Holiday Dance Party ---- Game Over

[GuiltyLion]

why I initially didn't vibe with early lily suspicion

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Right, so let's tackle this one. Datisi, seems the main thrust of your point is that you think a town!Lily should have been more interested/engaged with marci's content, rather than just like "oh yeah makes sense to me!" in 481

I can definitely imagine that being a scum response, so I don't think you're capital-W Wrong, but I can also imagine it coming from town, so it overall just doesn't weigh super heavily to me. Lily had already just spent (presumably) ~90 minutes between 429 and 469 reading the game and posting her reads, and then responded to marci's post another half hour later (with a few other posts/thoughts in between) and then dipping out of the thread not long after that. Given that context, I can imagine her as town being tired and/or lazy having already expended about 2 hours worth of mental energy on the game, reading marci's post, being like "yeah I guess this makes sense" and not bothering to add much more on top of it. It is inspiring pro town play? No, but I don't think I can say with a ton of confidence that town wouldn't do that there.

My other main thought was that I think

if marci is scum

, it feels unlikely lily is scum with her based on her posts. Her readslist is super marci-centric at a time marci was getting scumread, she basically asks half of the players in the game why they're suspicious/scumreading marci. Even if lily isn't a forum mafia vet, I can't see even a newbie scum tying themselves to a suspected buddy so blatantly like this with their first posts of the game. She also said she wanted to dance with marci and would leave if she ever felt marci is scum - I have to think if they're scum together this is like the worst possible S-S pair to arrange, regardless of who the four is, especially since again marci was already widely suspected.

She did offer to take any other proposal, which is a little ??, I don't think I like that in the context of everything else being about wanting to dance with marci, it's probably the main thing giving me pause.

and I can definitely imagine this being a scum!lily buddying/sucking up to a town!marci, so especially reading this with a bit more attention and thought I'm a bit more skeptical than I was initially. I wouldn't say lily is really a townread for me at all, and if marci was cleared as town I'd revisit this with more scrutiny, but I don't like hard scumread her in the way I do Cabd or a lot of LLD/Titus' posts

[Galron]

I can do this with every single Titus post about me but not gonna spam the thread

GuiltyLion immediately 180s his read when I come in. This is not unnoticed

wym? he still scumreads the slot doesn't he?

[GuiltyLion]

or RH9-Mala? idk there's other options, main thing I'm optimizing for is I'd just not want LLD/Galron

Did it ever get answered why GL had such a coniptition about LLD + Galron?

Leaving this by itself bc important

it should be pretty obvious in context? LLD was on the defensive after I had suggested it was scummy for her not to accept marci's proposal, and that I'd be willing to be left behind or vig marci if it meant Cabd slot was flipped. Out of nowhere, Galron proposed to LLD and claimed he wanted her to endgame. Does that not seem bizarre to you?

Dunno why it's so bizarre or why it got the reaction it did.

dude, you can't be serious. you yolo proposed with no lead-up to it at all, like you'd barely mentioned LLD, and then said you'd bet the game on her being town. That's bizarre. There's no progression and no reasoning at all why you're so confident an extremely skilled player like her is worth betting the game on as town, before you even have any flips.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Save the Dragons & Titus have paired!

[Firebringer]

Okay GL try to get ur point across in one or two paragraphs pls

[Titus]

taly
galron, gl, lld
datisi
catboi, prism, andante
rh9, dragons, cabd, mala
alyssa, fb, marci

Taly
GuiltyLion, Datisi
RH9
Alyssa the Lamb, Firebringer, Catboi
NorwegianboyEE
Galron, Andante
Malakittens, Save the Dragons, Marcistar
(Something_Smart, Titus) Angielily,

Rh9 is suddenly a bigger townread than Catboi who has been bleeding town since page 10 or so.
Your read on my slot plummeted for no reason other than I agreed with LLD (or so it seems)
Your Alyssa read jumped when her posts should be driving the read down, not up. Particularly with her Titus is town but kill her anyway.
Galron sunk for inexplicable reasons.
You somehow have Cabd down low and haven't engaged with anything SS wrote.
StD is somehow at the bottom.

Your reads at the end resemble a copy/paste from activity overview.

Just who would your pairings be?

p sure i've given explanations for some of these already

rh9: doing the same things he did in the anon dance game, slow to scumread, just tossing out townreads and null. like, the same exact mindset and i think that he'd be harder pressed to try and scumread people as scum
catboi: i don't think catboi is bleeding town, i think that datisi + gl are but catboi's /fine/.
my read on you plummeted because of the circumstances of you repping in, which is a shitty thing that i can't explain but also, the assumption that i have as to why it happened means that i think you and ss have high odds to be scum. your reads being like this + you pushing on same things that lld adds onto it but it's not the catalyst for my read dropping
what has alyssa done that's scummy? my issue with her was that she spent most of the early game joking about being scum and not doing anything but popping in and out and then she kicked it up and she's been good even if i don't agree with everything she's said
galron was originally high up (and i already explained this) because i liked a point that he made wrt wording used by datisi, it felt like a sincere questioning... and then he completely failed to follow up on it and i didnt even realize that until datisi pointed it out to me. and then he was being weird for like the rest of the game posting weird stuff + i've made it clear i'm ??? at this already lol
for cabd the last game we played together he repped in and caught the entire scum team, i was waiting for him to actually post reads + push something before i passed judgment since the only thing that happened was his outburst and then he went afk. ss is in the same spot you are because of the rep ins
and at that point i don't think std had done anything transparently towny and i still dont think hes super towny but he's okay.

like i feel like you're trying to frame this as activity when there's stuff that happened btwn those two lists that makes it... obvious what/why i might do something. and i don't understand how you're seeing this and then putting it as a comparison to activity

rh9: I found that particularly scummy. Scum want to please everyone and offend no one. A readslist without scum does that.
catboi: Now you're just playing semantics. Catboi's town. We both know he's town and you're still putting him lower than GL. Fullstop no. Even if you townread GL. He's just legit drowning the thread because people equate words with effort.
My slot: Well, the OOG thing is kinda garbage. I can't respond to that. However, look at the last team mafia game. I espoused the exact same view. LLD is never wrong when that confident. The fact that I agreed with it as I did my read is gravy. I would have sheeped LLD but disagreed if she said anyone but Taly was scum with that much fervor. For a man that likes meta, you surely haven't used it at all. That's precisely what OoG is. Meta. It's also garbage.
Alyssa: How has Alyssa "kicked it up good"? I want specifics, because her last posts have been trash.
Galron: This is partially fair on why Galron dropped. Galron has an agenda of somesort. If I'm wrong on one of my reads, I could see Galron being scum here. I don't get the move to try and link to an impulsive LLD though. He's got an agenda but it makes no sense for either team and I default to that being town.
Cabd/SS: Burden of proficiency is garbage. OoG is garbage. You ignore SS. Your read here is just garbage.

[GuiltyLion]

Okay GL try to get ur point across in one or two paragraphs pls

sorry I am definitely being rambly but I'm trying to be Thorough

I'll keep it more brief in my Andante post

[Galron]

i need to reread to figure out why Titus is so invested in GL. Did she just read LLD posts and be like "this was a good case"? cause i didn't think it was....

and yeah more words doesn't equal more effort but GL been pretty responsive/proactive where if u see his scum game its reserved and more calculated. Like i don't see how this is scum

I'll eat my hat if GL is town.

What about the Titus scum GL town world? is hat still getting eaten?

More support of GL

[Galron]

Titus, would you care to dance with me?

This is an offer I'm excited about.

Taly?

Why do you need Taly's approval? I already didn't TR LLD and I'm not TRing you right now for asking, like if you are excited, go for it?? what's the issue

I like to work with my townreads and have a full gamestate picture. Otherwise, I likely accept Galron's proposal because it caused so much drama. He wanted to retract it though so it would have been curious how he adapted.

Just wanted a reset w/ so many new replacements.

[Firebringer]

Galron r u saying andante is pocketing/white knighting GL here. Cause that’s what it looks like

[Ydrasse]

calling me a man and then calling stuff i say garbage when i'm trying to explain what i think. lol.

whatever not going to cry over this tonight. will respond tomorrow. bye.

[Firebringer]

Okay GL try to get ur point across in one or two paragraphs pls

sorry I am definitely being rambly but I'm trying to be Thorough

I'll keep it more brief in my Andante post

Ftr I agree lily scum more likely in that pair than Marci scum and lily town
I don’t think it means much with no flips with the association tho

[Titus]

i need to reread to figure out why Titus is so invested in GL. Did she just read LLD posts and be like "this was a good case"? cause i didn't think it was....

and yeah more words doesn't equal more effort but GL been pretty responsive/proactive where if u see his scum game its reserved and more calculated. Like i don't see how this is scum

I'll eat my hat if GL is town.

What about the Titus scum GL town world? is hat still getting eaten?

More support of GL

Andante's probably the townbeard but could be s v s. I'll give you that. I think it's too overt for S v S.

[Titus]

calling me a man and then calling stuff i say garbage when i'm trying to explain what i think. lol.

whatever not going to cry over this tonight. will respond tomorrow. bye.

You don't actually think it though. You're hiding behind OoG to stop from having to explain things.

I don't think we need to talk more. I wish I was around to stop Taly from bonding with you.

[Firebringer]

Have a good night ydra

[Titus]

Good night. I like you out of game Ydrasse. Sorry you and GL rolled scum.

[Galron]

I had exactly one Point of Concern with Prism before the exit from the game, which was her suggesting she'd be okay pairing me with Taly. Forgetting that we're both Gentlemen aside, it's a bizarre suggestion to make from her perspective because me being teamed with an IC is a totally guaranteed nightkill death if I'm town and basically a complete waste. (suggestion she'd be okay with me being with cabd was also a bit of a head-scratcher).

Weird reasoning to me. What is different about a you-me pair that does not apply to any other pairing I have with town?

Seems tremendously wasteful to just consign me to get NKed if town, from her POV. Would think I'm more worthwhile than that.

Math-wise, it is actually close to a conflip from my POV that there are 0-1 scum in the gentlemen, because I know my alignment and I know Taly's.

Galron read is the one I could most see myself getting bitten on because the reasoning is flimsy but I admit that, not saying he's locktown or anything.

I mean, when I said "there's 4 gentleman scum" people lost their minds and told me that's impossible, so wouldn't it also be not likely all 4 are ladies? Saying 0-1 is like.. yeah nah what's the point?

I can explain the math to you if you really want (I assume most people in this game aren't big enough nerds to care) but it is significantly more likely that there are 0-1 scum in the gentlemen from my POV than 4 scum from your POV. 0 is unlikely but still possible.

Seems to be a running theme this game (also a good sign I'm town). What disappoints you? Do you think I should be townreading you?

no but i think you sus all my trs and tr all my suses

Go on?

---

I think marci has moved into being pretty clearly town from her recent posts, not sure if people are skipping them or what but I feel like that ought to be acknowledged more.

Last post from me for the night. As I said, I'm limiting my output from here on out (although I cheated a little today). Back tomorrow. Feel free to leave me questions.

5/5

[Firebringer]

Wait am I townbeard too? I have been saying GL is town longer than andante…maybe not as loud but I have been saying it

[Galron]

Last post from me for the night. As I said, I'm limiting my output from here on out (although I cheated a little today). Back tomorrow. Feel free to leave me questions.

5/5

This self-imposed post count restriction seems weird given you're using multi-quote.

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Alyssa, I should have asked this before, but I reacted emotionally.

What does my death tell you about the game state? Specific reads only since you felt my death would be valuable.

1. It quantifies whether the scumteam are looking to do an SvS pairing, since I strongly suspect that it's an LLD pairing if it is
2. A town LLD flip directly checks each of the slots that were looking to pair with her, making their flips more valuable for determining what scum were looking to do this game
3. It neutralizes one of the black sheep slots for GuiltyLion, who is one of my townreads
4. Even if I do believe you can be +town as town, your scumgame is also still strong enough at manipulating the game that I don't believe the potential strengths outweigh it, especially since I don't see that part of you every game

basically it's the single biggest flip that provides the most information for what the scumteam's strategy is throughout the game in a way that no other flip does

[GuiltyLion]

Why Andante is town

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I still think my early reason for townreading Andante is really good. Andante comes in scumreading multiple gentlemen, my question for Andante scum readers is

why would scum be scumreading players they need to propose to them?

. scum Ladies are going to be sucking up to town!Gents and trying to pocket them, especially to try to live as long as possible. Opening the game by claiming to SR Fire and Dragons when they'd barely done anything just doesn't feel like something Andante benefits from as scum unless she's exactly scum with one of those players

I think the emotion in 208 is more likely to be genuine. I don't think scum would be that reactive to early suspicion and I don't think they'd go so low as claiming to be in tears when the game literally just started. Like if you're scum and you're playing that card 200 posts into the game it's just embarrassing, right? Maybe I'm just a sucker for AtE but the execution of that one feels pure to me.

Also, 491 feels real honest to me too and naturally fits with what Andante already did herself in the game? I'm always looking out for if people's mindset matches their actions and this is something I don't think scum needs to post or thinks to post. 621 just another transparent self-aware post in the same vein, I literally cannot remember a single time I've seen scum openly say they were forcing their own reads.

I also think if I'm wrong on Andante she won't be able to keep up this freestyling play style and I trust if FB is town he'd catch her in the PT. And I got a pretty decent townread on Fire as well, so I just see this as a pretty self-resolving pair of two slots that managed to pair first without it feeling premeditated or agenda-driven at all.

I'd maybe dip into the paranoia well about a Fire/Andante S-S pairing if like, all of S_S/Titus/marci were town and it was obvious something was deeply wrong, but I think limming these two first over many of the more skeevy and manipulative slots would be a huge error, and the odds of both of them being scum are very low in a vacuum already

[Galron]

you just looked for the longest post so you could call it that... I almost always say way more words than needed, like, it feels like how GL genuinely plays, meaning you're SRing GL off of playstyle, which isn't alignment indicative

More GL support

[GuiltyLion]

Galron, if you think Andante/GL is S-S, do you think Andante's play is good or logical play if I'm going to flip scum at some point in the game

[GuiltyLion]

ok I'm gonna try to like read up now and maybe give another general reads post

[Galron]

Galron r u saying andante is pocketing/white knighting GL here. Cause that’s what it looks like

possible partner