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[Azaariah]

Natalya is saying I'm obvious as scum

That's meta

It's also not true but that's cause meta bad

what natalya said can be interpreted a couple different ways and i think you thinking this way first is scum indicative

[Dwlee99]

or it's how the english language works ?

[Dwlee99]

Look if someone hammered there without claim that's basically a scum claim so I'm really not pressed about it, no matter how you feel about putting someone at e-1

It’s weird though that your first real anything is to put someone on e-1.

But, I don’t think scum would be so obvious.

dwlee-scum really is that obvious

"I don't think scum would be obvious"

"dwlee-scum" (aka dwlee as scum, cause hyphen) "really is that obvious"

Dwlee as scum is obvious

how else do you read this

[the worst]

I'm fairly sure Oman is town.

Reading their posts they feel genuinely upset that large portions of the player list are not posting and resigned to town apathy possibly destroying the chances of town winning this game.

They haven't played on the site for a while and they come from a time when lurking was actually quite an issue for town win rates so I think this mindset probably is not faked.

It's not like 100% but they're one of my more confident townreads atp for what it's worth.

I also think Oman is town but for like, slightly different reasons. I'm also quite scared of them. World build with me for a sec right. If Oman is scum who's putting more effort into this than half the town and people are just literally not paying attention to the spectacular web they're weaving -- do you not think they'd still be upset? Is there something about their emotional rxn which strikes you as significantly more likely to come from town?

[the worst]

dwlee-scum really is that obvious

Meta and on an alt? Double strike, be careful for the third pitch

I side-eyed this too

I still don’t see Natalya as scum. It would take a lot to convince me differently.

As I said I’m a sucker for activity and both her and Andante satisfy me there.

If this is town I actually want to inverse this read

ugh same

[the worst]

Also the worst it’s good to see you’re in the game. It’s been a while.

good to see you too dude.

scorpious, hold off for a little moment because your every post calls most of the people here scum but that cannot be correct even just based off of the game setup.

also, i think dwlee immediately assuming natalya is using meta is a red flag. if dwlee knows who natalya is, it's less of a red flag but if dwlee doesn't, it's a really big red flag

Perhaps, maybe once I can post in this game without having it critiqued.

I think you are scum as well..

Tell me who isn’t..please

Sorry I have to revisit this.

What is the pre requisite amount of town reads I should have right now?

Are you saying that the ratio of scum/town reads is AI?

Also,

Telling me that the game setup doesn’t allow everyone to be scum is kinda dumb.

oh I get where they're coming from actually

a standard normal game (they're all reviewed twice for balance) of 13 players will have 3 mafia aligned players. that's about it. I don't think multiple scumteams are even allowed at this size of game but I should double check that but I won't because I need to catch up & get ready for work.

Conventional wisdom will tell you thar you're looking for about 20-25% of a player list as scum. Having more scumreads than this means, most of the time, you're incorrectly scumreading people -- which means your solve will be fundamentally flawed.

So an ideal readlist eliminates scumreads until that's about 20-25% of the plist, then it works out how likely left-over townreads are to be correct basically.

Again conventional wisdom so salt to taste, but I've always found this p cerebral

[the worst]

Natalya is saying I'm obvious as scum

That's meta

It's also not true but that's cause meta bad

what natalya said can be interpreted a couple different ways and i think you thinking this way first is scum indicative

How is Dwlee interpreting it exactly? /

[the worst]

Sorry y'all I know this is super obviously dwlee scum and all that but they've got me pocketed so I'll have to wait til f3 then in a shocking twist, suddenly reverse my read and save the day.

VOTE: T3

(For those who arent used to my brand of bullshit: I don't buy the Dwlee wagon at all)

[Natalya]

so you think that lurking is not an issue anymore? because i think that scum win way more often when town is not that active.

It was much more of an issue back when he played.

[Natalya]

*They* played sorry

[Natalya]

dwlee-scum really is that obvious

Meta and on an alt? Double strike, be careful for the third pitch

I am replying to Scorp saying that he is townreading you for being "too obvious"

My point is that it is a bad reason to townread you because I've seen you be extremely obvious scum in the past.

Do you disagree on that being a bad reason to townread you?

[Natalya]

I also think Oman is town but for like, slightly different reasons. I'm also quite scared of them. World build with me for a sec right. If Oman is scum who's putting more effort into this than half the town and people are just literally not paying attention to the spectacular web they're weaving -- do you not think they'd still be upset? Is there something about their emotional rxn which strikes you as significantly more likely to come from town?

It rings as genuine frustration to me. I'm not sure exactly why I think that, just reading what they write down, I have a strong sense of empathy with them that it's what they truly feel and not just an act.

[the worst]

I also think Oman is town but for like, slightly different reasons. I'm also quite scared of them. World build with me for a sec right. If Oman is scum who's putting more effort into this than half the town and people are just literally not paying attention to the spectacular web they're weaving -- do you not think they'd still be upset? Is there something about their emotional rxn which strikes you as significantly more likely to come from town?

It rings as genuine frustration to me. I'm not sure exactly why I think that, just reading what they write down, I have a strong sense of empathy with them that it's what they truly feel and not just an act.

I agree. Why does that only come from town?

[Scorpious]

dwlee-scum really is that obvious

Meta and on an alt? Double strike, be careful for the third pitch

I am replying to Scorp saying that he is townreading you for being "too obvious"

My point is that it is a bad reason to townread you because I've seen you be extremely obvious scum in the past.

Do you disagree on that being a bad reason to townread you?

I want to respond to this after they answer.

[Dwlee99]

dwlee-scum really is that obvious

Meta and on an alt? Double strike, be careful for the third pitch

I am replying to Scorp saying that he is townreading you for being "too obvious"

My point is that it is a bad reason to townread you because I've seen you be extremely obvious scum in the past.

Do you disagree on that being a bad reason to townread you?

It'd be a worse reason if it was 2016

Now it's like maybe fine

Actually two months ago it'd be fine but I kinda openwolfed at the end of PYP so who knows

TLDR: meta bad

[Scorpious]

dwlee-scum really is that obvious

Meta and on an alt? Double strike, be careful for the third pitch

I am replying to Scorp saying that he is townreading you for being "too obvious"

My point is that it is a bad reason to townread you because I've seen you be extremely obvious scum in the past.

Do you disagree on that being a bad reason to townread you?

I want to respond to this after they answer.

I don’t think it’s fair to call it a “bad reason”. You are basing that off of meta that I don’t have.

And that’s the only basis you have for calling it bad. How far are you going to push this?
I don’t see someone with “2015” in their info putting themselves out there like that. I’m going to use that as information. It’s just way too easy, and while I still find you town, I’m more inclined to start to move the needle based on how insistent of this you become.

I’m not leaning town on Dwlee, they are a TR for me..

[T3]

IDK if I'm just feeling petty tonight but I kind of hate those reads from Scorp

mindmeld

Didn't you try to pull this type of "mindmeld" with something someone already said as scum?

yeah but i was catching up

[T3]

VOTE: Scorp
claim please

Hot take; I actually don’t think this is alignment indicative for Dwlee. From my experience with Scum Dwlee he tends to be a lot more self-aware and composed, and putting someone up to E-1 halfway through D1 with the intent of making them claim is kind of a normal Dwlee thing to do. Not saying he’s town— just that this doesn’t say a lot about his alignment at all.

Personally, I actually think that T3 comes off looking worse for his Scorpious vote since it’s just echoing what’s been said multiple times before and is kind of just… basic surface level commentary? I wanna hear some other opinions on this take first, though.

hnghhhhh
no
it was an original thought

[T3]

Sorry y'all I know this is super obviously dwlee scum and all that but they've got me pocketed so I'll have to wait til f3 then in a shocking twist, suddenly reverse my read and save the day.

VOTE: T3

(For those who arent used to my brand of bullshit: I don't buy the Dwlee wagon at all)

I get wagoned Day 1 in at least 80% of the games I play, regardless of alignment.

[the worst]

Sorry y'all I know this is super obviously dwlee scum and all that but they've got me pocketed so I'll have to wait til f3 then in a shocking twist, suddenly reverse my read and save the day.

VOTE: T3

(For those who arent used to my brand of bullshit: I don't buy the Dwlee wagon at all)

I get wagoned Day 1 in at least 80% of the games I play, regardless of alignment.

Yeahhh i know. Id be super keen for an egix or uglyduck wagon but we gotta exist in the timelines we gotta exist in.

[UglyDuck]

Broad strokes so people kind of know where I stand. Just gonna jump into it from here - if you have questions about previous shit I didn't address just ask:

Andante - Lots of interaction with literally anyone that is posting. They are driving the game, poking and prodding, but backing off when it is useless. They have too many interactions for me to go through and list them out one by one, but hard TR all in all.

Azaariah - Lots of interaction with Andante, then Retti and Scorpious. Whole first part of their game is the back and forth with Andante read. At first I was skeptical because of how they kind of open ended it with the "not dealing with Andante today" stuff. But then they continued to engage and came to the same conclusion I have so town points there. I do not like #95 where they say they "have thoughts on the game but will wait to say"... but also they voted for scorp in that post, so I guess not that open doored. I like their general playstyle and content to date... would like to know what the recent dwelee bit is about though.

JV/Dwelee - JV did essentially what I have done to this point, so not reading into that. DW I do not like the E-1, or more specifically I do not like asking for the claim. I agree with their logic that a hammer that early on would be pretttttyyyyy skummy... but then run that all back... why ask for the claim? That general logic does not seem to add up to me. That being said, I generally hate meta cases because they are an easy avenue for skum to push when they need something, so pushing against it is worth something.

Egix - null/town. No real reasons other than I give credit to owning to the back and forth with fua regarding people just commenting and defending. I feel like skum would dig more into that or just ignore it. Saying "too bad that's how I am" isn't really a fruitful avenue for skum talking about a fairly easily agreeable skummy thing.

fua - Just played a game with them and they were town. And at the beginning of the game I thought they had a few skummy comments, and I do again this time, so take it as you will.
I do not like this, because while it was on page 4 it was also their first post of the game. It was right after they said they didn't vote the way they did (but they did) so it feels just like... graspy.

i have some thoughts on the game but won't say them yet VOTE: scorpio

Your 'RVS vote' from page 4.
VOTE: Azaariah

... you know what I am writing this as I am doing iso's and while I do want that quote there noted, I am liking fua fine so I am just gonna stop and write them as town for now for me.

Natayla - I will let you know later today or possibly after a flip or 2 if I am still here. Suspicious for reasons I am not going to go into rn, but I would not lim here as of now.

Oman - Solid town read. They are clearly reading carefully in general and posting accordingly. Not a lot of fluff. Also, I just like the way they post.

Retti - While getting into it with a few people is not creating real 1v1s (which is good). General town vibes there all around.

Scorp - Yeah I am not voting here for anything up to this point. Makes me mildly suspicious of everyone that pushed them prior to their one skummy post which was the reads list. And even then, I pretty much agree with the post.

*getting tired*

T3 - no fucking clue.

TW - Town.

I will make sure to not fall behind again, sorry.

[UglyDuck]

Sorry y'all I know this is super obviously dwlee scum and all that but they've got me pocketed so I'll have to wait til f3 then in a shocking twist, suddenly reverse my read and save the day.

VOTE: T3

(For those who arent used to my brand of bullshit: I don't buy the Dwlee wagon at all)

I get wagoned Day 1 in at least 80% of the games I play, regardless of alignment.

Yeahhh i know. Id be super keen for an egix or uglyduck wagon but we gotta exist in the timelines we gotta exist in.

I'm here, I'm here. I am sorry, work was frikin nuts for the whole week and the weekend was just a mess.

[Natalya]

I agree. Why does that only come from town?

In the old meta I believe they just let the lurking keep going if they are mafia

[Natalya]

I don’t think it’s fair to call it a “bad reason”. You are basing that off of meta that I don’t have.

Saying it is a bad reason is not a criticism of you, I am saying that because I have been suspicious of dwlee for a while even before they put you at E-1 because of the lack of activity and solving intent and what has generally felt like scum complacency from their part, I chose not to push them to give them more time to get into this game, the way they tried to e-1 you made me feel queasy and begin to push them now rather than wait for later. I know you don't have the same level of experience with dwlee that I do so it wouldn't be fair for me to expect you to come up with that read, I say it's a bad read not because I think you are a bad player but because I want you to consider dwlee-scum a real possibility.

[Datisi]

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