Open 845 | 09:12 [Game Over]

[MalcolmTucker]

O hi.

VOTE: Malcolm

That's not very nice of you.

[MalcolmTucker]

VOTE: Malcolm

That is also not very nice of you.

[MalcolmTucker]

O hi.

VOTE: Malcolm

That's not very nice of you.

Oh my bad VOTE: Frog

That's not very nice to Frog.

[MalcolmTucker]

Sup

VOTE: malc

Never eating muffins again.

[MalcolmTucker]

As the legendary Malcolm Tucker, yes.

[MalcolmTucker]

I agree that Malcolm is looking awkward in this game, but I don't think this one is a scummy awkward. I think it's a new player awkward.

Not a fan of Dwlee trying to kill him over it. He should know better.

PEdit: I can also vote StD.

VOTE: StD

Mostly just bantering back and forth, wasn't much else to say on the first page until your (presumably) fake claim.

[MalcolmTucker]

also the specific language bugged me

"I can see house lying about this as scum"

it's not actually calling house a liar about it but it leaves the door very open to transition into that position later while suggesting to people that he might be lying

like non-confrontational shade

I see what you mean but I think that's perfectly understandable on the first day a few pages in when everyone is still sussing out their reads. Perfectly valid not to be particularly committing to any theories you might have.

I largely agree it's the type of thing mafia could pull to make themselves look like erratic townie having fun and trying to draw out scum, but not got enough of a meta read on House to judge how likely that'd be.

[MalcolmTucker]

I'm just catching up...why the hell did we elimination STD so quickly and with so little general consensus? Like there were essentially two pages of back and forth exchanges and then we eliminated a player without giving it much discussion at a fairly early point in the game. And since then this has barely received any recognition or resulted in anyone being extensively suspected or quizzed over it?

[MalcolmTucker]

i think at worst you kinda just opened the door for viability for malcom to be town there? not like explicitly shown that they are scum, so at least that is helpful in a town!malcom universe here.

we'll see how malcom responds.

What are the accusations particularly based on anyway beyond initial vibes? I only made a handful of posts in day one and in a few hours when I wasn't around nearly everyone else bizarrely decided to eliminate a role player without any extensive discussion over it.

[MalcolmTucker]

The rage is palpable.

Flippant response to a genuine and fair question.

[MalcolmTucker]

Hi Malcom! Would be able to tell me what you yourself observe as the biggest difference in your town games and your scum games?

I generally try to be more careful and guarded if I'm mafia, albeit that doesn't always come off.

As a town I generally try to be quite analytical on stuff like votes and player interactions but being town I'm perhaps more likely to contradict myself with jumbled thoughts/reasoning since I'm not necessarily trying to cover my tracks over anything.

This is only my fourth game on this site though.

[MalcolmTucker]

I just skimmed through a town game of yours and already see a glaring difference - but I acknowledge the lack of length in this game could cause errors , but this is something length isn't applicable *as* much because of, well, where I'm getting the info from

I'm still somewhat hazy on how much we're allowed to discuss re previous games from a meta POV, and I'd be struggling to see much of a difference anyway, but yeah, this has generally been a short game so far, with an elimination made in a short timeframe where I wasn't around to say anything, and half the posts in the thread in the past few hours made while I was asleep. Happy to go further on any particular discrepancies if you've noticed them because like I say, I'm struggling to think what they are.

[MalcolmTucker]

Hi Malcom! Would be able to tell me what you yourself observe as the biggest difference in your town games and your scum games?

I generally try to be more careful and guarded if I'm mafia, albeit that doesn't always come off.

As a town I generally try to be quite analytical on stuff like votes and player interactions but being town I'm perhaps more likely to contradict myself with jumbled thoughts/reasoning since I'm not necessarily trying to cover my tracks over anything.

This is only my fourth game on this site though.

Unfortunately, the former is exactly what I am observing in your early d1, could you try to read through and give any impressions on any players thud far?

I'm personally getting town vibes from Muffin Man despite him kinda pushing the bandwagon on STD. It felt like a very heavy push from someone who'd be mafia, unless he suspected STD was a role player based on very little (seems unlikely on turn one) and just went for it to give mafia an advantage.

I'll need to go back and look more in-depth but I'm finding Galron kinda suspicious. Unless I'm missing anything important joined the bandwagon fairly late without giving much of a reasoning for doing so. Lot of flippant posts in there - one a few posts above, a jokey one about being mafia and deciding to concede.

Personally unsure re your posts after replacing in. The "I've not checked through the game thread and do this regularly" seems like a perfectly valid gambit for someone who's mafia to use to appear as if they're coming across as a townie who's just wildly putting out thoughts whenever they happen to have them. Out of interest, what do you think about the turn one elimination? There's bound to be a mafia member who jumped on that, if not two of them. You and Galron wouldn't seem like a ridiculous possible team.

[MalcolmTucker]

Such as the newbie game I read of yours where you were miseliminated on day 3, where I noticed a much stronger entrance from your slot.

To be fair I was going in heavy on reads, but for the most part the actual substance of them was a bit all over the place. Although it was my first game on the site and I had a meta on nobody nor all that strong a background on a lot of the site-specific terms that tend to be used. I was also quite quiet in the early stages of that game...probably primarily due to timezone stuff with the game mostly being played while I was asleep.

[MalcolmTucker]

Oh okay yeah now that i took a second look at it i really feel town pings.

What initially gave you a mafia vibe and what turned you away from that so quickly?

[MalcolmTucker]

VOTE: std

All you NM

Re Galron - so far as I can see he'd had basically no suspicion of STD beforehand and had even indicated voting MM a short time beforehand and then later switched it up when it became clear a bandwagon was forming on STD instead, allowing for a convenient early elimination.

I'd be interested to know his reasoning for doing so, because thus far most of his posts have largely been either filler or kinda flippant jokes with no consistency in terms of reads or suspicions.

After his vote for STD House indicates he'll be targeting him next if STD is town and we get a flippant "we're mafia we've decided to concede". I dunno, it'd be a bit careless, but it's certainly not kind to a townie read.

[MalcolmTucker]

VOTE: SaveTheDragons

I talked with everyone in the scum PT and we've decided to concede.

I talked with everyone in the scum PT and we've decided to concede.

I didn't agree to this

The interactions between Galron and NM here kinda feel too obvious for them both to be town. I reckon there's almost certainly one mafia between the two of them though. Has NM particularly explained the vote on STD? It's the one that ended the round and like I say was a reckless move given it ended up being a role player who was given limited time to actually mount their side of the story.

NM likewise doesn't seem to have followed this up with an explanation at all as to why they went for STD which seems like a reasonable thing to do if you're responsible for eliminating a townie, which could easily be mafia staying quiet and hoping the whole thing blows over.

[MalcolmTucker]

*Both to be mafia, I mean, re the Galron/NM interaction. One town/one mafia in there I reckon.

[MalcolmTucker]

*Both to be mafia, I mean, re the Galron/NM interaction. One town/one mafia in there I reckon.

I see! Are you down to flip NM first with me?

Unsure at this point, Galron gives me a stronger mafia read at this point than NM and I'm very wary of getting an immediate bandwagon going too early given out last turn and what happened there. Need to be careful this time.

[MalcolmTucker]

Like I say, I'm keen on the view one of NM/Galron is mafia. But if one turns up red the other is green for me.

[MalcolmTucker]

VOTE: std

All you NM

yay

Take that page 4.

yay

I talked with everyone in the scum PT and we've decided to concede.

I generally resist Koba's pushes, and every bone in my body says to resist this one because it's NM.

Vote someone other than NM and I'll sheep.

Alright, if I were to mount a case for Galron. Pretty much all of their early posts say nothing whatsoever until they decide to jump on the STD bandwagon as the fourth vote. Feels like a good time for mafia to do so...you're not the final voter, but also could play a role in tipping it over the line.

Then there's the sort of forced joke about how "we're mafia and we've decided to concede".

As I say though I don't think the partner is NM, not sure they'd be too direct at this point in pushing against them if it was.

[MalcolmTucker]

VOTE: SaveTheDragons

I talked with everyone in the scum PT and we've decided to concede.

I didn't agree to this

im gay and also have read none of the game

Omg same, wanna be masons?

ok so dwlee what if i told you that i was confident on NM being mafia?

VOTE: NM

and id be willing to bet that the PoE circles around them if i were to put in further effort

I'm town though

But I'm town

Again NM's style feels very similar. Drops a key vote to get STD out the game, makes a similar jibe to Galron about being mafia but no accepting a decision to concede, but doesn't really say much as a follow-up or give any substantial reads into the game at all.

Other players may have a better meta read on their playing styles but a lot of this feels like it could easily be mafia purposefully saying as little as possible while managing to eliminate a role player.

But again, a team with Galron strikes me as unlikely...too much interaction and too similar a playing style.

[MalcolmTucker]

I mean Galron essentially hammered STD there

Think he is openwolfing

Just feels like quite an early point in the game to do so right enough. Like I'm presuming neither Galron or NM (whichever is mafia) knew they'd be nabbing a role player. I wonder if for whoever is mafia that has potentially backfired since it ended up being such a key elimination for us.

[MalcolmTucker]

Okay whatever UNVOTE: Galron VOTE: muffinman

UNVOTE: muffinman

214 I think is fake.

You don't scumread 214?

Oh okay yeah now that i took a second look at it i really feel town pings.

Oh okay yeah now that i took a second look at it i really feel town pings.

What initially gave you a mafia vibe and what turned you away from that so quickly?

I thought you were town telling so hard I got paranoid.

Once my levels of paranoia decreased i realized that you're super townie.

Malcolm and koba are persuading me to scumread NM

Reading through your ISO so far Frogster and a lot of this seems quite suspect.

You immediately opt to vote for MM, presumably since they'd been one of the key drivers of the day one vote. But instead of defending this read you ask Koba to defend their town read, which then gives you space to back down. This doesn't seem particularly townie...it can be a useful way for mafia to back away from a read that could be problematic.

And in a few cases (like me) you've flipped your reads quite quickly and at a moment's notice. I dunno if there's maybe a sense of trying to get Koba onside since they've been a prominent voice since joining the game, but it feels as if you're reluctant to make your own distinct reads.

That could just be your style though, and it's not always the worst thing for a townie to trust the reads of others and ask them for more in-depth opinions. But it can also be a way to conveniently avoid having your own takes.

[MalcolmTucker]

It's not that deep, it's a free elimination regardless of whether STD was a power role.

Well yeah but it also then puts Galron at major risk of elimination today. If that's just for a non-player role I'm unsure how much it's worth it.

[MalcolmTucker]

For what it's worth I'll probably still vote Galron because evidence on them strikes me as strongest at the moment, but more than happy to consider other options. Game has been quiet and a few players managing to remain silent without doing too much.

[MalcolmTucker]

VOTE: malcolm okay this is based on a gutread and sheeping Koba's initial PoE. Gut read is on 214 not to trust. I lied about townreading malcolm to create overconfidence and see where he pushes.

I don't really have an

FoS

for the partner at this time. I might be able to read Koba's alignment based on read progression so I would like to see Koba present another attempt at a full solve.

This is a really odd approach and I don't see what you've particularly achieved that's overly useful or beneficial for the town.

I don't see how I've been "sheeping" anyone's PoE, it's fairly obvious Galron and NM should be among our main suspects for this turn and I've tried to compile some evidence to back that up so far at a point when the thread was fairly quiet.

I'm not sure that this necessarily makes you look more mafia though because it's such an odd approach.

Also note you've linked me and Galron as possible teammates elsewhere - this is quite silly given I've pushed for Galron as one of the main elimination targets this now. No reason for mafia to do that to a teammate at this stage. Feels like a bit of a desperate link to make.

[MalcolmTucker]

Mod said I have to post content or whatever so here's a readslist

Spoiler:

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Any actual explanations for those reads or...?

[MalcolmTucker]

Alright, held off last turn since I was unsure of best course of action - but I am town vanilla cop.

I checked Muffin Man on first turn and they came back as vanilla. I checked NM this turn and got back no result.

[MalcolmTucker]

Game is solved. NM + Dwlee

What makes you so confident about this?

[MalcolmTucker]

Game is solved. NM + Dwlee

What makes you so confident about this?

My intuition was right about you hiding something.

You thought I was mafia, did you not? That's different to having a role. I'd not even found out much of note either for most of my posts, I was largely just posting like a standard townie. Not sure that can be used as justification for an entirely different take.

[MalcolmTucker]

Frogster heavily suspected you though, did they not? To the point where their vote was likely all but confirmed. From that POV it's not as ridiculous at all. Why wouldn't MM also eliminate me as confirmed town?

[MalcolmTucker]

You burying NM yesterday also kinda made sense, he was basically gone by that point, notably beforehand you were keen to settle on Galron and very much pushed the idea Galron was basically "openwolfing", which obviously turned out to be incorrect.

MM bringing me into today's game could be a misdirect but seems unlikely, Frogster was much more likely to vote for you in an instant and your only hope probably lies with convincing me to back you, however unlikely that may be.

[MalcolmTucker]

I think I'm not aligned with NM if you look at our joint ISOs. I mean I'm exasperated and annoyed at him claiming roleblocker for instance in the same way I was with house which is pretty clearly antiTMI that they were both not town PRs

I don't think your joint ISOs clear you that much, being exasperated at someone for making a false early claim is such an easy way to put distance between you. Notably you never really pushed too heavily after that.

[MalcolmTucker]

Mod said I have to post content or whatever so here's a readslist

Spoiler:

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Not that NM's read list here exactly went into detail, but I don't see why they put their teammate so high up. Also don't believe NM would jump onto the final vote of an initial bandwagon started by his teammate, personally feels a bit too obvious.

My only concern re MM is that they did push that initial bandwagon but have been largely quiet riding the game out since then without much suspicion. There's a certain convenience to that, but we'd have to be extremely unlucky statistically for my role check on MM to end up being mafia as opposed to townie.

[MalcolmTucker]

Tbf i would also lowkey be down to kill N_M

Galron just scummier tho, so if we have the votes...

MM was willing to go NM day two, so not as if they mounted a particular defence, but did opt for Galron. But I did the same, as did most of us. In retrospect not a lot of thought really went into that vote.

[MalcolmTucker]

Alright, probably not much more to say at this point. Firing into the dark a bit, but chances of us being unlucky with the role read on Muffin feel lowish statistically, and I don't think Muffin brings me into the final day as priority given some of Frogster's posts.

VOTE: Dwlee99

[MalcolmTucker]

Fair enough, second game in a row I've been wrong on a final turn...not my strong suit. Hard game to analyse.

[MalcolmTucker]

Well you were wrong lol

The final mafia was a GOON.

Meaning your result shows vanilla on them.

Your result was literally completely irrelevant

Was aware that was a possibility, but your average finding will still be town more often than goon. Anyway, apologies, called it wrong.