In post 35, Firebringer wrote:my only goal this game is to not fall into any scum pockets. So therefore if i never trust anyone, i can't be pocketed.
Instant victory condition
my reads in divide and conquer so bad. Shameful. Disgraceful.
I should really blame norwee for it all
wow blaming someone else for bad reads? minus town points for you... still a towny town though!
VOTE: andante
just looking to fill my hot take quota for the day
That’s a spicy take!!! Sounds like you have a reason for it, and I’d LOVE to hear it
I'm also getting a major incongruency here between your analysis of my play and your own play. Like you voted firebringer who you were calling town but me voting you like very semi-seriously is this big deal to you?
In post 700, Dwlee99 wrote:Like you voted firebringer who you were calling town but me voting you like very semi-seriously is this big deal to you?
The fire vote was a joke in RVS? and yes. bad votes on me are a big deal, just like a lot of these Fire votes are so bad right now. big deal.
Okay and my vote on you was based on fluff posts on the first five pages and your weird vote on Fire after calling him town repeatedly? I don't understand why one vote on you on page 6 could ever be a big deal when it's like 10 to lim
In post 705, Andante wrote:ok can we just discuss something else? like something actually relevant? If not galron/frogs today, then who?
fire? rat? tej?
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
You can not blame us for not reading a word you say when like 1/25 of your posts even feel game related. Like, what is your goal here? Who do you want to send to the darkness or whatever? Who's from the dark side? Cause you're NOT playing this game... you're just "oh not my fault no one reads me"
In post 409, Firebringer wrote:Also ur posting is like literally not cogent to understand a mindset which is even worse than using a gimmick, because ur making this a guessing game of what the hell r u trying to say or get at with ur posts.
But gimmick usage to hide intentions is good enough for a good push.
I have an easy solution... just don't read a word keeper says lol
In post 440, Nero Cain wrote:dude, they are a hardclaimed gimmick alt. It's not that they are "hiding" its just this alts gimmick play and those have always been around and you know it. This "overusing gimmicks is a scumtell" is very black and white.
DIE U SITH LORD
Using a gimmick doesn't make them town? In fact, the amount of times Keeper has gone "yall don't like my gimmick" has been way too many already to be town I think
So soon after, in 555, she shades FB for pushing Keeper. That's a weird progression, no?
I mean yeah, maybe FB was lazy by not elaborating, but lazy doesn't equal scum. and I right away understood what he was referring to in 607.
609 wants a hard stance from toog 615 I feel like Toog was saying that we can judge Frogs in-game content without speculating that he's scum that's intentionally ignoring this game. If you want to argue that he's scum that's defending Frog then fine. I don't think Toogs comment that he doesn't have a stance on Frog b/c he's unmemorable is mutually inclusive. You can again argue that Toog not scumreading Frog while being "unmemorable" is off but I don't think "hey this guy is unmemorable but also we can judge him on his content ITT." is a contradiction or the "gotcha" moment Fire thinks it is.
rereading Toog's post in 593, I really expected Toog to have at least some opinion on frogster based on frog's content in this game.
And considering he (probably jokingly) had Toog in his non-yeet pool earlier, it was good to see some sort of scrutiny there.
But rereading 553 in its entirety though, I feel like Andante's progression was better than I remembered. She called a out a few FB posts that she didn't like. So eh, maybe not as solid as I remembered.
In post 672, Andante wrote:yeah sorry i have no idea what I was saying there, like, rereading it I have no clue where my thoughts were, cause yes I agree with "overusing gimmick is a scumtell"
@____@
but you think FB was being opportunistic for pushing Keeper. Why?
In post 675, Andante wrote:when there's literally a wagon here going "vote frogs for not posting here!!!"
I don't think people are simply voting him for not being here. (There's several other people who haven't been present either, and there's no wagon on them.)
it's that Frogs' investment in this game is nonexistent. That doesn't square up with how he was working on a "huge" scumcase in the beginning of the game. and I think that's because he rolled scum.
In post 684, Andante wrote:oh 100% the "I can't post cause it's not perfect" is a scum stall
If you feel this way, is it such a terrible surprise that so many people are voting for frogster?
and I don't understand why you're trying to push away from this wagon
Okay so I have a mess of four cases now, my original unfinished Magik scum case, a second Magik scum case I started working on after Magik's reaction to my push, the unfinished scum case for TR and the unfinished case showing the partner tells between Magik and TR. I need to get something out here so I tried combining the first and second case not allowing myself to start any more cases until I got something posted. That became a mess too so I'm posting this as it is.
Magik scum pinged me early on in this game at 50 when they chose to waffle out of the setup spec, which is not something I expect from town!Magik. Am I allowed to link to the scum PTs of already completed games? If so I can show why I think Town!Magik is less likely to skip out on the setup spec.
~~
*
Magik scum case #2 Another example here in 603 Magik reacts to my push and while distracted (out of character) starts guessing roles and showing knowledge of abstract setup mechanics. Something they are not doing in the game thread because I think they are posting their setup spec in the scum PT.
~~
Then 52 and 60 stood out to me as being tonally off in a LAMIST way like Magik felt pressure about not appearing townie enough. These are all just early things which made me very weary of Magik, the parts that really made me believe Magik is scum started happening next:
74, 76 After skipping out on the setup spec Magik starts waffling hard with defining his relationship with the TJ slot. It seems immediately clear there is some tension from Magik with regards to aggression toward the TJ slot, and as this goes on in the upcoming posts it appears that Magik feels stuck choosing whether or not to bus the TJ slot, which is why Magik's upcoming reads on TJ are so wishy wshy and have weird energy. I think it's weird that Magik is uncomfortable about this early wagon forming when they also didn't want to participate in the setup spec; what are they hoping to accomplish for town with all those early posts if they don't want early wagons and they don't want to try and solve the setup?
Now I grouped the most important tells together from my first case below:
Magik using early thread activity to push/shade easy mislim slots:
In post 76, MagikHorse wrote:I don't think he's saying there's an elim risk, but more that he doesn't like the number of votes there? It's why I want to grill him to figure out just why this is too many in his eyes.
My vote was mostly just RVS with a mix of wanting to push the game along (because the Fire wagon wasn't really doing that) but I'm not particularly liking his response.
He shifted from troll-ish (Post 56 & Post 64) to serious (Post 75) after just one vote on him.
Then Post 84 is keeping up the defensiveness while Post 88 and Post 90 seem almost unnecessary - there's no reason to send them unless you're trying to appear agreeable for some reason.
Could just be an overactive, new-ish user with some downtime in the evening - his listed timezone is PST so that makes sense - but benchmarking to the "normal" I don't particularly like it.
I'll keep my vote here.
Why is this shift scummy? Even I was a bit goofy for a little while, giving in to a little bit of the RVS fluff, and became serious around the same time as your vote too. Do you scumread me for doing the same thing?
In post 120, MagikHorse wrote:What cause do you have to hide it from the town at this stage of the game?
going to wickedly dodge this question and say that you are also a Person of Interest so I would like to get to know u better. for examples: how are you doing rn? can you return to your state of mind from when you made this statement?
"Incredulously quizzical of the unusually dodgy" isn't a hard state of mind to return to, especially when said individual is angling towards obfuscating as much as possible to continue to be unusually dodgy. Not_Mafia can testify that I abhor excessive dodginess after Newbie 1860, it just doesn't help anyone sort you at all and gives off the appearance that you feel the need to hide yourself from the thread.
what feelings and thoughts were running through your head? did you think about how it would have been read when you wrote it or did you just think-and-send?
feel free to wickedly dodge these questions back! fair is fair!
You could render my thoughts of the moment in a single sentence: "Why try to look town instead of just
being town?
"
I see no reason to try and force a townread on me when my play should be plenty enough to go by on itself.
I have in my notes that the comment in 133 about just being town is really bad shade, implying hellBooks didn't understand because they aren't thinking in that way.
Magik tries to bail out of the hellBooks push later by the way:
In post 181, MagikHorse wrote:That could be said of every interaction, and says nothing at all about the tonal shift.
it should be clear that my post was not on-its-face genuine given that it didnt come with an unvote. im still invested in pushing andante but i'm not scumhunting
super
seriously right now because im still identifying people im interested in poking at, i've only meaningfully chatted with a few people, and we're still at a stage where reads change pretty quickly ! did my post stand out to you before or after firebringer brought it up?
A good question. Before, though I didn't mention it immediately so I could try to figure out whether I was blinding myself with some sort of playstyle difference given your tight-lipped start.
Qualifying himself here in 196, Magik afraid of how he is perceived by the hellBooks slot.
Magic waffling (esp around TR), fence sitting and shading others
Spoiler:
In post 106, MagikHorse wrote:I get the same sincere vibe from them too, though 44 irks me a little bit. If I hadn't talked with Tejate before we signed up and saw him chatting about setups I'd expect it to be +scum equity, but not after seeing that sort of curiosity offsite.
I do like 94 as a response at least, and that's where a lot of that genuine tonality can be found. It's not argumentative, it's simply laying it down as it is and moving on. It's something I've felt before a time or two, and can get behind.
I'm seeing Tejate slightly +town at this point in time overall, but I'll keep an eye there in particular.
In post 114, MagikHorse wrote:Fire is a gut thing for me. As long as I avoid onions my gut should hopefully lead me to success on that front, because I'll admit that I suck at reading trolley accounts any other way. I still remember it going terribly wrong with Not_Mafia in one of my old newbies when I tried to actually think him out.
Also welcome to the Galron party CSF. There's complimentary cookies by the door.
More excuses for waffling in 114 and 106. I read Magik as stalling here and waiting to see the most convenient wagon to park a vote on unsure if he should go for a bus yet on TR.
In post 225, MagikHorse wrote:Policy lims really don't attract me the way they once did. Just not much information on them, too easy to hide scum following along, and I just really don't see the need for anything like that looking at this game so far.
Magik is sitting waiting to see where the wagons fall before making a commitment, hoping to get town cred for it by taking a stance against policy lims.
In post 318, Tejate Raichu wrote:280, feels very much like they're searching for reasons to hop onto my wagon where they don't realistically need that many. As if they're trying to build a strong case against me so they can push me as the main wagon later in the day.
287, subtle shade without actually trying to engage my slot. I don't think asking for thoughts on other players is very unusual or particularly scummy, but the way it's phrased in this post just has some ineffable bad energy about it for me. It feels agenda driven rather than earnest.
If they were trying to set up a wagon for later, why start pushing you now instead of, you know, later? If it was just shade I could maybe see it being a setup for future use, but not when they throw their vote down so quickly and then continue to push it through. That narrative doesn't fit so well.
The shade in 287 is pretty bad though. Does Andante have utterly no thoughts on me to write off the idea so quickly? (the answer is no, he admits to "liking my lines" in 294.) It's rather self evident that they took the whole "day pass" thing as scummier than most others, and maybe I've got a little bit of a bias here, but it really feels like he stuck to the surface level and doesn't believe that anyone else could read me as more town than he thinks, or at least not enough to look past me for a little while?
I dunno, the motivations here are murky.
Here in 323 Magik is avoiding taking a side but clearly egging on the heat toward Andante.
In post 333, MagikHorse wrote:Honestly, I don't like either side of that 1 for 1 between Tejate and Andante the longer I look at it. Too many assumptions, doesn't really seem much like either was reading the other well.
No, saving people for later in a large game is not that suspect. Feels like an overreaction at best.
No, I don't think Tejate was scumreading Andante for "not townreading him". That assumption is just plain bad.
Yes, I do think ducking away to "avoid lolhammers" was very weak and scummy reasoning. There were nowhere near enough votes for that concern from Tejate.
No, I don't think poking Hellbooks for information about Tejate is a bad thing. Feels like reading way too deep into nothing, and I buy Andante's response to that point.
Hard to say which looks worse.
Again, shading both sides but with a bias toward Andante, avoiding taking a stance to wait until seeing how wagons fall. I think Magik leaves unsaid here that Magik would like to hammer Andante but is willing to go through with Tejate if necessary.
and I don't see why not? Like I'm not saying its a fire-tire panda team or anything just that I don't think Fire "shitposting" and calling for votes on himself is particularly pro-town.
of course, he and others will just wright it off as shitposting and say that scum wouldn't bring that much attention to themselves
but that's how I feel so eh
Firebringer is a shitposting trolley player. One that at least plays the game unlike some, but this behavior is stuff I have seen from them before as town in Anything uPick in the Good Luck Buddy hydra, so it's somewhere between NAI to +town for him.
In post 145, Scorpious wrote:wow 4 posts from DW in less than 20 minutes.. easy there hoss.. Town DW
Is this a meta call or something?
This already looks suspicious to me, Firebringer being +town makes no sense at this point in the game, and what does that even mean, it looks like a madeup read.
i feel like im being strongarmed into wanting to townread you from you being likeable
That’s not a bad thing!!! I’m town! Feel free to TR me
@CSF I mean, it’s not a TR I’d die for, just an early gut read I had, consider it a town lean vs lock town read, and I liked the overall energy coming into the game, felt like Fire wasn’t afraid to post/afraid of appearance, was just having fun, breaking the ice, making it super easy for people to make an entrance. That kind of stuff I generally view as townier rather than as scum behaviors
Wait were u really townreading me
I feel like at this point u should know that’s my personality ur town reading not play
This is a possibility, but I also haven't see you rooting around for scumreads as scum yet. Haven't seen any of your scum games though I'll admit.
Could you link me to a scumgame or two of yours?
Now Magik is pretending to be scum hunting while really setting up for an excuse to readflip the ridiculous +town assessment of Firebringer from 149. Magik knows Firebringer could be wagoned and doesn't want to get called out on for being inconsistent with their weird early townread of Firebringer.
Okay yeah, Firebringer did do the whole "I'm scum scumread me" thing as actual scum too. Very mild townlean retracted, clearly this is the scummiest of the scums in the universe.
Now the fake townread has been retracted almost immediately and there is a joke so Magik's stance on Firebringer is left unclear so Magik has the option to wagon Firebringer later.
In post 260, MagikHorse wrote:Nah, not interested in chucking out Fire. We'll see his loyalties in good time. Don't know much about Toog short of the fact that he never rolls scum, so I'm fine with sorting him out later.
Now despite retracting the town lean on Firebringer earlier in 168, Magik claims not to be interested in a Firebringer wagon, so he doesn't get viewed as pushing easy mislims. I think Magik wants to wagon Firebringer based on their earlier progression on the slot, but Magik is waiting for someone else to be vocal about starting the wagon so he doesn't get blamed for it.
In post 279, Nero Cain wrote:a lil' yeah. What has fire said was straight outta yer head?
155 and 169 together form a larger block of matching thoughts, which I spoke more about in 196. 197 is another.
So I guess mostly his questioning of Hell.
This is a lie IMO, I have no idea what a town!Magik could be seeing in these posts from Firebringer.
Also, is Magik townreading, scumreading, what on Firebringer at this point? The read progression here appears made up because Magik is like claiming to not even townread Firebringer, so why is this post here? It looks like Magik is claiming to be null on Firebringer while saying things that sound like a townread while posturing himself to join a Firebringer wagon given the opportunity.
Phew okay. Now I'm to try to organize my notes on Magik being partners with Tejate, there was something I just saw recently.
Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.
not gonna lie, I like this case stuff from frogster, like they just put into words how I was feeling with Tejate/Magik. idk about partners, but the interactions of the 2 feel very odd
