do to win you couldn’t do. You shot gyphx. But you needed more. Probably. We’ll find out.
3. Eh. I said this yes. Sorry Sircakez, I was just very frustrated because you seemed to be ignoring stuff that was valid stuff.

Work time.

-Bell

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

take a look at the death curse endgame

you won't see a single post like 7100

his logic in that game is concise, easy to follow and well reasoned

here he's literally just hurling a kitchen sink at the wall and hoping something sticks

[Milobird]

Look at death curse and look at the misrepresentations pooky is making here. Look at the arguments he’s making.

You can read Death Curse and compare the play, it's pretty obvious this Bell looks nothing like Death Curse Endgame Town Bell.

Look at the way Bell responds to me after I tell him I'm scrolling him vs how he's responding to you when you say you are leaning towards voting for him.

The difference is like day and night, rather than actual go into solving he's just flaming and spamming and AtEing. In Death Curse he immediately begins solving to show me he's not scum.

Okay, I've brought up death curse multiple times before you did this game. Also this isn't true. I actually Ate'd a bunch before solving and once I started solving I couldn't stop talking about how I was dying and how I felt terrible and how long this was taking.

-Bell

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Actually you responded to me saying I was going to scroll you by pointing out townie things you had done, like voting off a bunch of bad guys.

Here you are just puffing up your chest and flaming cakes for daring to think you could possibly be scum.

[Milobird]

take a look at the death curse endgame

you won't see a single post like 7100

his logic in that game is concise, easy to follow and well reasoned

here he's literally just hurling a kitchen sink at the wall and hoping something sticks

In death curse,
I did the same sort of analysis.
I analyzed all of the other scum and how they interacted before realizing that Sheelyc slipped.
I also started dismantling Noraa's in game posts that were recently made.

Also the color/shapes game that ended recently I would like you compare Pooky (blue's) posting there to here and show that Pooky did more solving in one game day than he has all game here.

-Bell

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I play differently when I am on a female alt than my main account.

[Milobird]

Actually you responded to me saying I was going to scroll you by pointing out townie things you had done, like voting off a bunch of bad guys.

Here you are just puffing up your chest and flaming cakes for daring to think you could possibly be scum.

I puff up, see warehouse 13. In which Penguinalien said they did not like playing mafia with players like me that play this way.
Grayice also focused on a moral argument against me in that game instead of solving.

I already said this but it was ignored.

-Bell

[Milobird]

I play differently when I am on a female alt than my main account.

Cabd directly said in blood stained that you were scum because you weren't doing anything.
You said you were trying to get eliminated there, but that scum tell of his still held true for the most part.

-Bell

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

yes you are imitating that part of your town game by puffing up

however if cakes reads your death curse iso, when puffing up doesnt work you can actually show how you did townie things and convince your accuser that he is wrong

you treat me pretty respectfully and you are eager to show me I am wrong.

Here all you did was flame cakes for days on end and now when i call you out on it you are adjusting and claiming to want to be a good little solver for him.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I play differently when I am on a female alt than my main account.

Cabd directly said in blood stained that you were scum because you weren't doing anything.
You said you were trying to get eliminated there, but that scum tell of his still held true for the most part.

-Bell

I do things when I am scum

I have goals and objectives.

I didn't do anything in bloodstained because my goal was to die.

[Milobird]

A lot of what I just linked was giving context toward my positions and how consistent I've been.

-Bell

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

your idea of consistency is loudly proclaiming you are town over and over and saying that anyone who doubted your towniness is a moron.

[Milobird]

I play differently when I am on a female alt than my main account.

Cabd directly said in blood stained that you were scum because you weren't doing anything.
You said you were trying to get eliminated there, but that scum tell of his still held true for the most part.

-Bell

I do things when I am scum

I have goals and objectives.

I didn't do anything in bloodstained because my goal was to die.

So you're saying that Cabd's Meta tell on you was wrong but he didn't know you were trying to die. So why did it trigger his meta tell if he didn't think that?
In addition why are you arguing that you do things as scum, while acknowledging that you haven't done much solving here. Two distinctly different positions.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Cabd has Meta that says that you don't solve as scum.
So this is a point of evidence for scum you.

Cabd also has meta that I can't post more than 50 posts per game day as town.


-Bell

[Milobird]

*as scum.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

it's not very hard to keep posting the following over and over again:

(1) I'm town
(2) Anyone who thinks I'm scum is a moron
(3) Pooky is scum kill him

[Milobird]

your idea of consistency is loudly proclaiming you are town over and over and saying that anyone who doubted your towniness is a moron.

It's still consistency and it shows that I really believe that. My trajectory of emotion is coherent. Nobody will care tho.

-Bell

[Milobird]

it's not very hard to keep posting the following over and over again:

(1) I'm town
(2) Anyone who thinks I'm scum is a moron
(3) Pooky is scum kill him

1 and 3 are true.

-Bell

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

It's trivial to fake

[Milobird]

Over weeks?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

yea

[Milobird]

I couldn't even remember voting you.

It also demonstrates a lot of it that I waffle a lot and hesitate and lot and go over the same stuff a lot. You kept arguing that my hesitation and need to check both of you was fake.
But if it was I was doing it long before that was a strategy that I planned for elo.
You argued that it didn't make sense and wasn't consistent with my earlier play, but earlier posts showed a lot of me going back and forth.

-bell

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Writing I'm town over and over again is not difficult to do.

Insulting people when they say you are mafia is not difficult to do.

AtE is not difficult to do.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I couldn't even remember voting you.

It also demonstrates a lot of it that I waffle a lot and hesitate and lot and go over the same stuff a lot. You kept arguing that my hesitation and need to check both of you was fake.
But if it was I was doing it long before that was a strategy that I planned for elo.
You argued that it didn't make sense and wasn't consistent with my earlier play, but earlier posts showed a lot of me going back and forth.

-bell

it's fake for you to go

"aha! It's Pooky! He Killed Mastina!"

"VOTE POOKY"

and then "Gee I sure hope it wasn't SirCakes!"

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

That's not actually a town mindset


It's a scumbag faking lack of knowledge