open 841: concgratulations to the winners and losers

[Datisi]

i'm on page 90 and i am back to thinking iv might be scum because his INSISTANCE about the scumslip might be scummy because he's latching onto nonsense instead of spending his precious time solving the game

[Datisi]

i opened flow's iso, read the last ~20 posts, and now i want to kill them again

[Datisi]

i'm on page 90 and i am back to thinking iv might be scum because his INSISTANCE about the scumslip might be scummy because he's latching onto nonsense instead of spending his precious time solving the game

you're literally fucking joking right?

that post was a 98% shitpost

[Datisi]

ok i opened sleepless's recent iso and there hasn't been much movement so uh idk

i still favour killing flow but could definitely vote for sleepless if someone had a shiny case that i liked

that's probably all the energy i have for this atm, if someone needs me for something specific lemme know

[Datisi]

i have 4 completed scumgames in 2021 but i also don't know how to play the alignment, can i also pls have mandatory townreads

[Datisi]

anyone wanna let me know if anything actually important has been happening or if it's just more shitfests?

[Datisi]

at this point, one reason why i prefer flow over sleepless is bc sleepless at least feels like he'll get readable, flow doesn't

but i understand that's a pretty weak argument and i am not opposed to the sleepless wagon if it's needed

[Datisi]

is someone gossiping about me

[Datisi]

i know this is gonna sound like i'm bullshiting, but the same night two nights ago where i had a nightmare about guardians of the fortress, i also dreamt that this game advanced 50 pages while i wasn't looking and flow flipped scum

[Datisi]

for those worried about why i am a lurksack right now

half of the reason is that open 840 murdered me mentally and i need a break from the curse that is mafia. i am currently working on a painting i started a week ago but stopped working on because open 840.

the other half is that, even if i did have Important Thoughts on this game, it's pretty much decided day 1 flip is going to be flow or sleepless. at this point, it is anti-town to actually be sharing my other reads.

it's mostly the first part though, being anti-town rarely stops me from doing dumb shit

[Datisi]

at this point, it is anti-town to actually be sharing my other reads.

This isn't Guardians, I hate this. People need to sort you, too, and not just see you make something up after the fact.

what difference does it make if i start being more open about my reads again now or if i start on day 2? i'm not getting yeeted today. i am voting who i think is more likely scum out of flow/sleepless.

[Datisi]

datisi is the ultimate beetlejuicer

datisi how do you feel about sleepless and catboi

sleepless is pretty meh, i have zero alignment thoughts on catboi

[Datisi]

wouldn't it be really funny if these two wagons were both town and midway was scum and we were just wasting our time here

i think it would be

[Datisi]

idk what to do about flow though (there might be something)

i understand each word individually, but i have no idea what this is even trying to say?

[Datisi]

VOTE: midway

flashwagon go

[Datisi]

VOTE: midway

flashwagon go

It is unclear how this came about; revisiting your ISO you seemed to think flow trap was scum.

keen eye

it just so happens that i can have multiple scumreads at the same time, and the flow wagon seems to be majorly losing right now, so i don't see the problem in trying to shake things up a bit and see what happens, no?

[Datisi]

And I'd love for you to speak more about it

absolutely nothing to townread him on

i really disliked the recent pop-in because the "i'm gonna vote sleepless because i didn't like him questioning iv about the dream. i will not elaborate on this and everything else he's posted seems whatever but yeah. also here's some vague shade on the counterwagon" feels like scum who genuinely gives zero fucks who gets executed, but is trying to bullshit some plausible-sounding thoughts because he knows he's gonna get crap for if he's too passive at deadline

any other explanation would boil down to "lol idk gut"

[Datisi]

skitt, how sure are you that flow is scum? i skipped quite a few pages, sorry

[Datisi]

there is too much resistance to a sleepless vote here for sleepless to be town

there is too much resistance to a midway vote here for midway to be town

there is too much resistance to a datisi vote here for datisi to be town

literally nobody is voting him wtf

[Datisi]

in all of my mafia career, a last-minute flashwagon hit scum ONCE

but it was such a high that i can't help but want to do it again

[Datisi]

ugh idk upon further reflection if midway is town this is a bad idea

is this not true for literally every single wagon in every game of mafia ever?

[Datisi]

like, i'm just saying

i won 2 towngames in the last 24 hours, i am feeling fucking enlightened

[Datisi]

iv literally nobody is calling skitt scum rn wtf

[Datisi]

oh

yeah i am not reading that closely ok carry on then

[Datisi]

and yes i mean sure but he's pretty high up in the draft, no?

scum is also likely to be high up in the draft

fortune favours the bold or smt like that

[Datisi]

what if we did a last minute pivot and flashwagoned obvscum Mena????

we're already doing a last-minute pivot and flashwagoning obvscum midway, get with the program cakez jeez

[Datisi]

guys there's so much resistance to a midway wagon he must be scum

iv idk if i say this enough but i appreciate you

[Datisi]

Midway we get him to claim the town PR of the pair he drew, then not vote him because of it, what the fuck is even the point

this is something that i was thinking of, but i was feeling bold enough last night that "just yeet through the incoming power role claim" was my preferred solution

anyway, i will be around from now until deadline. still prefer flow to sleepless, but will vote sleepless if needed to avoid no-yeet

[Datisi]

VOTE: flow

[Datisi]

i don't think midway goes through at this point considering there's intent on sleepless and considering that someone will probably chicken out after a pr claim

[Datisi]

i don't think midway goes through at this point considering there's intent on sleepless and considering that someone will probably chicken out after a pr claim

i mean you and skitter basically just did

i'm not chickening out because of an incoming claim, i am currently very much in a daredevil mood

the issue is i recognize that someone else probably will >_>

[Datisi]

i am also around and able to hammer so that feels a bit weird

[Datisi]

@mod, v/la tuesdays and thursdays due to uni

one game where i am correctly townreading iv, and he's dead. ok cool.

VOTE: midway

[Datisi]

*my* end of day felt lazy? okay midway

[Datisi]

skitter, may i ask why you are voting catboi?

[Datisi]

andante, what is my alignment in this game?

[Datisi]

the more andante speaks, the more she is reminding me of the way she acted in the dance game

[Datisi]

the more andante speaks, the more she is reminding me of the way she acted in the dance game

lol how is this even remotely similar? I didn't out a single read there

you're getting extremely defensive over normal mafia conversations, your entrance to this day basically said a whole lot of nothing, and you completely ignored my 3242.

[Datisi]

Felt generally lazy. Even though you said you didn’t want to do much, I still scum read it.

why is a lazy eod scummy?

[Datisi]

I LITERALLY DIDN'T IGNORE YOU. I LAID OUT ALL MY THOUGHTS, but the process there and everything. This is getting annoying, seriously, yall are all wasting time tunneling me

nah. all you said was "scum might be in the flow voters, might not". i asked what my alignment is. two very different things.

[Datisi]

am i the only one who finds midway's push on me *really* sketchy here? like singling me out of "being lazy" and characterizing my oed play the way he did is, uh. yikes.

[Datisi]

oh I so SR datisi now after that whole exchange

your read on me day 1 went from scumread to townread because ??? you didn't want to say to whatever the hell it is now

you spent the entirety of the dance game saying how you have a "scumread" on me while repeatedly refusing to elaborate on it

so if you could actually talk about why you read me the way you do, that would be grand

[Datisi]

skitter, explain to me why andante is town here before i start tunnelling her for the nonsense she's saying, please

[Datisi]

midway, have you gained anything from voting me? if you think it would help you sort me, why haven't you given anything for mw to respond to before unvoting?

[Datisi]

Datisi seems more interested in people's reads on him than actively finding maf

why do you assume that doing the former means i'm not doing the latter?

[Datisi]

ah, so because i'm not dishing out reads when nobody asked about them means that i don't have strong reads on anyone, and me actively pushing flow yesterday, and trying to vote out midway was nothing? cool cool cool i see the good faith you're approaching this with

it's kinda icky that you're going "well you're only asking about the reads on you!!" as a gotcha while at the same time acknowledging that it can produce results. AND asking me to give scumreads without ever bothering to actually answer the questions i've asked you in order to try to sort you! 10/100!!

[Datisi]

again, this is why andate is scummy here. posturing around a scumread on me, while doing absolutely nothing to sort me, or to acknowledge my questions, and making up a push on me that clearly doesn't hold water.

no, seriously, can anyone actually say what her progression on my slot has been this game? because i sure can't.

[Datisi]

Wait Datisi is in the game?

wow, okay.

[Datisi]

i think you would definitely feel that something is not as townie as you'd expect, considering you got that feeling of me the last two times i was town with you too. i don't actually know how strong that feeling would be, though.

[Datisi]

your entire game has basically revolved around my read on you

lol what? is this another game you're scum talking out of your ass? because this is complete bullshit.

for the record, the only things about me that i've asked of you were things that you openly said yourself. at one point you said i was becoming townie after you were suspecting me early game. why? oh no it's a secret. then you suddenly jumped in saying i was scummy. why? you ignore me. like don't play it as if i'm asking you to write a 14 page annotated case on me, i am asking you to elaborate on the things you've already said.

this is how i sort people. especially as i've noticed that scum you has no clue on how to elaborate on your read on me; you continuously evaded me when i asked you about it in dance game. why would i let it go now? i don't care that you're a power role, that doesn't make you town.

[Datisi]

also, due to barely sleeping last night and having a stressful test today, i will be going ti bed much earlier than planned. however, i will be around more tomorrow because we're moved online for the week, again.

[Datisi]

hi mena, can you give some Thoughts(tm)

pedit: oh it's over, i've been celebrating most of the day, but thank you!

[Datisi]

re 3387:

- saying that the entirety of my play in this game has been focused only on you is blatantly false.

- and what was the reason you couldn't say that when i asked, instead of going "hehe it's a secret" or just disappearing? like, this is the similar kinda defensive backtrack about your reads that i feel like i've seen before somewhere. like, if you actually thought "ok you're scummy because post x, y, z" why didn't you say it?

- i read your start of day thoughts. they were "maf could be in group 1 or group 2" that essentially said nothing about who is mafia. and saying that you've actually read this game, but still haven't given even a hint of explanation about your progression on me... how is that supposed to make me feel better about your alignment, exactly?

[Datisi]

same
reasons behind... *spins wheel* impressions on me and midway?

[Datisi]

i don't even think andante is scum atm i am just heavily annoyed at everything she's been posting today lol

ok valid shit i prob need to relook at cakez again at some point

[Datisi]

i am so glad daddy is not dead

also yeah i am not gonna respond to that it's more effort than it's worth rn

[Datisi]

okay, flipping one back, what do you think of Alyssa so far?

i'm assuming this means alyssa specifically, and the answer is absolutely fucking nothing

i am slightly inclined to vaguely townlean her absence because i have this feeling that scum!her would be more forceful here or like would be making sure the game goes in her direction, while this kinda sitting back i can moreso see from town!alyssa

but this is not that strong as i may be talking out of my ass here as i don't remember anything about how scum!alyssa plays and maybe this town is so broken scum!her doesn't feel like interrupting so

[Datisi]

What changed your mind on her just now?

nothing, i did think some of her recent posting is scummy (mostly what i specifically called out as scummy) but i still did have a decent townread on her on d1 and the fact of the matter is there is a bunch of slots where i didn't even have that ever, so on some weird balancing scale in my mind, she's more likely town than not at this moment in time

[Datisi]

like, i never actually thought she was scum, i just wanted to press into some of the behaviours i found questionable

[Datisi]

every time i think i may be slowly starting to understand this game, turns out i in fact do not

[Datisi]

This doesnt make sense to me, sorry ... you get cred for taking a not-scum role in a high-slot, but that's conditioned on you actually being able to prove you used the role ...

For all i know you picked something else and are using tis neighbor stuff as a screen for it

skitt, how likely do you think this is?

[Datisi]

I think midwaybear's posting right now is fine. Him going "idk" to my question about why he was voting Datisi raised some alarm but right now he doesn't seem uncomfortable responding to things where generally he struggles to interact in realtime as scum

went and looked at datisi's iso because I wasn't sure about him and came away thinking he's probably town

can you give me a tl;dr of your thought processes behind these two posts? for midway specifically, what about his realtime interactions here struck you as difficult to fake?

[Datisi]

Dont know ehy else she does this as scum

my gth thought is that she's telling the truth as either alignment (and for the record i very much do not think she's townie, in fact the ate lowkey reminds me of dance game but /shrug)

this may not be worth as much now that you've unvoted, but there was something here i was aiming at

[Datisi]

So... what do you think happened to the neighborizer role then? She admitted that she was aware it was often hotly contested, but she would gamble her life on nobody having chosen it?

oh come on >_> that is what i was thinking about, but i thought there would be value in skitter coming to that conclusion on her own, why did you spell it out

[Datisi]

We dont know that its missing

Like if its known it has to be in the game i'd be a lot less sus but as of right now i dont know that

yeah, but if scum hasn't chosen the neighborizer they don't know it either

do you think it's likely scum!mare took a shot in the dark that nobody in town claimed neighborizer when she herself would have no clue whether that's the case?

[Datisi]

We dont know that its missing

Like if its known it has to be in the game i'd be a lot less sus but as of right now i dont know that

yeah, but if scum hasn't chosen the neighborizer they don't know it either

do you think it's likely scum!mare took a shot in the dark that nobody in town claimed neighborizer when she herself would have no clue whether that's the case?

[Datisi]

I don't like to sit and watch people be wrong, especially people who are way more persuasive than me in general

letting them be wrong for a little while can be alignment telling >_>

tldr of your thoughts on the game atm? still want andante dead?

[Datisi]

Neighborizer has never been missed in any PYP game.

I AM AWARE I WANTED TO HEAR WHAT SHE HAD TO SAY

[Datisi]

I'm trying to, like, actually talk to skitter and level with her and you're like the cop with dark shades in the interrogation room telling her her partners have already confessed

yes

why don't you let me have my fun, s_s

[Datisi]

i was about to say "ngl skitt might as well be scummy for the naked vote and 'lol idk i want to sort you' but not asking any questions because there's no way she actually thought that would lead to sorting and obviously her vote on catboi was supposed to just be ez racking up of votes"

but then i went to actually check the last time i remembered her doing that and

Spoiler:

Subject: Open 806: JK9++ (Game Over!)

dats i feel like i don't have such a good read on u and i kinda want to sort u

ok
what is it that you want / need from me here
and also why do you think naked voting is like, gonna help you here

(i am also specifically still interested in mena's reasons for that vote)

i don't know!!!! i feel like having some sort of dialogue with you would help, and was kinda hoping that by voting you you'd go: 'omg skitter why are you voting me' and then we could have a nice convo about idk something that would give me more to sort you with than i currently have

i feel like a lot of what you're doing is just kinda NAI? Or at least i don't see the obvtowniness that everyone is citing and like i feel like a lot of what you're doing can be said/posted by scum-you?

do you think you ought to be townread here as much as you have been?

i'm also not really sure i follow your 'evil vibes from isis wagon' -> aaron vote -> isis vote

or why you were scumreading aaron in the first place

~ skitter

she did the very similar "idk i wanna sort you i'm just gonna naked vote you lole" so i gUESS it's not as scum indicative as i thought

[Datisi]

did you get anything from that?

nope

mind acknowledging the second half of my 3506?

[Datisi]

if skitter is scum, multitasking must have come up at some point, at least in pregame. and i don't think it would be outside of skitt's range to fake forgetting about multitasking, which is why i said i didn't get anything from it.

ok that's the thoughts on andante, any thoughts on the other 9 slots?

[Datisi]

Datisi's IV push was bad but I don't know if that makes him scum tbh LOL

uh
which one

[Datisi]

I don't remember the specific posts but I remember you got in a shitty argument with him about it

[Datisi]

skitt, how many people do you *not* think are town atp?

[Datisi]

VOTE: cakez???

[Datisi]

what was the point of this

[Datisi]

fake cops, actual cop would be the universal backup that's dead?

what???

[Datisi]

my lizard brain is going "andante is town because i don't see any reason why she would be doing any of this if she was scum" but my lizard brain has been wrong on this topic before

pedit: are they? legit the only thing i could find was you voting andante

admittedly i didn't look very far but i remember you saying you were lazy for a good part of this game because dance party so

[Datisi]

And Datisi, I did not miss your question again, but I don't really feel like posting all my thoughts on every person, especially when most of them are already in my ISO. Anyone specific you want to hear about?

ok, i'm gonna ctrl+f everyone's name in your iso

datisi - nothing ai in your iso about me
skit - don't think one of her actions against you are scum!indicative (1745), that's all you said about her alignment
cakez - 1339 explains your method of reading him, but nothing is ever said about his alignment (maybe 1265 is meant as a townlean on him? not sure)
andante - some early bickering, you said you wanted her wagoned
catboi - nothing ai said about him
flow/alyssa - 2412 is a scumlean if i squint, nothing on alyssa
nsg - nothing ai about her
mare - nothing ai about her
mena/pooky - nothing ai about either
midway - 2869 mentions having a dumb reason to townread midway

so, even if i went the most charitable route of acknowledging any and all alignment comments as reads, out of 10 not-you people alive, you have a "read" on... skitt, cakez, andante, alyssa, midway (town, town, scum, scum, town respoectively). and that is assuming none of your reads ever changed or evolved, considering some of these were quite early.

so, uhh... where are your "thoughts on every person", exactly?

[Datisi]

mwb is like my truest null here, so he gets middle of the pack because I feel p much nothing from anything I've read of his so far

makes midway a likely partner, which lots of people SRed midway yesterday, so I could see them both being maf

if i remember my scum!mena meta right, it's "hard scumread or hard townread your partners, never ever put them in null where people look" so probably not

[Datisi]

why would it not hold for replacing in lol??

[Datisi]

nsg - nothing ai about her
mare - nothing ai about her

these are both wrong, I've said that both were +town.

Besides, I never claimed to have a read on every person? That would be an obviously silly claim, anyway.

i did not find it. and it doesn't change the fact that your reads are heavily unimpressive for claiming that you have given thoughts on most of the playerlist >_>

[Datisi]

also: andante has claimed, now what do you wanna do with her slot? @s_s

[Datisi]

why are you attempting to make a 3/3 solve right after being proven wrong on two of your strongest scumreads...

[Datisi]

it doesn't change the fact that your reads are heavily unimpressive for claiming that you have given thoughts on most of the playerlist >_>

I guess I can see how you misinterpreted it that way, my bad. When I said "most of them are in my ISO" I meant "most of my thoughts", not "thoughts on most of the players".

okay, can you then make a super simple list of "people i think are town, scum, neither" because even with my iso digging, i found that you were townreading 2 people that you now claimed you wanna vote, so

[Datisi]

also: andante has claimed, now what do you wanna do with her slot? @s_s

Kill it, if that wasn't evident.

okay, *why*

what made you think andante was a good push in the first place
how has her claiming tracker made you decide you wanted to flip here

like i'm trying to read into your thought process here...

[Datisi]

why are you attempting to make a 3/3 solve right after being proven wrong on two of your strongest scumreads...

cause it's a lot easier than "HEY X IS MAF!" it's called partner interactions...

i think you got something horribly wrong about the game of mafia if you're claiming that pre-flip scum/scum interactions are easier to read than singular scumreads

[Datisi]

Town - midway, Mare, nsg, Alyssa

i genuinely don't understand a single read here x_x

[Datisi]

I think the tracker claim is probably town unless iv was vigged by a town vig

how does this follow from that?

[Datisi]

VOTE: andante

meh

[Datisi]

i mean... i believe that you are a tracker...

[Datisi]

VOTE: andante

meh

I really, really think she's town here

can you argue with s_s about it so i can decide who to sheep instead of coming to me

[Datisi]

actually, now that i say it, i think it's kinda weird skitt is coming to me to tell me andante is town in reaction to my lazy sheep vote, while ignoring s_s making a case on her

not necessarily scummy but definitely weird

[Datisi]

For now i dont want this to become a wagon

who do you want me to vote

[Datisi]

VOTE: cakez??????

[Datisi]

like dats voted because of my tracker claim

...

[Datisi]

i think picking that bracket as scum is unlikely

??? didn't scum that was first in draft pick in that bracket last time you played pyp?

or do you mean andante!scum is unlikely to pick in that bracket?

[Datisi]

what of my interactions made you green me? you didn't even know i was playing until recently

[Datisi]

should i be worried about that read seeming much easier than what you usually give me?

[Datisi]

i think picking that bracket as scum is unlikely

??? didn't scum that was first in draft pick in that bracket last time you played pyp?

or do you mean andante!scum is unlikely to pick in that bracket?

I dont think i played it before in this setup? I feel like scum tries to takw away the strong town roles, no?

not this exact setup, but i thought it was close enough to compare - didn't lilith pick jk as scum first in draft in the game ducky modded?

[Datisi]

I am requestioning dats and mare now tho

do you wish to have a conversation

[Datisi]

VOTE: nsg

[Datisi]

because it seems like nothing in this game is happening

and nothing will continue happening until we wagon someone and they feel actual pressure of upcoming death

if you wanna wagon me instead, i would even be down for that, because this game is currently standing in place and i am bored

[Datisi]

Fair enuf ... i very much want to wagon nsg and cakez but like if neither are here i'm not sure that will, like, do so much ....

cakez is vla so this argument holds for him
i believe nsg is present on site which makes her a perfect target for a lolflashwagon

my thoughts on alyssa can be found in 3406, thoughts on flow are "scummy that they dipped right after saying they will catch up, and idk how to read gamestate well enough to be able to draw conclusions from the wagon"

[Datisi]

there’s no way nsg is town, uhh when i’m done making cookies I want to look into cake and dats, cause if I’m right on nsg + mena/cake/dats and it is nsg+mena, that means dats/cake is carrying, but it’s not likely pooky+dats both pick 1… and mena nsg cake feels too easy… idk, need to finish my cookies then I’ll look at that, but I don’t get why it feels like minimal effort from so many…

almost as if preflips are often wrong and should not be done as flimsily as this... i am carrying the scumteam, yeah, by breaking the status quo and forcing a wagon onto my suspected partner who is historically very bad at dealing with pressure when she has a wagon on herself, but at the same time i am bussing in the laziest way possible. darn, and i thought i would win the game with it.

[Datisi]

This nsg wagon is boring and it feels like it's driven the game to a standstill. I would want to see if she's going to get replaced but that would mean idling for another 36 hours. Something to be said for shorter prod times, I guess. (Even though if this had been 36 hour prods I'd have been long past due.)

the wagon is boring, but at least we *have* a wagon. earlier on nobody was forced to react to shit. now we at least have one player that is forced to react to something.

like i'm not happy the game is boiling down to having to put people on the verge of death before they do something but it has so /shrug

[Datisi]

now we at least have one player that is forced to react to something.

and nsg completely ignored votes when she showed up, probably cause she never intended to actually do stuff...

she has not showed up since we wagoned her, tf you on about?

[Datisi]

what did we learn from it?

[Datisi]

s_s: my push on andante got us a lot of reactions
me: ok, what information did we get from it
s_s: *i'mma pretend i didn't see that*

also, if nsg really is scum, i don't think it's lurking out as a scum tactic, as much as it is not knowing what to do.

[Datisi]

It's not a useful question. You didn't say anything about "information", whatever that is, you said that people couldn't be made to react without a wagon, which is categorically false.

i don't care about reactions that don't get us anywhere, the underlying issue is that we're not getting anywhere closer to solving the game. you can play the semantics about me saying "react", but my problem was obviously that we aren't getting anything useful out of it.

[Datisi]

just wanna let you know that i am still alive and reading and don't have many thoughts about this game

i did have a thought floating somehwere in the back of my mind how it's ~weird~ how there was so much panic(?) and pushing around the wagons yesterday, while today it seems like everyone is perfectly satisfied with nsg dying. my first thought would be that that means the flow slot is scum and buddies were creating counterplay with sleepless, and that nsg is town, but i would have to review the exact order of events and frankly i don't care enough to do it right now

[Datisi]

not saying i disagree, but how is mena lurking different than nsg lurking?

[Datisi]

this game is a circus

VOTE: mena

[Datisi]

who is currently being scummy here again?

[Datisi]

Ehh i think dissolving nsg wagon is prob a good thing but I’d rather do cakez/catboi

But then again I do subscribe to the crazy philosophy of “maybe let’s do the person(s) being scummy instead of the people just not around”

ah, i thought this implied that these two were inactive and that you found somebody who was actively being scummy

reading is hard

[Datisi]

My brief skim reveals that Datisi is likely town

i am confused but also curious

[Datisi]

d1 was a bunch of nothing, then a deadline scramble between flow trap, midwaybear, and sleepless. d2 was... more nothing.

[Datisi]

"but this game has over 150 pages, how is most of it nothin--" yeah i am impressed too.

[Datisi]

Datisi(from reading recent posts upon replace in)

well this is either tmi or bullshit, which is it?

[Datisi]

OH

[Datisi]

okay nevermind carry on

[Datisi]

i think i'm still gonna need you to elaborate on your reads at least a lil bit, while not impossible, that's still a very quick tr

[Datisi]

smh

[Datisi]

[content that doesn't progress the game]

[Datisi]

<3

[Datisi]

i don't think i would mind wagoning midway

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VOTE: midway

[Datisi]

a power role claim, who could've seen that coming.

btw, even if andante is scum, it's still not like she could've known there was a doc if you're town, so.

[Datisi]

still doesn't tell her if town chose doctor or roleblocker.

[Datisi]

skitt, are you trying to just run up people to get them to claim? because that's how it feels like when you switch from one wagon to another after a claim in a game where claims are almost completely nai.

[Datisi]

like, if you had thought cakez was a better wagon, why didn't you do that *before* midway outed his pick

pedit: hmm? i haven't moved my vote. i'm standing behind it. you're the one who swapped onto a different wagon immediately, tf you on about?

[Datisi]

oh lovely activity. i skimmed what has happened

making the vig-slot in {cakez, catboi, mena, dats}

Unless Kaiji is scum, yes. Should we have all those slots claim whether they took vig/PGO?

not it

also i've been thinking about the fact that in the micro i recently modded, not only did scum claim doc, they claimed to have been on skitter

not really important, i just find it funny

anyway, got a day full of classes, but i will be able to check in on my phone here and there to change my vote of needed. still prefer midway, as i don't really subscribe to the thought that scum *has* to kill a doc. and even less that that alleged doc should be saving a tracker. anyway.

[Datisi]

Why dont we just leash midway to andante, and have andante track midway

If andante is rb'd midway is scum, if andante dies midway is scum, if andante survives she should get a result on midway and be able to verify him (or not)

ooh, i like this, actually. we know that if they're both town, scum doesn't have a roleblocker nor a jailkeeper that could screw with the results.

[Datisi]

for one moment i had a vision of a skitt/midway/andante team but surely not LMAO

anyway uh out of the three options i have very little read on like, any of them at this point. not sure who i would vote

[Datisi]

confirm you will do what skitt said and maybe i will

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anyone have a count on what the wagons are at?

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it would be very cool if i had any sort of opinion on these wagons

VOTE: cakez

if midway targets anybody other than andante, he is getting policied tomorrow, thank you

[Datisi]

@midway target andante or you are getting policied tomorrow

there we go

[Datisi]

i agree on not liking midway's play here but he is Self Resolving or something so whatever

but also i saw cakez being online while he was at y-1 so i am trying to feel optimistic about this flip

[Datisi]

i mean i am not thrilled exactly but i am trying to have at least a bit of hope before schadd shows up

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oh pooky is town


cakez is also town so rip

i am confused where this is coming from

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i was about to come in and start screaming how midway is scum

lol

lmao

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i want to townread skitter for the keyboard smashes even though i know i really shouldn't ahahaha

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I Neighborized.

Whomst?

dat is i

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Dats i want to say that i explicitly do not townread u anymore

okay

i am not sure why you felt the need to specify that after saying you do not townread anyone but alright

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WHY WOULD YOU TRACK THE PERSON DEAD LAST IN THE DRAFT

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wait, i just remembered goons can carry out the kill. nvm carry on

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VOTE: Andante

i'm gonna need more explanation for this besides "she didn't do the thing she said she was gonna do", likewise at the other person who voted there

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i am so pissed off at this game at so many different angles that i have circled around to not caring at all, get on my level

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i Might be townreading s_s

i would be lying if i said i was any confident in that, though

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s_s, do we massclaim here or no

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I think i mostly had u in mind when i was thinking that tbh

is there anything specific that sparked that (i'm assuming the answer is "midway flipped green" but i am asking anyway) and is there anything you want from me

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okay i am gonna do a funny, observe

VOTE: kaiji

so earlier on in this game, i was like, god midway looks so fucking scummy to me. idk how to read this dude tho he always looks so scummy to me. then i remembered 2195, where i was scum, midway was town, and he was acting as lowkey misyeet bait, but there was this one (1) motherfucker who knew how to read him. it was kaiji. so i had to uhh fucking kill kaiji n1 just to be able to shitpush midway through on d2. and earlier in this game i thought, damn it would be some good shit to have kaiji in this game, they know how to read midway.

then, would you look at that, kaiji replaced in? first had him at null? then was fine with the wagon and now is claiming they were gonna hardpush him had he not died? uhh idk fam

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yeah, that's why i wrote midway and not ssbmkyouko

and if you can explain how you went from null to "fine with wagon" to "was gonna hardpush them" that would be very nice

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Mostly that i'm running out of placea that scum can be

how many people do you actually think that are town right now that you're "running out of places scum can be"?

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Sleepless Assassin

(6):

northsidegal, Menalque, Andante,

Faker

, catboi, Mare

flow trap (5):

skitter30,

Datisi

,

Sleepless Assassin

,

SirCakez

,

innocentvillager

midwaybear

(1):

flow trap

Faker

(1):

Something_Smart

not voting (1):

midwaybear

Sleepless Assassin

(8):

northsidegal, Menalque, Andante, catboi,

midwaybear

,

Faker

, Mare, skitter30

flow trap (5):

Sleepless Assassin

,

Datisi

,

innocentvillager

,

SirCakez

, Something_Smart

midwaybear

(1):

flow trap

not voting (0):

i'm gonna pretend that i know how to do vca, and boy oh boy that is a lot of green on the flowtrap wagon

if i assume that flow trap is town, then scum was probably dispersed across both wagons - i'd assume in that case skitt would most likely be scum there

however, if flow trap is scum, then skitter is probably? town

i lowkey wanna flip alyssa now

[Datisi]

if alyssa flips scum im returning to my hiatus no cap

???

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VOTE: alyssa

[Datisi]

alyssa + 2 of mena/andante/mare

there we go game solved we can all go home

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Alyssa is town

why

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we wouldn't be dumb enough to both pick 1
and if we were dumb enough to both pick 1, we wouldn't have also picked informed

but frankly considering you didn't even track midway and would've made the town enter autoloss if you're town had he not died, i do not have an urge to argue about anything with you

[Datisi]

we wouldn't have also picked informed

wouldn't have picked multitasking / would have picked informed, you know what i mean

and yeah seriously

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i find it kind of fake that you would get *that* offended at me implying you're not town when (1) you have been saying you were gonna die from d1 and now it's d3 and you're still around, (2) you just admitted to going against essentially cop-checking a scummy slot, (3) you literally said you think i'm scum

[Datisi]

VOTE: andante

yeah actually doesn't make any sense at all. you don't get that pissed off at the person you're scumreading saying "if you're town", especially considering she didn't get anywhere close to that pissed off when people actually voted her

i'll think about it in the morning but i'm parking here for the night, see ya

[Datisi]

okay guys, I'll just say this again

why does scum

1. Kill midwaybear, a slot that was widely enough scumread to specifically be looked to clear through another known PR
2. Have the slot designated to clear them not claim to have tracked them doing exactly what they were supposed to do, and instead claim to track someone completely different and give information that we otherwise wouldn't have
3. Not use tonight, with the doctor leashed onto another target, to kill somebody else that is more likely to have a TPR and/or is more widely townread and/or is a higher threat to scum directly

this entire chain of events assumes the scumteam is stupid

and this playerlist has too many players that are objectively way better at scum than that

do you mind actually explaining how this is leading you to your reads, or?

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instead claim to track someone completely different and give information that we otherwise wouldn't have

what information, that the bottom of the draft didn't go anywhere? if andante is scum, it's not like it's some ground breaking info they're giving us

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and considering that we have outside confirmation that neighborizer is taken, that means another neighborizer is out there somewhere

ftr, Flow Trap also tried to pick up neighborizer

So unless you think all three of us claiming neighborizer pick are scum, then Mare is neighborizer

i think mare is neighborizer because she neighborized me last night, and this whole neighborizer discussion is going way over my head

[Datisi]

because it makes people think "why would scum do that?"

like, if midway is dead, it essentially makes no difference whether andante claims to have tracked him or tracked s_s, neither give town any useful info. the only thing that changes is the people's reaction to it. and if she/her teammates thought that this town was likely to say "well if she was scum, she would've just claimed that she tracked midway!!" then she suddenly has a lot of incentive to claim it.

i could be projecting here, but i sometimes do attention-grabbing nonsense as scum PURELY because i know towns often go "but why would scum do that???" so that's not exactly an angle you're going to convince me with unless you show me why andante specifically wouldn't do it

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because do you really think she doesn't neighborize night one as scum

idk, probably not

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I'm very hesitant to ever call this a strong option when town pretty clearly is not nailing scum to the wall

so the scumteam with andante on it just lets midway get conftowned instead? idgi

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i woke up much earlier than i need to, i will UNVOTE: bc not sure if i still wanna be voting there ig also potential yelo, i am going back to sleep now

[Datisi]

hello i woke up i bet all of you are happy about that

I also don't think there's a world where skitter's town here

i think i need to see more about your thought process here

if ppl think im somehow still scum here, I have given way too many opinions to feasibly do that + put myself on the line in places i had no need to when NSG slot was already widely at least null-town read from what i can see

this really vibes with me because i distinctly remember this one post from 2195 where kaiji was like "bruh this ain't my scumgame" and the last game i had a viberead like this, it was correct, so whatever lol

who would you confidently say is town and would bet your pride on the read?

nobody, unfortunately. i'm back to thinking andante is probably? maybe? town, and i'm gonna pretend to have faith in the read of you i presented above

i want to say 4624 is townie for catboi because it feels like his town motivation pattern, but also i feel like something like this is somewhat easy to fake and i feel like he would be more likely to be faking that pattern of his towngame than you are to fake yours so

[Datisi]

the thing i want to see now is what was kaiji thinking of when they went from "datisi is an ez read lol" to "actually nvm i have to reeval here"

also, while i can talk about other slots, i keep coming back to the idea that there's one scum in skitt/alyssa. because an all town-wagon on town!flow while all scum dogpiled on town!sleepless just doesn't make sense to me? so it would either mean that it wasn't a wagon on town!flow (so alyssa scum) or the wagon wasn't all-town (so skitter scum, or i guess me scum if you wanna go there) but ehhh did i ever know how to do vca

another problem is that it's difficult to justify flipping one of them when there's slots like menalque but

idk, i'm thinking how justified massclaim would be here because the possibility of a n3 scum vig worries me, but idk. someone talk to me i feel like i'm going insane

[Datisi]

but i'm struggling to do that for dats

drunken rant about meta on d1 during new years

i could give you a self meta ted talk on why i probably don't play this game the way i have if i were red, but i don't feel like putting in the effort unless you (or anyone else) has interest in reading that

other than that, i don't think i've demonstrated an ubertownie mindset this game, so.

why do you say you townread me the least when you're talking about wanting to flip alyssa > catboi?

[Datisi]

I would actually read a self-meta ted talk fwiw

if i were scum this game, my play here would be going against one of my core principles of scumplay: you don't need to do the things you would to as town, you need to do the things that will make people think you're town.

what i mean is, some of my play this game is textbook town!tisi. if i'm not feeling like it or i'm not getting anything, i'm gonna step away and not play for a bit. i'll beetlejuice and respond only to things of interest. i'm gonna be openly saying that i don't know the answer when i don't know it. i'll vote people for reactions or just because they annoy me. i'll make flimsy votes that aren't backed up properly.

all of those are aspects of my towngame in a gamestate like this. but here's the kicker:

i know they aren't things that actually get townread.

scum!me would have zero reason to be playing like this because it would be simulating my town!meta for simulating my town!meta's sake, but it wouldn't help me achieve anything. it leaves me open to attacks for being lurky or opportunistic or not having a connected trajectory. and the only way i benefit from it is being able to make a post like this - something that i know people generally dislike because self meta bad.

risk vs reward just doesn't make sense here. scum!me would have a much easier time consistently bullshitting reads and working on having good nuanced thought processes and trajectories rather than playing in an obviously scummy way to then be able to go "but it actually makes me town!!". it just creates problems in the long run because it's just a matter of time before people turn on me (and considering i'm pretty much always either the endgaming scum or the last scum standing, i'm not used to playing towards getting saced like this and it just doesn't benefit me at all.)

"but you said you sometimes do dumb shit as scum that would make people think you're town!!" yeah and i do it when it actually makes sense. this does not make sense when there's a much easier and simpler alternative of appearing textbook townie then trying out these odd wacky strategies that have a decent amount of chance of backfiring. i'm town who's running low on wim.

[Datisi]

no worries. i'd be interested in your self-meta ted talk when you can.

[Datisi]

as far as i know, she's strong town and she once won a scummy for vigging correctly (2019?), i think it's likely she'd pick vig as town

[Datisi]

s_s, what does your heart want to do on this day in open 841

[Datisi]

Kaiji replaces northsidegal

Hello. I wish to announce that NSG had poor choice in role selection but it is ok.

these two happened slightly more than a minute apart - though if they're scum, they were added to the pt prior to this

Hello. I wish to announce that NSG had poor choice in role selection but it is ok.

this was a very clever soft referencing my previous stance on vigilante as a role, which I have expressed in a recent dead PT of a completed game - as well as the latter claiming "it is ok" meaning the role was not obtained.

and fairly certain kaiji is telling the truth about this being intended to be a soft.

the pick makes sense from town!nsg's point of view. so options are that either kaiji is town and telling the truth, or they repped in, saw they were scum, zoomed through the scum pt to read about nsg saying how she'd pick vig as town (i'm assuming that's what'd be happening in the scum pt) and then decided to soft about that knowing it'd fit her play profile - at the time when it was arguably unnecessary because the wagon had already gone down.

yes, i am aware it's possible scum!nsg picked vig *anyway* and that's where they got the idea to soft it but it still feels unnecessary and ab<jkefsrdg kaiji probably town? ok what's next

[Datisi]

this catboi dude has pocketed me and i am starting to look at skitt's direction again - and i'm hella confused about what she's been dropping mechanically and kinda wanna add my vote towards massclaiming because it's obvious we're not going anywhere

[Datisi]

s_s, should i be worried about the fact that it seems like you currently have ~nothing~?

[Datisi]

I don't have nothing, I just don't have any read strong enough to be worth pursuing over mechanics. Which is normal for a mechanics-heavy open.

it also makes you terribly hard to read, especially considering you're not even pursuing *that*.

Fwiw I think catboi's point about how scum might have the cop slot because they weren't trying to kill it is solid. And I think Kaiji's point about how scum didn't kill skitter because they were afraid she was BP is terrible.

agreed and agreed.

[Datisi]

mechanically the vig has to be in {catboi / mena / dats}

you could still be a scum vig lying about your pick. i'm too tired to think about how likely it actually is, but the above is untrue from everyone's pov except yours

[Datisi]

has mena claimed yet?

[Datisi]

i started thinking of mena/s_s/alyssa before i remembered that flow and s_s picked the same number and i want to commit die

[Datisi]

my next idea is skitter and catboi as partners which might be a sign it's bed time for me

[Datisi]

why the fuck isn't mena here so i can just read him then sheep his skitter read, that went great last time i did it

[Datisi]

i just had a Realization - it's not relevant to this discussion and it's anti-town to out it if i'm right but just putting this out there as a reminder for myself later

[Datisi]

back to relevant stuff, i can't decide whether to be like "oh cool skitt sees what i'm saying about myself" or "there's more lhf things to push"

like, i went from "no reason to be townread" to not being scum just with that post?

[Datisi]

Datisi wondered if I forgot to actually neighborize

i had a fridge logic moment where i realized there actually is a very pro-town reason to lie about forgetting to use your action on n1 - and in that universe, mare would have been confirmed town to me

unfortunately, that's not what happened >_>

also, if any of y'all think i have a buddy of mine claim neighborizer (unprompted, doesn't have it) and then have another buddy claim they tried to get neighborizer and failed (while not knowing whether anyone tried to go for it) and then claim they hooded me... i wanna have what you're having

[Datisi]

there's a new hood for each night
(i.e. if mare neighborizes you tonight there'd be a seperate mare/kaiji hood, you wouldn't be added to the mare/dats one)

like deadass i wanna know what was going on through your brain at this moment because there's doing shit as scum just for doing shit and then there's literally throwing the game by fakeclaiming nai night actions that we can't back up for absolutely no reason

[Datisi]

when andante isn't posting, i talk myself into a townread of that slot, but when she starts posting, i wanna kill her again

however, i don't think skitt/andante are scum together - if skitt's scum, i think the "well why would pick n1 choose a jk/tracker slot as scum???" while completely forgetting that the last time she played in pyp, that is indeed what happened. felt like tmi'ing andante

yes i am still pocketed by catboi, why do you ask

[Datisi]

fucking hell, whatever coherent worldview i come up with, either it's two people that picked the same number or it's my tinfoil about [thing] being wrong

maybe it really is catboi/skitter/??? because nothing in this game is making sense rn

have those two even voted each other??? like at any point??? started building wagons on one another??? in contrast to how much shit they're spewing at each other???

and then one of s_s/alyssa, probably? s_s

[Datisi]

catboi confirmed neighborizer/voyeur was taken

there is part of me that is wondering if the hood actually exists

i just realized i quoted the wrong post in 4809, this is what i meant to quote

[Datisi]

I spent half of day2 voting him, yes

this is a thing? that happened? cool
still potentially doesn't negate my point based on how hard were you actually pushing him but i'm not gonna pretend to be exerting too much effort right now

Why is he pocketing you / why are you townreading him?

his stuff on you felt like it ~made sense~
which i know is kind of a low bar for someone of his caliber but it made sense in a way that i wasn't sure he'd need to be faking and it was convincing, i guess? like i know you struggle to keep it up long-term as scum but i'm not sure if i'd characterize this game as "definitely unable to keep up", idk

[Datisi]

how cheeky would it be though if catboi is scum who deadass dropped the "scum might be dragging mena to yelo" line while he is scum who is dragging mena to yelo

[Datisi]

And do u like townread him otherwise

not really

[Datisi]

what incentive does maf have to ensure neighbors happen?

what incentive does maf in 4th spot of the draft even have for picking neighborizer

unless the team is *exactly* skitt/andante/mare and she was the lowest in draft

[Datisi]

at least three people have expressed a townread recently lole