Mini Normal 2268 Game Over

[GuiltyLion]

What do you think about the possibility scum!DkKoba bringing up traitor talk as a signal to traitor? I think using the hood talk with Dwlee having a weird reaction (or the fact of still being able to bring it up whatever their reaction) would be a good smoke cover for it.

I dunno, I don't have an idea how Koba would play being scum with a traitor in the set-up but it just feels like a really clumsy/obvious 'signal' to me, and IMO usually you would just sit back and look for the traitor to signal to you somehow?

Like if Koba is a traitor, then I would think they'd be confident enough in their ability to not get eliminated that they could steer the game and subtly signal to scum rather than immediately start talking about a traitor. And if Koba is a non-traitor scum, I think they'd know they should just be traitor-hunting secretly instead of again immediately just yolo bringing it up. So neither explanation feels especially compelling to me as to scum!agenda in bringing it up in the first place.

However, I think if NK15 is scum (either traitor or not), his play could be trying to either distance (if he is non-traitor scum and thinks Koba is a traitor) or possibly signal (if Koba is actually scum and NK15 is a traitor), OR if NK15 scum and Koba town, an attempt to push/scumread a townie who he thinks might be informed in some way. So in all worlds I'd rather yeet NK15 over Koba, and really only look at Koba as a possible scum if NK15 flips traitor. and even then there's still a bunch of day play stuff that makes me suspect NK15 and feel townpings from Koba

there's also the worlds where there's just no traitor in the set-up and NK15 thought it'd be a plausible fake reason to push on Koba. so basically just, a lot of roads lead to scum!NK15 whereas comparatively a lot fewer lead to scum!Koba, at least in terms of the traitor point specifically

[GuiltyLion]

why does this wagon even exist? has Meuh been scummy? #512 is townie imo

I think 512 isn't a hard post to fake as scum, what makes you think it's townie? Even there I don't like how she basically excuses herself from having to try to sort marci properly

my scumread on Meuh has less to do with the actual contents of her posts by and large and more to do with the fact that she feels divested from the game, like she pops in every now and then to comment on stuff but I don't have a great sense of who she scumreads and why and I feel there's a lot of interesting arguments/discussions/players-in-the-game that she just says nothing about

[humaneatingmonkey]

maybe

[GuiltyLion]

actually speaking of 512, did marci ever give a reply/thoughts on it? Cause rereading I noticed an inconsistency in what they're both saying about each other

In all of those games, she's been town and I think she usually just ... has alot more to say than she already has at this point. I feel like shes usually out there very townily towning it up and being sort of like a townblock creator. So I think its weird she hasn't done much yet, i'm not sure if shes scum but I wanna see whats up yknow? !!

This feels like marci is saying she usually sees Meuh as town, "townily towning it up", and even in this post/game marci doesn't say she scumreads Meuh rather it's more like an absence-of-towniness read

but Meuh says:

Marci scumreads me a lot and I scumread her a lot.
[...]
Town!Marci is fairly likely to get bad vibes from me in general

that doesn't fit with what marci said about how Meuh is usually "townily towning it up"?

marci/Meuh, what gives? which of you is wrong here?

[ShadowGirl]

there's also the worlds where there's just no traitor in the set-up and NK15 thought it'd be a plausible fake reason to push on Koba. so basically just, a lot of roads lead to scum!NK15 whereas comparatively a lot fewer lead to scum!Koba, at least in terms of the traitor point specifically

Aside from the potential of it being a signal or not, there's still the aspect of the general play itself; what do you think about just DkKoba's dynamic with Dwlee, which I have given my thoughts about in #733?

[marcistar]

marci/Meuh, what gives? which of you is wrong here?

none

[GuiltyLion]

Aside from the potential of it being a signal or not, there's still the aspect of the general play itself; what do you think about just DkKoba's dynamic with Dwlee, which I have given my thoughts about in #733?

I think you raise a good point about Koba's Dwlee read being a bit nebulous, but I'm also putting some stock into Dwlee's assessment of Koba in 642 as not feeling especially pocket-y.

overall I'd say these points are good ones to keep Koba out of 'firmly town locked' territory, but I don't see myself wanting to vote/eliminate them over these, especially on D1. If I knew with certainty that you are town and my POE was a bit narrower, I'd look more critically at Koba

[GuiltyLion]

Meuh just feels like scum to me. not all that engaged, surface level reads/analysis, 754 is a bizarre post like she's clearly sheeping tictac, why play the "I didn't say I agree with tictac!!" card in response to Koba's question??

what do you think about Meuh's response on why they sheeped tictac?

I didn't like that nearly all of her points were just general gamestate stuff rather than specifically things she didn't like about Chaos herself, other than this one:

-The point made about Chaos’s entrance seemed fair to me (even though it also applies to me )

this maybe kinda gives me ever so slight town ping for the unabashed self-awareness of it but it's not unfakeable as scum

[humaneatingmonkey]

GL did you think your wagon was all town

[GuiltyLion]

no, I'm thinking NK15 or Chaos as most likely scumspects on my wagon

[humaneatingmonkey]

what do you think about Roden and Meuh on their defense on you at E-1?

[GuiltyLion]

I think Roden's had a lot more conviction behind it than Meuh's

I think I said this previously but I can vibe with people being confused/alarmed by how strongly Roden reacted to that wagon on me, however with the knowledge that I am town, I do not think that he would ever react that way as scum. Meuh felt a bit more backseat in her defense and also was after Roden had already started defending me.

the timing is kinda funny with how quickly it was Roden->Meuh, but I do think Roden gets more bravery townpoints for being the first voice, even if it was only by a couple minutes

[humaneatingmonkey]

Do you think Roden's defense could have only come from town?

[DkKoba]

Aside from the potential of it being a signal or not, there's still the aspect of the general play itself; what do you think about just DkKoba's dynamic with Dwlee, which I have given my thoughts about in #733?

I think you raise a good point about Koba's Dwlee read being a bit nebulous, but I'm also putting some stock into Dwlee's assessment of Koba in 642 as not feeling especially pocket-y.

overall I'd say these points are good ones to keep Koba out of 'firmly town locked' territory, but I don't see myself wanting to vote/eliminate them over these, especially on D1. If I knew with certainty that you are town and my POE was a bit narrower, I'd look more critically at Koba

consider theres a whole dimension of play invisible to you

[DkKoba]

i feel like theres too many ppl that feel informed/scummy here which indicates a certain universe and it starts making things make sense - and if that isnt the case, i told dwlee to bury the relevant parties

[GuiltyLion]

Do you think Roden's defense could have only come from town?

Yep. I'd need to see a really compelling argument for why Roden does any of this as scum assuming I am town. I'm more sympathetic to a GL-Roden S/S belief than any T/S idea.

[DkKoba]

Its only T/T in 1 specific world

[DkKoba]

Just like IV and House were only T/T in a very specific world in my last mini normal.

(This is a crumb that is impossible to discern for now that ive explained to dwlee)

[Gamma Emerald]

i feel like theres too many ppl that feel informed/scummy here which indicates a certain universe and it starts making things make sense - and if that isnt the case, i told dwlee to bury the relevant parties

>:/
You’ll understand me being skeptical about this, right?

[ShadowGirl]

Yep. I'd need to see a really compelling argument for why Roden does any of this as scum assuming I am town. I'm more sympathetic to a GL-Roden S/S belief than any T/S idea.

View from your perspective?
1) If you got eliminated at that point (since you know you're town and he as scum knows you're town), he as scum stays off the wagon and keeps his hands clean + appeared as a detractor to an "easy" vote = getting him a leaning toward town read.
2) If you don't get eliminated today (and at some future point you get flipped town, again, because you know you're town), he still appears a detractor to the "easy" D1 vote + in the mean time until that point he earns good will from you & you now find him obvtown without a doubt for having saved you = getting him a leaning toward town read.

[Roden]

why do you scumread dwlee gamma

I haven't seen anything to go against the point that they reacted poorly to Koba's traitor claim

Is this the only reason you scum read Dwlee? Nothing else?

[Gamma Emerald]

bad faith question

[Not Known 15]

i feel like theres too many ppl that feel informed/scummy here which indicates a certain universe and it starts making things make sense - and if that isnt the case, i told dwlee to bury the relevant parties

You know that it is pretty obvious what you are saying?
It could also be true, I am currently stuck with too many scumreads.
VOTE: Marci

[Not Known 15]

Hmmm actually... what do you all think about a massclaim?

[Gamma Emerald]

fuck no. We're not massclaiming D1 in a normal game.