Newbie 2086 - Reaction GIFs | End!

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 1-4

butterchurn

(2): V0ID, ɀefiend

GeorgeBailey

(2): Not Known 15, catboi

notscience

(2): butterchurn, Cape90

ahhlo

(1): GeorgeBailey

Cape90

(1): notscience

Not Voting

(1): ahhlo

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to eliminate.

Deadline: January 4, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2022-01-03 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

-

[Not Known 15]

I am not seeing anything AI right now.

[butterchurn]

VOTE: Not Known 15

Seriously? I know it's a slow game so far and it's holiday season, but surely you're capable of at least putting one single thought out there.

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: Not Known 15

Seriously? I know it's a slow game so far and it's holiday season, but surely you're capable of at least putting one single thought out there.

Yes. Everything you have talked about so far is NAI, and the responses also look like NAI so far.

[notscience]

But regardless, cape is probably fine.

What are you seeing that I'm not?

Slight scumread on this. A little parrot-y, and just feels to me more like trying to manufacture reads and content rather than natural thoughts, while also leaving himself open to go in either direction on the topic. It just feels fake.

I think something a lot of newer players struggle with (moreso as town) is finding these tells, and tend to latch on to things others say. I remember feeling very overwhelmed my first game and definitely took the word of my SEs and ICs as gospel (I just revisited it yesterday, and it brought some memories back).

Right there was 12 as well. You know, two one liners that I started the game off with.

I'm not the one who claimed it was off one post, Cape.

But his entrance yesterday felt very inorganic, very forced, especially when I compare it to his early ISO in this game, where he is cracking dumb jokes and feels very relaxed overall comparatively.

Really cool. You literally could have started with that instead of

Actually, I agree with catboi.

VOTE: Cape

Which is absolutely hilarious that you wouldn't assume I wouldn't start assuming things. I call that out as bull as it is the type of post specifically formulated to invoke the type of assumptions I was making

It's almost like I intentionally made vague statements to see if someone reacts to me by prodding for more information? To kickstart a game that had only managed about a post per hour it had been open, and is now three times the length since my entrance.

The entire point of this game is to get information and work with the right people to get a read. By holding that back (and clearly I had it! If you had asked instead of jumped I would have gladly articulated), I gave an opportunity to try and read you, to read the reactions of others around the interaction.

Answer is no. What I meant more was, the push just felt of someone capitalizing on something that I did that was scummy.

If you know what you did was scummy, why is it weird people have an issue with it?

Well, I don't really care about the reasons anymore. I mean, if NS wants to afford an explanation for these past FoSs, fine, indulge me. But I'm gonna take it with a grain of salt since at worst it's retroactive reasoning and at best it's probably stale information by now.

To answer your question, I immediately side-eye SEs hard lurking in a game they should be taking the lead on. Apathetic gamestates are notoriously easy for scum to manipulate, as it typically ends in a deadline scramble based on who is willing to go where. I've also played opposite alignment to NK15 in both of our completed games together, and remember more action from him as town. It is rather stale meta, and it is on my list to go flip through some other games of his today.

Essentially, catboi did the textbook *right* play and trying to develop discussion is >rand town, but it is a very simplistic read (hence the lack of me bringing this up prior to now).

I think I have a finished game with GB but I think he was in a hydra and I don't remember which game nor which hydra it was.

Don't ever again try to use a weak post like #29 as evidence of activity, or being better than someone else's blurb, or I will vote-park on you faster than you can say 'thots.'

It was a quick side comment as I went into the gym and was not at a computer, but wanted to throw thoughts out there. Compared to most of what came before, it

was

activity. You can vote me if you like, I'm a fairly difficult mis-elimination but I always welcome the challenge.

I feel like this type of wording comes from scum more often than not. Town can be uncertain about their reads but the language here feels overly cautious in a way that reads more like someone who doesn't want to have the "wrong" opinion.

It read to me like someone entirely new to the medium not knowing what tells are and aren't important

and I like that Void listens to me

. I kind of see your point, though. I think it's a nuanced thing that will be clearer down the line in the game, but that comment kinda falls in line with how readily Void trusts me? You remember when you first started out, unsure of what exactly to look for? The word of the more experienced players carried more weight for me.

I suppose I'd be looking for a bit more gridlock/deer in headlights if he was scum here?

RE: further VOID discussion, I was hesitant to let myself find his response suspicious partially because to me it seemed like it would be a particularly bold (read: dumb) scum play to respond to a charge of having wishy-washy and manufactured-sounding content with... more of the same tone, and even more extreme hedging. It certainly could be new player not sure how to effectively play scum, but to my eyes it also believably reads as new town who is lacking confidence in their own thoughts, and remaining consistent in that.

It does seem like an easy (albeit fair) thing to pick on, though, and I was interested to see who would.

This is exactly what I am seeing WRT Void- my first inclination is to townread butter for this, I do admittedly worry it's white knighting, but I think it's more likely to be from town.

Also Catboi and notscience took the suspicion on me in 2 different directions with 1 backing off and one doubling down

And one hasn't really expanded on it, which is weird considering your initial problem with me was my lack of expanding on it?

VOTE: Not Known 15

Seriously? I know it's a slow game so far and it's holiday season, but surely you're capable of at least putting one single thought out there.

Yes. Everything you have talked about so far is NAI, and the responses also look like NAI so far.

Is the game really this easy?

At the moment, my reads look like this.

Void
Butter

catboi
zefiend

GB
ahllo

NK15

Cape

[Not Known 15]

Cape, why did you think it was someone taking advantage of a scummy post instead of someone thinking that the post identified as scummy came from scum?

[butterchurn]

Cape, why did you think it was someone taking advantage of a scummy post instead of someone thinking that the post identified as scummy came from scum?

This is... just a repeat of what notscience said. And apparently prompted by him saying it, since you only asked it after his post. Not sure that really counts as an original thought, but thanks for trying. The weird thing is, I'd think either alignment would be trying harder than this. But if it was from a town perspective, I'd guess the most likely reason would be lack of caring. That doesn't really mesh with trying to fake/force it, like he does here.

[notscience]

If anything, it makes me more confident with my reads.

VOTE: NK15

Lend me your swords, catboi and Void.

[Not Known 15]

Cape, why did you think it was someone taking advantage of a scummy post instead of someone thinking that the post identified as scummy came from scum?

This is... just a repeat of what notscience said. And apparently prompted by him saying it, since you only asked it after his post. Not sure that really counts as an original thought, but thanks for trying. The weird thing is, I'd think either alignment would be trying harder than this. But if it was from a town perspective, I'd guess the most likely reason would be lack of caring. That doesn't really mesh with trying to fake/force it, like he does here.

But it is not a repeat, at least not exactly. And even if it were, it is not buried in a long post but a question directly addressed to Cape.

[Cape90]

You can vote me if you like, I'm a fairly difficult mis-elimination but I always welcome the challenge

For the most part, I feel like this post commenting on a bunch of things is fine and I think I agree with what they were saying about Void and all that in terms of them probably being town.

But ew.

You seeing this? Usually I like defending LAMIST posts as NAI to leaning town, but this ain't it.

Will have coherent thoughts on this in like 5 hours or so

[Cape90]

You can vote me if you like, I'm a fairly difficult mis-elimination but I always welcome the challenge

For the most part, I feel like this post commenting on a bunch of things is fine and I think I agree with what they were saying about Void and all that in terms of them probably being town.

But ew.

You seeing this? Usually I like defending LAMIST posts as NAI to leaning town, but this ain't it.

Will have coherent thoughts on this in like 5 hours or so

Response to entire wall I mean

[Cape90]

Cape, why did you think it was someone taking advantage of a scummy post instead of someone thinking that the post identified as scummy came from scum?

I assumed this with catboi, but something just felt

off

with notscience's treatment of my slot and afformentioned posts

[Cape90]

I am not seeing anything AI right now.

VOTE: Not Known 15

Seriously? I know it's a slow game so far and it's holiday season, but surely you're capable of at least putting one single thought out there.

Yes. Everything you have talked about so far is NAI, and the responses also look like NAI so far.

How can you not have opinions on anything that has gone on this game?

[notscience]

You can vote me if you like, I'm a fairly difficult mis-elimination but I always welcome the challenge

For the most part, I feel like this post commenting on a bunch of things is fine and I think I agree with what they were saying about Void and all that in terms of them probably being town.

But ew.

You seeing this? Usually I like defending LAMIST posts as NAI to leaning town, but this ain't it.

Will have coherent thoughts on this in like 5 hours or so

It’s personality, frankly. I’d invite you to fact check but my isos typically are fairly extensive, but I’ve never been one to shy away from anything

[notscience]

viewtopic.php?p=12157572#p12157572

Me, in the secret tunnel hydra

There’s more but most of my isos are long as fuck and I don’t feel like wading through

[ahhlo]

i don tknow who to vote

[ahhlo]

vote: georgebailey

[butterchurn]

i don tknow who to vote

The game isn't just about voting. Explain your thoughts on things you've read. Anything that stood out to you, anything that looked suspicious, anything that looked like something a town player would be more likely to do, etc.

[Cape90]

It's almost like I intentionally made vague statements to see if someone reacts to me by prodding for more information? To kickstart a game that had only managed about a post per hour it had been open, and is now three times the length since my entrance.

The entire point of this game is to get information and work with the right people to get a read. By holding that back (and clearly I had it! If you had asked instead of jumped I would have gladly articulated), I gave an opportunity to try and read you, to read the reactions of others around the interaction.

My concern with this is... well why? What's the point in being vague about it? (BTW there literally is none ¯\_(ツ)_/¯). Why would I squeeze this out of you instead of just assume things? Literally, who wouldn't just take your words at face value and believe there isn't ANYTHING deeper then what you had originally put out? How does it give opportunities to try and read me or whatever? You clearly don't have a problem reading my reaction and the reactions of others around the interaction, that literally happened either way.

If you know what you did was scummy, why is it weird people have an issue with it?

I wouldn't take an issue with it if I thought you were town. It almost feels like you are

overplaying

this day 1, does that make sense? Like you have a mission or something, like you are like... stiff and aggressive.

This for instance

To answer your question, I immediately side-eye SEs hard lurking in a game they should be taking the lead on. Apathetic gamestates are notoriously easy for scum to manipulate, as it typically ends in a deadline scramble based on who is willing to go where. I've also played opposite alignment to NK15 in both of our completed games together, and remember more action from him as town. It is rather stale meta, and it is on my list to go flip through some other games of his today.

Feels like an over justification for

I’m side eyeing GB and NK15 atm, the former more than the latter.

IDK like, it makes sense to me that you'd keep an eye on those players who you know more then Newbies who... you know... are new, at least here.

Also I think I agree with most of both you and catboi (60) on V0id at least to a degree, which probably just makes V0id town IMO.

And one hasn't really expanded on it, which is weird considering your initial problem with me was my lack of expanding on it?

you know I am not confused on why catboi initially voted me right? Like that's not the issue here. I don't find you scummy just because you didn't expand on your scumread of me. My vote/suspicion on you on 32 and my subsequent posts shading you were really to just see how you would react. It is pretty clear that my vote on you is a lot shallower then your vote on me. Honestly, didn't gleam too much I guess besides what I have already spoken.

viewtopic.php?p=12157572#p12157572

Me, in the secret tunnel hydra

There’s more but most of my isos are long as fuck and I don’t feel like wading through

You seem pretty different here then you are here IMO. I mean, yes, it was like a year ago, but are there more reasons for this?

[Cape90]

If anything, it makes me more confident with my reads.

VOTE: NK15

Lend me your swords, catboi and Void.

So, you swapped you vote. Why are you off me?

[fferyllt]

The holiday weekend is now in full swing. I will not send out prods for the next 48-50 hours

Have a happy and safe weekend and if you celebrate, enjoy!

[catboi]

RE: further VOID discussion, I was hesitant to let myself find his response suspicious partially because to me it seemed like it would be a particularly bold (read: dumb) scum play to respond to a charge of having wishy-washy and manufactured-sounding content with... more of the same tone, and even more extreme hedging. It certainly could be new player not sure how to effectively play scum, but to my eyes it also believably reads as new town who is lacking confidence in their own thoughts, and remaining consistent in that.

It does seem like an easy (albeit fair) thing to pick on, though, and I was interested to see who would.

I don't know if that really says anything to me, someone who's new isn't going to be so precise in writing their posts as to immediately change things up when called out on something, if he doesn't know how to fake reads convincingly he'll just keep on doing what he's doing.

To explain, I did notice that even before you posted about it. I just did not think it was worth mentioning at the time since notscience did participate by calling those two out and it wasn't just a "busy, will post later" post like cape's. But I still did notice a similarity. I thought it was worth mentioning once I saw that someone else did notice it and there might actually be something there.

I guess I am trying to make reads from the little we have. As for leaving myself open, I do lean towards a scum read on cape but you are right I could go in either direction as I am unsure about it.

I feel like this type of wording comes from scum more often than not. Town can be uncertain about their reads but the language here feels overly cautious in a way that reads more like someone who doesn't want to have the "wrong" opinion.

You are right to think that the wording/tone conveys one of being overly cautious. Because I was being overly cautious when I made those posts. But it was not that I did not want to be marked with having a certain wrong opinion as a scum. I guess I was just afraid of making the wrong read or messing up which seems silly now because making reads (that obviously could be wrong) is the only thing we can do as of now.

Being wrong is part of the game and if you're town there's no reason to be afraid of it, particularly on day 1

[notscience]

Spoiler: cape wall condensed

It's almost like I intentionally made vague statements to see if someone reacts to me by prodding for more information? To kickstart a game that had only managed about a post per hour it had been open, and is now three times the length since my entrance.

The entire point of this game is to get information and work with the right people to get a read. By holding that back (and clearly I had it! If you had asked instead of jumped I would have gladly articulated), I gave an opportunity to try and read you, to read the reactions of others around the interaction.

My concern with this is... well why? What's the point in being vague about it? (BTW there literally is none ¯\_(ツ)_/¯). Why would I squeeze this out of you instead of just assume things? Literally, who wouldn't just take your words at face value and believe there isn't ANYTHING deeper then what you had originally put out? How does it give opportunities to try and read me or whatever? You clearly don't have a problem reading my reaction and the reactions of others around the interaction, that literally happened either way.

If you know what you did was scummy, why is it weird people have an issue with it?

I wouldn't take an issue with it if I thought you were town. It almost feels like you are

overplaying

this day 1, does that make sense? Like you have a mission or something, like you are like... stiff and aggressive.

This for instance

To answer your question, I immediately side-eye SEs hard lurking in a game they should be taking the lead on. Apathetic gamestates are notoriously easy for scum to manipulate, as it typically ends in a deadline scramble based on who is willing to go where. I've also played opposite alignment to NK15 in both of our completed games together, and remember more action from him as town. It is rather stale meta, and it is on my list to go flip through some other games of his today.

Feels like an over justification for

I’m side eyeing GB and NK15 atm, the former more than the latter.

IDK like, it makes sense to me that you'd keep an eye on those players who you know more then Newbies who... you know... are new, at least here.

Also I think I agree with most of both you and catboi (60) on V0id at least to a degree, which probably just makes V0id town IMO.

And one hasn't really expanded on it, which is weird considering your initial problem with me was my lack of expanding on it?

you know I am not confused on why catboi initially voted me right? Like that's not the issue here. I don't find you scummy just because you didn't expand on your scumread of me. My vote/suspicion on you on 32 and my subsequent posts shading you were really to just see how you would react. It is pretty clear that my vote on you is a lot shallower then your vote on me. Honestly, didn't gleam too much I guess besides what I have already spoken.

viewtopic.php?p=12157572#p12157572

Me, in the secret tunnel hydra

There’s more but most of my isos are long as fuck and I don’t feel like wading through

You seem pretty different here then you are here IMO. I mean, yes, it was like a year ago, but are there more reasons for this?

I could have read the interactions after regardless, yes. But again, choosing the venue I did has (and clearly still is) sparked plenty of discussion. But you don’t really care for my answer here I don’t think.

”I have a problem with this because I think you’re scum” this is confirmation bias at best, hedging to fall back on later at worst. You understand the issue with this train of thought, right? You’re deciding on my alignment first instead of filtering the information through multiple lenses to try and solve.

I was asked to share the reasoning behind my initial thoughts. You can call it over justification, and maybe it does make sense after I explained it that I have experience with some of the SEs, but to someone who didn’t know or consider that it should make more sense looking back. (Hint: this is a quote striped response to zefiend who wanted to know why I said it)

So in any meta case you need to laser in on similar factors and take them into account. In the game I have linked, I fell under pressure from people who should not have been pressuring me (read:our lovely mod and comod) as they both are fantastic at reading me. That was my first game back with that group of people. Remember how catboi mentioned there’s certain playerlists that play around real-time interaction? Thats the group catboi was referring to.

Anyways, so I’m a bit more relaxed there in general because there are plenty of other personalities to take charge. Here, we needed someone to shove the game forward. (Also, I’m trying to be a good example here so y’all get serious mode. I can provide an example of serious meta from me if you’d like.

If anything, it makes me more confident with my reads.

VOTE: NK15

Lend me your swords, catboi and Void.

So, you swapped you vote. Why are you off me?

Two reasons.

1) There’s more than one scum alive, so it doesn’t super matter which one I take care of first.
2) I’m giving you time to try and do things on your own, and see what you do with your time.

[catboi]

Are you trying to make this difficult to read with those colors

[notscience]

My laptop is at home so I didn’t have an efficient way to quote stripe it