Holiday Dance Party ---- Game Over

[RH9]

rh9, can you make a readslist? no fancy tables or whatever, just a list to see where your mind is at.

Ok. A Vanilla one with no weird reasoning.

Real

Town: Taly, Alyssa, GL, Firebringer
Townlean: Datisi, S_S, Shiro, HQ, Galron
Nulltown: STD
Null: Titus, Andante, Ydrasse

Joke

Scum (because of marcistar interactions and 'weird' TR on her): RH9

[Datisi]

why does it seem like you are completely unbothered by the fact you, on page 205, have no scumreads?

[RH9]

why does it seem like you are completely unbothered by the fact you, on page 205, have no scumreads?

I have never had scumreads before a NKA as Town. Only as scum.

[Datisi]

weird flex but okay

[RH9]

Examples of what I might SR somebody would be not killing the IC because they are partnered with them (this only works if Ydrasse is scum or scum wants to make Ydrasse look bad) or NKing somebody out of fear or NKing somebody because they want to make somebody else look bad.

(The first hypothetical scenario brings the most SRs.)

[RH9]

Examples of what I might SR somebody would be not killing the IC because they are partnered with them (this only works if Ydrasse is scum or scum wants to make Ydrasse look bad) or NKing somebody out of fear or NKing somebody because they want to make somebody else look bad.

(The first hypothetical scenario brings the most SRs.)

The reason is because the first hypothetical scenario could bring in aspects of the other two, leaving the PoE to be {Ydrasse, people who want to make Ydrasse look bad and fearkilled another Pair, people who want to make Ydrasse and somebody else look bad, people who want to make Ydrasse and somebody else look bad as well as fearkilling another Pair}

[RH9]

But then, because it is hypothetical, we should not jump to conclusions.

[RH9]

weird flex but okay

And thank you for the compliment.

[Titus]

@Taly, Recency of an opinion has no validity. Alyssa has said it herself. I'm best when making townblocks.

As for the camps thing, I am open to being wrong. Also the environment may lead to town disinterest, which is a problem.

@Rh9, My thoughts have largely been stream of consciousness. Can you say what you think I should have observed?

You should have observed marcistar's attempts at pocketing and see if they could be like what Noraa did in Open 833, when you were still using your TA alt account. Remember how she tried to pocket STD.

Go on?

I'm curious though. What does maristar's pocket attempt have to do with Noraa though? Are you saying it's a global pocketing method? Who do you think she was pocketing and where? I'm generally bad with meta unless staring me in the face?

[RH9]

@Taly, Recency of an opinion has no validity. Alyssa has said it herself. I'm best when making townblocks.

As for the camps thing, I am open to being wrong. Also the environment may lead to town disinterest, which is a problem.

@Rh9, My thoughts have largely been stream of consciousness. Can you say what you think I should have observed?

You should have observed marcistar's attempts at pocketing and see if they could be like what Noraa did in Open 833, when you were still using your TA alt account. Remember how she tried to pocket STD.

Go on?

I'm curious though. What does maristar's pocket attempt have to do with Noraa though? Are you saying it's a global pocketing method? Who do you think she was pocketing and where? I'm generally bad with meta unless staring me in the face?

HQ thought that marcistar's somewhat successful pocket attempt made the victim suspicious. However, Noraa once tried to pocket STD and I thought the following with annotations.

Imagine

if Noraa and Save The Dragons are the Mafia

. (

At least, to me, Noraa's interaction with Save The Dragons, makes them fell Scum vs Scum

.)

Noraa was friendly towards Save The Dragons

despite being scumread by him. Now, I think that this

wasn't SvS

, but was probably a failed

pocket

by Noraa.

[RH9]

Despite one pocket attempt being failed and one being somewhat successful, both lead or can lead to wrong conclusions. I was once lead to the wrong conclusion before. My worry is that HQ might too. That is what I caught on. Pocket attempts can lead to false associations.
(Ignore my misspelling of 'feel'.)

[Titus]

Galron - Disrupted marci plan with LLD
Datisi
Catboi Shiro - Catboi was obvtown, Shiro has insane WIM outside of his range
Taly - IC
RH9
Firebringer - Personally against here
Save the Dragons - WIM, early mindmeld, scum objected to the bond


Ydrasse
GuiltyLion
Cabd Something_Smart - High WIM for SS,
angielily Harley Quinn
Alyssa the Lamb - Alyssa suggesting marci tilted is unlikely svs as it undermines scum.
Adante
Lady Lambdadelta Titus - Me, I feel that the push to force LLD to bond with marci clears me.


Pool is Ydrasse, GL, Datisi, Fire, Adante, Rh9.
Ydrasse isn't getting limmed.
Limming Rh9 is not going to happen w/o a strong case bc sacrificing Alyssa.

this is like, actually bad
- what was marci's plan with lld? suicide and take down town!lld with her? how is this not something that could be orchestrated so that scum!galron (who also wasn't in a great position iirc) also proposes so that town!lld has more opportunities to accept scum?
- catboi was not obvtown and how is shiro obvtown here? he's done nothing his push on me is nothing
- std has wim? where?
- how is alyssa suggesting marci tiltproposed unlikely as svs because it undermines scum, but gl and i are likely scum after we basically drove the marci wagon? marci was already in a shit position when alyssa said that. either bussing is unlikely or it's likely. you can't have it both ways
- push to bond with marci by whom? gl? that's just preflip which is wrong anyway

like the only people i see the "clears" on are fire and s_s, this poe is otherwise built on such shaky foundation?

Marci may have had many plans. There's obvious two that jump out. Ride LLD coattails and suicide. If you're suggesting marci and galron joined together to suicide, then that makes me town as I am lld. However, Galron undermined marci's attempt (whatever it was) by offering an alternative to LLD. This didn't seem to be expected given GL's response. Galron's actions only served to undermine marci. Unless they felt marci had absolutely failed at their purpose, then Galron's town.

StD has WIM in the PT and in public prior to the holiday.

I haven't determined who "drove" the marci wagon but reading alignment based on "driving" is problematic on two fronts. First, it's hard to tell who was the intended elimination target. From what I saw it was Norway. That doesn't necessarily mean town or scum was driving it. We have many different questions to answer on that factor. If town drove Norway, then it was a happy circumstance that marci got flipped and scum were towards the back possibly after they failed to save Norway. If scum drove Norway, then they likely didn't want his opinions to catch on. If town drove marci, then it's likely scum are on the back. If scum drove marci, then scum are on the front. It's also difficult because the two are related. If Norway has good reads, marci's more expendable. To really get a grasp of that wagon, it takes a bit more than just oh I was in front and hit scum. It's something I plan to start to untangle but it's not clear given two slots die.

As for Alyssa, that reaction is relatively pure. In addition, their explanation, although I hated it, made some sense.

[Titus]

Rh9, I hate to be that person but your last two posts aren't making sense. Can you try again?

[Datisi]

If you're suggesting marci and galron joined together to suicide, then that makes me town as I am lld. However, Galron undermined marci's attempt (whatever it was) by offering an alternative to LLD. This didn't seem to be expected given GL's response. Galron's actions only served to undermine marci. Unless they felt marci had absolutely failed at their purpose, then Galron's town.

i'm suggesting it's possible, and i'm asking why you, who is allegedly town to yourself, are ignoring that possibility. i guess it would follow you and galron are unlikely both scum.

it was not expected, no. and i don't think it was looking likely that lld was gonna accept marci anyway, so i still don't see the "harm" in scum!galron doing what he did there

[Datisi]

is std's vote on my pair anything other than shallow omgus or? i see he said he needs to reasses gl and i don't see that that actually happened prior to voting us

[Harley Quinn]

first game town lost and we have no IC. Congrats on win Nancy
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=78670

So skimming this game and ND's ISO, there's an entirely different vibe from her than in this game. She is measured in tone, she deals in facts, and there is litte AtE from her. RC correctly called her out as scum pre-pairing, and she gave him a townread, in fact an obvtown read. Earlier than that she was getting scum read by Firebringrer and Ankamius, and while she did show some emotion from that, it wasn't as near as prolific as it has been this game. ND was Danniflor's partner and had him pocketed. And there was a point where she apparently threatened to rep out because she didn't want to go off on FB and get banned I guess, but she decided against the rep out. But the clarifaction on the rep out thing happened post-game. Taly (town) and S_S (town) were also in that game. Merchant's Daughter for those who care. ND top posted that game with 1100 posts, nearly doubling 2d place.

Doesn't appear that the scum PT was released, so I couldn't go through that. I looked through S_S's and Doubting Thomas's PT, and while it is just 2 pages, which is similar to mine and S_S's PT, S_S was much more into sharing his thoughts than he has been in his and my PT, which I find interesting and worth thinking about. Link here.

I looked through Firebringer and Vedith's PT, which is one page, and there isn't much in there from FB other than he wanted ND killed. Link here.

In that game Ankamius even links to another ND scum game where he correctly read her as scum (link here where the confrontation started), and while she does the scum read him back thing, it's not near as strong and emotional as her omguses have been in this game. Titus was scum with her in that game. And shiro was there too, but was town, and it wasn't a dance game. I didn't read all 73 pages of the scum PT, but I did see where Titus encouraged ND to express emotion (this post). But that was pre-Titus rebirth I believe, so I don't know how valid that is for this game. And, again, ND does show some emotion, but not near what HQ is doing in the instant game. That game was Heroes Wanted. ND had nearly 1400 posts that game, 2d most.

My takeaways:

1. HQ more likely town this game because of the raw emotional posting and prolific self-metaing (something else that was somewhat lacking in those other two games);

2. I need to reassess my TR on S_S because something is different even if it appears the WIM is high as it was in Merchant's Daughter.;

3. I need to reassess Firebringer because apparently there's a party going on in his PT with Andante, and that wasn't there in Merchant's, but could be he didn't click with Doubting Thomas?; and

4. I should ISO Titus in Heroes Wanted, both the game thread and the scum PT.

UNVOTE:

Maybe it is SS? Him shouting at me to get off my “high horse” was probably one of the most antitown things I’ve ever read in any game ever. He was essentially arguing that I should just lay down and die and accept our slot being miselimed. Short of outright toxicity or rule breaking, why the fuck would I ever - short of actually being lobotomized - ever do such a thing, especially with my hard tr on Shiro? He was also on the hard discredit Harley’s read on Shiro wagon and I think that pinged me as possibly disingenuous.

[Something_Smart]

do you think i'm an executioner here? do you think my wincon is eliminating harley and shiro? because of those two are t/t, they are a PERFECT tool for the scumteam. bullshit some nonsense reason that they're town, kiss their ass, they'll townread me, defend me, attack anyone who attacks me, and keep creating noise once people inevitably get paranoid of them.

Well, if they were T/T they would have to die for your wincon. And if they will never vote each other then the later it gets the harder it will be to kill them.

[Datisi]

there's better times to do that than when my pair is in the hot seat. and i would have 3 other buddies who would be able to do that.

like, my preferred tactic of dealing with them would still probably be pocket, lead them onto a bad yeet, let town kill itself, but eh. obviously i'm arguing hypotheticals that may or may not be possible so not sure if it's worth the time.

[Datisi]

wait, 2 other buddies, marci is dead. keeping track of a hypothetical scumteam is difficult. you get the jist.

[Something_Smart]

This looks really bad for Galron. Choosing the towniest player then wanting them to endgame.

What's bad about that? Town also want to pair with town and endgame, if possible.

[Titus]

I'm liking Datisi's tone lately.

[Datisi]

is std's vote on my pair anything other than shallow omgus or? i see he said he needs to reasses gl and i don't see that that actually happened prior to voting us

titus, has this been addressed in the hood? because it sure has not been addressed in the main thread

i'm assuming 5120 to mean you're starting to lean town on me, and i'm confused how does liking my tone overcome all the other issues you've had with me?

[Something_Smart]

I looked through S_S's and Doubting Thomas's PT, and while it is just 2 pages, which is similar to mine and S_S's PT, S_S was much more into sharing his thoughts than he has been in his and my PT, which I find interesting and worth thinking about.

That was mostly during intermission. I don't think I posted much in there afterward.

[Something_Smart]

I don't get the point of taking info from a game 2 years old, people change

This too.

[Something_Smart]

Him shouting at me to get off my “high horse” was probably one of the most antitown things I’ve ever read in any game ever. He was essentially arguing that I should just lay down and die and accept our slot being miselimed.

That's not what I meant. I wanted you to stop implying that you were going through something horrible that I could never understand.