Open 842: Diffusion of Power [Postgame]

[Cephrir]

perhaps i don't have to read the isos, i can just ctrl-f redtea

here are some points of interest

Want to focus on redtea and ydrasse but they don't exist so

It feels like scum is very much happy with the focus being on inactive slots so I feel like between Tejate/Ydrasse/redtea there is at most 1 scum.

this second post feels like it could come from a Team Inactive

no
I misread the elim threshold
VOTE: Redtea

this is the fourth vote aka E-3

redtea flip gives good info
tejate flip gives good info

redtea is scummier than tejate

ergo kill redtea

Missed those posts in particular

and yet impressively you still haven't commented on them

You seem to have misunderstood what I meant by quick elimination.

I was referring to quick eliminations from daystart rather than just fast forming wagons. Hence the allusion to mechsolves, I want any cops to be able to out their result before an elimination. Besides Quick lims off of daystart isn't enjoyable for anyone involved.

Besides the redtea wagon has been fairly reasonably considered an option for a while for me at least
It's a difficult to read slot that I think has a decent chance of being scum. Especially considering the interactions of GL and Shirou about it it gives us something at least.

there does not appear to be any trajectory between "scum are targeting inactives" and "actually i've always been fine with a redtea wagon"

i guess i should do nsg too

[fua]

Little rude? Not even close.

You're throwing a tantrum and invoking a fake mechanical reason for a read you're extremely sure of because you're to cowardly to argue it without; in a way that is going to stifle discussion on the day.

Just warning, i will turn on Fua if this is "Gambit" and morph flips town, and i don't care about reason.

Oh hey look it's the exact consequences of the action that I'm literally begging you to avoid by coming clean.

My wife died after protecting this bullshit :/

[tweet][/tweet]

My piece has been said. If Morph flips town after we talk eliminate me tomorrow.

If you are town, and you're pulling this shit, you will lose more than this game.

You'll lose the respect of every town player in this game.

I even consider the possibility you're town because the first time anyone faked a guilty on me it was chucklefuck town.

It just seems very unlikely to me that a real cop would lie about their result, but apparently it's happened before with Wake88.

Wake faked the guilty on me, spayhalf, in 2013. He's still blacklisted.

The only way fua comes out of this game with a shred of respect is if they're scum faking a guilty. If they're town, which I suspect, then the payment is un-erasable contempt.

I'm incredibly disappointed (and angry) that if they're town and their role claim was true, they decided to do this rather than cut the Gordian knot at the center of this game.

There is apparently no bottom to my disgust. The more I consider the ramifications of today and what that means for tomorrow, the more my contempt grows.

Yeah, this is directed towards me the player. Sure.

[Cephrir]

she basically does nothing with him ever

[Cephrir]

i want to comment on the debate occurring but i don't think what i have to say would be helpful so i am choosing to shut up

[morph the cat]

i want to comment on the debate occurring but i don't think what i have to say would be helpful so i am choosing to shut up

All the cool kids put it in the in-thread neighborhood tags.

[Cephrir]

well, it's more that i don't think it's what you need to hear right now, so i will save it for when you're in a better emotional space

[Cephrir]

also i believe we established that i am not a cool kid

[MegAzumarill]

she basically does nothing with him ever

to be fair it's hard for anyone to do anything with redtea.


My trajectory has mainly been waiting for the slot to do something then when it wouldn't I figured to throw it out.

I don't think they did anything interacting with anyone iirc since the time I repped in

[Cephrir]

it just would've been nice if there were evidence of that thought process occurring in real time in your posts. instead, you have what a former math teacher of mine would call "transmission issues". or a discontinuity.

[Shirou]

You can be as hurt as you like about my reaction to be fake-guiltied.

And can be as wrong as you wanna be about our alignment.

It's going to be a fact in evidence, though, and you're never going to have the mafia moral high ground over us in this game. We're completely justified in our opinion of your play.

hm, I should go away but

this is the first post from morph I felt like it comes from town!morph more often than scum!morph?

moral high ground...would scum use that specific kind of word? I think they would fake indignation but this way of phrasing it would be peculiar as scum I think

maybe I should start trusting other people reads rather than my own...especifically Amazon's read on Morph. I think they thought the slot was more likely town than not although never much confident on it.

UNVOTE:

I dunno who to vote outside of GL/Tejate/Morph though...Meg?

(GL because I'm cop checking him tonight and Tejate because he's a claimed n3 doctor so fua is gonna obligatorily have a check as long as they are alive, unless they decide to be confirmed scum for a 1:1 trade with fua)

I did all this because I wanted to avoid ever being today miselimination if I was wrong on redtea

how does making yourself look painfully like redtea's scumbuddy do this

hmm, by giving a good mech reason to let my slot alive just for today...?

it's fine if I die later on, I kinda thought it would be inevitable if redtea was scum...

[MegAzumarill]

it just would've been nice if there were evidence of that thought process occurring in real time in your posts. instead, you have what a former math teacher of mine would call "transmission issues". or a discontinuity.

I mean if you want to math it the odds of two players interacting when they are two of the lowest post count players is pretty low regardless of alignment.

I can't say that I COULDNT do this as scum but I feel like I would be done something with the knowledge that redtea is a scum flip at some point there. I don't think and don't expect to get towncred there for my vote on them, but I'd definitely try as scum, especially considering aversion to it outside of elo

[morph the cat]

.especifically Amazon's read on Morph. I think they thought the slot was more likely town than not although never much confident on it.

Uh yeah about that. Not that I expect anyone to take my word for it OR do the meta homework of reading old penguin games, but the exact place she put us in her reads and the way she talked about us is uh, exactly where she puts town reads she thinks have useful PRs and doesn't want them to be too obvtowned to eat early kills.

[Cephrir]

this is the first post from morph I felt like it comes from town!morph more often than scum!morph?

moral high ground...would scum use that specific kind of word? I think they would fake indignation but this way of phrasing it would be peculiar as scum I think

this is exactly the sort of thing scum could get genuinely indignant about

[fua]

I think Morph should claim.

[fua]

Actually I think everyone should keep claiming. Why listen to Shirou?

[numberQ]

2809 leaves such a bad taste in my mouth. I don't know what a good way is for town to justify their poorly-received gambits, but this did not look like that. The gambit itself is totally disproportionate in terms of risk/reward, and everything Shirou has said about it afterwards has just been scum desperate to paint it in a better light. I really struggle to see it as anything but that. Shirou was pretty high on my reads list up until the GL thing yesterday, and the aftermath today is just making me feel worse and worse about the slot.

VOTE: Shirou

At this point I don't see a reason to see out their cop claim. It will just muddy the waters more when they do turn out to be scum. Unless we have a strong contender for who their partner is and people think there's value in letting the cop claim go through for some reason.

There are sour opinions on morph's alignment so maybe somebody will argue that they're a better lim today. I'm not getting those same vibes, morph's felt null-town for most of the game and as I go back and look at the reaction to fua's fake-claim I do think it's +town.

[numberQ]

I keep going back and forth on how the claim should go, or if it should at all. What if every claims cop or doc, and only then do we go back around and claim nights? I have no idea if that's helpful at all but for some reason I'm still nervous about publicly outing nights for either role. I can't put it into words, so maybe it's baseless.

[Shirou]

Actually I think everyone should keep claiming. Why listen to Shirou?

ouch...

sigh

numberq

please

I'm begging you and anyone with the same idea...

it's fine to eliminate me and scum read me even if I come up with a guilty tomorrow, but please not today.

[morph the cat]

Little rude? Not even close.

You're throwing a tantrum and invoking a fake mechanical reason for a read you're extremely sure of because you're to cowardly to argue it without; in a way that is going to stifle discussion on the day.

Just warning, i will turn on Fua if this is "Gambit" and morph flips town, and i don't care about reason.

Oh hey look it's the exact consequences of the action that I'm literally begging you to avoid by coming clean.

My wife died after protecting this bullshit :/

[tweet][/tweet]

My piece has been said. If Morph flips town after we talk eliminate me tomorrow.

If you are town, and you're pulling this shit, you will lose more than this game.

You'll lose the respect of every town player in this game.

I even consider the possibility you're town because the first time anyone faked a guilty on me it was chucklefuck town.

It just seems very unlikely to me that a real cop would lie about their result, but apparently it's happened before with Wake88.

Wake faked the guilty on me, spayhalf, in 2013. He's still blacklisted.

The only way fua comes out of this game with a shred of respect is if they're scum faking a guilty. If they're town, which I suspect, then the payment is un-erasable contempt.

I'm incredibly disappointed (and angry) that if they're town and their role claim was true, they decided to do this rather than cut the Gordian knot at the center of this game.

There is apparently no bottom to my disgust. The more I consider the ramifications of today and what that means for tomorrow, the more my contempt grows.

Yeah, this is directed towards me the player. Sure.

This is entirely about you as a player.

Cabd asked the mod if we'd overstepped into attacks on you as a person as opposed to a player, and he said that we hadn't. And we're not going to.

I understand that you feel we were too rough on you. But your claim that we bullied you is straight up farcical. We REACTED to being fake-guiltied. Whatever you thought you were accomplishing with that, you didn't get what you wanted.

If you had READ my reaction to the fake guilty in the other game you could probably draw some parallels to our play today and some things that are quite different.

The main thing that is different is that I won't ever trust someone fake-guiltying me to come clean of their own accord after that game. And I won't ever assume that a player is CAPABLE of analyzing the results of their gambit on me before they prove that they can.

You happened to pull your fake guilty on a hydra that is fairly infamous for gambiting as both alignments in closed setups. We see no value in town doing high risk gambits in this setup, so we've played conventionally and we will continue to do so.

Here's something you can try at home: Go back and look at other players' reactions to your fake guilty and see which ones look sincere and uninformed.

[implosion]

I don't really understand what the point of massclaiming is/was supposed to be. Early in the day I'd thought about suggesting it but couldn't come up with any good reason to. Inevitably there will be a 6/6 spread of cops/doctors among all non-redtea players living and dead and we'll learn nothing on that front, and players like cephrir and fua claiming their specific roles/nights could help guide scum on what conf-esque player to shoot. Although I guess part of the cat is out of the bag, so shrug either way.

Shirou's posts seem to me to be the equivalent of "aha, it was just a jolly jape"? And, yeah, it seems like precisely how he would have at this point forced himself to play as scum. :shrug:. idk what I think in this game concretely atm.

[Shirou]

You've no idea how much I want to actually leave and die in this game

but...just not today. Tomorrow okay? Pretty please?

The PoE scum pool here is getting so small that we either win with cops checks or we find out some of the believed claims are false. Please don't let me ruin that by being miseliminated today, I would feel even more guilty than I already feel about my poor play here.

[Shirou]

Shirou's posts seem to me to be the equivalent of "aha, it was just a jolly jape"? And, yeah, it seems like precisely how he would have at this point forced himself to play as scum

you guys have really low expectations of my scum play huh...

[morph the cat]

I think Morph should claim.

[implosion]

This is why I think massclaiming is the right play for today. Mafia’s going to kill cops like Shirou and I anyway. Unless you want to massclaim on Day 5 when there’s 5 people left in the worst case scenario I think today is the time to do it. Doctors should claim what night they’re on so that they have to follow through with agreed upon targets. Cops don’t have to claim their night if they don’t want to.

The "like shirou and I" here is a bit of a heavy lifter. E.g. if Ceph were to claimi cop, then ceph would be a *drastically* better shot for scum than Shirou tonight.

[implosion]

Shirou's posts seem to me to be the equivalent of "aha, it was just a jolly jape"? And, yeah, it seems like precisely how he would have at this point forced himself to play as scum

you guys have really low expectations of my scum play huh...

.-.

you're heavily suspected. it's good scum play to make wild gambits in a situation like that.