Newbie 2087 | Celebrating Betty White | End!

[Cape90]

I did read it. Cat asked me to explain my reasoning, so I put it up with my own words. But I do respect you for saying it first.

I guess I'm not a genius though

Anyway, thanks for being the 1st person to speak to me so far.

loltown

Pale Ale Dog has been prodded.

I hear you, I'm working right now but will say top of my head though I stand by my TR's for Lickety and CSF, not understanding the accusations against them tbh, Tucker, not done anything of note yet apart from copy/agree with Progo's post that was actually just agreeing with my post? [153, 86, 73]. I have read up to date, but I need to read few times b4 I get a gist of things better and that is where I'm at [I hate these text walls!]. Ahri is making it difficult with these multi quote multi colour posts but I appreciate that isn't her problem, but hardly accessible for some. I also think they are probably town, but it is exhausting to go through their posts. Someone possibly Arhi or Somnus said my posts were more null than town

and I agree with that

- not sure why others jumped to me being town, looking back on it, it was not exactly ground breaking investigations! Anyway, I've posted every day in GMT since the game started so not sure why I got prodded?

loltown

[cut]

These are the relevants posts PAD made imo but honestly they're all just a bit boring to read imo, no offense ;-;

I don't know if it's because I'm jaded or whatever, but it seems null across the board, I agree with their TR on CSF, their TR on LQ is viable given they've made logical decision this game but again I have bad vibes from him

anyways 5/10 bc null

Can't say I'm offended -

they were quite boring and hardly ground-breaking

. I still have an itch about both Progo and Malcolm T using my post to make town reads on me - as well as CSF of course, though she's town for me anyway. [CSF, I know you will probably say why but your posts are just very investigative and you put pressure on the players you are asking - I know you probably disagree with me but I think LicketyQ is in the same bracket].

less so but still
loltown.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think I should take a break from catching up if my brain has reduced to this style of posting lol. Korina slot is more likely town then not, stay mad haters

[Cat Scratch Fever]

as soon as Korina replaced in. So in my mind, her actions betrayed what she said she wanted to do.

I guess the thing that I am struggling wrapping my head around with is why Andante would do this as scum unless both Andante and Korina are both mafia together. Again I have a bias anyway when it comes to this anyways so maybe I just had to be there.

shrug

I figured she forgot the reason why she voted Korina-slot in the first place.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

why is 135 loltown?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I want to try something.

Everyone, I want to know what do you think of me and why. The more details, the better.

I think the brain is saying you're town, since you've been re-evaluating (especially on Ahri on the end of D1) your reads. And the timing of your re-evaluation makes a lot of sense, b/c that's when Ahri really seemed like a frustrated townie.

Looking back at your ISO, some of your posting, e.g. the last sentence of 720 seem kinda townie. And the readslists look like town trying to refine their reads.

I had an gut scumread on you for your awkward tone and not knowing how to respond to people pushing you. and I have a tendency to have better gutreads than "let me think really hard and re-evaluate this slot" reads :/

Also LQ is dead when I kinda expected to die last night, and he said he wanted to tunnel you if Andante flipped town. Ahri said LQ's reason for sr'ing you was bad, but I don't think that actually matters. LQ's playstyle is aggressive enough to make any new scum player want to avoid that kind of scrutiny. but having said all that, it's valid that maybe scum got PR vibes from LQ, so maybe he wasn't NK'd for his specific read on you.

tldr if ordering my reads, I think you're slightly townier than Malcolm and Korina, esp by day play.

So Progo, what do you conclude from all of that?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I feel like 703 and 706 slightly contradict the I guess what I would say

the thought process I would expect mafia to have

, at least in regards to handling Progo and Ahri.

can you rephrase / expand?

"The other point I get to with it is that none of the SEs are scum, but that doesn’t feel like it’s the correct answer, so I’m ignoring it." Is a pretty goofy statement IMO from 753 which also contains a

bold statement about Progo not being scum

just based on how Ahri has interacted with the slot.
I wish I knew what 880 was referring to in regards to something Ahri did.

I don't think it's bold to call someone town based off their interactions? Also did you see his reasoning for it in 756?

"Progo's reaction to being pushed so heavily so quickly was townie" -- this just isn't... true. Progo basically didn't react to scumreads on him at all until ahri told him, in the thread, what to do lol

[Cape90]

why is 135 loltown?

I feel like mafia wouldn't just randomly thank a random person for interaction with their slot. It's a little bit too "look at me" for what I would expect mafia to act in an interaction with another town. I would singlehandedly rule out Progo/Korina team just based on this quote. But I feel like 133 demonstrates that better (a bit of context for this is put in 72)

[Cat Scratch Fever]

yeah i think 133 makes a good point, but 135 came across to me as oddly placating towards someone he was probing. could easily be a personality thing tho, so I don't read too much into posts like that tbh.

[Cape90]

In post 692, ProgoWoshua wrote:

About Ahri:

Okay, Ahri's behavior is troubling. It seems that she thinks there's absolutely no way I'm not mafia. It could be that's she's mafia and is lying, but that would mean she's intentionally hyping up a wagon that she knows will flip town. I don't think there's a reason for mafia to do that.

So for now, UNVOTE: Ahri. I'm not completely crossing off the possibility she's mafia, it just doesn't seem very likely right now.

I don't really see how that makes someone less likely to be scum? Scum have to push wagons somehow, and acting like they're town through the "I'm so confident in this read" type thing tends to work in my experience.

In post 694, ProgoWoshua wrote:
In post 693, Andante wrote:

this is what I'm talking about.. like, if effort = town. then I'm maf. but I tr progo over ahri soooo

VOTE: Ahri

My argument has nothing to do with effort. The mafia knows that I'm town and acting the way she's acting towards me makes no sense for someone who knows that I'm town.

I don't *really* like this, even though the logic makes some sense in my mind. I don't know the context since I haven't read back the game yet, and just woke up, but in a vacuum I don't like this.

For some reason I was interpreting this in my head as Korina shading Progo, when no, it's just Korina continuing on the suspicion they laid out on Ahri.

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 2-2

The first game show Betty was on was called "Make the Connection". She's pictured here with the Host, Gene Rayburn and Gloria DeHaven.

Korina

(2): Ahri, Cat Scratch Fever

Cat Scratch Fever

(1): Cape90

Not Voting

(4): Korina, ProgoWoshua, MalcolmTucker, Somnus

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to eliminate.

Deadline: February 2, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2022-02-01 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

-

[Cape90]

(1) Progo is my scum partner, and I want to protect them.

If you believe this case, first of all, you should be voting Progo, and not me

Not necessarily, because someone could think that you are scummier then Proto.

(2) Progo is town, and I want to gain his trust.

In this case, there is an obvious defense: I already had Progo’s trust.

you know you don't have it now, or at least in the stage of the game you are posting this in yeah?

Lastly, I’ve been tr’ing Somnus and Cat Scratch Fever,

and trying my best to make them locktown

This should never be a goal that you have if you are town.

[MalcolmTucker]

These two are extremely town. They're the ones pushing the scumhunt forward. If it turns out one or both of them are mafia, I'll be extremely surprised and impressed.

I don't think there's enough to be heavily suspicious of them yet (as is the case with anyone in the first round of voting) but I don't think this is particularly a guarantee of them being town at all. In a quieter game I think it'd make sense for at least one mafia to try and drive the townies in a direction that suits them and become seen as an authority who can be trusted. Especially if they get rid of someone who's either quiet or who we don't have much of a read on. It genuinely could just be townies working hard to find scum but far from guaranteed.

This is quite the abrasive read. I disagree with it as those 2 are pretty obvious choices for the towniest two in that time of the game, the beginning.

From a personal POV just unluckily often been available at points where the game has been quiet so far, hopefully more active in days to come.

From past experience playing - it matters more on the player re lurkers. If someone is usually very involved or fairly quiet as a townie but suddenly switches it up then it can be a decent sign something is up, whether they're mafia or have a main role. But obviously playing in the dark with it being my first time.

As I mentioned on a previous page, it's just generally too early for anyone to be able to confidently identify someone as mafia barring some major slip-up. Patterns will only start to become obvious once we're voting I reckon.

A whole lotta nothing here parading around as content.

Can't figure out if Ahri's approach is just kinda being chaotic and having fun (as they suggested initially), or a mafia getting more heavily involved to try and steer the direction of the townies. Like I said, risky move, but can be effective if you manage to eliminate a couple of townies without generating much suspicion.

Not a bad

theory

as I could put it. It just seems like, a bit surface level of a read that you could make on any number of early townleaders that you could make, you know.

Progo is by all accounts a new player (as they've started), any inconsistencies being pointed out could quite easily be related to that

. Not getting enough of a vibe to start a bandwagon yet. Quite frankly some players are a lot more confidence than anyone realistically should be at this point in the game, unless they're just trying to tactically draw out errors.

So anyway, any reason why this isn't mafia?

-Malcolm talks about Progo a lot

I kinda like Malcom's insistence that mafia is Ahri in 689 and 758 and especially 916

I think Malcom has been a bit rigid with their worldview, wouldn't be opposed to a vote on Malcolm but there is the Ahri thing making me think they could easily be town.

One of the main reasons I talked about Progo a fair bit was simply due the fact there was a distinct phase of the game where they were under particular suspicion and I didn't find the reasoning for them being so was particularly strong.

I know you weren't initially convinced by Ahri at all but I see no reason she can't be mafia. Her posting style is chaotic and all over the place but especially in a newbie game I see no reason that can't just be a mafia player who enjoys playing that way. And she has specifically used elements of this for arguing against being mafia - things like posting a lot, which could easily be a mafia trying to drive the town in a certain direction. In fact, I'd have if anything found it stranger if she'd started out one way and then become much more calculated due to a teammate telling her to be more restrained.

And thus far, either way, her posting style has pretty much helped her evade any proper and consistent suspicion...so if she is mafia, it's working.

Like I said, I reckon we've got one mafia in the Andante bandwagon and one mafia who avoided jumping onto it. I personally doubt SM was mafia but it strikes me as unlikely that a mafia would back out like that, and quite frankly would border on game-ruining behaviour if someone decides to throw the dummy out simply because they were coming under suspicion instead of defending themselves, so I'm inclined to TR you for now. That leaves me and Ahri, and it isn't me. Not to mention I'd at least been consistent in suspecting Ahri long before the Andante bandwagon was even finalised.

[MalcolmTucker]

Reading back, your suspicion of CSF may have some legs, very, very flippy around the time of the vote. Lots of theories/suspicions without necessarily being too concrete on any.

[Cape90]

ProgoWoshua

- Start is a bit NAI as it's a bit off topic and stuff. 61 I am going go have to disagree with on a fundamental level, but sure Ahri and Lickety were both towny in that beginning I suppose..
So Progo votes Andante in 69 then as soon as Andante comes in with 70 Progo literally gets off Andante for ??? in 71 and gets on Cat Scratch in the same post. Then gets off Cat Scratch in 81, just a post later for them. I do this as town pretty often so +points.

The read on 82 of at least one of Cat and Ahri being town virtually means nothing, but is later explained in 86. So I guess it just means Cat/Ahri aren't w/w and Progo think they are likely T/T.

Progo is defensive in early game, but not in a scummy way, they just kinda are. I think the observations made on 131 are mildly town, however, this caught me a lil off guard "

I think Ahri is trying way too hard to get on everyone's good terms

". Like this sounds like a scum read on Ahri. However I also see the argument that it means they are drawing attention to themselves in early game, but it is worded in a way where it makes it look like Ahri is mafia. y'know?

Progo, why are you saying 263 right after 228 where you called Sommus like, you top town?
I agree with 268 on a fundamental level (at least day 1) and think people worry about E-1 too much, like yeah, it should be mentioned when it happens, but it isn't really that big of a deal, like we just confront the hammerer (keeping in mind, yes I know town can hammer too).
Ahri 293 is laughably NAI for the record, if you are townleading with this mindset, could you make room?
Uh 318, Progo, this doesn't address 189 and tbh, I don't think Progo really paid much mind too 72 since Progo's post is worded a lot better then Pale. And then I learned there isn't too much on the SR on Progo by Cat Scratch anyways, but I do agree they have been a bit on the sidelines so far at least.

331

The following sentences come from a player who sounds like an inno:

"What do you mean by "no more of this reactiveness"? I genuinely TR everyone who's voting for me. Should I just not respond at all?"

k but what is 335 tho? There is this 348 post that I really dunno how to feel about, like idk how fruitful the info is there in asking about that and stuff. 360 and 365 and 367 are just mech talk.

Off topic, but I hate how Ahri casually dodges tinfoiling on Andante in 386 the "controversial" player section where I have yet to see Andante actually being a controversial scum candidate.

On topic I dunno what to make of Progo's response to Ahri's 386 in 411 and honestly, it is kinda strange how Progo all of the sudden is saying that scum is one of Ahri/Lickety/Cat Scratch which all this entirely feels like inorganic "I have to make these reads literally the opposite I had them in early game" makes 0 sense other then they wanted to re-eval, but it also feels like an inorganic way to go about re-evaluating.

LMAO alright slow down Progo in 436 also I think the whole "I'm sorry to disappoint you, but my reads aren't aligned with yours anymore." in 411 looks slightly unpartnered but *shrugs*, I guess.
468 is ??? 472 " If it turns out that she isn't" bro what? Could you go back to being obvtown in early game like you were or
474 Verdict: It was something, but

kinda towny

isn't one of the phrases I would use there.

About 532, like, 131

was

a thought and post from you right Progo? Though I feel like 560 is a kinda towny thought process for what kinda feels like a generalized idea? However with this thought, what about this thought 268? Where is that? You say you disagree with Cat Scratch's idea in 566 but this doesn't make too much sense with the aforementioned 268 post.

Progo, you know your scumreads shouldn't just be limited to like 3 people right :p

Cool so the bottom 2 on 692 don't really mean too much.

720
791
Finally some worldbuilding by ProtoWoshua, you love to see it. I kinda like the write up on Andante tbh. The nulls feel a bit lazy though, I think there is something to have been gained from Malcolm/PaleAle/Korina over there but eh.

792 is a cursed VC.

I really don't get the argument by Andante that is saying "oh you put me at E-1 you want me dead" like, Proto already explained why they went off Ahri anyways. Andante, they also called you a scumlean which means they think you could be scum *yells at tombstone*

Welp, time to yell at another tombstone. 827 is correct but it also implies there is one other scum outside of those 3 so meh.

VERDICT:

townlean

lock town in beginningish of the game
shaky near middle section
kinda better at EoD, where they got off Ahri felt organic at least.

[Cape90]

ProgoWoshua

- Start is a bit NAI as it's a bit off topic and stuff. 61 I am going go have to disagree with on a fundamental level, but sure Ahri and Lickety were both towny in that beginning I suppose..
So Progo votes Andante in 69 then as soon as Andante comes in with 70 Progo literally gets off Andante for ??? in 71 and gets on Cat Scratch in the same post. Then gets off Cat Scratch in 81, just a post later for them. I do this as town pretty often so +points.

The read on 82 of at least one of Cat and Ahri being town virtually means nothing, but is later explained in 86. So I guess it just means Cat/Ahri aren't w/w and Progo think they are likely T/T.

Progo is defensive in early game, but not in a scummy way, they just kinda are. I think the observations made on 131 are mildly town, however, this caught me a lil off guard "

I think Ahri is trying way too hard to get on everyone's good terms

". Like this sounds like a scum read on Ahri. However I also see the argument that it means they are drawing attention to themselves in early game, but it is worded in a way where it makes it look like Ahri is mafia. y'know?

Progo, why are you saying 263 right after 228 where you called Sommus like, you top town?
I agree with 268 on a fundamental level (at least day 1) and think people worry about E-1 too much, like yeah, it should be mentioned when it happens, but it isn't really that big of a deal, like we just confront the hammerer (keeping in mind, yes I know town can hammer too).
Ahri 293 is laughably NAI for the record, if you are townleading with this mindset, could you make room?
Uh 318, Progo, this doesn't address 189 and tbh, I don't think Progo really paid much mind too 72 since Progo's post is worded a lot better then Pale. And then I learned there isn't too much on the SR on Progo by Cat Scratch anyways, but I do agree they have been a bit on the sidelines so far at least.

331

The following sentences come from a player who sounds like an inno:

"What do you mean by "no more of this reactiveness"? I genuinely TR everyone who's voting for me. Should I just not respond at all?"

k but what is 335 tho? There is this 348 post that I really dunno how to feel about, like idk how fruitful the info is there in asking about that and stuff. 360 and 365 and 367 are just mech talk.

Off topic, but I hate how Ahri casually dodges tinfoiling on Andante in 386 the "controversial" player section where I have yet to see Andante actually being a controversial scum candidate.

On topic I dunno what to make of Progo's response to Ahri's 386 in 411 and honestly, it is kinda strange how Progo all of the sudden is saying that scum is one of Ahri/Lickety/Cat Scratch which all this entirely feels like inorganic "I have to make these reads literally the opposite I had them in early game" makes 0 sense other then they wanted to re-eval, but it also feels like an inorganic way to go about re-evaluating.

LMAO alright slow down Progo in 436 also I think the whole "I'm sorry to disappoint you, but my reads aren't aligned with yours anymore." in 411 looks slightly unpartnered but *shrugs*, I guess.
468 is ??? 472 " If it turns out that she isn't" bro what? Could you go back to being obvtown in early game like you were or
474 Verdict: It was something, but

kinda towny

isn't one of the phrases I would use there.

About 532, like, 131

was

a thought and post from you right Progo? Though I feel like 560 is a kinda towny thought process for what kinda feels like a generalized idea? However with this thought, what about this thought 268? Where is that? You say you disagree with Cat Scratch's idea in 566 but this doesn't make too much sense with the aforementioned 268 post.

Progo, you know your scumreads shouldn't just be limited to like 3 people right :p

Cool so the bottom 2 on 692 don't really mean too much.

720
791
Finally some worldbuilding by ProtoWoshua, you love to see it. I kinda like the write up on Andante tbh. The nulls feel a bit lazy though, I think there is something to have been gained from Malcolm/PaleAle/Korina over there but eh.

792 is a cursed VC.

I really don't get the argument by Andante that is saying "oh you put me at E-1 you want me dead" like, Proto already explained why they went off Ahri anyways. Andante, they also called you a scumlean which means they think you could be scum *yells at tombstone*

Welp, time to yell at another tombstone. 827 is correct but it also implies there is one other scum outside of those 3 so meh.

VERDICT:

townlean

lock town in beginningish of the game
shaky near middle section
kinda better at EoD, where they got off Ahri felt organic at least.

[Cape90]

bro I pressed submit once, how dare my laptop do this to me

[Cape90]

I know you weren't initially convinced by Ahri at all but I see no reason she can't be mafia. Her posting style is chaotic and all over the place but especially in a newbie game I see no reason that can't just be a mafia player who enjoys playing that way. And she has specifically used elements of this for arguing against being mafia - things like posting a lot, which could easily be a mafia trying to drive the town in a certain direction. In fact, I'd have if anything found it stranger if she'd started out one way and then become much more calculated due to a teammate telling her to be more restrained.

Later I will have to look into that, for now, it's kinda midnight for me so

[MalcolmTucker]

Yeah I see why someone would look at her posts and get an immediate TR but with every passing interaction/phase of the game I've become more determined she's almost a lock for mafia.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Reading back, your suspicion of CSF may have some legs, very, very flippy around the time of the vote.

Wut? I distinctly remember you being rather non-commital towards the end of the day as well, being on Ahri but okay with Andante lim (758) and even Progo to a lesser extent in (760). How is that different?

Lots of theories/suspicions without necessarily being too concrete on any.

Examples? I have been pretty adamant about scum in {Korina, you, Progo} and definitely wanted to lim on the Andante wagon today.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Actually dumbfounded that post was written by Malcolm, who had the hedgiest ISO in the game on day 1.

[MalcolmTucker]

Reading back, your suspicion of CSF may have some legs, very, very flippy around the time of the vote.

Wut? I distinctly remember you being rather non-commital towards the end of the day as well, being on Ahri but okay with Andante lim (758) and even Progo to a lesser extent in (760). How is that different?

Lots of theories/suspicions without necessarily being too concrete on any.

Examples? I have been pretty adamant about scum in {Korina, you, Progo} and definitely wanted to lim on the Andante wagon today.

My point there was that I was going to vote for Ahri but I didn't think Andante was a particularly horrendous candidate because she'd not contributed much so far and had been fairly flippy. There's a major difference between that and being between three different candidates as you're making out here, which is a really, really big stretch. I reckon Progo is probably TR but not completely in the clear, as I've repeatedly said from the start.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Why is having three different candidates in a game a big stretch with 2 scum...? If I only had 2, that'd be tantamount to solving the game.

[MalcolmTucker]

Why is having three different candidates in a game a big stretch with 2 scum...? If I only had 2, that'd be tantamount to solving the game.

You had two distinct votes within a short time before the elimination was made, would have been happy to off me, and said you wouldn't have been against a Korina elimination either. That's three candidates you either voted for or strongly suspected. Inherently different to me having one I was strongly suspicious of, and another player I wouldn't particularly be against us getting rid of if agreed upon. Major reach.

Honestly, reading back, if one mafia did just on the bandwagon and another avoided doing so then you/Ahri as a team wouldn't be particularly beyond the pale. Not convinced it's you yet but as good a candidate as anyone else on the bandwagon.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Well in my case, I preferred Andante, and was willing to hop onto the other two to help push a lim through so we don't end up not limming anyone. Feels like splitting hairs.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Anyway, at the risk of trying to read too much into wagon dynamics

It definitely felt like Andante wagon was easy to get through compared to building every other wagon yesterday.

That's why I think limming on the final Andante wagon definitely feels like the right move today. I think there's at least 1 scum there.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

If she were scum, I still don't see why Ahri would push a counterwagon to Andante yesterday if she's scum here.

Ahri was an elim contender yesterday. By pushing a counterwagon on Korina, she risked the Andante wagon losing momentum and the elim swinging to her (Ahri) instead. Feels unnecessarily risky.