Open 842: Diffusion of Power [Postgame]

[Shirou]

That's what I meant by saying some stuff it's not optimal to explain early though

if redtea had posted that when I hadn't said anything about giving town points for his nonchalant attitude, I think I would give they a solid town lean atm. I don't think you guys realize how much of a wild approach to scumming they are doing right now if they are scum. In all my 3 years of mafiascum I've NEVER seen a scum slot in the middle of D2 straight up say "I've no reads, so". If anything I've a scum tell about how *often* scum gives reads earlier/faster than town, because they are trying to look town/be a good two shoes most of the time.

However when I had already stepped up for him and explained why I thought it was towny behavior, I can see and maybe even think it's likely that this is so outlandish that it may very well be scum!redtea doubling on the "I've no content to give" point.

[Shirou]

if redtea has consistently played like this without me saying anything about why I was feeling positive about they, I would have been fine to literally die in the slot place perhaps, I think I would have a rather confident town lean on them.

Unhappily I was forced to explain and now can't help but feel like they may perhaps be doubling down on what I found towny, or so.

[Shirou]

if redtea has

had*

[Shirou]

/shrug

maybe I changed my mind, like fua saying this gamestate about talking so continuously about reads on redtea is so annoying and tiresome that I would rather potentially miseliminate and get this over with than to keep up this charade, especially when redtea posts are gradually getting worse and the commitment to giving content just isn't there

VOTE: redtea

I don't believe that much on this flipping scum though. It may, it may not. Their last post is kinda rather bad though so maybe consensus on them was right in d1.

[Shirou]

There? Happy?

Now can we tone down on the walls of "your read on redtea is wrong/scummy!" for a bit from both sides, vote redtea and end the day or something?

I would be fine with that. I doubt there's much more to discuss today if we're simply doing redtea, the big consensus scum read from D1.

[Shirou]

there's not even much to discuss in the first place

like, what do we exactly talk about redtea when we've talked about most of their posts already? There's the recent string of posts to dissect but that's it.

Just vote the slot and get this over with, I'm getting lethargic about this game being like this.

IF they flip town though, we also should turbo eliminate one of GL/Meg/Tejate tomorrow imo.

That's it have a nice day everyone.

[MegAzumarill]

turbo eliminations are always bad especially when there's a decent chance at least one person will have a cop result tomorrow

thank you for coming to my TED talk

[Shirou]

turbo eliminations are always bad especially when there's a decent chance at least one person will have a cop result tomorrow

thank you for coming to my TED talk

this is so LAMIST that it hurts the soul...

even if we all collectively agreed about doing fast eliminations (which I doubt will ever happen), surely enough there would still be time for result claims.

[MegAzumarill]

I've seen mechsolved games lost by quick elims this isn't happening again

[GuiltyLion]

It feels like scum is very much happy with the focus being on inactive slots so I feel like between Tejate/Ydrasse/redtea there is at most 1 scum.

who is the scum that is "happy" with the focus on inactive slots? Every time I've tried to push redtea I've been met with a bunch of resistance and scumreads in return. Same with Ydrasse, nobody is actually pushing her, she's picked up like 1 vote total this game maybe?

the only wagon it felt like most people were happy with was Tejate, and I don't understand who you think is scum specifically that is encouraging attention on inactive slots

[GuiltyLion]

I don't think you guys realize how much of a wild approach to scumming they are doing right now if they are scum. In all my 3 years of mafiascum I've NEVER seen a scum slot in the middle of D2 straight up say "I've no reads, so".

you're right, I don't realize that. I feel like I see lurky disengaged scum all the time, fairly consistently. Reads are the easiest avenue to poke at someone's thought processes and inherently restrictive to future votes/maneuvers, why would scum post them or commit to them if they don't need to?

In my last game, holiday dance, scum!Andante said she didn't have strong reads, then made up some SRs, then literally said later in the day that those weren't her real reads she just felt like she wanted to participate. That was actually the first time I could remember seeing scum openly say they were making up their reads - which I feel is even wilder than just saying you don't have them.

In Shakespeare, the game I played before that, scum!Juliet didn't give any reads, I called her out on that, then she said she was happy to provide if I asked for some but she didn't previously give them cause she felt discouraged/ignored by the thread.

That's just off the top of my head from my two most recent games, in my history on site I've seen plenty of "would scum actually play this weakly/badly?" slots flip scum. Townreading someone because you think they'd try harder or do better as scum is a fallacy.

[GuiltyLion]

and again I want to add that having a slot play intentionally scummy might actually be

incentivized

in this setup because it could draw a cop shot away from the tryhard scum teammates who are positioning themselves to endgame

the thing that makes me a little iffy on that is I don't really see anyone trying to distance/bus redtea. That's the biggest thing that makes me think they could be town, the fact that if they

are

scum there's nobody trying to look good from their flip

[GuiltyLion]

there's not even much to discuss in the first place

like, what do we exactly talk about redtea when we've talked about most of their posts already? There's the recent string of posts to dissect but that's it.

Just vote the slot and get this over with, I'm getting lethargic about this game being like this.

IF they flip town though, we also should turbo eliminate one of GL/Meg/Tejate tomorrow imo.

That's it have a nice day everyone.

what's with the emotional mindset here? Why are you acting like this game is so boring/bad for you?

[Tejate Raichu]

and again I want to add that having a slot play intentionally scummy might actually be

incentivized

in this setup because it could draw a cop shot away from the tryhard scum teammates who are positioning themselves to endgame

THANK YOU. I couldn't figure out how to put this into words, but this is what I was trying to articulate to some extent earlier. That being said, I'm kind of on board with flipping redtea. If it's scum, hey, it's scum. If it's town, while I don't think it exactly solves the game, I think it can help put some things into perspective. For myself, at least.

[MegAzumarill]

It feels like scum is very much happy with the focus being on inactive slots so I feel like between Tejate/Ydrasse/redtea there is at most 1 scum.

who is the scum that is "happy" with the focus on inactive slots? Every time I've tried to push redtea I've been met with a bunch of resistance and scumreads in return. Same with Ydrasse, nobody is actually pushing her, she's picked up like 1 vote total this game maybe?

the only wagon it felt like most people were happy with was Tejate, and I don't understand who you think is scum specifically that is encouraging attention on inactive slots

My point is that scum don't have to play necessarily aggressive if none of the less active players are scum. If there were more scum in that region I think scum would be looking to change the gamestate more

[Tejate Raichu]

That's the thing, I feel like that already happened. Did you see how discussion of redtea at all just dropped? It seemed like no one was keen to talk about them today early on, despite them being the most major wagon from yesterday. No, we jumped right into scum!Tejate hour without even a single mention of the scummiest inactive slot. IIRC GuiltyLion was one of the first people to actually pull discussion back there.

I think it is extremely likely that at least one scum is a very active slot aiming to endgame.

[morph the cat]

That's the thing, I feel like that already happened. Did you see how discussion of redtea at all just dropped? It seemed like no one was keen to talk about them today early on, despite them being the most major wagon from yesterday. No, we jumped right into scum!Tejate hour without even a single mention of the scummiest inactive slot. IIRC GuiltyLion was one of the first people to actually pull discussion back there.

The counterpoint to this is that redtea so far has done nothing much that provokes a big rethink, and just coming into today with a vote there doesn't advance much knowledge. I wanted to push and poke at other slots I'm not townreading, which I've been able to do to some extent.

Not as much as I'd like. The 1v1 back and forth walls are really offputting to me. I never am going to love that style of play, but this game it's actively soul-draining.

----------

I kinda like Meg's voiced concern about rushing to an elim, even though I don't think it's likely to happen in this player list.

[Tejate Raichu]

It wasn't necessarily a comment on re-consideration. redtea herself said that she hasn't given anyone much of a reason to rethink her slot. The comment was more about how there was almost no push when I feel there should have been. The early day was focused almost entirely on a single point (i.e. me being the central wagon), and in hindsight it just looks a little weird that it took so long for redtea to be suggested as another wagon.

I'm not necessarily saying that scum are controlling the debate by actively rushing to redtea's defense, I doubt it's that simple. What I am saying is that, if redtea flips red, I think it's likely that scum are controlling the debate to the point where they never give redtea a reason to come up at all.

[GuiltyLion]

VOTE: redtea

Tejate I am sorry for doubting you

[GuiltyLion]

I think my current working theory is like

AL, fua, Ceph are locktown, but AL/Ceph are kinda taking the backseat and not driving so much, giving scum room to drive discussion

Meg/Tejate are limbait townies scum is planning on miseliminating

redtea is scum

there is another scum in implo/Shirou defending them so much (hot take wild conspiracy theory would be both but I don't really want to confbias myself that much yet)

and then the pool of people I need to sort more definitively alongside the implo/Shirou group is numberQ, Ydrasse, morph. All of them feel fairly town to me, numberQ especially I've liked a lot of his posts today, but it's not impossible there's a deep scum in there just coasting (assuming there is a town in implo/Shirou).

I thought about my "nobody is bussing redtea" thing but I think it's stupid, in a set up with so many cops scum probably don't want to bus unless they absolutely have to

[fua]

I think my current working theory is like

AL, fua, Ceph are locktown, but AL/Ceph are kinda taking the backseat and not driving so much, giving scum room to drive discussion

Meg/Tejate are limbait townies scum is planning on miseliminating

redtea is scum

there is another scum in implo/Shirou defending them so much (hot take wild conspiracy theory would be both but I don't really want to confbias myself that much yet)

and then the pool of people I need to sort more definitively alongside the implo/Shirou group is numberQ, Ydrasse, morph. All of them feel fairly town to me, numberQ especially I've liked a lot of his posts today, but it's not impossible there's a deep scum in there just coasting (assuming there is a town in implo/Shirou).

I thought about my "nobody is bussing redtea" thing but I think it's stupid, in a set up with so many cops scum probably don't want to bus unless they absolutely have to

This is pretty much where I’m at. Implosion and Shirou kind of gave me bad vibes today.

[GuiltyLion]

I think an implo/Shirou/redtea team actually makes a ton of sense, but let's flip redtea first

it would make sense why both of them are taking so many potshots at me, beyond Meg/Tejate there's really not a lot of slots this game that are super easy to push, and I tend to be a bit all over the place and scumreadable so it's both necessary and convenient for scum to be trying to set me up to keep me in the limpool

[Tejate Raichu]

VOTE: redtea

Tejate I am sorry for doubting you

No offense taken, self-defense has never been my forte in mafia. I used to be even worse at it years ago in SH's heyday, if you can believe that.

[MegAzumarill]

is redtea at e-1 atm, I think so

[Tejate Raichu]

@catboi

VC pretty please?