Open 847 - Trust Fall [Game Over]

[Pavowski]

F I R S T

[Pavowski]

I really wanted to vote Meuh but I guess I won't

[Pavowski]

Hi Norwee, are you town this time?

[Pavowski]

You're good

[Pavowski]

Lol is that gonna count as your one trust this phase

Silly enchant

[Pavowski]

who'se town

antlers are sus. i think anyone with three or more eyes is very trustworthy

Pardon me while I switch my avatar to a spider

Nm spiders are scary

[Pavowski]

If this is not a meme by Norwee I'll eat my bong

[Pavowski]

Dude?

[Pavowski]

dude

Well spotted, man

[Pavowski]

thanks
also that is not a misgendering because of the context of this conversation amd i get to say so because
1) it's the big leblowsky who mans everyone
2) i am an ordained priest in the church of the latter day dude

DUDE ME TOO

[Pavowski]

Do you think asking me what i know about this setup is alignment indicative for me?

? i think how you think about it now when trying to do so is potentially alignment indicative yes

like you are questioning enchant's lower activity this rvs right

without considering if that would be more or less likely to be scum indicative here

so i was trying to see if you'd put more thoughts towards it

The game is less than an hour old and we're talking about low activity?

[Pavowski]

Yoink

[Pavowski]

i think limbait is a much smaller factor this game, instead of removing "weaker" players this setup seems to have an inherent tendency to remove "stronger" players who are able to determine others' alignments. consider the 4v2 yeetlo or the 3v1 yeetlo situations that will always happen here

So ... Are you suggesting somebody should trust the limbait early so as to not leave it until yeetlo?

[Pavowski]

We can still do SOCIAL DISTANCING from those we deem enemies of the state.

ok bye

It might if you had waited instead of immediately questioning the question.

...

infinitely less value in that then just engaging enchant on other subjects whenever the opportunity presents itself

like if you fear that enchant is going to have limited activity

then giving enchant the opportunity to burn that limited activity on talking to you about their limited activity is kinda ... !!! right

Yes, i wanted to talk to them.
I feel Enchant would be an easy slot for me to read.
Like can u go 5 seconds without ranting about the seeming lack of logic behind my posts. I'm an completely illogical mad man u kno that right?

Enchant just kinda always pings scummy to me, it's probably a personal failing on my end

[Pavowski]

And ugh my first phone posting faux pas, it probs won't be the last

[Pavowski]

Spoiler:

Good evening everyone! Excited for this game

I really wanted to vote Meuh but I guess I won't

and why is that? What exactly drove you to want to cast a vote for "Meuh" on day 1 of this wonderful game of MafiaScum? Is it my name? Your unfamiliarity with me? If you're so terrified of anything new, I recommend seeking help. Being terrified of the unknown does nothing but make you miserable and limit your opportunities in life. If you keep going like this, I'm very scared for your future...

So I'd suggest you try new things, learn new words, familiarize yourself with the unknown, the unfamiliar, get joy out of it, thrill out of it, enrich yourself from it. Breaking those boundaries is how you'll improve yourself, how you'll prosper. and we all want prosperity, don't we?

I suggest you abandon your old life, erase your identity, and move to a new country. Obviously the life you're currently living doesn't let you reach your full potential, I'm sure you can achieve it! I have a lot of faith in you, Pavowski. Hoping you'll get past your intense agnostophobia and start living life to your fullest, to a point where seeing "Meuh" in a playerlist doesn't bring you fear; but satisfaction of knowing how much you've evolved and learned after living beyond your past limitations.

i think limbait is a much smaller factor this game, instead of removing "weaker" players this setup seems to have an inherent tendency to remove "stronger" players who are able to determine others' alignments. consider the 4v2 yeetlo or the 3v1 yeetlo situations that will always happen here

I mean this true, but I don't think it makes Norwee's point in 60 much worse? If Enchant, like Norwee thinks, imagines themselves being limbait; it's not unrealistic that they'd be less active here? Feels like Enchant posting less would be more of a bias/not fully conscious thing rather than them actively going

"oh, I'm scum, let's just post less"

, so I doubt scum!Enchant would end up posting a lot as scum here if they have a tendency not to generally.
No clue if that's true at all, idk Enchant at all

Speaking of which this playerlist is pretty fresh to me, I've only played with Norwee and Greeting iirc, so hi all the new people!

Holy guacamole what an entrance

I just wanted to RVS somebody but you have me over here rethinking my entire life and I was not prepared for that on a Tuesday

[Pavowski]

like scum just need to get townread strongly by one person and get out yeah, to avoid having to really grind the game out,

This is not a terrible strat for either alignment imo

[Pavowski]

I think that's deserved for wanting to lim me

...

voting you would be offering a trust fall

there are not eliminations in this game

...

I'm aware.

He explicitly said he wanted to RVS me, though, so I assumed that meant the same kind of RVS as a regular game, and he forgot about the gameplay mechanic

I'm being hyperbolic, if it's unclear

To be clear I'm aware of the mechanics, but vote tags are not explicitly discussed in the setup so I wasn't sure if it would count or not and decided to err on the side of caution

My spiritual RVS is on Meuh though, but I will take your opening salvo to heart

[Pavowski]

My goal is to find the scummiest player that is in reality town and trust them, then laugh at y'all.

I ship it

[Pavowski]

My spiritual RVS is on Meuh though, but I will take your opening salvo to heart

What is an spiritual RVS?
Are you claiming to scum or townread them?

I mean that if I could RVS I would put it on Meuh

Not ready to declare a read there atm

[Pavowski]

Meaningless feels harsh but I guess I can't argue

Do you have a take on Meuh at this point?

[Pavowski]

To be clear I'm aware of the mechanics, but vote tags are not explicitly discussed in the setup so I wasn't sure if it would count or not and decided to err on the side of caution

yes they are?

vote tags are explicitly said to be counted as trusts

Well damn, that's what I get for skimming

Guess I'm glad I erred

[Pavowski]

I do not trust you Monkey but I do love your avatar so that's a wash

[Pavowski]

You all know what happens when you trust monkeys right

Everything's all cool at first, you're sharing some laughs, peeling each other's bananas

Next thing you know the monkey is ripping your face off

[Pavowski]

Trust. No. One. gg easy

Except for you, right?

[Pavowski]

Trust. No. One. gg easy

Except for you, right?

Correct!! Only Andante is to be trusted!

You guys I did it

I found town

[Pavowski]

i suggest that everyone leaves Enchant and I in the game forever.

Not sure if lamist or just perfectly reasonably distrustful of this enchant play

I have to think I would do the same but I probably wouldn't say the same

[Pavowski]

Monkey: I should stay until the end of the game

Also Monkey: actually bugs let's you and me dip right now

Uh huh

[Pavowski]

Monkey: I should stay until the end of the game

Also Monkey: actually bugs let's you and me dip right now

Uh huh

am i scum pavowski

Your refusal of enchant's trust seems to suggest that you're not, but then you know this as you've lampshaded it already

And if you're scum with enchant you can't accept it anyway, but this seems like a problematic play if you are scum together

So probably not but I want to see more interactions before I seriously try to decide

[Pavowski]

I had a good think on this on my morning run and you've just about sealed Enchant never leaving whether you're town or scum here, and I don't think scum!monkey burns their partner like that, so you are probably just town here

[Pavowski]

trust me

Yeah no, I'm not ready to lock in yet and I have this funny feeling you might not reciprocate

[Pavowski]

Yeah no, I'm not ready to lock in yet and I have this funny feeling you might not reciprocate

rejection is painful

LIFE is painful

Rejection is a part of life

[Pavowski]

trust me

Yeah no, I'm not ready to lock in yet and I have this funny feeling you might not reciprocate

Trust me, piss off monke.

But you're scummy tho

[Pavowski]

I like Pavowski and as soon as I figure out you're not scum, I'm gonna ask either of you to pair up. I'm not sure how I feel about the boy from Norway, still not sold on their towniness.

#TrustTheMonkey

@Prism

I have a question. Is it possible for more pairings to occur during twilight?

I am going to do myself the favor of not thinking about why anybody would want to do this

[Pavowski]

What the absolute hell. Phone faux pas #2, what I get for trying to post at work

Obviously those posts are not related

[Pavowski]

I like Pavowski and as soon as I figure out you're not scum, I'm gonna ask either of you to pair up. I'm not sure how I feel about the boy from Norway, still not sold on their towniness.

#TrustTheMonkey

@Prism

I have a question. Is it possible for more pairings to occur during twilight?

I am going to do myself the favor of not thinking about why anybody would want to do this

In the first I was gonna ask if you meant pair with each other but I don't think that's what you meant?

[Pavowski]

Just gonna yeet this pagetop while I'm at it and try again from home

[Pavowski]

Ok, weird strategies. No i can’t.

Which strategies are weird?

C'mon man. At least give some reads or impressions

[Pavowski]

I don't get any overtly scummy pings from bugs, which is interesting because in our last game together (micro 1042) I sorta gathered that this was a player who generated scum pings but I still read them correctly as town.

That was convoluted but

I think I have a decent chance of correctly reading bugs as time goes on and I have no reason to scumread there so far

[Pavowski]

alright so we don't triangle that is fine. chaevla is right that we should focus on getting more content from more people so that town people are more yeetable

This is facts, we have decent info on enchant despite the tiny iso thanks to the yolo trust and on monkey, and chav is posting it up... But need much more from some others if we're to do this right

[Pavowski]

Like I'm a little irked by Norwee's posts here tonight but I dunno if I can scumread that because ... Laying low in this game is the opposite of a path to victory for scum

[Pavowski]

I mean there are 3 players with <5 posts right now +Enchant whose play just mechanically makes them more likely scum than not, but somebody is gonna have to trust some of these slots eventually if we're gonna win this so...?

[Pavowski]

saying that lurking is towny makes it not towny anymore because it suddenly becomes a publicly known wifom good job dude

Is this sarcasm, it feels like sarcasm

[Pavowski]

Not going to dive too far into Monkey/Chav except to say it gives me some +Chav vibes and some -Monkey vibes

Tonally Chav is consistent and the resistance/paranoia around Monkey feels fine

Monkey seems fixated on this slot above several others ... maybe it's because Chav is engaging more than most (and they do seem to have history)
But fixating on one slot kinda ... doesn't make sense as a town play

Like, Monkey has stated intent to stay on the island as designated solver, so, why so determined to get a townread from Chav?

Motivation as scum makes more sense here ... like ... I could see the scumchat saying "If I can pocket Chav that would set up x, y, and z"

That being said I still lean towny on Monkey from general play and I'm feeling pretty towny on Chav too

[Pavowski]

Okay yeah ... Chav and Monkey are both +town for this, they can't both be deepwolfing

[Pavowski]

bugspray x enchant
let's make it happen
#EnSpray

Also how, Bugspray and Enchant has both already placed their trust vote.

oh good call lol

HEM said they should do this at start of day 2, when either one can place a new trust.

Hi I'm back from work. There's content. I'ma try to sort thru it.

[Pavowski]

Could Norwee / Chav give some reasons for townreading Meuh?

I see this:

I guess Chav could always be deepwolfing to advance mafia’s goals but I doubt it. If that’d be the case I’d assume her partner is more of a lurker

i start to get slightly paranoid of meuh at times but then posts like this are like,

really good right

because it seems to be trying to fill in all of the possible narratives

while also weighing the likelihood of those narratives at the same time

But I think this is pretty thin and calling it "really good" is a stretch

[Pavowski]

yeah maybe yeah

Greeting should really trust Meuh though.

Like why though. To scum test Meuh? Or do you think this is a good pairing?

[Pavowski]

Bugs trusting Chav is a true wtf

As either alignment I don't think Bugs imagines this trust gets accepted right now

If scum, all Bugs has done is further confirm Chav, so like, why do that

[Pavowski]

Could Norwee / Chav give some reasons for townreading Meuh?

I don't think i've said i townread them.

Ok I thought I remembered you saying you liked some of her posts. Let me ask instead of inferring

How do you feel about Meuh?

How are you reading Greeting, while we're at it?

[Pavowski]

FTR I see Greeting posting but mostly talking theory and barely trying to sort at all so far

[Pavowski]

I swear I didn't spam posts to get myself to another pagetop, but here we are, so

Yeet.

[Pavowski]

*pokes Tris with a stick*

This slot has posted fewer words than the next lowest poster has posts

[Pavowski]

So imo HumanEatingMonkey, you should accept Enchant proposal.
If you don’t want to because you don’t trust em, then let’s talk about that.

So any thoughts on this?

I don't love speaking for other people but Monkey has already expressed the feeling that nobody should fall with Enchant except for Bugs (which I will editorialize to say I think he's only saying because he thinks it can't happen)

[Pavowski]

Andante your avatar is adorable but you have some work to do before I'd be ready to reciprocate your trust

Nothing stopping you from trusting me, tho!

[Pavowski]

Enchant's trust came out too early for a lot of us to feel good about it, but that's not unanimous

Norwee for example is leaning toward Enchant town

[Pavowski]

Pav, why would I trust you if you have no intentions of trusting me back? we only get 1 trust... we need that person to trust us back yes? so you just want me to waste it?

The game is in fact called trust fall, my dude, one of us has to take the leap first and I'm not convinced of your towniness atp, and you seeking a quick exit doesn't help the case

[Pavowski]

Oh Andante replaced. Hi Ydrasse

[Pavowski]

Oh Andante replaced. Hi Ydrasse

i didn’t ignore this hi either i read it but was waiting for follow up

There was no follow up, I was checking the thread quicklike at work... Be home in a bit

[Pavowski]

though meuh's post does make a weird assumption of

the mafia leaving the game in general

and kinda has that time traveler element to it

of almost looking back at actions

as step by step later is better than sooner

because! later could become never but sooner cannot if it has already happened

I like this one from chav

Last time I played this, scum won in a flawless victory. Two relatively quick exits.

Going deep is not required in this setup and patience will pay off for town, especially if we get a few good trusts done. Diminishing options will create the pressure on scum

[Pavowski]

Today got away from me a bit, I'll catch up properly tomorrow but welcome kuri and hello duck

Is that all of our replacements now?

Anyway it's nice some people are finally scumreading me (or at least saying so), that's more like it

[Pavowski]

Omg so many pages since last night. Good trust is good. I'll read the last ten pages later but anything I should know so I can try some phone posting today?

[Pavowski]

Who did Ydra replace again?

[Pavowski]

Trust your gut but I found Andante a little trigger happy back when I had a handle on the game

I've not had the chance to look close at Ydra yet

At the very least give it a little time

[Pavowski]

His reentry around 610 in particular

[Pavowski]

Did not intend to misgender.

I could see that interp, maybe. I don't have much xp with Andante. In the moment it felt a little like it could be scum coming back to a thread, seeing things shaping up some kind of way, and trying to shoot their shot

I'm biased against assuming somebody doesn't know what's going on in general though I've occasionally done it myself... In this very thread, even

[Pavowski]

Holy cow. I have a couple of days away from the thread and everybody wants to leave me on the island

I have sadfaces, but ok, I guess I'd better figure out who I actually want to trust here

[Pavowski]

DUCK do you think I'm scum because lurk or because other reasons?

[Pavowski]

Greeting, looks like you have town!Duck and scum!Meuh

Do you think you're getting off the island or is it gonna be you and me and the scumteam?

[Pavowski]

Okay my head is really doing me in, and the thing that's bugging me is this

Why has nobody trusted Chav today? It's the replacement trio playing footsie with each other which is ... interesting but

scum!Chav was around when HEM gave warning they'd accept Enchant's trust, kept talking back and forth, and basically had every opportunity to accept their own trust before letting HEM/Enchant jump, but did not take that opportunity

I don't see why scum lets that slip

So I'm gonna trust Chav tomorrow morning unless somebody has a really good reason to talk me out of it ... whether Chav accepts or not I'm gonna at least toss a trust this game

[Pavowski]

Decent chance of the worst, greeting, bugs, Meuh

Gut is telling me there's one in the replacements but probably not two, and duck would check that box

[Pavowski]

Okay I tried and it's a bad idea to keep trying, I know my activity sucks, I'll try again tomorrow

[Pavowski]

DUCK do you think I'm scum because lurk or because other reasons?

Lurk is a reduction but not a bad reduction. I feel like you're really struggling to sink your teeth into this game and I think we're in a gamestate where its likely disproportionately difficult for scum to do so.

The first part is fair and probably accurate, but i don't see how that = scum

Like the game blew up from roughly 20 pages to 40ish in just a couple of (weekend!) days and the talk is leave Pav on the island so yeah, I'm struggling to find my way back into this game

I dunno I guess that's my fault as much as anything but

Anyway

[Pavowski]

Decent chance of the worst, greeting, bugs, Meuh

Gut is telling me there's one in the replacements but probably not two, and duck would check that box

it's weird because you said meuh is not one of them but now you are saying she is?

I don't recall saying I townread Meuh but I am sure you have receipts

[Pavowski]

what posts are you scumreading duckie for?

The scumread on the duck is not really the duck's fault

[Pavowski]

I'm not saying I dont understand why youre finding this game difficult. Just that I can see that you are. Where are your reads at rn?

Lightning round as I'm heading in to work

I agree with greetings self assessment and will have a hard time trusting there
Bugs is just weird and math is a red flag for me
Meuh I think tonally is fine but gut kinda screams watch out
You replaced into a tough slot and i think you're working hard against a tide that may or may not be fair to you, I don't love your Ydra trust and think Ydra is right to hold off on taking it... More below

The rest are varying degrees of townlean I'd probably trust without too much reservation
Chav I've spoken on and hardly need to at this point
Kuri feels solvey and even though I'm not happy about the way they locked into a scumread of me on page 4 and haven't let go, I think they're town
Ydra replaced into another slot I was scummy on but is helping the slot a lot and not for nothing is sitting on a trust they could just dip with, so there's that

Sorry posting from phone so this kinda looks like trash

[Pavowski]

I am seeing the wisdom in not trusting chav tho this morning so maybe I'll throw it at one of those in my not-so-sure list

Lunchtime feels like a good time to do that

[Pavowski]

maybe I'll throw it at one of those in my not-so-sure list

uh, why though

like why trust a not-so-sure when there are existing trust offers between those on your pretty sure list

To help sort?

I mean, we've all but confirmed you, and as a few people have pointed out today, trusting you does nothing to move things forward ... and feels exceedingly unlikely to be picked up besides, so ...

Somebody's got to make a call on somebody they're not sure about sooner or later, and if I'm going to guess wrong somewhere, I'd rather do it earlier than later

[Pavowski]

The longer this goes the more I get paranoid that TW's trust is designed to clear Ydra to get kuri to take that trust

Or tw is just scum after all

[Pavowski]

I haven't forgotten I said I'd trust somebody btw, the question is whether I want to follow chavs advice or if I actually want to sort

[Pavowski]

Been a while since I snagged one from you hyperposters, yeet

[Pavowski]

Trust: Meuh

This is me suppressing my gut

[Pavowski]

What the hell is even happening in this game right now

I almost spit sandwich on my phone

[Pavowski]

I thought things were going pretty peachy and then the replacements, god the replacements

You guys just rolled us, well done town

[Pavowski]

Didn't help that I was never active when most of the rest of you guys were. Just oof.

Thanks for modding Prism!

[Pavowski]

I felt like we were truly fooked even before the Meuh trusts ... it was a last ditch effort to do something to shake things up, but eh.

[Pavowski]

I was very excited to play this setup as town and my heart just kinda sank when I saw the red... But that's Mafia lol

[Pavowski]

Honestly relieved the game ended before I got home today, I have no idea what kind of bullshit I was gonna reach for after the morning

[Pavowski]

Scum could in theory have argued that this was me repping out because i got caught as scum and ragequit

Am I wrong or wouldn't this be a direct violation of the rules on discussing replacements?

I mean I said the thing about my scumread on the duck not really being the duck's fault and that was as close as I really wanted to get to saying this.

This is not me saying your replace-out broke the game for us Norwee, if you needed to rep out, you needed to rep out