Mini Normal 2267 | Music Hits of 2010-2014 | GAME OVER

[angela]

it’s frame or town roleblocker which seems unlikely

It isn't a frame. Because it wouldn't frame.
Town roleblocker does seem unlikely, do you see why I think it was a bus.

Or at least if you try to pretend to be in my state of mind where I think it's not a frame, ignoring that you disagree, do you see why I think it's too awkward and that a bus attempt is likely. If not by you, than someone else but I think personally you are much more likely than others.

no i do not see as it would not make any sense based on play

How so

because everything i’ve done has been openly in service of town and sure i’ve played terribly here and i ruined day one but it doesn’t feel like there is anything i have done that you think is actually mafia indicative rather that you just want to plant the thought in people’s minds

[JacksonVirgo]

I think you're too close minded to peer into an opposing perspective regarding requesting you to look into my own perspective, especially when it's against yourself, which is fine I guess it's not easy.

i think it would be more likely my inability to do so rather than ‘close-mindedness’

as i am me and if i could be not me i would happily

hence the lyric quoted in my signature

Close-minded as I define it is probably not as you would define, I just define it as the inability to warp your mind into situations you are not nor even could be in. If you can warp your mind to actually be in the mind of someone that had an experience you cannot have even thought of etc.

Close-mindedness is almost a certain in everyone, if not certain. Just to a different degree than other's. What I said particular is that your particular part of close-mindedness seems to be to put yourself into a pure opposing perspective against yourself. That's all, not attempting to attack you as a person or anything.

[angela]

1. only this would not have been strategic it would have been anti-win condition
2. no it doesn’t? like scorpious would need to remain alive for scorpious’s skill level to be beneficial to us i don’t get it
3. because they were already under pressure as you just said and because pooky had talked about the possibility of an ascetic and conveniently died in the night

1. It is most definitely not game-throwing, it would prop you into a higher position in the Town. Sacrificing a partner is not inherently game-throwing, nor is it even remotely when you consider the reason it would have happened if you are in fact scum here, which again I am not even willing to vote today I literally only just mentioned it.

2. Skill has almost nothing to do with it, you just replied to my additional addition of your earlier response not the main point.

3. It wouldn't have framed. Ascetic isn't a scum-particular role for starters, plus it wouldn't even have a chance of having you flip before them. It would have been much more beneficial to have a successful action N1 followed by the frame if they wanted to, which still very likely would not even work. I do not believe it to a frame, where you do. That's fine, I just disagree with you and my read on you is in association with that read.

1. i would not have done it here and think it would have been extremely negative expected value for me to have done so in this situation i do not know how else to say that

2. it once again feels like you are trying to ‘win’ our conversation not actually sort me or anything

3. right but why does your read ignore everything else?

[JacksonVirgo]

it’s frame or town roleblocker which seems unlikely

It isn't a frame. Because it wouldn't frame.
Town roleblocker does seem unlikely, do you see why I think it was a bus.

Or at least if you try to pretend to be in my state of mind where I think it's not a frame, ignoring that you disagree, do you see why I think it's too awkward and that a bus attempt is likely. If not by you, than someone else but I think personally you are much more likely than others.

no i do not see as it would not make any sense based on play

How so

because everything i’ve done has been openly in service of town and sure i’ve played terribly here and i ruined day one but it doesn’t feel like there is anything i have done that you think is actually mafia indicative rather that you just want to plant the thought in people’s minds

You claim that, but good scum also do that just in a way that also benefits themselves. Which a bus would also mean, getting scum killed is pro-town but also will get a bussing town to be raised high which is pro-scum.

Pro-Town and Pro-Scum can both occur by the same action.

If you are Town, I don't think you've played terribly, I just have a different perspective than most it seems. If anything it's me playing terribly, assuming you are real. You got scum dead, I fail to see how that's a failure.

[JacksonVirgo]

1. only this would not have been strategic it would have been anti-win condition
2. no it doesn’t? like scorpious would need to remain alive for scorpious’s skill level to be beneficial to us i don’t get it
3. because they were already under pressure as you just said and because pooky had talked about the possibility of an ascetic and conveniently died in the night

1. It is most definitely not game-throwing, it would prop you into a higher position in the Town. Sacrificing a partner is not inherently game-throwing, nor is it even remotely when you consider the reason it would have happened if you are in fact scum here, which again I am not even willing to vote today I literally only just mentioned it.

2. Skill has almost nothing to do with it, you just replied to my additional addition of your earlier response not the main point.

3. It wouldn't have framed. Ascetic isn't a scum-particular role for starters, plus it wouldn't even have a chance of having you flip before them. It would have been much more beneficial to have a successful action N1 followed by the frame if they wanted to, which still very likely would not even work. I do not believe it to a frame, where you do. That's fine, I just disagree with you and my read on you is in association with that read.

1. i would not have done it here and think it would have been extremely negative expected value for me to have done so in this situation i do not know how else to say that

2. it once again feels like you are trying to ‘win’ our conversation not actually sort me or anything

3. right but why does your read ignore everything else?

1. Whether or not you would have done it here has no real bearing as you'd say the same thing as scum. This is a fair response I wont really add anything onto this.

2. I get like that, people tend to hate me for that aha :p

3. What is my read ignoring

[JacksonVirgo]

I would also like to add that it is not you specifically singled out by my logic, I just think you to be the most likely.

[JacksonVirgo]

I would also like to add that it is not you specifically singled out by my logic, I just think you to be the most likely if this were the case and it was an agenda

[angela]

it’s frame or town roleblocker which seems unlikely

It isn't a frame. Because it wouldn't frame.
Town roleblocker does seem unlikely, do you see why I think it was a bus.

Or at least if you try to pretend to be in my state of mind where I think it's not a frame, ignoring that you disagree, do you see why I think it's too awkward and that a bus attempt is likely. If not by you, than someone else but I think personally you are much more likely than others.

no i do not see as it would not make any sense based on play

How so

because everything i’ve done has been openly in service of town and sure i’ve played terribly here and i ruined day one but it doesn’t feel like there is anything i have done that you think is actually mafia indicative rather that you just want to plant the thought in people’s minds

You claim that, but good scum also do that just in a way that also benefits themselves. Which a bus would also mean, getting scum killed is pro-town but also will get a bussing town to be raised high which is pro-scum.

Pro-Town and Pro-Scum can both occur by the same action.

If you are Town, I don't think you've played terribly, I just have a different perspective than most it seems. If anything it's me playing terribly, assuming you are real. You got scum dead, I fail to see how that's a failure.

i had a good read day one and failed to eliminate scorpious then despite thinking they were most likely mafia and instead i steered the ship off a cliff into a miselimination

and if we had extra elimination here game would feel likely solved

thus yes i played terribly despite having a good read

[angela]

1. only this would not have been strategic it would have been anti-win condition
2. no it doesn’t? like scorpious would need to remain alive for scorpious’s skill level to be beneficial to us i don’t get it
3. because they were already under pressure as you just said and because pooky had talked about the possibility of an ascetic and conveniently died in the night

1. It is most definitely not game-throwing, it would prop you into a higher position in the Town. Sacrificing a partner is not inherently game-throwing, nor is it even remotely when you consider the reason it would have happened if you are in fact scum here, which again I am not even willing to vote today I literally only just mentioned it.

2. Skill has almost nothing to do with it, you just replied to my additional addition of your earlier response not the main point.

3. It wouldn't have framed. Ascetic isn't a scum-particular role for starters, plus it wouldn't even have a chance of having you flip before them. It would have been much more beneficial to have a successful action N1 followed by the frame if they wanted to, which still very likely would not even work. I do not believe it to a frame, where you do. That's fine, I just disagree with you and my read on you is in association with that read.

1. i would not have done it here and think it would have been extremely negative expected value for me to have done so in this situation i do not know how else to say that

2. it once again feels like you are trying to ‘win’ our conversation not actually sort me or anything

3. right but why does your read ignore everything else?

1. Whether or not you would have done it here has no real bearing as you'd say the same thing as scum. This is a fair response I wont really add anything onto this.

2. I get like that, people tend to hate me for that aha :p

3. What is my read ignoring

3. my play mostly and the possibility that it was a frame as your reasoning for it not to be seems not really based in this game like it seems like it’s not accounting for the information we have here to me

[JacksonVirgo]

3. my play mostly and the possibility that it was a frame as your reasoning for it not to be seems not really based in this game like it seems like it’s not accounting for the information we have here to me

I acknowledge the possibility of a frame, but I do not think it's likely as I personally think it'd be too foolish to have been done as a frame. For what it's worth, I think you are Town now from your statement about me wanting to "win" this which I don't see coming from scum.

What I still think is that they did not have no action for a specific reason and that isn't for a frame. I will look into the situation surrounding them failing to check you to see interactions with this fresh in my headspace.

[Greeting]

Votecount 3.1

Alicia Keys - Girl on Fire

(2012)

Commentary: I've heard a parody of this song before the actual song. The parody was so cringey, I'd rather die than share it. No, I'm not being overly dramatic.

MalcolmTucker

(1):

Save The Dragons

Save The Dragons

(1):

Andresvmb

Not Voting

(8):

geraintm

,

Enchant

,

Rathe

,

Andante

,

angela

,

Nero Cain

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to eliminate.

Day 3

ends in: (expired on 2022-04-14 17:40:00)

ended early.

[JacksonVirgo]

Spoiler:

why would you think you were blocked

because I sent you that message smh..

Are there any scum role what would prevent them from getting a message with no interference?

Well, again. My message explicitly said that me hammering was an accident. Which makes me feel like I was blocked.

That’s my current conflict. Town Angela most undoubtedly has a comment on my message the minute D2 starts.

There are only two options here. She is lying, possible, or she never got it, which means I was blocked..

Neither though explain the blind acceptance of Kitty’s “case” on me .. and in turn the acceptance of town Kitty.

I don’t see anything from Kitty that screams town, unless Again, could be a TMI case

Either the role is accurate, or they’ve engaged in the dumbest fake claim ever. I don’t necessarily think Scorpious is the best player in the game. But do you really think they boxed themselves into a situation where they had to send a message and didn’t have the capability to do so? That just seems way too dumb.

you know they could just be trying to frame me, the recipient, right?

C’mon this is absurd. They frame you, you flip Town, they get executed next most likely. They do not set it up that way in advance. Which is what you’re arguing. They had to claim mailman under pressure in D1. Like this is clearly not a strategy to win the game. Where’s your skepticism?

they have already bought an extra day from the claim due to my brain worms

why would you think mafia trying to buy a second extra day

would not be beneficial to the mafia?

Sigh. Scum don’t buy extra days in this way c’mon. There’s absolutely no guarantee at all that mailman as a claim buys you any additional time, because it’s so useless as a role in a vacuum. I have never seen it employed as a fake claim to save a Scum. It’s a useless role the vast majority of the time.

He once claimed bulletproof cop. I wouldn't put it past him to make bizarre claims.

Besides, angela has little reason to lie about a mailman message if she is scum either! Because she will just get killed the next day is Scorp is town. And angela is way more townie to me than Scorp. I'm parked on Scorp still.

VOTE: Kitty

You are not scum hunting an any way. You're cases on me is ahem: My reaction to your over reaction and a calim I made in a past game. And you have specifically stated you have no plans to hunt any further..

Who's my team then?

let's expand ourselves a little,enough of this TMI crap.

These, to me, conclude that

1. Ascetic was likely not in the eyes of Scorpious when they did this.
2. That they didn't in particular want you dead, as they switched to Kitty fairly easily so it wasn't to frame.

I do have to say, from someone that is scum read every game, and rarely has anything really listened to.

I don’t know how to feel that Andres and Malcom are agreeing with me so freely.. I’m not used to it..

This post in particular I found in their ISO, makes me give andres/malcom +town points. I don't think scum!them would throw them into the dirt like this. At the very least, not together.

[Andresvmb]

also kinda think a partial massclaim amongst

jacksonvirgo, malcolmtucker, andresvmb, nero cain and save the dragons

might make sense here

I have you as Town and all that for sure, but for the record, I’m not claiming, and I don’t think I should be in your POE. I’m kind of surprised you actually have me amongst the remaining names to be honest.

[geraintm]

I’m happy with an execution amongst {Save The Dragons, JacksonVirgo} today. I think MalcolmTucker could also be Scum.

I’m never voting geraintm, angela, or Rathe. Nero Cain is probably fine, and I’m not going to push Enchant today either. If I’m wrong, I’ll re-evaluate tomorrow maybe. But I don’t see why we would do anything else quite frankly.

Aw, i like some of your reads. I agree Angela is very, very likely town, if this was all a plan between them after the Kitty message then they deserve the win for the acting. I'm not as sold on Rathe as you. I think i am going to put you in the town pile too with Angela, i like you

VOTE: malcolmtucker

? you are going to need to explain this. Right now between you pushing me yesterday and the swerve off you Day1 i have you pretty close to the top of my suspicious list

Probably i should be pissed if you really can take me vigging Friendly Neibor as truth.

so you are retracting your claim? Wish you hadnt, we just dont need confusion, it doesnt help us

i don't understand set ups to understand a traitor/mailman discussion. i am going to stay well away from it

Apologies to Geraint for my continual suspicion - pretty much confirmed town at this point I'd say.

i am expecting to die tonight.

the angela/jackson chat....just going to wait until tomorrow to see what all that is about.

[Andresvmb]

I saw game with two traitors, it was for certain NOT weak.

Traitor is generally 0.5 mafia. It's *usually* added where adding another scum is too strong, yet omitting it is too weak. So I don't think it's "weakening" the mafia by any means if it exists

Didn’t the game with 2 traitors have 4 total Scum? Isn’t that the game that was lost in 3 consecutive mis-executions? That game was also passed as Normal with the higher number of Scum because 2 of them were Traitors, and the Town were informed about the unusual number of Scum. What I argued was that assuming 3 Scum here, since we know the Town had a Friendly Neighbor, and one of the Scum PRs is a mailman only, I would be surprised if there was a Traitor as it probably makes the Scum too weak and the game unbalanced in favor of the Town. And how does it help the Scum to be able to send messages via a mailman to a potential Traitor anyway? Unless the Traitor is also a Mailman? But then why have that mechanic? Outside of maybe making it harder to coordinate during the day, the whole idea for there being a Traitor is that the main Scum don’t know who else is in their Team and they have to be on the lookout. If they can only send messages in one direction, then if they’re wrong, they could out themselves, and if they can communicate with a Traitor who is also a Mailman, then what’s the point? You might as well make them all main Scum and avoid the gimmick.

[shiki]

also kinda think a partial massclaim amongst

jacksonvirgo, malcolmtucker, andresvmb, nero cain and save the dragons

might make sense here

I have you as Town and all that for sure, but for the record, I’m not claiming, and I don’t think I should be in your POE. I’m kind of surprised you actually have me amongst the remaining names to be honest.

hm, i guess i kinda feel like claim does more potential good towards solidifying poe than it could cause potential harm here

your angle at some points early in day two felt kinda off and potentially partnery to me as i said at the time and then turn towards town reading scorpious and such as day went on

[angela]

also kinda think a partial massclaim amongst

jacksonvirgo, malcolmtucker, andresvmb, nero cain and save the dragons

might make sense here

I have you as Town and all that for sure, but for the record, I’m not claiming, and I don’t think I should be in your POE. I’m kind of surprised you actually have me amongst the remaining names to be honest.

hm, i guess i kinda feel like claim does more potential good towards solidifying poe than it could cause potential harm here

your angle at some points early in day two felt kinda off and potentially partnery to me as i said at the time and then turn towards town reading scorpious and such as day went on

sigh sorry it me

[Andresvmb]

also kinda think a partial massclaim amongst

jacksonvirgo, malcolmtucker, andresvmb, nero cain and save the dragons

might make sense here

I have you as Town and all that for sure, but for the record, I’m not claiming, and I don’t think I should be in your POE. I’m kind of surprised you actually have me amongst the remaining names to be honest.

hm, i guess i kinda feel like claim does more potential good towards solidifying poe than it could cause potential harm here

your angle at some points early in day two felt kinda off and potentially partnery to me as i said at the time and then turn towards town reading scorpious and such as day went on

Yeah but then you’re ignoring my D1 completely and that doesn’t make sense to me. I was Scorpious’ main focus, and I was aggressive in my pursuit and landed back there almost towards the end of the day when I was trying to avoid a Not_Mafia execution. If you think them harping about my Town % was staged, you could make that argument, but I certainly am not going to let you just paper over all of that by looking at my D2 only.

[Andresvmb]

Like if you want to argue against JacksonVirgo by saying that your push against Scorpious was negative EV and you wouldn’t do that as Scum (and I agree), certainly you should apply some of that same logic to me then. Because it’s not like I was defending Scorpious early in the day and I did come out pretty strongly against them even before they returned the favor.

[Andresvmb]

^in D1.

[angela]

Yeah but then you’re ignoring my D1 completely and that doesn’t make sense to me. I was Scorpious’ main focus, and I was aggressive in my pursuit and landed back there almost towards the end of the day when I was trying to avoid a Not_Mafia execution. If you think them harping about my Town % was staged, you could make that argument, but I certainly am not going to let you just paper over all of that by looking at my D2 only.

i am not ignoring it is just that there is heavy weight on the otherside, it's not that i think you are most likely remaining mafia right now or anything, probably 5th or 6th most likely,

and kittytacky also suspected you and am giving weight to their considerations as well

[angela]

Like if you want to argue against JacksonVirgo by saying that your push against Scorpious was negative EV and you wouldn’t do that as Scum (and I agree), certainly you should apply some of that same logic to me then. Because it’s not like I was defending Scorpious early in the day and I did come out pretty strongly against them even before they returned the favor.

right but then you swerved away from it and also like i said the interactions at beginning of day two felt plus partner to me,

i do definitely need to reread once again and see how i feel, but there have been things i noted regarding your slot

[Andresvmb]

Yeah but then you’re ignoring my D1 completely and that doesn’t make sense to me. I was Scorpious’ main focus, and I was aggressive in my pursuit and landed back there almost towards the end of the day when I was trying to avoid a Not_Mafia execution. If you think them harping about my Town % was staged, you could make that argument, but I certainly am not going to let you just paper over all of that by looking at my D2 only.

i am not ignoring it is just that there is heavy weight on the otherside, it's not that i think you are most likely remaining mafia right now or anything, probably 5th or 6th most likely,

and kittytacky also suspected you and am giving weight to their considerations as well

KittyTacky said that JV should be executed if Scorpious flips Scum. That was their main consideration if I’m reading some of the posts at the end of D2 correctly. I also think STD looks quite poor after D1 and how all of that went down (Scorpious being the main focus, and the Scum needing an alternative, momentum was there to execute STD and it didn’t happen, which means that we need to think about that).

[angela]

probably 5th or 6th most likely,

hm, well, idk actually trying to order the further down ones feels very difficult to me

[angela]

KittyTacky said that JV should be executed if Scorpious flips Scum. That was their main consideration if I’m reading some of the posts at the end of D2 correctly. I also think STD looks quite poor after D1 and how all of that went down (Scorpious being the main focus, and the Scum needing an alternative, momentum was there to execute STD and it didn’t happen, which means that we need to think about that).

i mean, i currently think jacksonvirgo is one of the very most likely mafias, and save the dragons was also on that list along with you, and have been thinking about this though maybe not aloud as of yet as i wanted to look back through save the dragon posts and see, though they are sparse enough where it is like, trying to connect things very difficult and i guess i would like save the dragons to come through here and just put a lot of words to how they are viewing the game right now and such