Newbie 2086 - Reaction GIFs | End!

[Greeting]

Although

Not Known 15

has ultimately showed up and answered some questions, I am still not convinced that their content isn't manufactured at the very last minute. I don't have very much enthusiasm and many hopes for this slot, but I am otherwise okay with them being flipped.

[Greeting]

That vote puts NK15 at E-1, correct?

Yes, that would be E-1.

[Not Known 15]

I am on E-1. Please do NOT vote me, but say "Intent to hammer" if you want to vote for me.

In 198 when talking about zefiend and catboi; I had a gut feeling that this came from scum because they seem to have ai content to me and the way NK15 is hedging feels bad here.

The problem is that you can't prove negatives.

Butter- I liked his NK15 vote in 77. But the main reason for the strong townread is his thoughts on Void in 66, because it's a good articulation of why Void seems so town in general. That's the kinda tightrope I'm referring to above. Similar trains of thought mean similar motivations aka similar alignment.

Hey, played a lot of similar format mafia in the past on a different site, so I have some experience but not with this site's meta and culture. And it's been 8 years, so I'm probably rusty (and also excited to get back into it). We were generally pretty anti-RVS, but that seems to be the standard here.

The tightrope does not apply to butter.
The vote on me is obviously not AI, easy to replicate as non-newb scum
But that could be a mistake, and everything else seems ok. Notty is a bit higher in my reads now(still maybe scum), and now to the player who went down like a stone.

I don't have very much enthusiasm and many hopes for this slot, but I am otherwise okay with them being flipped.

A logical inconsistency. This "but" does not belong there at all, if you

I don't have very much enthusiasm and many hopes for this slot

then that is not something that precludes me being flipped. It does not belong on the other side of "otherwise".
Does this come from town? No, town would not be in that mindset. Not having many hopes/enthusiasm would not be booked as good for my slot.
Does this come from scum? Yes, as a perspective slip. Scum like players who appear, to them, to be failing town.

VOTE: Greeting

[ɀefiend]

Spoiler: catboi fluff

Hai noddy, make the game easy for me if you're town~

Are you trying to make this difficult to read with those colors

+ some more one-liners throughout the game with no real value. I consider fluff. Fluff is NAI but it annoys me especially when its wedged in the middle of some good discussion.

[Greeting]

I honestly don’t understand your argument. I re-read what I had written and nothing is „logically inconsistent” here. If I didn’t think there was nothing to vote you out for, I wouldn’t be doing it.

Nor do I care about this really, the overall sound of it is desperation. Your previous vote also sounded quite desperate to me. And now that interest in the

notscience

wagon faded, you’re clinging to anything you can find. That’s sad, huh?

It would be, however, advisable to announce intent to hammer before it is done.

[Greeting]

The above post was meant to be a response to @

NK 15

.

[ɀefiend]

If someone hadn't mentioned you were an SE I wouldn't have known because your activity is dreadful. Someone else mentioned your posts look "easy to make" as scum and I tend to agree. You come across as lazy scum at worst and lazy town at best.

yes yes, that was me

VOTE: ɀefiend

I think your walls kinda feel to grandiose while me getting a queasy feeling that you know more then you should

Ok. Can you answer this now please?

You can vote me if you like, I'm a fairly difficult mis-elimination but I always welcome the challenge

For the most part, I feel like this post commenting on a bunch of things is fine and I think I agree with what they were saying about Void and all that in terms of them probably being town.

But ew.

You seeing this? Usually I like defending LAMIST posts as NAI to leaning town, but this ain't it.

Will have coherent thoughts on this in like 5 hours or so

Why? If you explained this and I missed it, feel free to just quote it. But if not, why is this LAMIST post different?

[ɀefiend]

I like both of those posts for the most part. I also felt questionable about cape's latest, and it appearing potentially opportunistic is a good point that I hadn't considered.

Was leaning towards suspicion with GeorgeBailey, now trending slightly the other direction

.

That vote puts NK15 at E-1, correct?

Because of Dunn's intro or because of something else?

[notscience]

Hi Dunn!

[Not Known 15]

Nor do I care about this really, the overall sound of it is desperation. Your previous vote also sounded quite desperate to me. And now that interest in the notscience wagon faded, you’re clinging to anything you can find. That’s sad, huh?

Is no one else seeing the perspective slip?

[Not Known 15]

viewtopic.php?p=12157572#p12157572

Me, in the secret tunnel hydra

There’s more but most of my isos are long as fuck and I don’t feel like wading through

You seem pretty different here then you are here IMO. I mean, yes, it was like a year ago, but are there more reasons for this?

This is actual research.... while others took it at face value.
Slight townlean.

[Greeting]

Nor do I care about this really, the overall sound of it is desperation. Your previous vote also sounded quite desperate to me. And now that interest in the notscience wagon faded, you’re clinging to anything you can find. That’s sad, huh?

Is no one else seeing the perspective slip?

No, enlighten us.

[Greeting]

I know two other players in this game, that is

catboi

and

Cape90

. However, both are acting differently to what they did in the respective games I knew them from (

catboi

from Newbie 2081 and Newbie 2082;

Cape90

from Newbie 2084). Therefore I cannot get a good read of either. So far this hasn't changed.

Cape90

is definitely more bold and uh... lively, while

catboi

feels less invested, even if he is more active than most players in this game. Perhaps I just don't really feel any of the directions which

catboi

seems to be on in this game.

Speculating on the possible reasons for this further would put me too far into meta territory and I wouldn't like that. It's too early for me to call town or scum for either having the knowledge of their past play that I have.

So I took a different route.

When I joined this game, there were three major candidates at E-3:

butterchurn

,

Not Known 15

and

notscience

. I read, or maybe more accurately skimmed the three cases. The

butterchurn

wagon didn't appeal to me at all, so I removed it from my mind entirely early on, plus this player is the closest I have to an early soft townread in this game.

The case on

Not Known 15

appealed to me more than the other. Especially since

notscience

seemed to have been much better in explaining their motives for their vote choice, it was logical and to me felt like a direction I could go towards. So I joined it.

Then,

Not Known 15

suddenly woke up and started posting. The more they post, the more they show that they don't care who goes down today - as long as it's someone else. In 156, they basically repeated the old case on

notscience

, based around their overconfidence and cockiness. While I can agree that this is odd in this phase of the game, to me it is more indicative of a playing style rather than being scum. Which is why I didn't buy into that case originally, as this seemed to me the sole reason for them having a wagon on them in the first place. Nonetheless, their reasons for joining the wagon felt artificial and, in the context of the situation, like a desperate attempt to save themselves by joining the most promising competing wagon.

But then the situation changed. Suddenly,

notscience

isn't being voted out anymore. And

Not Known 15

finds themselves on E-1.

Not Known 15

needs a backup plan, now! So here comes

Greeting

, let's make a case on them based on supposed new facts coming from their last two post and make it sound urgent!

That's the story told from my perspective.

[butterchurn]

I honestly don’t understand your argument. I re-read what I had written and nothing is „logically inconsistent” here. If I didn’t think there was nothing to vote you out for, I wouldn’t be doing it.

I see it, although it looks more like just weird phrasing to me. You said you don't have much hopes or enthusiasm for their slot (implying either that they are scum or that they aren't useful town, I guess? I realize now you may have meant something else by this, in which case please clarify), and then said "but otherwise" you would be okay with flipping them. One would expect that the clause prior to "but otherwise" would be some counterargument or hesitation to them being flipped. The sentence would make more sense if you used a word like "so" instead of "but otherwise", since the first half implies the second, at least how it reads to me.

That said, I don't entirely see it as coming from scum perspective, as I don't think it makes a lot of sense there either. It just feels like a grammar/phrasing mistake -- or an unclear first clause which is being misinterpreted. There was another one in the last sentence of what I quoted -- the triple negative is one too many. You're saying "if i thought there was something to vote you out for, I wouldn't be doing it", which is clearly not what you meant, but also to my eyes not really a scum-indicating grammar mistake.

[butterchurn]

I like both of those posts for the most part. I also felt questionable about cape's latest, and it appearing potentially opportunistic is a good point that I hadn't considered.

Was leaning towards suspicion with GeorgeBailey, now trending slightly the other direction

.

That vote puts NK15 at E-1, correct?

Because of Dunn's intro or because of something else?

Yes, from the two posts he made. GeorgeBailey seemed generally useless at best, and low-effort mafia at worst. Dunn's first posts on their own seemed insightful and I generally agreed with them, which to me is a much more positive sign for that slot's alignment. It's not much content so it's not a strong lean at all, but essentially his posts took him from "still suspicious here" to "willing to give this a relatively fresh slate".

[Greeting]

I honestly don’t understand your argument. I re-read what I had written and nothing is „logically inconsistent” here. If I didn’t think there was nothing to vote you out for, I wouldn’t be doing it.

I see it, although it looks more like just weird phrasing to me. You said you don't have much hopes or enthusiasm for their slot (implying either that they are scum or that they aren't useful town, I guess? I realize now you may have meant something else by this, in which case please clarify), and then said "but otherwise" you would be okay with flipping them. One would expect that the clause prior to "but otherwise" would be some counterargument or hesitation to them being flipped. The sentence would make more sense if you used a word like "so" instead of "but otherwise", since the first half implies the second, at least how it reads to me.

That said, I don't entirely see it as coming from scum perspective, as I don't think it makes a lot of sense there either. It just feels like a grammar/phrasing mistake -- or an unclear first clause which is being misinterpreted. There was another one in the last sentence of what I quoted -- the triple negative is one too many. You're saying "if i thought there was something to vote you out for, I wouldn't be doing it", which is clearly not what you meant, but also to my eyes not really a scum-indicating grammar mistake.

Yeah, I do use weird phrasing sometimes. English isn't my first language.

What I meant by that post was:

"There is stuff pointing towards

NK 15

being scum, but (at the time) I'm feeling kinda sceptical about it. And that is because in my experience it's uncommon to hit a scum, plus they had rather few posts at the time."

Perhaps I should have added that second sentence, because otherwise this could have been read as "I don't think that

NK 15

is scum, but yet I'm okay with them being flipped", which is not what I meant. But still, my other posts before then gave a few hints as to why that was my choice.

Their last actions, however, made me feel a lot more confident that this is a good direction. When, at the time, their backing of the

notscience

wagon could have been easily brushed off, them desperately attempting to make a case on me while being on fire makes perfect sense from a scum point of view.

[Greeting]

EBWOP

*uncommon to hit a scum Day 1

[Greeting]

Now that I think of it,

Not Known 15

's argument on me was in really bad faith. Instead of asking me to clarify, they decided to grab the opportunity and blow it out of proportion. If that isn't scum indicative then I don't know what is.

Now I'm perfectly happy with

Not Known 15

going down.

[butterchurn]

Hmm. I was thinking you would say that the first clause meant "I don't have much hopes/enthusiasm that knowing the alignment of this slot will give us much information due to their minimal posting". That, at least, makes sense coming from a town perspective, and was what I meant when I said I realized I might have misinterpreted.

With your explanation, though... I actually am a little suspicious of it, since based on how you explained what you meant, it reads instead as potentially pre-emptively distancing yourself from the result that you're voting for. And following that narrative, once that draws attention and potentially some suspicion, your play would likely be to just go all in on NK15 and give up on your original expression of doubt, which is what you've done. I wasn't particularly suspicious before, and still am not enough to vote or anything (especially since this case depends on NK15 being town, which I'm currently extremely skeptical of), but I do at least see a potential scum-aligned reasoning behind this pattern of posts and that concerns me.

[Greeting]

With your explanation, though... I actually am a little suspicious of it, since based on how you explained what you meant, it reads instead as potentially pre-emptively distancing yourself from the result that you're voting for. And following that narrative, once that draws attention and potentially some suspicion, your play would likely be to just go all in on NK15 and give up on your original expression of doubt, which is what you've done. I wasn't particularly suspicious before, and still am not enough to vote or anything (especially since this case depends on NK15 being town, which I'm currently extremely skeptical of), but I do at least see a potential scum-aligned reasoning behind this pattern of posts and that concerns me.

What is missing here is that

NK 15

isn't 100% on their out yet - they're still at E-1. Why would I be distancing myself from a result of something that may not even come? I sincerely hope that there is someone out there who will hammer them though.

[butterchurn]

In case it was unclear, by distancing I didn't mean distancing from a scum partner (I realize that's how it's often used, perhaps it was a poor choice of words on my part), I meant how you were expressing doubt on a wagon that you had already joined. If NK15 did get eliminated and flipped town, I would read that behavior as scum. And of course you would do it before his elimination is guaranteed, because doing it later and drawing attention to it is much more obvious and suspicious. From 2084 you didn't seem like the kind of player to hedge your bets or fence sit very much as town. If you were suspicious of someone you tended to have a bit of confirmation bias and twist more reasons into suspicion, and see anything through that lens (mostly noticeable when you made a case on marcistar). In this case it felt like the opposite.

But again, I'm still most suspicious of NK15, and if he is eliminated and ends up being scum, this point would be irrelevant, and I would probably townread you instead. So all told, I'm not that suspicious now, but it did stand out to me as a pattern of scumplay if certain conditions end up being true.

[Cape90]

If someone hadn't mentioned you were an SE I wouldn't have known because your activity is dreadful. Someone else mentioned your posts look "easy to make" as scum and I tend to agree. You come across as lazy scum at worst and lazy town at best.

yes yes, that was me

VOTE: ɀefiend

I think your walls kinda feel to grandiose while me getting a queasy feeling that you know more then you should

Ok. Can you answer this now please?

You can vote me if you like, I'm a fairly difficult mis-elimination but I always welcome the challenge

For the most part, I feel like this post commenting on a bunch of things is fine and I think I agree with what they were saying about Void and all that in terms of them probably being town.

But ew.

You seeing this? Usually I like defending LAMIST posts as NAI to leaning town, but this ain't it.

Will have coherent thoughts on this in like 5 hours or so

Why? If you explained this and I missed it, feel free to just quote it. But if not, why is this LAMIST post different?

Oh my bad, not sure how I just kept glossing over that. This one feels different to me because I feel like it actually has this reverse effect where notscience worded it in a way where it actively discourages votes on them.

[Cape90]

I know two other players in this game, that is

catboi

and

Cape90

. However, both are acting differently to what they did in the respective games I knew them from (

catboi

from Newbie 2081 and Newbie 2082;

Cape90

from Newbie 2084). Therefore I cannot get a good read of either. So far this hasn't changed.

Cape90

is definitely more bold and uh... lively, while

catboi

feels less invested, even if he is more active than most players in this game. Perhaps I just don't really feel any of the directions which

catboi

seems to be on in this game.

Speculating on the possible reasons for this further would put me too far into meta territory and I wouldn't like that. It's too early for me to call town or scum for either having the knowledge of their past play that I have.

So I took a different route.

When I joined this game, there were three major candidates at E-3:

butterchurn

,

Not Known 15

and

notscience

. I read, or maybe more accurately skimmed the three cases. The

butterchurn

wagon didn't appeal to me at all, so I removed it from my mind entirely early on, plus this player is the closest I have to an early soft townread in this game.

The case on

Not Known 15

appealed to me more than the other. Especially since

notscience

seemed to have been much better in explaining their motives for their vote choice, it was logical and to me felt like a direction I could go towards. So I joined it.

Then,

Not Known 15

suddenly woke up and started posting. The more they post, the more they show that they don't care who goes down today - as long as it's someone else. In 156, they basically repeated the old case on

notscience

, based around their overconfidence and cockiness. While I can agree that this is odd in this phase of the game, to me it is more indicative of a playing style rather than being scum. Which is why I didn't buy into that case originally, as this seemed to me the sole reason for them having a wagon on them in the first place. Nonetheless, their reasons for joining the wagon felt artificial and, in the context of the situation, like a desperate attempt to save themselves by joining the most promising competing wagon.

But then the situation changed. Suddenly,

notscience

isn't being voted out anymore. And

Not Known 15

finds themselves on E-1.

Not Known 15

needs a backup plan, now! So here comes

Greeting

, let's make a case on them based on supposed new facts coming from their last two post and make it sound urgent!

That's the story told from my perspective.

Ya, I feel like I am approaching day 1 here more similarly to day 3 there

[notscience]

I prefer to think of it as a challenge and less discouraging

[Not Known 15]

In case it was unclear, by distancing I didn't mean distancing from a scum partner (I realize that's how it's often used, perhaps it was a poor choice of words on my part), I meant how you were expressing doubt on a wagon that you had already joined. If NK15 did get eliminated and flipped town, I would read that behavior as scum. And of course you would do it before his elimination is guaranteed, because doing it later and drawing attention to it is much more obvious and suspicious. From 2084 you didn't seem like the kind of player to hedge your bets or fence sit very much as town. If you were suspicious of someone you tended to have a bit of confirmation bias and twist more reasons into suspicion, and see anything through that lens (mostly noticeable when you made a case on marcistar). In this case it felt like the opposite.

But again, I'm still most suspicious of NK15, and if he is eliminated and ends up being scum, this point would be irrelevant, and I would probably townread you instead. So all told, I'm not that suspicious now, but it did stand out to me as a pattern of scumplay if certain conditions end up being true.

Well, I simply didn't think about it being a grammar mistake, but that makes sense. I follow you here though, that it is scum-indicative.
Well, so if someone decides give Intent on me I guess Greeting goes down at least. Hopefully as scum.