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[fua]

Well. This is a lot to come back to.

Excuse me for a second while I catch up.

[fua]

Retti, just for clarification— have you ever played a game with Dwlee before? I’ve played with both Town Dwlee and Scum Dwlee, and I personally don’t really feel like this is scum-motivated play rather than town being messy and not caring about the way they’re read.

[Retti]

Retti, just for clarification— have you ever played a game with Dwlee before? I’ve played with both Town Dwlee and Scum Dwlee, and I personally don’t really feel like this is scum-motivated play rather than town being messy and not caring about the way they’re read.

No which is why I'm metadiving (because everyone is citing meta either as a defense or an attack) but I don't get why the play can't be scum-motivated especially if they know people are going to defend them for it

[Dwlee99]

You played with me in MBOS

[Natalya]

Your case on me is "you E-1'd someone as scum shortly after replace in" like that is a case at all

Meta is bad, especially if you aren't even going to look at any town games

This is just a strawman.

I have already addressed this before.

You repeating this means you are doing this performatively to try to spam the thread.

[Natalya]

viewtopic.php?t=88034&f=51&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

This is a trust fall game that was already solved before you replaced into it

[Dwlee99]

Your case on me is "you E-1'd someone as scum shortly after replace in" like that is a case at all

Meta is bad, especially if you aren't even going to look at any town games

This is just a strawman.

I have already addressed this before.

You repeating this means you are doing this performatively to try to spam the thread.

Or I think your case is shit

cause it is

[Dwlee99]

viewtopic.php?t=88034&f=51&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

This is a trust fall game that was already solved before you replaced into it

Like I read it enough to know that

I solved ydrasse town

[Natalya]

Or I think your case is shit

cause it is

I don't particularly care what you think of my case

[Natalya]

Like I read it enough to know that

I solved ydrasse town

Using that as a counter example is pretty bad misrep.

[fua]

Excluding Meta, can someone summarize the case on Dwlee for me again?

[Retti]

You played with me in MBOS

oh right

I forgot about that because I was in a hydra and depressed and could barely focus and wound up embarrassingly quitting

I guess that gives some perspective

[Natalya]

They are not actively solving, they seem to be moving their vote from wagon to wagon based on who is easiest to kill/where the momentum is moving.

the progression from sheeping T3 by putting Scorp at E-1 and then voting T3 for T3's vote/push on Scorp is particularly egregious in terms of not making any sense.

They then moved off T3 before T3 even responded to vote for UglyDuck.

[Dwlee99]

Actually that's not even anywhere close to a strawman, you're full of shit

I say you are citing meta to scumread as an alt, and you say oh no I have meta and you quote a game saying I didn't solve on replace in and E-1'd someone. That's not a strawman, that's literally your case.

You cited ONE scum game, NO town games, to say something I do is scum-indicative. That's bad, even for how bad meta already is by default.

But anyway, that's your case, and when I challenge it you just ignore me and claim I'm spamming and have "already addressed" it. No you haven't, your meta argument is dog water

[Dwlee99]

They are not actively solving, they seem to be moving their vote from wagon to wagon based on who is easiest to kill/where the momentum is moving.

the progression from sheeping T3 by putting Scorp at E-1 and then voting T3 for T3's vote/push on Scorp is particularly egregious in terms of not making any sense.

They then moved off T3 before T3 even responded to vote for UglyDuck.

Just because I don't make sense to

you

doesn't mean it doesn't make sense to

me

[Retti]

Forget that for a moment, fua can you tell me what your actual reads are right now? Just in a list, no reasoning.

[Natalya]

When confronted with this, they are defending by strawmanning the case against them by reducing it to "meta bad" when they know there's more to it then this.

Their defensive responses feel pointless except to thread-spam and make things look unreadable.

There's no real curiosity behind their questions, most of them seem designed to combat/fight off the push.

They have not expressed strong preference for UD or made a strong case for elimming UD because I don't think they are actually that interested in anything other than survival.

[Natalya]

Actually that's not even anywhere close to a strawman, you're full of shit

When you reduce a case down to "meta bad" when it's mostly about your actions this game, it's the definition of a strawman.

[Natalya]

You cited ONE scum game, NO town games, to say something I do is scum-indicative. That's bad, even for how bad meta already is by default.

This is literally not what I did.

Someone said they townread you for something you did this game.

I disagreed with that townread and cited a case when you did it as scum as a counterexample.

So at best the thing they are townreading you for is NAI as you have exhibited this behavior in the past.

[Dwlee99]

You cited ONE scum game, NO town games, to say something I do is scum-indicative. That's bad, even for how bad meta already is by default.

This is literally not what I did.

Someone said they townread you for something you did this game.

I disagreed with that townread and cited a case when you did it as scum as a counterexample.

So at best the thing they are townreading you for is NAI as you have exhibited this behavior in the past.

this was AFTER I said you couldn't cite your meta on me

And then you cited that and said "oh why would you think I wouldn't cite my meta !!"

Okay so did you cite your meta or did you not?

[Dwlee99]

When confronted with this, they are defending by strawmanning the case against them by reducing it to "meta bad" when they know there's more to it then this.

Their defensive responses feel pointless except to thread-spam and make things look unreadable.

There's no real curiosity behind their questions, most of them seem designed to combat/fight off the push.

They have not expressed strong preference for UD or made a strong case for elimming UD because I don't think they are actually that interested in anything other than survival.

I don't have a strong preference for UD because THEY'VE MADE LIKE TEN POSTS THIS GAME

[Retti]

You played with me in MBOS

oh right

I forgot about that because I was in a hydra and depressed and could barely focus and wound up embarrassingly quitting

I guess that gives some perspective

Now that my memory is jogged, I guess the thing abos MBOS was that I found you town there because you were so visibly disinterested in it in a way I didn't think would come from scum but here it's felt less like being bored and directionless, more like going along with whatever people are doing? Eh I'll give it a reread even though I don't want to

[Natalya]

But anyway, that's your case, and when I challenge it you just ignore me and claim I'm spamming and have "already addressed" it. No you haven't, your meta argument is dog water

I literally addressed it here:

dwlee-scum really is that obvious

Meta and on an alt? Double strike, be careful for the third pitch

I am replying to Scorp saying that he is townreading you for being "too obvious"

My point is that it is a bad reason to townread you because I've seen you be extremely obvious scum in the past.

Do you disagree on that being a bad reason to townread you?

I have made it clear to you I am not casing you off meta. I am simply rejecting the townread that Scorp threw at you for doing something that I have seen you do in the past as scum.

You literally replied to this post.

So you know I am not casing you off Meta. But you continue to lie and say I am casing you off Meta.

[the worst]

I have a weird feeling t3 is town this game but if he isn't he is in my head get out of my head get out of my head get out of my head

T3 & Egix switched over in my reads at some point

I don't necessarily think uglyduck is scum for those reads (actually felt like, does scum really make a list with literally no scumreads?) but don't mind the pressure there at all and want to see how he responds.

Still working on rereading, have time today so should be able to get that done eventually.

Not litigating, just explaining my mindset. I think it's semi typical of scum who aren't certain how to enter a gamestate. We're kinda pushing lurkers, who ugly is either aligned with or knows are town but they aren't like.... good lims, just good wagons. I think not feeling comfortable pushing lukewarm popular reads is a pretty safe position. I think ugly would struggle to pick a spicy take style scumread. This gamestate is fairly inaccessible and I think Ugly might be hoping someone will access it for him. Not necessarily a scummy trait, but I think not owning it tends to weakly indicate a guilty mindset as well.

Tldr hard to say but I think it can definitely come from scum.

Ehh. From what I’ve seen scum are much more afraid to actually put scumreads on their lists than town are, so I’m not sure. Might just be a difference in experience, though.

Once again I'm reading a fua post and wishing I'd made it.

[Natalya]

this was AFTER I said you couldn't cite your meta on me

And then you cited that and said "oh why would you think I wouldn't cite my meta !!"

Okay so did you cite your meta or did you not?

Me citing meta has nothing to do with whether I believe you are scum off meta.

this argument is completely pointless and I'm fairly sure only scum!you would pursue this angle to try to make the thread unreadable.

I will no longer be speaking to you.