Infernal Affairs - Game Over!

[Nero Cain]

TR why did you unvote me?

[Tejate Raichu]

Something I find a bit off doesn't speak to me quite as much for a vote than what I thought happened.

[Galron]

Yes, it would.

VOTE: Frozen Angel

This shtick is getting old

Not to mention, hopping off a wagon on someone you scumread is pretty bad when we should be forming wagons

Spoiler:

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VOTE: Galron

[MagikHorse]

Have I said I think CSF is town yet?

Because I think CSF is town.

[Frozen Angel]

Shamefully prod dodge and announcing VLA for 2 days.

I'm having a bit of a work crisis IRL and haven't had any time to read any of the game. Terribly sorry everyone

[Scorpious]

Scorpius is relaxed, that's for certain. What sort of confusion were you seeing though?

Also sort of against their "I'm down to policy elim" post too, partially on principle partially because there really wasn't any reason to bring it up that early in the day. Kinda feels like planting the seed in our heads.

Well,the last game I was in with NM it became an absolute shitshow(I was even told I made his sig which i did not :sad face:), and I was told by someone in this game that I have no idea what this list is capable of. I'm really ok with gimmick by Keeper, because it's consistent and I actually do feel there is some game solving there. I would never start a policy launch because sometimes I'm not certain what is certain grounds to call for one, but if people are an agreement for it and it seems warranted. I'm down.

[Scorpious]

Also ToS, right on.. I found that game about 20 years ago. It's still a thing?

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: Nero Cain

I think Firebringer is correct about slots hiding behind gimmicks, like. Maybe it's just because I haven't actually played Binding of Isaac, but this doesn't look like playing the game with a gimmick so much as playing the gimmick with a game, to the point that it is actively detrimental to communication.

Having said that, my vote goes to Nero because jumping in to chainsaw Keeper over a pretty tame and reasonable push is much scummier, and a flip there is likely to shed light on Keeper themself.

[The Keeper]

VOTE: Nero Cain

I think Firebringer is correct about slots hiding behind gimmicks, like. Maybe it's just because I haven't actually played Binding of Isaac, but this doesn't look like playing the game with a gimmick so much as playing the gimmick with a game, to the point that it is actively detrimental to communication.

Having said that, my vote goes to Nero because jumping in to chainsaw Keeper over a pretty tame and reasonable push is much scummier, and a flip there is likely to shed light on Keeper themself.

People completely ignoring that you can ask for me to give you 20/20 if needed...

[Radical Rat]

Also, I watched the movie. Unfortunately the YouTube video was down, so I had to find a sketchier version of it with a questionable translation, BUT I thought it was pretty good. Mixed feelings on the ending, which I will not elaborate on for the sake of those who haven't seen it yet. Also mildly disappointed by the lack of actual demons and shit, I was expecting the infernal to be literal.

Now then, I also have some setup spec based on my viewing. I suspect there may be an impostor Among Us!

play laugh track

But for real, IF the setup is actually based on the movie and it's not just a regular game with movie flavor, I expect a traitor to exist, as well as a reverse traitor. So watch out for that

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: Nero Cain

I think Firebringer is correct about slots hiding behind gimmicks, like. Maybe it's just because I haven't actually played Binding of Isaac, but this doesn't look like playing the game with a gimmick so much as playing the gimmick with a game, to the point that it is actively detrimental to communication.

Having said that, my vote goes to Nero because jumping in to chainsaw Keeper over a pretty tame and reasonable push is much scummier, and a flip there is likely to shed light on Keeper themself.

People completely ignoring that you can ask for me to give you 20/20 if needed...

Fair enough, but regardless Nero's sudden defense of you by deflecting onto Firebringer is, as the kids say, a bad look.

[Galron]

What's a reverse traitor and why do you expect one?

[Radical Rat]

What's a reverse traitor and why do you expect one?

Like a Traitor but with the alignments swapped.

So instead of a secret Mafia in the Town, it'd be a secret Town in the Mafia. Though actually now that I'm typing this out, it probably doesn't exist because of how wildly game-breaking it would be if they just outed the whole scumteam in their first post, unless the scumchat is anonymized somehow. Perhaps a Miller or something instead then, idk.

In any case, the reasoning was that the premise of Infernal Affairs (the movie) is that an undercover cop and a Triad member in the police force are struggling to outmaneuver and expose each other, without blowing their own respective cover. Traitor seemed like the natural way to implement such a concept.

[Nero Cain]

a bad look.

am I scum or do I just look bad?

[Radical Rat]

a bad look.

am I scum or do I just look bad?

Yes

[Galron]

What's a reverse traitor and why do you expect one?

Like a Traitor but with the alignments swapped.

So instead of a secret Mafia in the Town, it'd be a secret Town in the Mafia. Though actually now that I'm typing this out, it probably doesn't exist because of how wildly game-breaking it would be if they just outed the whole scumteam in their first post, unless the scumchat is anonymized somehow. Perhaps a Miller or something instead then, idk.

In any case, the reasoning was that the premise of Infernal Affairs (the movie) is that an undercover cop and a Triad member in the police force are struggling to outmaneuver and expose each other, without blowing their own respective cover. Traitor seemed like the natural way to implement such a concept.

Okay. I can see that I guess, but it does seem pretty unlikely.

[Nero Cain]

also, there were 18 pages b4 my attack on Fire. Did you think those 18 pages were worthless and me pushing Fire was the only thing worthwhile in the thread?

but I think my content is being misrepresented as a defense on keeper when its an attack on fire

[Toogeloo]

So the movie is kind of like The Departed?

I claim Reverse Traitor. I know a scum team exists, but wasn't informed of their identities. I win when I expose them all and remove them. I can be alive or dead to achieve this win condition.

[Galron]

Tejate wagon obv not going, and I'm not as sure about him as I was. Voting Frozen Angel was a decent thought when I was falling asleep, but not feeling it now. UNVOTE: Voting Keepter as a PL, meh. I could go either way I guess. I don't like 340 and would like to see a better answer there.

I dunno. Tejate still seems scummy to me.

[Nero Cain]

then vote him?

[Galron]

I'm looking at his ISO

[Galron]

Reliance on self-meta

seems concerned about his appearance

Firebringer unvote because he didn't want a quickhammer when FB had 3 votes w/ 10 needed for hammer

magikhorse pass to Day 2? but not solidly town reading MH???

There does seem to be some solving going on though. And he's from a different site, so that's a factor I think needs consideration also. I've seen people come in from other sites and get mizzed because they just post differently than this site's meta.

I've been tunneling also, to the detriment of other reads.

I'm solidly on the fence.

I think that Firebringer unvote just pops out at me as something that scum would use as a bad excuse to get off a wagon. Almost tstbs. It could also just be someone unaware of what's going on in the game, but he's top-posting, so I doubt that's it.

And I'm still not understanding the magikhorse thing.

I'd like to see more pressure here I think.

VOTE: Tejate

[Save The Dragons]

keeper, what do you think of tejate

[Andante]

Honestly, I don't like either side of that 1 for 1 between Tejate and Andante the longer I look at it. Too many assumptions, doesn't really seem much like either was reading the other well.

No, saving people for later in a large game is not that suspect. Feels like an overreaction at best.
No, I don't think Tejate was scumreading Andante for "not townreading him". That assumption is just plain bad.

Yes, I do think ducking away to "avoid lolhammers" was very weak and scummy reasoning. There were nowhere near enough votes for that concern from Tejate.
No, I don't think poking Hellbooks for information about Tejate is a bad thing. Feels like reading way too deep into nothing, and I buy Andante's response to that point.

Hard to say which looks worse.

How do I even look bad from that? I think it's terrible to go "X gets a d1 and d2 pass" LESS THAN 24 HOURS into the start of a game. especially a giant game. Like, sure ok say "I'll sort X later" but by saying you're giving X a pass, it's like, "I'm not even going to attempt to read you till later" which doesn't feel like pro town to me at all. I know we all have people we wait till later to sort, but I'll at least make an effort to read them. no one gets a full 2 game days pass... no one

Ignoring Innocent Child roles and other mechanical reasons (e.g. Night 0 cop checks) to confirm a town early, some people can be read really easily by the effort which they push the game from a standstill, or through meta reasoning. Tejate seems to believe that it's far more likely that my attempts to get the ball rolling are from town than scum (assuming I'm reading his posts correctly), and though he's hesitant to townbin me too early in fear of me just being a ridiculously strong scum with an amazing opening (A presumption here, but I have seen this sort of thing turn on people too when an early townread turns out to be more manipulative late) decided I wasn't worth looking into so early. Could be he simply thinks I look town enough for now that he doesn't want to spend his time looking deep into a fairly active poster he believes got a strong town start until there's more evidence? Sems the most likelt scenario in my eyes, seconded only by a scum pocketing attempt.

Mostly though it seems bad that you can't tell that it's a difference of opinion and keep pushing it like absolutely everyone has to play the exact same way, or that nobody can set a player aside so early. At best that's a bit self-centered, at worst it's attempting to undermine the early townleans on me and keep me closer to the lim pool.

It also ignores that Tejate later said that I had to at least maintain some of my current behavior to remain in this state, and that it wasn't going to exclude me from attention should I start to behave more strangely, which kind of leads me to believe that it really is just a fancy "I'll look at you later" line that's being taken far more strictly by you than them.

Ok, even if I just go with your first sentence. You like that Tejate wrote you off as "likely not maf" in 24 hours? like, that's my entire issue with this, nothing actually game related happened, it's essentially just "you post a lot. I'll read you later" like, why say that? why not interact with someone that talks a lot? like, if all your effort/enthusiasm is why Tejate isn't reading you till later... why have I not seen Tejate interact with you at all, like, not even using you to help get reads. I'm a little suspicious of why I'm suddenly the bad guy for "not declaring you're off the table" like, sure in all likelihood I'm not yeeting you day 1 or day 2, but that doesn't mean I declare that then stop interacting with you, like, this equation is not adding up.
> Mostly though it seems bad that you can't tell that it's a difference of opinion and keep pushing it like absolutely everyone has to play the exact same way
Uhhh I'm not keeping pushing anything? I read, I gave thoughts on the posts I read, yall are the people who keep bringing up this 1 instance, like do you think I'm not aware we've approached this game differently?
This whole post just seems way too defensive for me just going "lol idk how I look bad"

And lets face it, you've hardly generated much content yourself, have you..?

nice deflect

that's irrelevant (and i'd argue untrue)

Your basis is my lack of content.
The same is true for you.

It's about as relevant as collecting consumables.

I don't have the means to deflect, and I'd hardly call returning your call out a deflection.

Its not my fault you decided to come at me armed with My Reflection.

Keeper... Don't even try to argue that you've had content thus far... you dont

BTW I've played against town!Andante in rapid games as both alignments and she has good intuition; her early reads are likely to outperform what we can expect based on random chance.

I've played against scum!MagikHorse once before in a newbie game and they fooled everyone.

I'm not sure if this is good or saying I'm bad... I'm gonna go with it's a compliment and say thanks! But you're not putting me into your pocket! I'm onto you!!

@hell 350

There are enough days left to move the execution onto MagikHorse. I think it's pessimistic to assume Magik is a vanity wagon.

I'm more afraid of scum!Magik running away with the game compared to scum!Tejate.

I will say, I can see the reasoning behind wanting a Magik wagon, but I don't necessarily agree with it yet

can you case magikhorse

Does this mean you TR Magik? cause if so (I know I'm asking this like 200 posts later) I want to know why you think there shouldn't be a scumcase... like, I want to know, other than "effort!!!" what makes magik town? (And I only want answers from before this post... not the 200 after)

BTW I've played against town!Andante in rapid games as both alignments and she has good intuition; her early reads are likely to outperform what we can expect based on random chance.

I've played against scum!MagikHorse once before in a newbie game and they fooled everyone.

I've only had three scumgames on this site. One of them I got I'll and replaced out halfway through D1 after coming under fire. Another was a rapid game over the course of 2 hours or so where I was scum with Fire and was the second largest wagon. The third my mafia buddy got elimned D1 and I surrendered Day 2 because I was jailkept and mechanically screwed. The only game you can be talking about is the latter, and I don't have time to check that game out from work to refresh my memory.

Still, what about my play this game tells you that I'm a well playing scum instead of a well playing town? There has to be something that pings you, unless you're just fearmongering?

If that is true (I'm not looking at the games cause I don't care enough) that's really interesting then... saying Magik has a strong scumgame... cause if that's the definition of really good? I have a professional level scum game lol

Imagine wanting to eliminate someone because you are scared of their scum game...

At least people are saying stuff... and like "trying" to make reads... just saying