Open 845 | 09:12 [Game Over]

[Frogsterking]

R V S

VOTE: sAVE THE DRAGONS save the FROGS instead.

By the way, I'm going to post an enormous WoT soon.

[Frogsterking]

lets pretend its rvs VOTE: dwlee

Yes and I will use my survey strategy (the SSS) to supplement the Day 2 RVS. The SSS and Day 2 RVS will go even better than usual because of the extra info we got from D1.

VOTE: Galron

I RVS Galron because the first letter of my name is an F and the first letter of Galron's name is a G so his name comes after mine alphabetically.

[Frogsterking]

Yeah Koba seems like a little townie

[Frogsterking]

Okay whatever UNVOTE: Galron VOTE: muffinman

[Frogsterking]

Explain townsend on muffin please

[Frogsterking]

All i can understand so far from you is that you want me to reread muffin's iso because there are things in it scum!muffin wouldn't include. These things I'm looking for in Muffin's iso have been described so far as anger, "solviness", and sincerity.

[Frogsterking]

All i can understand so far from you is that you want me to reread muffin's iso because there are things in it scum!muffin wouldn't include. These things I'm looking for in Muffin's iso have been described so far as anger, solviness, and sincerity.

fixed the post for u
a
i have a pretty good grasp of when a person is showing high cognition of analyzing the game, and muffin and dwlee are 2 players who are showing the heavily here.

while dwlee is a good scum player - i see no cheap distancing tricks or anything like that from them and other such things that they have as part of their scum game, and stuff that is mostly prevalent in their town games.

can you describe why you think muffin is scum, which would be more helpful for me to dissect and possibly if you are right i might see it.

That's a logical fallacy, argument from authority. Even if you're a good scumhunter it's not a good point for why th particular read is right.

My vote is based on looking at their role in how D1 played out. It's not a deep read it's just circumstantial. I moved to muffin because you said this play is NAI from Galron.

[Frogsterking]

Koba it sounds like there's something you think Town!NM would have said or done something differently, can you explain what that is?

[Frogsterking]

Also don't get the scumreads on malcolm

If you think NM is scum then this makes me think Malcolm is town and NM is trying to vote buy them

[Frogsterking]

177

@koba

[Frogsterking]

What type of scum player is NM

[Frogsterking]

UNVOTE: muffinman

[Frogsterking]

What type of scum player is NM

[Frogsterking]

Okay that's good to know about NM. You're most likely townreading one scum now right?

[Frogsterking]

Well I'm pretty confident you're town, so that brings my PoE down to 3. I wonder if the night kill bears any clues.

[Frogsterking]

Why not me and Galron from your point of view?

[Frogsterking]

194

@koba

[Frogsterking]

214 I think is fake.

[Frogsterking]

You don't scumread 214?

[Frogsterking]

Oh okay yeah now that i took a second look at it i really feel town pings.

[Frogsterking]

Malcolm seems townie i should take another look at galron's iso

[Frogsterking]

Oh okay yeah now that i took a second look at it i really feel town pings.

What initially gave you a mafia vibe and what turned you away from that so quickly?

I thought you were town telling so hard I got paranoid.

[Frogsterking]

Oh okay yeah now that i took a second look at it i really feel town pings.

What initially gave you a mafia vibe and what turned you away from that so quickly?

I thought you were town telling so hard I got paranoid.

Once my levels of paranoia decreased i realized that you're super townie.

[Frogsterking]

Wow 230 is a great post!

I wonder who could be the partner in a scum!Galron world?

[Frogsterking]

*Both to be mafia, I mean, re the Galron/NM interaction. One town/one mafia in there I reckon.

I see! Are you down to flip NM first with me?

[Frogsterking]

Malcolm and koba are persuading me to scumread NM

[Frogsterking]

*Both to be mafia, I mean, re the Galron/NM interaction. One town/one mafia in there I reckon.

I see! Are you down to flip NM first with me?

Unsure at this point, Galron gives me a stronger mafia read at this point than NM and I'm very wary of getting an immediate bandwagon going too early given out last turn and what happened there. Need to be careful this time.

Hmm and maybe NM shouldn't even be scumread, they should be townread!

[Frogsterking]

Like I say, I'm keen on the view one of NM/Galron is mafia. But if one turns up red the other is green for me.

I think the case has been cracked.

VOTE: NM

Is there any reason we can't wagon NM?

[Frogsterking]

I think you're increasingly scummy actually.

So you don't have a problem wagoning NM?

[Frogsterking]

I think you're increasingly scummy actually.

I think you're increasingly scummy actually.

So you don't have a problem wagoning NM?

Also..are you experiencing townie paranoia?

[Frogsterking]

Malcolm did you have any new thoughts on NM?

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: malcolm okay this is based on a gutread and sheeping Koba's initial PoE. Gut read is on 214 not to trust. I lied about townreading malcolm to create overconfidence and see where he pushes.

I don't really have an

FoS

for the partner at this time. I might be able to read Koba's alignment based on read progression so I would like to see Koba present another attempt at a full solve.

[Frogsterking]

do people just not read anything I say or..

I mean I still have to guess to some extent based on what you've said.

[Frogsterking]

Well if I decided to sheep your currect PoE I would be back to voting Galron.

[Frogsterking]

I don't know what I need to do to win at this table.

[Frogsterking]

It seems if I allow Malcolm the possibility of my having townie paranoia about his slot, and I strike a deal with Malcolm to sort out each other's slot on a later Day, we could both agree on a D2 execution on Galron.
I wonder if Koba has any reason to oppose a D2 Galron wagon..

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: Galron

I'm expecting the probability that Malcolm and Koba will eventually compromise on Galron for D2, and I think Galron is a good D2 execution play.

[Frogsterking]

I think you seem kinda townie dwylee, based on D2 posting.

[Frogsterking]

I'm not expecting there to be a hammer really

[Frogsterking]

I don't believe Galron would get pushed through that easily if they're scum. I put Galron at e-1 and you can feel the tension surrounding that slot. I think Galron is Malcolm, Koba and I's "2nd best" pick for scum, so if Galron's partner is between Malcolm, Koba and I and one of us lied about FoSing Galron as our second best pick, then I scum read reluctance to follow through on the Galron wagon from each of the three of us.

I gut read Galron's push on me as SvT.

[Frogsterking]

I think you're increasingly scummy actually.

So you don't have a problem wagoning NM?

I think you're increasingly scummy actually.

I think you're increasingly scummy actually.

So you don't have a problem wagoning NM?

Also..are you experiencing townie paranoia?

I need to understand what you're asking because neither of these posts appear to have anything to do with what I posted other than physical proximity.

Thank you, Dwlee.

Are you going to continue to disregard this question, Frogster?

The answer is that you don't know what townie paranoia is because you're not a townie.

[Frogsterking]

I'm not flipping my read for the wifom argument i think it's nai

[Frogsterking]

I don't think it's a logical conclusion that you have to be completely scum read or town read based on your play.

[Frogsterking]

Galron didn't move his stance on NM off of waffle mode when prompted and didn't understand what I meant about townies being paranoid (due to lack of TMI). Now Galron is reacting by asking me a lot of stall questions which I read as a scum tell.

[Frogsterking]

What's wrong with the logic?

It's an actual fallacy, the all-or-nothing fallacy or something like that.

It's also known in cog psy as a distortive thought. It's called black and white thinking or something like that.

[Frogsterking]

thats E-1, please someoen unvote so we can maintain discussion time for now

What else needs to be discussed

You could probably post a reads list

[Frogsterking]

Yeah Galron seems scummy still to me in their recent posting

[Frogsterking]

thats E-1, please someoen unvote so we can maintain discussion time for now

What else needs to be discussed

You could probably post a reads list

Why him and not me?

And you continue to pretend I don't exist.

Let's see one then!

[Frogsterking]

It's okay Galron you're just at e-2.

[Frogsterking]

Yeah Galron seems scummy still to me in their recent posting

Can you quantify how?

I think Galron's reaction to being voted is at best null. I think it's a little scummy in actuality. I think Galron tried to plant fake associatives with their votes and there isn't the townie indignation response.

Galron didn't move his stance on NM off of waffle mode when prompted and didn't understand what I meant about townies being paranoid (due to lack of TMI). Now Galron is reacting by asking me a lot of stall questions which I read as a scum tell.

Is this how you think Galron plays town/scum or how you think everyone plays town/scum

I think this is Galron's scum game.

[Frogsterking]

@malcom

I'm saying that

I

sheeped Koba's initial PoE which lead to me FoSing you.

[Frogsterking]

Galron is now also the 2nd FoS of NM

[Frogsterking]

Galron is now also the 2nd FoS of NM

That reads list was probably put into random.org

I thought it may have been in order of most recent activity with Galrom and NM moved to the bottom.

[Frogsterking]

Koba's read progression makes sense D2.

[Frogsterking]

Koba does scum!NM have foresight?

[Frogsterking]

I'm town bulletproof

[Frogsterking]

Hey Galron do you have anything to say about how dwlee just put you at e-1?

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: NM

Dwlee tomorrow

[Frogsterking]

Game is solved. NM + Dwlee

[Frogsterking]

Well no but okay I guess

Who then?

[Frogsterking]

Hmm

[Frogsterking]

Game is solved. NM + Dwlee

What makes you so confident about this?

My intuition was right about you hiding something.

[Frogsterking]

Game is solved. NM + Dwlee

What makes you so confident about this?

My intuition was right about you hiding something.

You thought I was mafia, did you not? That's different to having a role. I'd not even found out much of note either for most of my posts, I was largely just posting like a standard townie. Not sure that can be used as justification for an entirely different take.

I don't think you posted like a standard townie, I think you wrote 214 differently because of your role. I mis-attributed the pattern I saw in 214 as a scum tell which was my mistake.

[Frogsterking]

I want to know why Frogster townreads muffin

They have what I learned as "bored blue" tells

they are VT and bored and muffinman is unlikely to attempt to fake that as scum.

[Frogsterking]

I want to know why Frogster townreads muffin

I missed something that Koba picked up on D2 regarding your alignment. I don't know what it was.

[Frogsterking]

Well that's weak

Yeah because it explains your increased presence in the thread right now. You have a win condition that can be pursued with rhetoric. If you were VT you wouldn't be here posting in the thread right now.

[Frogsterking]

Okay Dwlee you can try to convince me to change my mind. I will be here for a little while now to respond.

so here's who i think is town and likely wont vote for today:

Malcom / Frog / Muffin / Dwlee(if PR)

and who the scummies are located in:

Galron, NM, Dwlee(not PR)


i see myself at worst having 1 of these wrong, and I think if anything its Muffin because their latest string of posts felt weird but their overall play has been good.

I'm the Follower so dwlee is not a PR

Do you think this happens if NM is my buddy

NM are you actually the PR, I was thinking over the night that you might have fake claimed to draw night kill or something but then also maybe scum with Koba to do something fancy there idek

WHO KILLED KOBA LOL okay this game is so solvable now

Yeah I was faking, half to try and draw the NK, half for shiggles. Koba kill is... interesting. It feels like a wifom kill but why would scum not want the dwlee-Koba conflict in ELo?

If I was VT I wouldn't be posting in thread? In ELO? What?

This is all rhetorical which implies you have a position you want me to adopt. I don't believe if you were VT you would be attempting to convince me to adopt a position right now, no. That's how social deduction games work. I deducted out the other possibilities (largely by sheeping Koba) and that helps me to see the agenda in your posts, Dwlee.

[Frogsterking]

What are the links in 421 Dwlee?

[Frogsterking]

Rhetoric is a tool that town and mafia need to use to be convincing. Those 3 links are my last three town ELOs

Okay I'll take a look. What do you want me to pay attention to specifically in these games?

[Frogsterking]

That I'm using rhetoric while you claim that's scummy

Okay reading now

[Frogsterking]

Nice hammers in 2259 Dwlee.

[Frogsterking]

Post 327 in the second link has an example of you using rhetoric as town at limlo.

[Frogsterking]

Oh no not this one. I've been linked to the White Flag game (the third link) before and it's not a pretty sight. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here and just agree that you're rhetorical as town at limlo in this game.

Overall I'll give that you're rhetorical as town 33% of the time based on the links you showed me. Unfortunately the links you showed me are likely to be biased toward including moments where you were rhetorical as town.

If I were to take a random sample of 5 of your town limlo games played in the last year, do you still think you will probably be town and rhetorical at 33% of your limlos?

[Frogsterking]

I have another question for you Dwlee, why and/or when do you think Koba FoSed you D2? That's a genuine question, I've looked at D2 a couple times trying to figure that out.

[Frogsterking]

im gay and also have read none of the game

lets pretend its rvs VOTE: dwlee

ok dwlee is town :3

ignore dwlee they are just big mad i got them in a recently completed game >:)

its ok dwlee because i am confident I can deliver you a big old scum on a silver platter here hehe

i actually do this regularly on replace ins

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87680

you were in this game, i replaced in, refused to catch up at the start


viewtopic.php?f=51&t=88427

this is a recently completed game i replaced into, i also did not read any of day 1 when i replaced in, just the current page.

ok so dwlee what if i told you that i was confident on NM being mafia?

VOTE: NM

and id be willing to bet that the PoE circles around them if i were to put in further effort

we are absolutely not rushing this dayphase btw

Maybe now:

ok i read dwlee's full iso and they're lock town

IC

im saving thsi game with dayplay reads even though we wasted d1 lim on a pr

[Frogsterking]

The super low activity scum strategy works!