Mini 2270: Spring Fling!

[fireisredsir]

i still think removing pairs through voting is ideal when possible

[Dunnstral]

UGH

Hey dunn you wanna leave lmfao

Not currently planning on leaving, vote us if you think Datisi is mafia

[Ginngie]

Post was more for shits than anything tbh

I'm up for voting Datisi.


Oh btw I know it's a PT post but another case for Andante!town is they literally celebrated Ceph voting for our pair as if that was a scumclaim.

I think Andante would join us on a Datisi flip but she currently townreads him due to his recent posting.

I think Myko showed interest but when I brought this up they swerved out of that conversation when it came down to brass tacks

Spoiler: Convo with Myko

there's 4 pairs left and 2 scum. there must be at least 2 pairs that are fully town. i think there's a lot of reasons why scum might not want to shoot their own partners (if they aren't paired together). the question is, why would scum choose not to shoot in one of the fully town pairs?

the two possible reasons i can think of:
- those pairs are likely to get elimmed
- among those players, there's too much risk that whoever gets left behind will ask to pair with someone who is paired with scum

the second possibility imo points to datisi or maybe myko as scum. dunn is the most townread player and likely would leave datisi if given the chance. bell is also pretty townread and i think might leave myko depending on who asks?

I think the first one doesn't work.

Unless I'm doing the math wrong, they gave us an extra full elim (instead of just a new pair forming) right? So if they had something lined up, they could just shoot into the other pair. My first guess would've been the second, yes. But it's very wifom.


I am happy to be convinced about Dat scum.

I don't think it's Bell. I think if you bus mala you do it for points, and I could see her push on you as distancing, but that seems like effort from a lurking position. Odds are, you are on the right side too. Bell for one assures me that you always play that way. I think Andante is quite clearly being buddied by mala and I don't see that as a scum scum interaction, nor really the post that was quoted with Prism. I also think Andante started the game playing their town meta, they just really aren't with it now. I'd say Dunn is pretty town in general anyway.

That leaves three players. Datisi who I don't really know all that much about after all, Cephrir who I liked how they talked, except for when Bell suggested he'd pair with you, Fire, and we saw a bit of AtE thrown around.

admittedly the Mala interaction with Prism is weak and I have my worries about Ginngie at times.

Ya know, myko, we could come to an agreement, we both think Datisi is scum. There has to be at least one town in Datisi, Myko, and Ginngie.

So, really, even if we both suspect each other, we also share the ability to vote Datisi. Sure we could argue from each other's POV that it was a bus, but at the end of the day, mafia is eliminated regardless.

IDK if I'm making it clear, but like, from your POV, if I'm scum and Datisi scum, I'm simply bussing. From my POV, if Datisi scum and you're scum, you're simply bussing.

At the end of the day anyone can claim that you and I are bussing, but in both scenarios datisi is scum. So it's like, hey for this phase let scum bus scum if that's your opinion.

we could also wait for Cephrir to vote first and say that's bussing.

So what I'm gathering is that everyone is town except for Datisi, fire, Ginngie. I bring up actually voting Datisi and then you get the last post where he dodged committing to any actions by making a post in jest. I think calling out the bussing left the only option to deflect and let the conversation die by not feeding it; or else they would actually have to go through with the bussing.

Dunn I can see joining the voting

Fire/Ginn/Bell/Ceph/(Maybe:Dunn)/(Maybe:Andante)

I mean 4 out of 7 scumread Datisi for sure and you got two maybes

Dunn with this:

At the start of my neighborhood after the end of day 1 I say that I want to vote Andante, Enchant, and Malakittens.

Datisi says they also suspect Andante and ask about my read Enchant.

I think Dunn can peace together Datisi pushed two town here in order to avoid Mala interactions

So lets go 5 out of 7 think datisi is scum

Andante, well this read has been flipping back and forth but using the law of Schrodinger's scown-read, while I believe they currently stated Datisi is a townread, the read is also a scumread and can be convinced to join.

So lets go 6 out of 7 think Datisi is scum

Finally Myko, who has showed interest in Datisi being scum with what I just found here:

You, PoE (same) and I'm inclined to believe Dunns scumread on you.

So that's 7 out of 7 players thinking Datisi is scum

I literally dont see town coming to a stronger collective agreement on a players slot than what we have on Datisi.

VOTE: Datisi

[Dunnstral]

I don't see post 2447 as calling Datisi scum, but rather believing that I have a real read

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Datisi

[Ginngie]

Fire join the wagon homie

only need a couple more

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

VoteCount 2.2

Ginngie - Andante [0] -
Cephrir - FireisRedSir [1] - Andante
Dunnstral - Datisi [3] - Bell, Ginngie, Cephrir
Bell - Mykonian[0] -

Not Voting [4]

- Fireisredsir, Dunnstral, Datisi, Mykonian

With 8 alive it takes 5 votes to execute

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2022-05-02 15:00:00)

[Datisi]

it kinda sucks that this is happening at the day i have classes the whole day and can't sit here and argue to infinity, but

it's ginnie and cephrir.

like, look at the way they're playing around each other. ginnie was voting his pair, then made a post how everyone thinks i'm scum (because that is a point in favour of me being scum, apparently?) and swapped votes. ceph voted their pair when it was seeming like they're likely to flip, but kept subtly aligning towards voting me even though he did not get to that conclusion independently when he thought about it, like when he was thinking about the night actions

and now, as soon as there are any votes on me, he swaps over and claims to be pairing me/andante together because us scumreading each other for the whole game and then andante townreading me because i said "what the fuck is happening" is ???????????

oh, and ginnie's "i will leave im x time" is bullshit. like they're telling me "scum wouldn't leave" well NO SHIT scum wouldn't leave, that's why your acting about "yes guys i will totally leave but also my pair is t/t but also yes i will definitely levae" is fale as fuck. town doesn't think like that. if you think your pair is t/t but your flip is +town for the gamestate, fucking leave or see who votes you. if you think it's t/t and don't want to flip, you don't write that shit out. like it's performative as fuck because it was obvious they were never going to actually leave

VOTE: ginnie

might check in here and there today but like i am over this game so whatever

[fireisredsir]

we have 5 days to deadline, im not in a rush to vote unless someone starts getting antsy to leave

datisi, why do you think a ginnie and ceph team would no-kill?

[Cephrir]

*subtly aligns with the moon, mercury and voting datisi*

i dont remember giving a reason for my vote that had anything to do with your interactions with andante but it sounds like maybe you really worked on crafting them so im sorry for not noticing

[Datisi]

datisi, why do you think a ginnie and ceph team would no-kill?

i have not once successfully analysed night actions and i don't plan on starting now, but

if i'm right on the two more evenly townread pairs being t/s, then it also kind of makes sense. because killing within them, like killing andante or fire, is relatively risky because there's always that small chance that whoever they propose to doesn't accept them, which would be Bad

and if they kill in dunn/bell, then yeah it's probably likely that me/myko die, which like, if that flips town then it immediately makes the town reconsider. but also with andante being as labile as she is, there's always a chance that she yolo-accepts one of us and lol. while if they don't kill, then yeah the game does get potentially longer for a few irl days, but they're not worse off

because like, if they have two scummy/townie t/t pairs in the game, shooting within them can be a risk because separating such a pair is inherently going to shake the gamestate up

[Datisi]

*subtly aligns with the moon, mercury and voting datisi*

i dont remember giving a reason for my vote that had anything to do with your interactions with andante but it sounds like maybe you really worked on crafting them so im sorry for not noticing

my point is moreso that there was no consideration for what was being said. is it possible to genuinely scumread me/andante as a pair, sure, maybe. but the fact that you just went "yeah lol they can be scum together" without seemingly giving any thought on whether it actually made sense because it fit your narrative at the moment is

yeah not a good look

[Datisi]

like i have had some scumgames where i did do some wacky ass theater with buddies so i would not be offended if someone came to the conclusion that me/andante can be theater, but it requires more thought that "lol ye sure"

[Dunnstral]

I really do hate the me feeling townie post idk why but if I had to make a choice i'd have bell switch with mala.

Spoiler: My first 4 posts of the game

Sup Dunnstral is town so lets go from there

seeing deadline extended reads like we dont have much time to chat but i gotta finish some pretty big obligations like literally rn so I'll chat when thats over

If you scumread my slot talk to me; not meta, but quite simply mafia have a hard time having real time conversations and will talk at or about players, but usually not TO or with a player. So, it kills two birds with one stone as you can further sort the new slot and honestly if I'm a scumread, best thing to do is grill the replacement IMO. Also, it'll help me form my own reads because I personally love seeing if peoples reads are genuine on me.

intro post with RVS, and posting mafia theory, RVS only possible alignment indicator

Is dance equivalent to the game?

I'm reading player will leave the dance

does that equate to a player will be voted out?

Like if I was voted out does that mean I've left the dance?

This is just asking for clarification of the set up, nothing alignment indictive

Okay I think I got it

Firebringer couldn't find a partner so they were (voted out) removed from the dance

Left an even amount of players so now mafia eliminates one person creating the lone person.

The phase we are in now, that lone player may basically try to convince someone to switch partners so their partner is eliminated instead of them.

Each phase so far only one person gets eliminated. Then the next phase two people are gonna be eliminated.

If I have time I'll try and read about 10-15 pages a day till im caught up. I think I've grasped how this works.

Again, just set up spec, nothing alignment indictive.

So from what I can gather

Scum eliminated Bells partner

My gut reaction is that bell is town here because of if scum, we'll be able to see the theatre of scum having to dump their partner and trade for bell to become a SvS pair.

I dont see a scum player risking themselves like that on day 1 if I'm honest. I love this set up already.

Alrighty enough speculation imma go read some shit

This is more set up spec, only thing alignment indictive is maybe forming a townread on Bell; however again it's set up spec and I'd actually see that more as scummy than townie focusing on mechanics instead of a players reads. Easier to logic a read than explain why you feel a certain way.

Overall I don't get why I should feel townie when my analysis of myself I'd say is more of a scummy start.

So Mala, if you could help elaborate on your thought process there, it would help me feel more comfortable about you.

I overall had a decently good feeling about Prism.

As for the setup spec; Id think if you were scum you wouldn't be so open about the spec in the thread unless you have partners that are mia or just as confused

idk its a gut feeling ++ the read i had on prism

I overall had a decently good feeling about Prism.

We'll have to take you at your word for this, because this is not reflected in your iso.

Spoiler: Here is where Prism appears in your iso during the first phase

I had dinner and just ate some cookies and cream icecream.

Am I scum yet.
Andante is a her.

newbiescumtellbrooo

I know im playing with fire but me asking ydrasse to dance vs prism asking andante.
one is extremely scummy and the equivalent of "anyone want to dance?"
but the other is like apparently so towny that the dance is happening.

how does that make sense

Well, first, I'm not the player that weighed in on your proposal to Ydrasse. Andante was. Maybe she's a better fit to answer. It's also unclear if this is a critique of me proposing, of Andante accepting, or both, because asking about Ydrasse is fundamentally different than asking "anyone" and you treat them as equivalent anyway.

Second, Andante posted that because she's like the energizer bunny or the smiling dog in her picture, eager for more posts and to run around and grab the stick and bring it back and have someone throw it again so she can grab it again and shake head to play with stick pretend it is squirrel oh no they take stick and they can throw it and where stick go there stick must move legs fast and....

Fundamentally I think that enthusiastic pro-activity is a bit +town for her. That's a read rooted in meta. While I didn't comment on it before, I think your Ydrasse reaction is null at best. Just rote pursuit of early/pregame pocket target is plausible.

I agree w/ this assessment.

Andante's play so far reminds me of a puppy biting at my shoe while my leg is still attached because I got in their way. But I'm actually okay with that. They don't have to listen. I just won't talk to or address them unless I think it particularly relevant.
I dunno what Andante scum looks like. They've appeared townie since I've known them. This game isn't much of an exception.

Strangely, I actually agree with Ydra so far, but both Fire and Luke are the types of players I like, so I'm looking forward to seeing them play and maybe changing my mind.

so I have played with scum andante twice and this feels like town andante. Scum Andante has a tone-difference in her posts.

town andante has a huge chance of being pocketed so I want to wait out this read before solidily calling her town

i feel townpings on malakittens for possibly dumb reasons, we'll see

why's that??

maybe

dunnstral/mala
lukewarm/Datisi
cephir/fireisred

luke+ceph swap works too

So, I haven't yet had a great read on Dunn. I have played with Dunn in the past and been wrong too many times. So i'm leaning on ppl who have more exp in reading him.

im also open to that. i wanted myko left out most but now with who is remaining i want ceph and dun >>>>> luke and noraa to stay.

and im cool with taking some consensus into account if it comes down to luke/noraa cause i don't exactly have a strong scumread on either of them

I mean i wanted you to be left out bc i think youre scum, but hey we all cant get what we want

dunn will flip scum 9/10 times here

You were right about Dunn in Control so if anything i'll be more wanting to trust your read over aNYones elses when it comes to dunn

someone once told me dunnstral powers up in dance games

so in hindsight this makes dunn's posting NAI as if he powers up in dance game regardless of alignment, which in the future is gonna throw off any meta type tells

fml

I think that Dunn should be left behind

propose to Mala

I don't currently trust Prism, which leaves me disinclined to let her do the sorting of the pairs.

Thinking selfishly, I think pairing with Dats knowing that I am his top scum read just kills me day 2, and I think proposing to fire results in fire getting hammer between me and Cephrir, and I am left behind today. So, survival thinking says Mala is my best bet.

Noted & ooof going to think on this last few lines of this.

Any bets on how long it takes Malakittens to notice her pairing got rejected for formatting?

I got the message from the mod
so i'm aware it was rejected for not being bolded.

i also checked the op so i know i have a decision to make between noraa and luke

i just need to catch up

Here is the only place you have ever given a read on Prism:

First I’m hearing you think prism isn’t town.

I have a lot of thoughts, and the fact ydra was killed over prism was a bit sus to me cause I thought prism looked very towny and is someone I'd fearkill... not sure why this is a hard thought to believe?

What. IMO prism was not the player I townread the most during D1. As I had two others who i felt were townier than Prism. You, actually, being one of them.

Which is during day 3, and in fact is a stance you just conjured up out of thin air today.

What do you think of this?

[Dunnstral]

Hmmmmm.

I am being swayed on my dunn scum read. Not ready to call him town, but he is making me question if he is my top choice to go anymore

I am vaguely against Bell proposing to myko, because I want to kill myko and enchant tomorrow.

I am not liking gins or andantes posting this phase.

Also, don't like Mala's response to dunn questioning her prism read. Like, she isn't saying that it's a new read, she feels like she is trying to back date it with old posts, but I saw her reads list in our pt, and prism was not a town read .

Maybe I am no longer opposed to Bell dancing with me?

Mafia is hard.

And this

[Datisi]

i'm not sure what about that is supposed to change my mind

like, generally. scum shows tmi. scum is super aware of their partners. it is very easy for me to imagine scum!ginnie seeing their partner give a read that they realised doesn't track because they're obviously aware what their partners are doing, and then call mala out on it because, again, they're afraid someone is gonna notice when it's not as easily that obvious to others than it is to ginnie

also mala has every incentive to switch over to a townread of that slot if ginnie is their partner, so

and it's not like ginnie was pushing super hard for mala to gwt left behind, especially when i'm guessing there were other ideas being thrown around (cbf to go back to check rn)

not sure what i'm supposed to think about luke's post? ye, he was town, he got to a right read of mala. the fact that he got to it because ginnie mentioned it is funny but it does not make me change my mind

[Datisi]

like, compare mala getting to a townread of ginnie -- bullshitting something about liking their entry or liking the previous owner of the slot -- with andante townreading me by saying "datisi ask what is going on so datisi town!!" and tell me which one looks more like a scum reverting a read of their buddy

[Datisi]

like i know i'm making a logical fallacy by implying it's one or the other but my point is that i don't think at all that that read is clearing for mala/ginnie being s/s

[Datisi]

also skimming back through their iso and early voting phase, ginnie comes around to a townread of mala (???), starts pushing luke, but also keeps egging on the me/andante fight while saying i'm chainsawing for luke WHILE i am plainly getting more votes than luke is

[Dunnstral]

it is very easy for me to imagine scum!ginnie seeing their partner give a read that they realised doesn't track because they're obviously aware what their partners are doing,

Even though they had just replaced in?

Regarding Lukewarm, I meant that they pointed out that the read on the Prism slot was not true inside their neighborhood

I was wondering whether the entire interaction between the two made Ginngie less or more likely to be mafia

The one who pointed out the discrepancy in the reads was me and then Lukewarm, with Ginngie more focused on tone I think with posts like 1574, but bringing my post back up with 1576

[Cephrir]

datisi, why do you think a ginnie and ceph team would no-kill?

i have not once successfully analysed night actions and i don't plan on starting now, but

if i'm right on the two more evenly townread pairs being t/s, then it also kind of makes sense. because killing within them, like killing andante or fire, is relatively risky because there's always that small chance that whoever they propose to doesn't accept them, which would be Bad

and if they kill in dunn/bell, then yeah it's probably likely that me/myko die, which like, if that flips town then it immediately makes the town reconsider. but also with andante being as labile as she is, there's always a chance that she yolo-accepts one of us and lol. while if they don't kill, then yeah the game does get potentially longer for a few irl days, but they're not worse off

because like, if they have two scummy/townie t/t pairs in the game, shooting within them can be a risk because separating such a pair is inherently going to shake the gamestate up

i get that you have a pov but why can't the prevailing logic be right to you/why is mykonian not of concern to you at all

[Cephrir]

*subtly aligns with the moon, mercury and voting datisi*

i dont remember giving a reason for my vote that had anything to do with your interactions with andante but it sounds like maybe you really worked on crafting them so im sorry for not noticing

my point is moreso that there was no consideration for what was being said. is it possible to genuinely scumread me/andante as a pair, sure, maybe. but the fact that you just went "yeah lol they can be scum together" without seemingly giving any thought on whether it actually made sense because it fit your narrative at the moment is

yeah not a good look

i don't really do preflip associatives and i'm not gonna start just because you feel like it!

[Dunnstral]

Why should mykonian be of concern?

[Cephrir]

bc that's an explanation for the lack of kill... was kinda thinking that one consideration for him might be that that train of thought was right and it was the other culprit

it's kind of a bad point i guess

[Dunnstral]

How does a no kill protect Mykonian? Bell has shown no special interest in getting rid of Mykonian. In contrast, they have shown an interest in getting rid of Datisi, so killing me should be pretty safe for Mykonian. That point is moot if Datisi is scum, I guess, but it still means that Mykonian is not in any particular danger.