Open 840 - Guardians of the Fortress [Game Over]

[VP Baltar]

I linked my last game with Ari earlier. It had me + Ari + Tanner (on his main, Datisi), all three were town

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87284

That is what I have been comparing her to.

I looked through Aris ISO in this game a bit last night and it really does not look like her iso here at all. In that game she is actively questioning several people. She has reads that can be seen and shifting under questioning. There is some of the gimmicky stuff, but much less.

Now compare to this game, it is 80% gimmick and her reads come out of nowhere for flimsy reasons.

[VP Baltar]

Implo, had you been suspicious of Ari before I posted?

[VP Baltar]

Tanner, do you know what Ari's main is? No need to tell me. Just wondering yes or no.

[VP Baltar]

What have you done this game with a pro-town motivation?

I organized a badass sort. Doesn't get more obvtown than that.

Can you explain this in more detail please?

also you didn't respond to this so I am reposting it.

Please let me know how your sort is "pro-town" motivated.

This has been discussed at length in the thread. I didn't respond because it is a busy work question. My reasoning for organizing and why I think it is clearly protown given Tanner's now known alignment has already been stated.

[VP Baltar]

Personally, I think Tanner should be able to town read me easily this game

can you explain this a bit more? why should tanner be able to correctly figure out that you are town?

This question is still open, you can see the line of questioning it led to here:

Personally, I think Tanner should be able to town read me easily this game

can you explain this a bit more? why should tanner be able to correctly figure out that you are town?

Tanner has played with town me a shit ton. I'm not that hard to read.

Here is my town meta: Am I doing things with pro-town motivation? If yes, I am town.

What have you done this game with a pro-town motivation?

What have you done this game with a pro-town motivation?

I organized a badass sort. Doesn't get more obvtown than that.

Can you explain this in more detail please?

I want to drill down to exactly why VPB thinks Datisi should be able to townread him.

His answers feel evasive to me.

Again, this has already been discussed in the thread. I'm not going to help you fluff up your ISO by repeating myself after I called you out for not scum hunting.

Find original lines of inquiry and I'm happy to answer.

[Aristeia]

This has been discussed at length in the thread. I didn't respond because it is a busy work question. My reasoning for organizing and why I think it is clearly protown given Tanner's now known alignment has already been stated.

Alright if that's how you want to play this.


Is there anyone else in this thread who can explain to me how VPBaltar's sorting is clearly protown?

[VP Baltar]

Tanner wanted me and imaginality in the same game based on his scum reads, so that was the first building block I put in place when I suggested the sort.

I don't understand this tbh

What do you mean? Like why I would make that decision?

I don't understand your thought process

I was thinking Tanner had expressed strong feelings in thread, so it was something we could test. If Tanner is town, then I want to follow his instincts because they are much better than my own in early game. I also think the move shows my own townieness because I'm willing to go into a game based on someone else's decision. Of course, I also made the proposed move to include Tanner because then it isn't exactly what he wanted, in case he was scum.

I didn't see a lot of downside to that move and several upsides.

If Tanner is town, then I want to follow his instincts because they are much better than my own in early game.

How did you decide that town!Tanner's instincts are much better than your own instincts in early game?

Haha, well the game we just finished had Datisi going after scum Ico and me getting chained to them so much D1 that it cost town the game. Plus Datisi gets killed as town on N1 in many games I'm in. I think that speaks for itself

Haha, well the game we just finished had Datisi going after scum Ico and me getting chained to them so much D1 that it cost town the game. Plus Datisi gets killed as town on N1 in many games I'm in. I think that speaks for itself

How does Datisi being able to read Ico very well translate to the rest of the players in this game?

I'm saying datisi is better at scumhunting D1 than me and I am frequently wrong. It's not particular to Ico (though of course they have their own reputation).

Or do you just mean you wouldn't go anywhere near tanner if you were mafia?

Tanner scum reads me often, even though I think I've only ever been scum with them once before (maybe twice, cant remember)? Most times, Tanner comes around to read me properly, but not always. If I'm scum, that seems like a bad gamble for me. Even as town, it is risky, but I do think I have consistently been able to read Datisi town in games we have had together, so that's the upside for me. If I feel like I can consistently get an accurate town read on datisi and they end up being town this game, that's an easier sub game for me.

why would you go "i was gonna follow tanner there bc his early game reads are better than mine" when my early game read was that you're scum with imaginality?

Well I know I'm not scum, but that doesn't mean you're not right about imaginality. Much to Ari's disappointment, I don't see you as perfect. Just better than me.

Tanner, I see your posts. I need to make some breakfast and then I'll respond to those next.

@Ari - here is the short of it: I incorporated the desires of a now confirmed town player as the fundamental building block of how I sorted. Additionally, Tanner has a tendency to scum read me in almost every game we play, at least for a little while. Yet, I added Tanner to my own game, knowing that would be the case. There is no legitimate reason I would do any of that as scum...and I'd actually call that poor play on my part if I was scum. It's so obvtown from my perspective, that I think it is incredibly annoying I'm having to repeat it again.

[VP Baltar]

Sorry, didn't mean to quote all those posts, but those are examples of where you were asking me similar questions. Like, this stuff is not hard to find in my ISO

[VP Baltar]

okay, here we go. why do you think i should be able to Easily townread you?

Well first and foremost, as I stated above, there is no clear scum motivation for my D1 play, and plenty of protown motivation. From trusting your reads more, to being cautious to not get duped by you...I think my sort was a very smart way to try to form an alliance with you and easily win us a game if you were town. There's just no way I'd do that as scum. It's too risky, and that's not really how I play scum.

Second, you have seen town me a million times and I'd hope you can read me somewhat at this point. I think you have an embedded suspicion of me because I had one good scum game against you the first time we played...but like, I've been town with you so many more times

[VP Baltar]

i'm kind of a broken record here, but - why would this not make sense for scum!you to do? like, you worked with my reads to suggest a game sort, sure. and my reads on day one were pretty clearly "vp and imaginality can be buddies, but imaginality is much scummier than vp". like, what about what you did on day 1 makes no sense for scum!you to do?

You don't give easy passes to anyone. Including you in my game is fundamentally making the game harder for myself.

[VP Baltar]

NumberQ, can I get your thoughts on the exchange between Implo and Ari?

[Tanner]

Tanner, do you know what Ari's main is? No need to tell me. Just wondering yes or no.

i believe i do, but i don't know for sure.

[Tanner]

so, am doing the thing that i said so many times i don't do. i'm looking up second hand meta for the only game i know of vp where he was scum in a 1v1. and you know what i'm getting from this meta research? absolutely nothing! yet i'm still doing it!!

[Tanner]

i finished my research! it did not help at all!

[Tanner]

and that's not really how I play scum.

though, i did find a few "if i were scum i would totally not be doing this haha" in the game i read, so... how would you have played this if you were scum, then?

[VP Baltar]

so, am doing the thing that i said so many times i don't do. i'm looking up second hand meta for the only game i know of vp where he was scum in a 1v1. and you know what i'm getting from this meta research? absolutely nothing! yet i'm still doing it!!

Did I win at least?

[Tanner]

no, it was the triple strongman buddy with dunnstral game.

[Tanner]

i think it's likely baltar is townie too. 11, 49, and 57 are obviously angling to go to the same location as me. he knows how paranoid i get of him and how i'm sometimes prone to think he's scum for most bullshit reasons, see that pick your poison game. so unless he's the same petty asshole i am, he's probably town.

this is a post that i myself did write a week ago i GUESS

i'm starting to wonder why did i even /in into this game, considering i utterly hate lylos as town and have never won one when i was the deciding vote. i think i might really be a masochist.

Going to the gate means you don't have to do that

do you remember what the idea was behind this post?

[VP Baltar]

and that's not really how I play scum.

though, i did find a few "if i were scum i would totally not be doing this haha" in the game i read, so... how would you have played this if you were scum, then?

Think I would have tried to go to the keep. I think I can usually get town read enough as scum to not be on the bottom. Probably would depend on my buddies though and what their strengths are.

[Tanner]

...you mean wall?

[VP Baltar]

do you remember what the idea was behind this post?

I actually don't? It doesn't seem to make sense since they are all xlos?

[VP Baltar]

...you mean wall?

Yeah sorry.

[Tanner]

i hate being the deciding vote, not playing yelos period. probably doesn't matter because i can't see how it's alignment indicative for you anyway but yeah

does scum!vp see that one dumbtell kinda worked and tries to force more of them? rhetorical question, don't have to answer that.

[Lukewarm]

I could conceivably be convinced that Pavowski is a better vote but I don't know if anyone is really making that argument.

I see your post explaining why you think Ari is scum, but what makes you think that Pav is town? Or is that just the inverse of thinking Ari is the scum in the keep?

[Lukewarm]

I'm happy to vote for Luke if Tanner approves of it.

but if Luke is scum I want Implosion/VPB to die.

Does your thinking here work in the inverse(s)?

If we flip the keep first, and I flip town, does that make implo and vpb town from your pov?

Or, if we flip one of them first and implo or vpb flip scum, will that make you think that I am scum?