Newbie 2086 - Reaction GIFs | End!

[Dunnstral]

I don't think whether zefiend is technically a newbie or not really matters as much as how comfortable they are with the game. (The newbie rules are kind of wonky now that it's been brought up, though).

I think Cape is the better vote right now, I don't see the 'conviction', I thought they were scummy day 1, and I don't think their arguments make sense on day 2.

VOTE: Cape90

Dunn, your suspicions at this time (as best as I can gather) included Greeting, Cape, and Void. What made you decide Cape was the "better vote" out of those 3?

I'm not sure about greeting after the slapfight with zefiend. I feel that Cape's arguments don't make sense and they are overreaching in their push.

[catboi]

I don't think whether zefiend is technically a newbie or not really matters as much as how comfortable they are with the game. (The newbie rules are kind of wonky now that it's been brought up, though).

I think Cape is the better vote right now, I don't see the 'conviction', I thought they were scummy day 1, and I don't think their arguments make sense on day 2.

VOTE: Cape90

Dunn, your suspicions at this time (as best as I can gather) included Greeting, Cape, and Void. What made you decide Cape was the "better vote" out of those 3?

I'm not sure about greeting after the slapfight with zefiend. I feel that Cape's arguments don't make sense and they are overreaching in their push.

Asking again: Why did you think he was scummy day 1, and what arguments of his don't make sense?

[Dunnstral]

For day 1:

Gut says zefiend's re-engagement with the thread is scumposting but nothing I can really express in a tangible fashion to anyone else in this game

UNVOTE:

If someone hadn't mentioned you were an SE I wouldn't have known because your activity is dreadful. Someone else mentioned your posts look "easy to make" as scum and I tend to agree. You come across as lazy scum at worst and lazy town at best.

yes yes, that was me

VOTE: ɀefiend

I think your walls kinda feel to grandiose while me getting a queasy feeling that you know more then you should

I don't like 215 because I suspect it may be trying to take advantage of 208. It is unclear to me what Cape90 takes issue with, feeling too grandiose as they said isn't very compelling

This plus the pushing against notsci which was prompted by notsci pushing cape (I believe) left a bad impression on me

The argument that doesn't make sense is that he said I was towny in a game where I was scum, but in this game I'm not towny but I'm also scum, there isn't a logical progression, it is basically saying I can be scum whether I look towny or not, but there is no real reason behind it. They don't have good reasons to suspect me either, but they are going all in. It feels fake.

[ɀefiend]

Nothing's changed my take on Greeting:

• OMGUS
  
• Central argument of "Does this look like a person working through the game by 'association'?" is still ignored and in fact strengthened by continuing to cling to semantics and rules
  
• Threatening to self-hammer. Seen this song and dance too many times from scum.

What's actually interesting to me at the moment is Cape's 180-flip on me. Somebody (Dunn or Butter, maybe?) said it makes sense. But a 180-flip is a rare occurrence for town, in my opinion. Scum are more likely to flip opinions on a whim.

I think it could be Cape sensing pressure on Greeting and getting ready to distance. This whole VOID thing is beginning to look like a red herring cooked up by Greeting.

[butterchurn]

I'm not sure how the Void thing could be cooked up by Greeting. catboi has been the main one pushing it. What makes you say that?

[ɀefiend]

Greeting claims to be willing to vote out VOID today despite so heavily focusing on "one scum must be an SE"

Greeting lended support to catboi's effort on VOID out of nowhere. It is one of the things I called out in my wallpost.

[catboi]

OMGUS
Central argument of "Does this look like a person working through the game by 'association'?" is still ignored and in fact strengthened by continuing to cling to semantics and rules
Threatening to self-hammer. Seen this song and dance too many times from scum.

OMGUS isn't a scumtell. townies often respond poorly to being scumread.

I think your argument about "playing the game by associations" is significantly inflating a single post he made where he tried to take an different approach to looking at the game and using it as an argument against him whenever he deviates from it. I find this incredibly uncharitable.

Threatening to selfhammer is also a behavior that frequently comes from town. Do you really believe it to come from scum more often than not? (for the record, with greeting exhibiting a track record of doing this as town I agree with butterchurn that doing it here isn't necessarily a towntell. I'm not defending him on that basis. But arguing the behavior is more scum-indicative than not is demonstrably untrue in the case of Greeting)

[catboi]

I did not get a chance to do the project I wanted to do today but given that we are over halfway to the deadline, I believe some attempt to consolidate wagons should start soon. I will try to have more tomorrow.

[Cape90]

Alright Dunn, BET my suspicion on you is based on nothing and it's fake.

Also saying your not towny does imply that you are scummy yes. I was not implying that you feel anti-town but still working in town's best interests or however else you decide to interpolate that.

Let's talk about it. First, I already addressed 222 as I literally said that 208 and 215 have no connection to each other, I ignored the post when I made 215. But please shade me later on in 527 for that same post, you really are helping yourself to becoming outed mafia to me. Bolded already resonds to the second part of this funny post.
I find 323 pretty easy to fake. Just kinda feels like a nothing burger being like, "ah well, I played with these players before and they are town, therefore they are town exs dee, since I am busy spewing both of them as town with this, hopefully they will pocket me ". Yes I know this section is dramatized, I am just showing how I read this part, even if this isn't the interpolation here, if I am misunderstanding, I am sure Dunnstral is aware they are in a newbie game and should actually provide more details around this in order to back up their statement, otherwise, me and many others dunno what they are talking about. Also what is up with the whole "edit:" thing.
Well that was entirely too many words for such a simple post.
But as silly as it sounds, I buy them at least trying to pocket catboi. When Dunnstal was talking about suspecting me and V0id in 326. I had my concerns in 335 about this not on me, but on V0id who they have not talked about at all. You know what Dunn told me? Told us I should say? Well it's in 340 of course where they claim they agree with catboi's 319 which... is like a sentence. Compelling. And while I see glimpses of stuff there, yeahhhhh meh. Also I make excuses all the time as town, in fact probably more, I just straight up actively consciously avoid the thread as scum. I know I haven't been super active this game, but I sure have put more effort this game then Dunnstral, and this day 2 kinda felt a bit flimsy from me IMO. You know what the cherry on top of all of this is? Dunn hasn't inteacted with ANY of V0id's content at all, absolute gold.
Do I have to point out the last response in Dunnstral's 378? It is not very good. So Dunn goes right out shading catboi's 374 being like "oh I disagree with most of these reads." And you felt the need to point it out because?
I think 418 is really really compelling, good job. Really sold me on Greeting with your post there, another random suspicion that just so happened to pop up. Out of thin air edition. 420 doesn't explain it try again.
Do I have to laugh at how little conviction Dunn's postings have at all up to the point where Dunn shades me for having a lack of conviction 473? Honestly it's kind of offensive.
Being more scummy then your scum game does not automatically loop back around to you being town Dunn, you sure have not been TWTBAW. No it just makes you look like mafia lol.
Dunnstral if you are town, you needed to step it right up. I am.

That is my performative and dramatized PSA on Dunnstral the Menace. All accolades for this flipping mafia will go to me and make sure the next day to tinfoil me for bussing so I know who not to kill because of the Newbie 2084 game if you catch my drift.

Thank you.

[Cape90]

Nothing's changed my take on Greeting:

• OMGUS
  
• Central argument of "Does this look like a person working through the game by 'association'?" is still ignored and in fact strengthened by continuing to cling to semantics and rules
  
• Threatening to self-hammer. Seen this song and dance too many times from scum.

What's actually interesting to me at the moment is Cape's 180-flip on me. Somebody (Dunn or Butter, maybe?) said it makes sense. But a 180-flip is a rare occurrence for town, in my opinion. Scum are more likely to flip opinions on a whim.

I think it could be Cape sensing pressure on Greeting and getting ready to distance. This whole VOID thing is beginning to look like a red herring cooked up by Greeting.

You think 180-flips are a rare occurrence for town. Well sir, I will have to deduct points for being hilariously wrong as I have seen town do this a lot more then scum.
When I am king
You will be first against the wall
With your opinion
Which is of no consequence at all
Okay enough of the song quotes which I haven't done since the beginning of the game BUT usually when I see scum do this whole 180 read on somebody, it is usually backed up for usually a threadstate reason. I think threadstate reasons are valid concern for this type of behavior from scum, otherwise, scum LOVE to just kinda stick to their guns, but maybe that's just my

opinion

. Anyway, with how things are going, what is my motivation for doing a 180 on you? you say

what

, but you are not thinking

why

.
I could argue boring semantics like the fact it wasn't like a "180" not like you just got from locked hypertunneled scum to lock town never rescind, nothing like that, but I get your point and this section of my writing is kinda pointless lol.
I think we can both agree on Greeting as I mindmeld with 530, though admittedly an easy shot to take there, and I find it more puzzling from Greeting then scummy, though still a tinge on the oddly scummy side of things. Not to mention, Greeting's whole "this player is SE and this player is not SE" thing felt like a pointless exercise in WIFOM.
Oh and if you think my rescindsion of my scumread on you is because I thought you brought up good points in 442 good job. The fair conclusion comment addressed at Greeting holds truth in there, not to mention, roles are simple randomized and should be treated as such.
I agree that 402 does not hold a lot of "conviction" on my end at all. You know, it almost seems like you are quoting Greetings' posts without actually looking into what Greeting is saying beyond a base level here. This I take an issue with.
You know what, I also take Issue with this bonkers excerpt "...And then tell me if that should pass as reasoning for town-reading someone who is scum-read by some degree to over half the players in the game." Alright zefeind, you are boring, you are a sheep, Ima count you in my sleep. Majority of players suspect me so therefore when I see something scummy from cape, I will follow the pack and not even try to think for myself. Have fun losing, I will be there with you crying don't worry.
I got sidetracked so I guess I should explain why I got off notscience. So I post 182 yeah? They respond with 183 which I feel is a pretty towny response to my question and the part where notscience was all saying like that he would be willing to hear out a scumcase on catboi in 187 mwah.
But hold the phone there, if you didn't notice on 182 there is an implied doubt on what alignment notscience would flip here from me. You should get a fresh pair of lenses.
I felt like scum wouldn't question some other rando person on why they were pushing me like notscience did with ahhlo on 114, like if I was scum in the shoes of notscince I would take it as it were

as a friend

. Plus I started to think my push on notscience was plain silly anyway.
But I did like the butter question going back to 442 addressed to Greeting.
I guessed I was a bit mixed there, but it's not like I really explained what goes on in my head which I should have done way sooner, but I will be forthcoming and admit my laziness in that department and also most of this game in general. I can play this game if I am in the mood for it, thankfully, you caught me at the right time . Also, post feels genuine, I don't care how much you say I shaded it + yeah I agree with Greeting's whole whatever they are doing right now in terms of pushes weird.
pushing that aside 437 is town central. The hub of towniness if you will. There is no explaining why I think that is towny, literally my argument boils down to it looks literally impossible or at least highly improbable for mafia to make such a post and to come up with these assertions. As knowingly shallow as that is from me.

Anyway, adios amigo, if you have further concerns, I will address them

5 dollars though

[Cape90]

Haha, well catboi in 504 how do you like me now? Not to mention I think my one liners make thoughts a bit more digestible and not filled up with ten thousand words but I am sure you players in this game sure love walls, so you know what, I am going to do pedantic walls that don't get to the point, because that's how I do my walls usually and I can see how it could be kind of annoying as mr. nice cape is all of the sudden gone and thanos snapped, but it sure is totally exhausting.

I am a little confused with Greetings' 507 right? Like look at the top line and the bottom line here yeah? Why is Dunn on both the top and second line here??????????? I put all those because I really want to see the epic answer to that, I sure can't wrap my head around it.

Cape look at 508 smh.

Now regarding [post=#1320116Post 1320116[post5]507[/post]:
How about you don't hammer yourself Greeting LMAO. I know it is tempting sometimes, but it is blatantly an anti-town action, if you are mafia, I suppose you can go ahead but, come on. Sidenote: Usually if I see this comment from town, unfortunately, they usually give a legacy and follow through, but if they are scum, they repeatedly keep saying "oh, I am gonna do it don't worry" when they are at the position to hammer oneself, usually more then once too.
Later on when it's not past midnight, I want to look closer into 510 and see how much I feel like it matches up with whatever Void has been doing this game.
Yo butter, where has Greeting done the self hammer thing before?
Greeting are you actually serious you did it in Newbie 2084

AS COP?

(524). If you are going to do that, don't do it as cop...

I feel like if you were scum, you could easily echo butterchurn and ɀefiend and jump in, putting me at E-1 and making my elimination very likely. Instead, you're coming to my defense, like you did back in Newbie 2082, a game in which both of us were town. That shows that you're really using your knowledge of my play in a town mindset.

I don't know if I am won over by this argument on why Greeting think catboi is town here. Like catboi could just as easily be trying to emulate his townplay. What do you mean by the whole "knowledge of my play" comment at the end here? How you play as town in general?
You know what, I mindmeld with catboi on 519 if catboi wasn't spewed enough by dunn .

I am not sure whether to feel like 523 is towny or scummy self-awareness from V0id. "But my posts

apparently

have obvious mistakes and tells which people are reading as scum markers so catboi is using that.

Because they are pretty transparent mistakes and fair observations, it is easy for catboi to throw it on me.

". I thin k the apparently here contradicts the self aware tone of the italicized?

well anyway, I shall return later, make sure mafia quake in their boots while I am gone. I am going to say this because I feel like saying this but butterchurn is mafia.

[Greeting]

Greeting are you actually serious you did it in Newbie 2084 AS COP? (524). If you are going to do that, don't do it as cop...

...you

were

in that game, how did you fail to notice it? I didn't self-hammer

per se

, but I did self-vote.

[Greeting]

Greeting claims to be willing to vote out VOID today despite so heavily focusing on "one scum must be an SE"

Greeting lended support to catboi's effort on VOID out of nowhere. It is one of the things I called out in my wallpost.

Well, Mr. Logic - the fact that one has to be an SE does not imply that both have to be.

V0ID

is very clearly not an SE in my mind and therefore is outside the SE pool - I think they could be a partner who is being coached.

[Greeting]

Nothing's changed my take on Greeting:

• OMGUS
  
• Central argument of "Does this look like a person working through the game by 'association'?" is still ignored and in fact strengthened by continuing to cling to semantics and rules
  
• Threatening to self-hammer. Seen this song and dance too many times from scum.

What's actually interesting to me at the moment is Cape's 180-flip on me. Somebody (Dunn or Butter, maybe?) said it makes sense. But a 180-flip is a rare occurrence for town, in my opinion. Scum are more likely to flip opinions on a whim.

I think it could be Cape sensing pressure on Greeting and getting ready to distance. This whole VOID thing is beginning to look like a red herring cooked up by Greeting.

It's not an OMGUS,

butterchurn

has been pushing me way harder than you and yet I keep consistently townreading him. That's another lie from you, with you ignoring the main picture and only picking whatever suits your narrative.

The sentence with regard to pressure also makes zero sense.

Butterchurn

withdrew their vote, the pressure on me right now has actually lessened.

I refuse to believe that you're unable to understand the game and assess it correctly. You're clearly lying and that is another scumtell.

[catboi]

I do agree that generally short posts are easier to digest, cape. I simply objected to you making so many in a row where a big chunk of the post was a massive quote, because then I have to scroll past a big block to get one line from you. Not that I want to dictate posting style, necessarily, but formatting helps in terms of getting your ideas across. Line breaks are helpful for separating ideas within a post. (and I personally like making separate posts for different subjects)

Let's talk about it. First, I already addressed 222 as I literally said that 208 and 215 have no connection to each other, I ignored the post when I made 215. But please shade me later on in 527 for that same post, you really are helping yourself to becoming outed mafia to me. Bolded already resonds to the second part of this funny post.

All right, but he only has your word that you ignored that post when you made it, it's not like it's something he can verify in any way, so I'm not sure why you expect him to take your word at face value here?

I find 323 pretty easy to fake. Just kinda feels like a nothing burger being like, "ah well, I played with these players before and they are town, therefore they are town exs dee, since I am busy spewing both of them as town with this, hopefully they will pocket me ". Yes I know this section is dramatized, I am just showing how I read this part, even if this isn't the interpolation here, if I am misunderstanding, I am sure Dunnstral is aware they are in a newbie game and should actually provide more details around this in order to back up their statement, otherwise, me and many others dunno what they are talking about.

He's read me well in a previous game and often doesn't explain things, but yes, that sort of post can easily come from him as scum.

Do I have to point out the last response in Dunnstral's 378? It is not very good. So Dunn goes right out shading catboi's 374 being like "oh I disagree with most of these reads." And you felt the need to point it out because?
I think 418 is really really compelling, good job. Really sold me on Greeting with your post there, another random suspicion that just so happened to pop up. Out of thin air edition. 420 doesn't explain it try again.
Do I have to laugh at how little conviction Dunn's postings have at all up to the point where Dunn shades me for having a lack of conviction 473? Honestly it's kind of offensive.

I mean, hmm. I don't see why him expressing disagreement with my reads is a scumtell necessarily, he can do tat as town. I would say that nothing he's done has blown me away with townieness and I could easily see him being scum here still.

[catboi]

To talk to myself here, I think cape going into overdrive here is always just town. Granted that the over the top hyperbolic response to dunnstral can easily be done by scum I doubt that's the route he takes over pressure from a single player. Too unnecessarily over the top. More likely to come from someone self-assured of their own towniness.

[butterchurn]

V0ID is very clearly not an SE in my mind and therefore is outside the SE pool - I think they could be a partner who is being coached

This was part of the reason I was hesitant, actually, because he doesn't look like he's had much coaching at all, unless the coaching was "yeah just keep doing what you're doing, really lean into the whole unsure newbie thing". Which... not sure if that would be the best advice. Maybe they thought the more uncoached he looked, the more he would just look like newbie town? That gets into WIFOM. I'm going to take a look later at all the scumteam possibilities and see which seem more or less likely. I don't often do that, but I feel like it could be helpful in this situation.

To talk to myself here, I think cape going into overdrive here is always just town.

Generally agree, he disappeared from the thread for a bit and that had me fairly suspicious, but ever since he's come back his posts read more town to me.

[catboi]

The inactivity isn't alignment related because he was in a very time-consuming game offsite. Which is a little irksome but it is what it is.

[catboi]

No specific comments in response to 534 but I will say the ramble on zefiend doesn't feel like it's conforming to a pre-planned conclusion, seems to be an organic evaluation.

well anyway, I shall return later, make sure mafia quake in their boots while I am gone. I am going to say this because I feel like saying this but butterchurn is mafia.

Elaborate?

[catboi]

It's just something I made a mental note of that you seemed to be the most vocal and adamant part of the notknown elim. I could see that being a bold scum play. Also, in my very casual very limited experience with irl mafia I get a red flag when someone proclaims: I am willing to be voted out for the good of the town. which I think you have posted twice so far.

As for catboi, in the same vein of a bold scumplay, I can't help but think that maybe him pointing out all my mistakes and scum markers

(which are fair observations by the way)

is a way to get a miselim on me. I think the general consensus is that scum seem to be hiding pretty well and there is nothing very obvious here... But my posts apparently have obvious mistakes and tells which people are reading as scum markers so catboi is using that. Because they are pretty transparent mistakes and fair observations, it is easy for catboi to throw it on me.

In your experience, are scum typically bold and aggressive? Because I find they rarely are.


I know you're probably tired of hearing this from me, but I feel like you admitting in the parenthetical that my observations are fair is another scumtell. Town tend to be more convinced of their own innocence while scum have the knowledge that they are in fact scum and so tend to respond more passively to accusations they know are correct.

[butterchurn]

Yeah... that was something similar to what that I said about people picking on obvious things from Void Day 1, but it sounds very weird for someone to say that about themselves. This line stood out to me as well:

I think the general consensus is that scum seem to be hiding pretty well

Because I'm not sure I would call that a general consensus, I don't remember many people making statements along those lines. A lot of people have at least some strong suspicions, and so to individuals who are town and confident in their suspicions, they likely wouldn't think the scum is hiding well. But if scum knows that a lot of the people being suspected are town (and 5 of us are, so it's guaranteed that at least a few of the people who are suspected are town), it's a very different picture, and may be an indicator of a common human tendency to, indirectly, forget that others don't have the same information that you do.

To look at it from a potential town!Void perspective, he's mentioned playing live/IRL mafia in the past, where people often make themselves very obvious and things are generally less careful and considered, and I could see someone from that background having trouble figuring out how to find scum in a longform game like this, and thinking that compared to their experience, scum is hiding well. Still, though, even in that case I think it's strange to call it a general consensus.

[butterchurn]

Scum is hiding themselves pretty well here...

This was the only instance I could find, from back near the end of Day 1. I think this would stick more prominently in the mind of new scum, especially if it were accurate at the time, as it could be taken essentially as praise from a more experienced player. I know in my first game as mafia I was hyped when someone said in thread that the mafia were playing well, and I took it to heart.

The only other thing that I could find that's even close to saying that scum are hiding well is from Greeting, here:

I’m trying to make sense of this game by associations, because honestly nothing else seems to be working.

But that's not even quite the same thing, and even then, one and a half instances of it doesn't seem like a general consensus to me, when the first one is pretty much a throwaway comment from desperate town looking for anything to latch onto before getting eliminated.

[catboi]

I'm going to take a look later at all the scumteam possibilities and see which seem more or less likely. I don't often do that, but I feel like it could be helpful in this situation.

For the record, this was going to be my project as well, not a typical approach from me but given we're at 7 alive that limits the number of possible teams from my POV quite a bit. I think it's strongly preferable to focus primarily on individually scummy behavior rather than team hunt, but ruling out potential teams is a valid tool for helping to narrow your POE for scum (and on occasion I've correctly cleared some players for having no potential partners). I've typed up some notes but not quite ready to post them just yet.

[fferyllt]

et

[fferyllt]

allez